The Rumour Thread

[Baron Klatz]

Just now, FFJump said:

They're flesh and blood lizards now that live in the realms and are using those shrines to spread their influence and convert the lands into Lustria-like jungles. Looks like they've updated the rules to reflect the new lore. His Bravery is also 8 now. They've removed the -1 Rend ignoring for improving the save to 3+ too, and his Command Ability gives +1 to hit for Saurus units.

Half-way, the article says they're still made of the stars and are celestial voyagers plus all the warscroll weapons are still celestial so likely they just combined Seraphon, Daemon and Celestial keywords all into just "Seraphon" since they didn't really have an effect before anyway and took up un-needed space.

Likely they'll be split between sub-factions of the star explorer  Seraphon and the "Coalesced" they teased last time. The former being the star daemons made to kill chaos even upon death and the latter the Seraphon that go native and gain flesh and blood to inhabit the realms while mingling with the mortals and cities.

Very excited to see the new lore and how the Seraphon are preparing both their star constellations & ground forces for all the troubles ahead in the Soul Wars.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Baron Klatz

[Aelfric]

9 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Very excited to see the new lore and how the Seraphon are preparing both their star constellations & ground forces for all the troubles ahead in the Soul Wars.

I want to know if the Celestial Seraphon have souls, and, if so, how.  If they do not, do the Coalesced gain souls and will a new Underworld be created to receive them.  I am also looking forward to the new lore.

[Sleboda]

2 hours ago, Gothmaug said:

The  gloomspite box isn’t that hot of a deal. Troggoths 60, squig here 45 and loonboss 30. $135 worth of models for about $100. So the starter basically gets you a free loonboss. 

Oh no! How dare GW only give you some free stuff and not more!

/s

[Sance]

I didn't have much fun painting my start collecting FEC box, I think i'd like to paint hot snake lady more than ghouls (they have the best lore but not fan of the models).

I really consider taking a DoK box , but i'll wait to see more of the Lumineth to make a choice.

And what if GW makes a full vampire army with new models...

I hate this hobby ! Too much choice and I want everything

[Baron Klatz]

Just now, Aelfric said:

I want to know if the Celestial Seraphon have souls, and, if so, how.  If they do not, do the Coalesced gain souls and will a new Underworld be created to receive them.  I am also looking forward to the new lore.

I'd love them to go into that! Especially after how tragic the new Flesh-Eater Court tome showed their afterlife was (before the Necroquake they had a underworld manifested from their madness actually delivered on their delusions and turned them into spirits of nobility in a afterlife of grandeur, but then Nagash was able to access it and punished them for not being loyal by removing the haven).

Getting more insight to their afterlife, if they have starlight souls or need to evolve them and how they fit in Shyish, Nagash's view(like if he just sees them as neutral or do they need Shyish Seraphon natives to maintain a special underworld to avoid him?)and even the Soul Wars would be grand.

[Ivo]

So chances of seraphon dice are 0? 😢

[TheMuphinMan]

1 hour ago, Sance said:

(they have the best lore but not fan of the models).

I don't think the models are bad but they do not do the lore justice.

[Neverchosen]

I really like all the start collecting boxes particularly the new Skink box. My cousin is just getting into AOS with his old lizardmen and this is such great timing. 

[Gothmaug]

3 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Oh no! How dare GW only give you some free stuff and not more!

/s

It’s not the cost, it’s the perceived value when compared to the utility of the models in the box. I’m just trying to understand their business model. A “Start collecting” box seems to be marketed at one of two things, either a good start towards a small warband, or an army builder box people will buy multiples of.  For maximum profit, I figured GW would add in a unit that people want multiples of, instead of the loonboss. Or even one with better synergy to the other units in the box, perhaps a loonboss riding  squig? Or a caster of some type. This box seems more haphazard. 

[SleeperAgent]

I plan on just getting 3 SC, Slann, and Engine (assuming rules are similar) and that's 1970 points.

