The Rumour Thread

[zilberfrid]

3 minutes ago, NazbitWeirdstabba said:

I wonder if the Bugman teaser references some kind of anniversary model like we've seen with the White Dwarf

Bugman also to 40k?

[AccendantEvincar]

13 hours ago, Kronos said:

It’s not too far removed an idea. After all Dark Elf Blood was first used to create Nagash, the Undead literally stem from that Race, it wouldn’t be entirely odd for the depraved Dark Elves of Ulgu to be Vampiric in nature.

Maybe they require Blood to sustain their Ethereal Souls, or something fantasy and spooky which makes some more sense. 

I’ve been toying with the idea of Be’lakor being entwined with both the sundering and then bringing Dark Elves to Nagash to use their Blood to create the Undead. Although for my own fan-lore sake I’ve made Be’lakor be the cause of both of these events, but I can’t take away the Importance that Dark Elf Blood is connected with the Undead. 

As far as i recall nagash didnt use dark elf blood to make the undead...he forced a trio of dark elf magic users to teach him how to use the winds of magic (something he really struggled with at first) he blended the rituals of the mortuary cult and dark magic to create necromancy. He did distill his immortality elixir from.blood but it wasnt blood of the elves. Techincally speaking high elves and dark elves are the same race, just one group supported malekiths claim to the phoenix throne and one didnt. They have the same blood lol

[Kronos]

On 5/16/2020 at 8:12 AM, AccendantEvincar said:

As far as i recall nagash didnt use dark elf blood to make the undead...he forced a trio of dark elf magic users to teach him how to use the winds of magic (something he really struggled with at first) he blended the rituals of the mortuary cult and dark magic to create necromancy. He did distill his immortality elixir from.blood but it wasnt blood of the elves. Techincally speaking high elves and dark elves are the same race, just one group supported malekiths claim to the phoenix throne and one didnt. They have the same blood lol

You’re right, I confused the human blood aspect of both Elixir’s and mixed It up. Shame, now I would have preferred their was corrupted elf blood lending to the immortality of Nagash and the Vampires’ Elixir of Damnation. 
 

On the Dark Elves being same, after some time of blood sacrifices, carnal acts, extensive torturing and enslaving  And communing with daemons and evil spirits and foul sorcerery, surely something about their genealogy or biology must be altered and become a separate from the purity of the High Elves.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Kronos

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

4 hours ago, Kronos said:

On the Dark Elves being same, after some time of blood sacrifices, carnal acts, extensive torturing and enslaving  And communing with daemons and evil spirits and foul sorcerery, surely something about their genealogy or biology must be altered and become a separate from the purity of the High Elves.

None of those things have anything to do with biology or genes (especially "purity").

[Kronos]

2 hours ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

None of those things have anything to do with biology or genes (especially "purity").

We agree to disagree then. I can’t see Dark Elves as being untouched and pure but also drawing their powers from Chaos. At least in the Old world, in the Mortal Realms we can see a clear physiological  difference Because of the taint of Slaanesh.  I can’t imagine that the Dark Elves are just High Elves that behave differently and sided with Malekith/Morathi. Their difference is also a corruption of mind, body and soul. 

 

“The Dark Elves, not so unlike their High Elven brethren, possess a cold if not glamorous beauty which only helps to hide the corruption and vileness which lurks beneath their skin. All Elves are beautiful, but such beauty is different between the three peoples.

The beauty of the Asur is one of light and glamour whilst the beauty of the Asrai is feral and wild. Yet the beauty of the Dark Elves is a cold beauty, being said to take a man's breath away, both figuratively and literally.“

“For the Dark Elves, however, Chaos has brought enlightenment -- the knowledge that the world exists only for the pleasure of the strong. They have embraced this revelation with a burning passion that shames the cold hearts of their ancient cousins. Indeed, it may yet set the very world afire.“

“Chaos has left its mark upon the Elves, just as it has on almost all the races of the world. In this race, however, the power of the Dark Gods has taken a subtle form. It has fanned the arrogance of the Elven soul, reinforcing all that is prideful and hubristic.”

“Long ago, compassion could have been said to be the Elves' defining trait, for such was the nature granted them by the Old Ones, but now generosity has been eclipsed by narcissism, empathy by conceit. However, Chaos has not changed all the Elves in equal manner.”

Warhammer Dark Elves 8th Edition. 
 

In short, I do think milennia of corruption has changed the Druchii enough to no longer be considered the same as Asur.

