Jump to content

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

I have always thought that Iron-Jawz needed a warmachine option or at least a chariot, as I believe even rudimentary technology would help give them a distinctive identity from bonesplitterz. The chariot option would be especially nice if you could put a hero on it.

... idk I am pro-new units because it’s healthy for army building yet gameplay-wise I am against a „Trollol look at my chariot, my chariot is amazing: For 100 points and a Warchanter buff I get a dmg potential of 44...“-Situation. 

Edited by JackStreicher
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 68.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Overread

    2638

  • KingBrodd

    1737

  • novakai

    1239

  • michu

    1100

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I've been working on a spreadsheet for warscrolls, what kit makes them, and the material/age of the kit to try and figure out what armies need updating the most and heres a rough overview of what ive

Am I the only one mad the OBR are getting regular archers? GW had the opportunity to create a unit called Crossbonemen and they didn't take it.

So they edited that article huh

Posted Images

44 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Isn't that what killed WHFB in the first place? They quit updating armies and everyone already had everything so they just stopped buying anything and then the game died? 

It was one of several contributing factors yes. Lets not forget we have seen some updated models for AoS. Gloompsite got a massive update last year; Slaanesh got a much needed demons update; Khorne got some more plastic doggies etc... So we are getting updates along the way too. It's just a sign of how long Old World was left that we have so much in need of an update in AoS; not helped by fragmenting several armies. Daughters of Khaine are small because its the elite back-end of the old Dark Elves full range - for example. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Overread said:

Small updates to a wide range of armies which sparks renewed interest in each army on its own is far more effective than just releasing a full new army on its own. 

Not to mention starting a new army is a huge investment but picking up a unit or two is no big deal.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

... idk I am pro-new units because it’s healthy for army building yet gameplay-wise I am against a „Trollol look at my chariot, my chariot is amazing: For 100 points and a Warchanter buff I get a dmg potential of 44...“-Situation. 

Is that not what I was stating? I think that chariots or warmachines would give Ironjawz new options that differ aesthetically from Bonesplitterz. I think it would diversify the range, especially with a hero option allowing a chariot to be built in two ways, but I did not know/think that chariots were that fundamentally broken in AOS.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They aren't. He's just being silly. There are some strong playable ones and some rubbish ones just like with all unit types. They've definitely made them more playable than they used to be which is nice. There are no broken Chariots I think

Ironjawz chariots would be fine, although I think a war machine would be more Interesting

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Talking about adding to existing lines.  Help me out, it must exist and I'm just having a brainfart.

  1. Ignore Stormcasts
  2. Ignore heroes from dual army boxes
  3. Ignore Underworlds bands

What AoS factions have had units added to their lineups after they were given Battletomes?  I can't think of any.

Edited by amysrevenge
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Talking about adding to existing lines.  Help me out, it must exist and I'm just having a brainfart.

  1. Ignore Stormcasts
  2. Ignore heroes from dual army boxes
  3. Ignore Underworlds bands

What AoS factions have had units added to their lineups after they were given Battletomes?  I can't think of any.

Interesting point. With those caveats, I can’t think of any either. Granted, the first two conditions are arguably arbitrary rules, along the lines of “if you exclude all the circumstances where it has happened, then you realize it has never happened!”
 

But to your point I think myself, and surely many others have been repeatedly disappointed by a lack of additional models accompanying new battletome releases without realizing the relatively limited precedent for them.  Good for setting expectations, and exciting to consider what the next wave of army releases might bring!

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Talking about adding to existing lines.  Help me out, it must exist and I'm just having a brainfart.

  1. Ignore Stormcasts
  2. Ignore heroes from dual army boxes
  3. Ignore Underworlds bands

What AoS factions have had units added to their lineups after they were given Battletomes?  I can't think of any.

Legions of Nagash with the Nighthaunt units they're able to use 😉

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Talking about adding to existing lines.  Help me out, it must exist and I'm just having a brainfart.

  1. Ignore Stormcasts
  2. Ignore heroes from dual army boxes
  3. Ignore Underworlds bands

What AoS factions have had units added to their lineups after they were given Battletomes?  I can't think of any.

New models always come with a new battletome, and there were only a handful of armies with battletomes in AOS 1.0.

Do endless spells and terrain count? If so, Tzeentch, Fyreslayers , Sylvaneth, etc. would all fall into this category.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ooh I would indeed count Endless Spells. Thanks, that's a good one.  And terrain.  But it's still an edge case.

I think it's fairly clear that other than Stormcasts, whose entire design space is "there's always another chamber to open", and fringe pieces around the edges, updating existing armies with new model kits has not, to date, been a very common practice.  It is possible that it will happen, and you could claim that it is likely to happen, but it is definitely not the current model, and I don't think it's accurate to talk about it as if it's an established practice. 

The current model is that new armies get new models - new armies meaning either brand new like Bonereapers, or upgrading from GHB faction to battletome like Gloomspite or StD (which is all behind us now) - and already existing armies get replacement battletomes, with the possibility for endless spells, terrain, or poaching an existing unit or model kit from another faction or specialist game, but no bespoke new model kits.