(Edit: building the terradons as ripperdactyls)

Edited March 2, 2020 by SleeperAgent

[novakai]

47 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

It’s not the cost, it’s the perceived value when compared to the utility of the models in the box. I’m just trying to understand their business model. A “Start collecting” box seems to be marketed at one of two things, either a good start towards a small warband, or an army builder box people will buy multiples of.  For maximum profit, I figured GW would add in a unit that people want multiples of, instead of the loonboss. Or even one with better synergy to the other units in the box, perhaps a loonboss riding  squig? Or a caster of some type. This box seems more haphazard. 

the GW thought process is probably Cool new shiny models in one box would probably sell for it self.

it work for the battleforce since it got temporary sold out in the UK for a few day before coming back in stock.

is it the best starting point for Gitz, No. but I don't thinkthat the biggest stickler to many people

Edit: pretty much this reason

Edited March 2, 2020 by novakai
Info

[Sleboda]

38 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

It’s not the cost, it’s the perceived value when compared to the utility of the models in the box. I’m just trying to understand their business model. A “Start collecting” box seems to be marketed at one of two things, either a good start towards a small warband, or an army builder box people will buy multiples of.  For maximum profit, I figured GW would add in a unit that people want multiples of, instead of the loonboss. Or even one with better synergy to the other units in the box, perhaps a loonboss riding  squig? Or a caster of some type. This box seems more haphazard. 

Interesting.

While I understand that some folks buy multiples of them, I really don't see that as the primary goal. I think it's more the first bit. 

 

You buy one of these to ... start collecting.

 

You then add other stuff. From that perspective, including a hero you can use to start your collection makes all the sense in the world. In fact, I would think GW would deliberately ensure people don't want to get multiples of a set that comes at a discount. Give new collectors a bit of a freebie to start in order to encourage a new collection, but then sell the rest of the army at full value.

Just giving a player a 30% (or whatever) discount off a full army makes pretty much zero sense to me, in terms of business/profits/shareholder value.

I think a one-time purchase Start Collecting (SC) at 25% off that leads to full price purchases on the other $500+ makes perfect sense.

 

I guess I'm saying that those of us looking for full-army discounts via several SC boxes may not be the target for these, and our complaints that GW is not giving us all the free stuff we want may fall on deaf ears. 😉

[silentdeathz]

10 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Interesting.

While I understand that some folks buy multiples of them, I really don't see that as the primary goal. I think it's more the first bit. 

 

You buy one of these to ... start collecting.

 

You then add other stuff. From that perspective, including a hero you can use to start your collection makes all the sense in the world. In fact, I would think GW would deliberately ensure people don't want to get multiples of a set that comes at a discount. Give new collectors a bit of a freebie to start in order to encourage a new collection, but then sell the rest of the army at full value.

Just giving a player a 30% (or whatever) discount off a full army makes pretty much zero sense to me, in terms of business/profits/shareholder value.

I think a one-time purchase Start Collecting (SC) at 25% off that leads to full price purchases on the other $500+ makes perfect sense.

 

I guess I'm saying that those of us looking for full-army discounts via several SC boxes may not be the target for these, and our complaints that GW is not giving us all the free stuff we want may fall on deaf ears. 😉

Seems like a bit of a misnomer to be calling them "free" or "freebies" really.  They aren't "free" as if GW is doing you a big favour to their own detriment, they are just boxes with slightly lower profit margins for GW.

That may not even be the case either, as the form factor of the boxes and the higher purchase price to shelf/container space etc may actually mitigate the lower face profit vs individual sales etc. 

On top of that, the boxes often seem to throw in units that are often not that great / optimal in actual game terms and would likely not be recommended / bought as a first set if people were buying these boxes individually.

So you could say it's not much of a deal at all if taking that perspective, which seems just as valid as calling them "free" models.

Quote

Just giving a player a 30% (or whatever) discount off a full army makes pretty much zero sense to me, in terms of business/profits/shareholder value.

If you want your army so only consist of those units sold in the SC. But if the bundle was called "saver bundle" or "battleforce" I feel like most peoples opinion on "should only be buying one"  would change.  Also, it's not a simple thing to say that its bad for profit to allow people to collect armies more cheaply, since it's not easy to account for the benefits of further saturation / increased sales volume etc.  People getting armies cheaper doesn't inherently mean less profit.