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Kronos

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

5 minutes ago, Kronos said:

We agree to disagree then. I can’t see Dark Elves as being untouched and pure but also drawing their powers from Chaos. At least in the Old world, in the Mortal Realms we can see a clear physiological  difference Because of the taint of Slaanesh.  I can’t imagine that the Dark Elves are just High Elves that behave differently and sided with Malekith/Morathi. Their difference is also a corruption of mind, body and soul. 

 

“The Dark Elves, not so unlike their High Elven brethren, possess a cold if not glamorous beauty which only helps to hide the corruption and vileness which lurks beneath their skin. All Elves are beautiful, but such beauty is different between the three peoples.

The beauty of the Asur is one of light and glamour whilst the beauty of the Asrai is feral and wild. Yet the beauty of the Dark Elves is a cold beauty, being said to take a man's breath away, both figuratively and literally.“

“For the Dark Elves, however, Chaos has brought enlightenment -- the knowledge that the world exists only for the pleasure of the strong. They have embraced this revelation with a burning passion that shames the cold hearts of their ancient cousins. Indeed, it may yet set the very world afire.“

“Chaos has left its mark upon the Elves, just as it has on almost all the races of the world. In this race, however, the power of the Dark Gods has taken a subtle form. It has fanned the arrogance of the Elven soul, reinforcing all that is prideful and hubristic.[1c]

Long ago, compassion could have been said to be the Elves' defining trait, for such was the nature granted them by the Old Ones, but now generosity has been eclipsed by narcissism, empathy by conceit. However, Chaos has not changed all the Elves in equal manner.”

Warhammer Dark Elves 8th Edition. 
 

In short, I do think milennia of corruption has changed the Druchii enough to no longer be considered the same as Asur.

 

 

 

I don't disagree that Dark Elves and High Elves are distinct culturally or spiritually. I disagree that they are distinct genetically, and I emphatically oppose any linking of morality and genetics.

[Neverchosen]

I think that the topic of genetics in a fantasy realm is a surprisingly slippery slope. What can be stated is that the warping effects of Chaos have seemingly taken a toll on the majority of Aelves after their ingestion by Slaanesh. 

As for whether or not the effects of chaos' mutations impacts genes is up for debate, but also not one grounded in real world science. 

[EccentricCircle]

9 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

I think that the topic of genetics in a fantasy realm is a surprisingly slippery slope. What can be stated is that the warping effects of Chaos have seemingly taken a toll on the majority of Aelves after their ingestion by Slaanesh. 

As for whether or not the effects of chaos' mutations impacts genes is up for debate, but also not one grounded in real world science. 

Its worth noting that the warping effects of Chaos have always been explicitly called mutation, which by definition implies that they affect the subject genetically. 

[Incineroar87]

Isn’t there a direct link to the Aelf souls being tortured in a sense after being swallowed by Slaanesh and the mutation when the Aelf souls were used by their respective gods / goddesses to create new life. There def seems to be something to that especially with what we know of DOK and IDK where as for the Lumineth their lore talks about the psychological impacts with them shuddering and not being as bright or something.

[Overread]

Chaos Corruption is a very variable thing. Furthermore DNA isn't all that affects your body in the world of fantasy. 

 

First consider that magic can reshape you from the bones upward. This magical change might well re-write your genetic code to make those changes, but doesn't mean that that genetic data is passed onto your offspring. You might be changed or mutated, but your offspring could be normal

At the same time your genetics might be perfect, but your soul might be damaged or otherwise not perfect and thus it will influence your body. We see this with the Aelves saved from Slaanesh. Whilst the Aelf Gods (and one demigod) reshape new bodies for them at the physical and genetic level; their souls are damaged and this influences their new bodies in a way that the gods can't reverse so easily. 

 

The Idoneth bleed out their souls and lose them and are born without; having to drink the souls of others to restore themselves. Morathi herself has a twisted snake and winged body which carries its taint into the new creations she weaves from her souls and Malarion is much the same, though we get the feeling his body is part his chioce in how he formed himself. 

 

 

 

Chaos corruption doesn't follow neat rules of science. Furthermore how much you believe in chaos and how connected you are to it will affect how much its powers and mutations and changes affect you. For example, jumping to 40K for a second, there was a plague war between Tyranids and Nurgle believes. The Shadow in the Warp that Tyranids generate that pushes the influence of the Chaos Gods out meant that the Nurgle plagues lost much of their unnatural potency. 