In addition to brand new kits, I don't believe that there have been any like-for-like model kit replacements for battletome to battletome upgrades (ie. Flesheater Courts, Boney/Ironjaws, Khorneholios, etc.) where a unit has had its kit replaced with a new one - that's only been for GHB faction to battletome upgrades.

I'd be happy enough to see that change - for the Blades of Khorne AoS3.0 release, add a new unit of Bloodchompers or Skullheavers, why not?  Or replace the old starter box Khorgorath with a new multipart kit or something.  But it would be a new-to-AoS policy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

In addition to brand new kits, I don't believe that there have been any like-for-like model kit replacements for battletome to battletome upgrades (ie. Flesheater Courts, Boney/Ironjaws, Khorneholios, etc.) where a unit has had its kit replaced with a new one - that's only been for GHB faction to battletome upgrades.

Khorne had a few kit upgrades in it's last release, although I think it was all moving finecast to plastic. Flesh hounds, skulltaker, Karanak and the herald all got new kits. 

Edit: although technically the flesh hounds and karanak were a few months before... But close enough

Edited by Grimrock
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Grimrock said:

Khorne had a few kit upgrades in it's last release, although I think it was all moving finecast to plastic. Flesh hounds, skulltaker, Karanak and the herald all got new kits. 

 

Love it.  So maybe there is the start of a trend out there.  I'd like to see it a few more times!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

The current model is that new armies get new models - new armies meaning either brand new like Bonereapers, or upgrading from GHB faction to battletome like Gloomspite or StD (which is all behind us now)

This has been the model until now, but with the release of Seraphon tome soon, I think we have to transition to something else. Otherwise what, they only ever release new armies? Not likely.   GW will now have to revisit existing armies and ask these questions

  1. What factions need more models
  2. What factions need models replaced due to 
    1. Finecast / Resin
    2. Ancient plastic that is not as crisp on detail / inefficient sprue layout that sucks up production capacity
    3. Doesn't match faction aesthetic or game design (model count etc)
  3. How bad will #2 affect players who own the existing models? You have to trade modernization for isolating players who may regret purchasing / painting old models.

Not sure if they will prioritize #1 (Fyreslayers, DoK, FEC) or #2 (Skaven, Seraphon).  But pretty sure armies that do not apply to either (Stormcast, Khorne, Nighthaunt, etc) Will not see any updates for a long time. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, amysrevenge said:

What AoS factions have had units added to their lineups after they were given Battletomes?  I can't think of any.

Fiends, chaos warriors and chaos knights all say hello. Maybe also the khorne hounds.

This was of course about when their battletomes dropped, but it certainly does happen that they update existing models/units, not just special characters or new armies.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Khorne had a few kit upgrades in it's last release, although I think it was all moving finecast to plastic. Flesh hounds, skulltaker, Karanak and the herald all got new kits. 

Edit: although technically the flesh hounds and karanak were a few months before... But close enough

Karanak and Flesh Hounds where the only new models that weren't the hero/terrain/endless spell combination for new Battletomes as far as I remember

Of course Gloomspite Gitz, Slaves to Darkness and Hedonite of Slaanesh all got new stuff but that was basically like a complete restart as they where pretty much dead before so I count them to the new armies with Nighthaunt, Ossiarch Bonereapers and Lumineth Realmlords

So if you don't count the single models as part of the Battletome releases no army (except Khorne) got anything new/remade since their initial release

Of course those heroes are great but it just shows how no one got any new units or anything else except a hero

So I hope after this whole Battletome cycle is over other armies are going to get at least some updates

Edited by Matrindur
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There are stages, right?

Stage 1: Rules exist but there is no model.  This one existed back in t WFB but hasn't really ever been a thing in AoS.  Not an issue.

Stage 2: Models exist, in an outdated format.  Finecast or metal.  Are slowly but surely all being either phased out of the rules, or replaced like-for-like.

Stage 3: Models exist, in old plastics that are aesthetically out of date.  Some of these are being phased out of the rules or replaced like-for-like, but others are stubbornly resisting and staying in the active lineup.

Stage 4: New rules, new model kit.  This is almost uncharted territory, when it comes to existing armies (see my exceptions above - SCE, heroes in dual boxes, specialist game poaching, spells/terrain).

 

Stage 1 hasn't been a thing since AoS started.  Stage 2 and 3 replacements happen.  Stage 4 is, I think, probably going to have to start happening now that GHB upgrades are done, but hasn't really been a thing yet.

Edited by amysrevenge
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

There are stages, right?

Stage 1: Rules exist but there is no model.  This one existed back in t WFB but hasn't really ever been a thing in AoS.  Not an issue.

Stage 2: Models exist, in an outdated format.  Finecast or metal.  Are slowly but surely all being either phased out of the rules, or replaced like-for-like.

Stage 3: Models exist, in old plastics that are aesthetically out of date.  Some of these are being phased out of the rules or replaced like-for-like, but others are stubbornly resisting and staying in the active lineup.