 

Quote

our complaints that GW is not giving us all the free stuff we want may fall on deaf ears. 

Feels a little bit like I see you chip in to be antagonistic toward people instead of actually engaging with them regarding their views. You replied again here and expanded a bit on what you were thinking but your first post was literally 

Quote

Oh no! How dare GW only give you some free stuff and not more!

/s

Which is not only worthless but essentially inflammatory if you ask me.

 

Anyhow, this is the rumour thread and this is probably just going way off topic...

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by silentdeathz

[skeen77]

Ah hah! I knew that was a death world plant!

[Gecktron]

Price lists for the Start Collecting boxes: 

Skinks 80€

Gloomspite Gits 80€

Daughters of Khaine 70€

[Chikout]

18 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

Price lists for the Start Collecting boxes: 

Skinks 80€

Gloomspite Gits 80€

Daughters of Khaine 70€

About 20% discount for the gits, 30% for the DoK and almost 40% for the Seraphon. Using current points you can make a legal 2000 point army using 2 of the old start collecting box and 2 of the new ones. 

I am very curious to see how the new rules shape up. The new Seraphon start collecting is a very tempting proposition. 

[JPjr]

I guess it’s unprecedented but I really, really hope the vast amount of noise I’m seeing urging GW to make that Catachan model more widely available pays off. It’s just so good, far too good to be almost impossible to get for most people. Dumb exclusives! 

Anyway super tempted by the Gloomspite SC. not that I need more Squigs, I think this box would bring me up to about 70 of the buggers which means I could have 7 units of 10 each in a different 🌈 colour... plus I fancied getting some rock boys at some point and don’t have that loonboss, ah sod it, I’m sold might as well add it to the unbuilt pile of shame...

 

 

[Overread]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1710575492567307/?ref=bookmarks

The loot sharing group on FB - ideal place to find people going to opening events and willing to pick up exclusive models/content from the event and post it on with either no profit or very little. Ergo no scalping/price gouging. Well worth joining and keeping an eye on for a lot of exclusive stuff from store openings to birthdays to warhammmer world exclusive stuff. 

[Matrindur]

1 hour ago, Gecktron said:

Price lists for the Start Collecting boxes: 

Skinks 80€

Gloomspite Gits 80€

Daughters of Khaine 70€

if those prices are true Gloomspite Gitz would have one of the worst savings with £20 only exceeded by demons of slaanesh with £18.5

Edited March 2, 2020 by Matrindur

[sorokyl]

24 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

if those prices are true Gloomspite Gitz would have one of the worst savings with £20 only exceeded by demons of slaanesh with £18.5

Wouldn't be super suprising from the perspective that it is all new models. (All kits from 2019) while the seraphon box has models that are 20 years old.

But on the flip side, it's the least amount of plastic sprues too.

Discount off retail is certainly not the only consideration. For each army there are only certain units that are really up for considering, any they may not add up to a certain %.  .  

[Matrindur]

4 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

Wouldn't be super suprising from the perspective that it is all new models. (All kits from 2019) while the seraphon box has models that are 20 years old.

But on the flip side, it's the least amount of plastic sprues too.

Discount off retail is certainly not the only consideration. For each army there are only certain units that are really up for considering, any they may not add up to a certain %.  .  

Sure if there where no other models that would be fine but GsG have many other models new and old all in plastic and the 3 inside don't even have any real synergy together so I really don't know what they thought

[Ogregut]

30 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

Sure if there where no other models that would be fine but GsG have many other models new and old all in plastic and the 3 inside don't even have any real synergy together so I really don't know what they thought

A box of cool models at a discounted price. 

This box gives you a hero and 2 units, you're set to play.

Don't forget not everyone plays match play, not to mention not everyone plays, some just paint.

I love the box, put a further 20% discount when buying from independents and you get the squigs for free. 

[JPjr]

17 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

Sure if there where no other models that would be fine but GsG have many other models new and old all in plastic and the 3 inside don't even have any real synergy together so I really don't know what they thought

Personally I can see how they came to the decision of what goes into this box reasonably easily.

Let's imagine we're assembling a GSG Start Collecting Box.