The same is seen with chaos warped bodies; areas of high chaos infection and influence will spawn additional mutations and changes even when the chaos taint and belief of the person is the same.

 

 

DNA, Souls, the body, reproduction, belief, the lands around them, chaos taint. There's a lot that can influence the living body in the Mortal Realms. 

[Neverchosen]

6 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

Its worth noting that the warping effects of Chaos have always been explicitly called mutation, which by definition implies that they affect the subject genetically. 

Although you are correct that there is an implicit link between mutation and genetic alteration, the term mutation itself etymologically linked to the notion of change.  As @Overread posits, Chaos has little to do with real world science and more closely resembles other fantasy tropes such as magic. Games Workshop often portrays mutation affecting non-genetic aspects of a person such as their personality or souls. The impact of mutants in pop culture seem to have a greater bearing on GW's narrative and aesthetic depictions of mutation than any sort of real world scientific explanations. It is possible that 40K is more explicit with how the effects of the Warp alter genetic code as it is more fitting for the tropes and schemes of a science fiction setting. The term mutation is clearly a notion that is easily problematized, and rightfully so as it contains real world implications. But, I feel that it is discussion that warrants its own thread.

Now to tie this back to rumours, this is something I touched on in the thread before but it seems fitting in light of this recent discussion. With the chaos iconography that the giants have plundered, who expects to be able to build giants with iconography linked entirely to specific alliances, and what chance is there that they will include mutation options like with the Aleguzzler? I feel like some death options would be nice but the the right paint scheme could easily zombify the giants. I have a sinking feeling that I will need to learn how to use greenstuff soon.

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Neverchosen

[KingBrodd]

15 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

Although you are correct that there is an implicit link between mutation and genetic alteration, the term mutation itself etymologically linked to the notion of change.  As @Overread posits, Chaos has little to do with real world science and more closely resembles other fantasy tropes such as magic. Games Workshop often portrays mutation affecting non-genetic aspects of a person such as their personality or souls. The impact of mutants in pop culture seem to have a greater bearing on GW's narrative and aesthetic depictions of mutation than any sort of real world scientific explanations. It is possible that 40K is more explicit with how the effects of the Warp alter genetic code as it is more fitting for the tropes and schemes of a science fiction setting. The term mutation is clearly a notion that is easily problematized, and rightfully so as it contains real world implications. But, I feel that it is discussion that warrants its own thread.

Now to tie this back to rumours, this is something I touched on in the thread before but it seems fitting in light of this recent discussion. With the chaos iconography that the giants have plundered, who expects to be able to build giants with iconography linked entirely to specific alliances, and what chance is there that they will include mutation options like with the Aleguzzler? I feel like some death options would be nice but the the right paint scheme could easily zombify the giants. I have a sinking feeling that I will need to learn how to use greenstuff soon.

 

I think that with the Khorne symbol on the Warstomper for example, is that its moulded on and it is just a part of the model.

I also believe on the topic of Mutations that the Mega Gargants will not come with any. I wouldnt be suprised for GW to do what they did with the Imperial Knights in 40K and release an entire Chaos Mega Gargant in a year or so time.

[Neverchosen]

Just now, KingBrodd said:

I think that with the Khorne symbol on the Warstomper for example, is that its moulded on and it is just a part of the model.

I also believe on the topic of Mutations that the Mega Gargants will not come with any. I wouldnt be suprised for GW to do what they did with the Imperial Knights in 40K and release an entire Chaos Mega Gargant in a year or so time.

You broke my heart in one sentence, and repaired it in the next 😊

[Raviv]

It's confirmed, preview this Saturday for 40K only.

[Neverchosen]

@Raviv Darn I was hoping for more news for AOS and I am dreading the new Necron news. I can't afford a new army but I love  the aesthetics of Necrons and I am likely to fall prey to whatever rumoured box is coming. 

Does anyone imagine a similar AOS news day sometime in the near future?

Edited May 17, 2020 by Neverchosen

[GeneralZero]

2 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

I also believe on the topic of Mutations that the Mega Gargants will not come with any. I wouldnt be suprised for GW to do what they did with the Imperial Knights in 40K and release an entire Chaos Mega Gargant in a year or so time.

I'm not really counting on it (even if I expect it 😉 ) but I just did 2 daemon princes and 4 spanws: so many bits to chaossizing the upcoming gargants!!   Those are the best  kits to get many chaos little pieces to kitbash anything and make it chaos looking.