Stage 4: New rules, new model kit.  This is almost uncharted territory, when it comes to existing armies (see my exceptions above - SCE, heroes in dual boxes, specialist game poaching, spells/terrain).

 

Stage 1 hasn't been a thing since AoS started.  Stage 2 and 3 replacements happen.  Stage 4 is, I think, probably going to have to start happening now that GHB upgrades are done, but hasn't really been a thing yet.

Personally I think that with the battletome cycle completed they will do something like Psychic Awakening in 40k with campaign books in the form of Wrath of the Everchoosen but hopefully with every book coming with an update to the respective armies in the form of new units and not only a single model like in 40k 

In 40k its not really bad as most armies already have a sizable selection but AOS really has a problem with tiny units counts in some armies

Edited by Matrindur
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

There are stages, right?

Stage 1: Rules exist but there is no model.  This one existed back in t WFB but hasn't really ever been a thing in AoS.  Not an issue.

Stage 2: Models exist, in an outdated format.  Finecast or metal.  Are slowly but surely all being either phased out of the rules, or replaced like-for-like.

Stage 3: Models exist, in old plastics that are aesthetically out of date.  Some of these are being phased out of the rules or replaced like-for-like, but others are stubbornly resisting and staying in the active lineup.

Stage 4: New rules, new model kit.  This is almost uncharted territory, when it comes to existing armies (see my exceptions above - SCE, heroes in dual boxes, specialist game poaching, spells/terrain).

 

Stage 1 hasn't been a thing since AoS started.  Stage 2 and 3 replacements happen.  Stage 4 is, I think, probably going to have to start happening now that GHB upgrades are done, but hasn't really been a thing yet.

The Scions of Flame will be the first unit that's not an updated sculpt to come out after a battle-tome release (no rules in tome) wont they? Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think that would be your example of Stage 4. Although, falls under specialist game poaching i suppose but maybe not in the same way as Underworlds Warbands are added. You'd be able to field multiple units anyway... Maybe they're the test for the future.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that next rumours/news after Seraphon are brand new armies gives a lot to think. In my opinion, not supported by any fact, there will be armies supported long term and some just updated to new versions of the game. I would bet on a new wave for Idoneth or Kharadron way higher than any new model for Beasts of Chaos outside of the specialist games.

Hopefully between now and Adepticon they will tell us a bit more because personally I reached saturation of new armies. It’s not just buying them, it’s also assembling, painting them and finding storage room...

But I’m happy for new people coming in the hobby and finding what suits them best, more players better games.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, alghero81 said:

In my opinion, not supported by any fact, there will be armies supported long term and some just updated to new versions of the game. I would bet on a new wave for Idoneth or Kharadron way higher than any new model for Beasts of Chaos outside of the specialist games.

I agree.  I think things like Skaven (just a really interesting faction already very heavy in the lore / fiction, very popular), and Free cities (gotta have a faction of just regular ol' humans) will likely get updates in the future... I can see your perspective on Beast of Chaos, although other than LoN that I can't really think of any others I would put in this group.. would be strange if they just picked 1 to keep on life support status  

I also think Legion of Nagash is very temporary. They already pulled Nighthaunt and Ossiarch Bonereapers out of it. Seems like they were trying to pull out any worthwhile plastic kits they could with those 2 releases.  There are very few modern, great plastic kits that do not already fit into one of the non-LoN death factions.  Seems like Skeletons / Grave guard can get scrapped in favor of Bonereapers.  Coven Throne / Mortis Engine really needs a home.  I suspect some Vampire/Mortals faction will come eventually, and then there is no LoN, but Nagash can be played in multiple armies.  This makes things much easier to balance. 
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

At least with beast of chaos there a good chance of getting the other god specific Gor units since those are also tied to their respective God tome release and their 40k chaos marine equivalent.

it their vanilla stuff that has a big question mark

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

Is that not what I was stating? I think that chariots or warmachines would give Ironjawz new options that differ aesthetically from Bonesplitterz. I think it would diversify the range, especially with a hero option allowing a chariot to be built in two ways, but I did not know/think that chariots were that fundamentally broken in AOS.

It‘s not the chariots that are broken. It‘s the Warchanter buff ^^. It turns any well made unit into a god-like machine of overkilling murder.

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, sorokyl said:


I also think Legion of Nagash is very temporary.

IIRC, there was no Legions limited edition book, right?

If so, and giving GW some credit for not selling a premium version of a stopgap book, I would think you are correct.

Edited by Sleboda
Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

IIRC, there was no Legions limited edition book, right?

If so, and giving GW some credit for not selling a premium version of a stopgap book, I would think you are correct.

Agreed.  Since Malignants went to live in Nighthaunt (in theory anyway), and Morghasts, Arkhan and Nagash now live in Bonereapers, it wouldn't surprise me to see a Soulblight book for Neferata and Mannfred to live in.  That would probably include Deadwalkers, Soulblight and Deathrattle as sort of a more true "Vampire Counts" army.  I'm happy to be wrong about that though, as I think Nagash is actually better in LoN as opposed to Bonereapers, so I'd be sad to see LoN go.

Edited by willange
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...