OK, first things first let's say we want it to just include models that were part of the new release last year, after all those are what we're most proud of and show off the range to best effect.

Right that done let's remove from consideration any 'Unique' models, so if people buy more than 1 box they can still use everything in it. Sensible right? Ok so that get's rid off...

Skragrott The Loonking
Mollog's Mob
Zarbag's Gitz

Ok, I'll take a liberty here as they're not unique as such but pretty close and so we can bin the...

Gobbapalooza

Next up models that are new but probably too big/expensive for a SC box (sure you get similar sized models in some sets but I'd argue they're mainly old models not ones from the past year or so), so that gets rid off...

Mangler Squigs w or w/o Loonboss
Dankhold Troggoth/Troggbos

Right, so we will need a Hero model in this set, but we've already got rid of most of them leaving us just three options, the Loonboss, the Fungoid Cave Shaman or the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig. The guy on the squig literally only got released last week as a standalone miniature so let's rule him out straight away.

I guess you could make a good case for either of the other two but the Loonboss both feels more generic (useful for multiple box buying) and of course his big banana head is on the cover of the battletome. He's literally the poster grot for the faction so he just gets the nod here...

Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig
Fungoid Cave Shaman
Loonboss

Right we need some battleline in this box, Squig Hoppers are conditional battleline whereas  Squig Herd are always battleline, so it makes sense to include them, also you get lots of hoppers/bounders in the Battleforce set, which is still available, in the new Warcry set, and in the Looncurse set so Squig Herd seems to be the obvious choice.

Squig Hoppers  / Boingrot Bounders
Squig Herd

Finally we need one remaining unit to fill up the box, I'd argue that Fanatics and Sneaky Snufflers could be considered too niche, as it were, wouldn't make for a particularly eye catching addition and they respectively feature in the Battleforce and Warcry sets. That would also make it a solely Grot box which doesn't really represent the diversity of the faction.

So that just leaves Rockgut Trogoths, which have the advantage of being conditional battleline, showcasing the full (new) range and they're also nice big sized models so you feel like you're getting something chunky for your money  to throw down on the table...

Fanatics
Sneaky Snufflers
Rockgut Trogoths 

So there you have it, thanks to me having an article that I need to have written by this afternoon that I really can't face doing until the last minute I have scientifically proven why the contents of this box is as it is. As for a lack of synergy, personally I think outside of people that like to fetishise spreadsheets that doesn't hugely matter to most people and almost certainly not Gloomspite Gitz players/collectors!

[Overread]

I think the idea of mixing squigs and trolls is a good one because it also encourages people getting started to consider both "halves" of the army rather than one niche. If it were all trolls or all squigs then the "other side" would complain. By putting both in it encourages more people to not just focus on one half, but to consider both (and combined full armies of course). 

It's a smart move and many SC sets are built more for the beginner and collector than the meta-gamer. Accepting that the "meta" can shift around a lot. Heck sometimes just someone winning a high profile event with a "non standard" list can suddenly make the meta jump huge swings to a new standard for a specific army.

[Scurvydog]

Most importantly the new SC boxes are rather fun in my opinion. DoK needed an easy place to get all their heroes, a SC box to get the altar/shrine kit which contains both hag heroes, medusa hero, avatar of khaine etc along with the less played melusai is a good move. The Altar kit is good value for points in game in itself and encouraging people to move away from the WE spam meta is all good.

The Gitz box is just cool and fun, it does not really do much in itself, but bridges some gaps and makes it easy to make a fun list around, just get some grots and you got a varied fun list with fun and cool models, while not exactly meta perhaps.

The skink box is good as well, I got enough bastis myself to not need it, but you get a monster, flying dinos, a wizard and some battleline, pretty good. It puzzles me it is called start collecting Skinks, how many SC do we have naming a type of unit in an army specifically? Maybe it is simply because we already have Seraphon SC, which might as well be called Saurus then, but still it seems a bit strange to distinguish it like that, especially looking at the before mentioned Gitz box happily mixing troggoths and squigs and grots. I guess the closest comparison is stormcasts with their SC vanguard, but that at least makes a bit more sense, just throwing the skink keyword out there has no real presedence I think.