[Overread]

In fairness AoS has had the lions share of previews thus far somewhat with two brand new armies in the waiting. Even if there's more AoS news to come its fair for 40K to get a little look in. 

 

Necron stuff is almost certain - I'm crossing claws for some Tyranids but not really holding much hope sadly (in fairness Tyranids are generally ina really good spot model wise; they just need a few more updates here and there not an all out bulking out)

[GeneralZero]

2 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

I can't afford a new army but I love  the aesthetics of Necrons and I am likely to fall prey to whatever rumoured box is coming. 

The V9 40K starting box set  is rumored to be SM vs Necron. Buy 2 (even 3!)  ressell the SM and the books and even the goodies: you'll have almost a necron army ready for super cheap.

[KingBrodd]

43 minutes ago, Overread said:

In fairness AoS has had the lions share of previews thus far somewhat with two brand new armies in the waiting. Even if there's more AoS news to come its fair for 40K to get a little look in. 

 

Necron stuff is almost certain - I'm crossing claws for some Tyranids but not really holding much hope sadly (in fairness Tyranids are generally ina really good spot model wise; they just need a few more updates here and there not an all out bulking out)

I would absolutely love if they Updated some Nids. I dont play 40K anymore but they were my army. I'd love to see models such as Old One Eye and the Red Terror get updated looks.

I agree on AOS getting most of the Online Previews to date, a new Chaos Warcry Warband and an Order one as well as Two brand new Armies Previewed is huge. I doubt we'll see anything for mainline AOS for a while untill these 2 have been out a fair few months.

[Twisted Firaun]

1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

Darn I was hoping for more news for AOS and I am dreading the new Necron news. I can't afford a new army but I love  the aesthetics of Necrons and I am likely to fall prey to whatever rumoured box is coming. 

Same, they're the closest thing we have to Tomb Kings nowadays, and that Cryptek model they released about a year back was amazing! I'm kinda angry I converted most of mine into Tomb Kings(not really but you know).

[Coyote]

It’s starting to get closer, any ideas or *any* speculations on new 2020 Generals Handbook and points updates?

My Skaven are eager for points decreases lol.

[silverstu]

3 hours ago, Overread said:

In fairness AoS has had the lions share of previews thus far somewhat with two brand new armies in the waiting. Even if there's more AoS news to come its fair for 40K to get a little look in. 

 

Necron stuff is almost certain - I'm crossing claws for some Tyranids but not really holding much hope sadly (in fairness Tyranids are generally ina really good spot model wise; they just need a few more updates here and there not an all out bulking out)

If they have anything more for AoS they will probably leave it for a later reveal- could see some Warcry news at least but I'd think they would need get caught up a little releasing some of what they have shown already.

 

Would love some fresh Nid stuff- I'll not hold my breath but I get the feeling that this next 40k edition is going to be more Xenos focused rather than chaos.. iIt would be nice if they gave us a little taste of what the future of 40k will bring, not just a new starter set, a bit like when they trailed the Psychic awakening books..

[Overread]

Honestly I think that GW has woken up a bit that Xenos are important and that an all imperial focus can be detrimental to the games health. Plus AoS is showing that even with a "golden boy stormcast" faction; the focus on other factions in terms of model releases, but also side content like books (BL has basically no restrictions on factions) really boosts the setting in a massive way.

 

When you consider that 40K, for all its 30 years perhaps only has a handful of books that are about, say Eldar or Orks as the protagonists/key characters - compared to the legions of books on Marines and Imperials - it shows that there's a stark contrast. 

 

I'd love to see Xenos get some additional love. See Kroot and Eldar Aspect Warriors updated etc...... 

[Neverchosen]

I am very curious if Horus Heresy has anything to do with Space Marine dominance? I remember seeing them as very popular when I was young, but now it seems like it is impossible to be in this Hobby without at least collecting a small incidental army of space marines.

I am liking the role of Stormcast within Cities of Sigmar. I hope they follow suit in a potential Devoted of Sigmar army. I feel that it makes them feel special like Sigmar sent giant avatars of justice to protect the common folk. I think that using Stormcast and Space Marines sparingly makes the feel more powerful and unique. 

[Kyriakin]

5 hours ago, TheR00zle said:

Same, they're the closest thing we have to Tomb Kings nowadays, and that Cryptek model they released about a year back was amazing! I'm kinda angry I converted most of mine into Tomb Kings(not really but you know).

Did you see Midwinter Minis' "Sandstone Necrons" video on Youtube?

Edited May 18, 2020 by Kyriakin