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12 minutes ago, Aryann said:

If I were to guess I'd say the more Death factions we receive the less often will LoN be updated. With AoS promoting strictly themed armies, LoN might be too generic at some point. We already have ghouls (FEC), ghosts (Nighthaunt) and skielies (OBR). When/If GW adds a vampire specific faction LoN will have not much to offer in terms of identity.

The main Identity of Legions of Nagash should be combining multiple Keywords into a new Allegiance.

This Identity is missing a little at the moment because the Legions in the Book are nearly the same except for some Abilities except for Legion of Grief (which is not in the Book but includes all Nighthaunt Models but no Soulblight  and Grand Host of Nagash (with their own Battleline)

Basicly something like:

  • All Legions include Deathrattle, Deathmages, Deadwalker
    • Legion of Sacrament can include Bonereapers and Arkhan,
    • Legion of Grief can include Nighthaunt and Lady Olynder
    • Legion of Night can include Flesh Eater Courts and Mannfred (there are so many Stories where he used Flesh-Eater Units)
    • Legion of Blood can include Soulblight and Neferata

Maybe with the 1/4 Relation like Cities of Sigmar. That way each Legion could have their own Identity while other Allegiances exist.

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"Divide to better rule" seems to be the new mojo for GW. They don't wan't soup in new armies, clearly separating  armies by theme, identity and range. Making the customer who want this unit and that monster inclined to buy both armies. I hate this. And I'm happy that GW had to make soup battletomes to finish 2.0 in a hurry (DoT, StD, LoN, Nurgle, Skaven...): those  BT are simply the best and my fav.

Edited by GeneralZero
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Really beautiful minis, the aelven lads look more beautiful than I could ever imagine 😍

As for the argument whether they are more inspired by hoplites or the far east, I think this is Age of Sigmar's greatest strength at play which we already saw with OBR - mix and match elements from real cultures instead of taking them wholesale and risk some really problematic takes.

Spoiler

Also, Zoats are back, baby!

 

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7 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

"Divide to better rule" seems to be the new mojo for GW. They don't wan't soup in new armies, clearly separating  armies by theme, identity and range. Making the customer who want this unit and that monster inclined to buy both armies. I hate this. And I'm happy that GW had to make soup battletomes to finish 2.0 in a hurry (DoT, StD, LoN, Nurgle, Skaven...): those  BT are simply the best and my fav.

Yeah, still a bit chaotic in that regard. Some soup, some don’t, some just a bit, and then there’s still the grand alliance thing, allies and mercenaries.  Lots of alive, half-dead and dead-in-the-water options, and a nightmare for beginners to choose from.

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Cross-posting from seraphon thread since I really think this battletome cover mertis more discussion

In addition to the saurus not looking like existing saurus models, there are a lot of goldon icon on pole things that do not match anything we have. 

In green i have circled the Current Carnosaur and Engine of the Gods. They mostly match.  The things in red don't come close to anything we have. (unless I am an idiot and missing something. 

It's unusual for battletome cover art to stray so much from the models, isn't it??They oven go as far as to painting the characters even in the exact same pose as the model. 

What do you guys think? new models confirmed? Artist took too much liberty? 
seraphon.png.d86a8338203ae491091bf1b29988a8c8.png

Edited by sorokyl
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1 hour ago, El Syf said:

LVO reveals were rather underwhelming then. Two order armies; the grand alliance that arguably already has enough armies (sorry pointy elves fanbois).

This is one of the reasons why I don't like Grand Alliances.  By default Order by encompassing every Non- Chaos, Dead or Gorkamorka follower, should have vastly more factions.  But people feel the need to have some kind of parity between the Grand Alliances. 

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18 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Cleary a mastermind at work!

You’d just have to start playing skaven, to finish your astonishing- magnificent artwork😋😉

I play almost every army in AoS, thanks to multiple Carrion Empire boxes for my Flesh-Eaters army, I ended up with a 2000pts Skaven army too 😂

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The new elves look alright, for elves. Though I'm not sold on the new Teclis. The beasty is fine, but he the Teclis pose just looks weird(and that paint job isn't doing it any favors).

Now I'm really looking forward to when the non-Underworlds version of the Underworlds warbands come out. New wolf riders already had me excited and now I can get a plastic sorcerer(without having to get the rest of the Glottkin for it) and a couple extra Blightkings.

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2 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

It's unusual for battletome cover art to stray so much from the models, isn't it??They oven go as far as to painting the characters even in the exact same pose as the model. 

What do you guys think? new models confirmed? Artist took too much liberty? 
 

I am 99% sure that is just artistic liberties. The models are rather plain, so they went with how the more modern look of the carnosaur riders appear and also how the blood bowl saurus appear. If we got new kits it would look like this.

All those banners I just don't see as being anything they worry so much about. An entirely new suit of armor, a new dinosaur or anything else vastly different maybe, but I fear looking at the seraphon version of "banners" is clutching at straws sadly. It just stings they make a kit for blood bowl, but can't update their main line...

18 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

"Divide to better rule" seems to be the new mojo for GW. They don't wan't soup in new armies, clearly separating  armies by theme, identity and range. Making the customer who want this unit and that monster inclined to buy both armies. I hate this. And I'm happy that GW had to make soup battletomes to finish 2.0 in a hurry (DoT, StD, LoN, Nurgle, Skaven...): those  BT are simply the best and my fav.

Oh I don't really hope so, some good things come from "soup" but not cross tome soup please!  This is already painfully sad for nighthaunt who are just terrible to bring with their own battletome but shine a bit more in LoN and the recent LoG.

Soup is already completely wrecking the balance of competetive 40k and ruining the flavor of anything imperial, I do not want to see that in AoS. I really like thematic armies and would hate to see skinks as mandatory battleline for order, or every "destruction" army just spamming grots. 

The unique styles, themes and vision of very specific forces with rules which support their narrative and fighting style is something I really enjoy.

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1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

I am 99% sure that is just artistic liberties. The models are rather plain, so they went with how the more modern look of the carnosaur riders appear and also how the blood bowl saurus appear. If we got new kits it would look like this.

All those banners I just don't see as being anything they worry so much about. An entirely new suit of armor, a new dinosaur or anything else vastly different maybe, but I fear looking at the seraphon version of "banners" is clutching at straws sadly. It just stings they make a kit for blood bowl, but can't update their main line...

Their armor is totally different though.

Saurus Warriors basically don't wear armor at all, they've just got scattered bits of gold jewelry and shields. Saurus Guard are a bit more heavily armored, but it's mostly restricted to mismatched back plates, thigh guards, and the odd chest piece that barely covers their clavicle. And these aren't Saurus Guard anyway because they lack the signature polearms and bone helmets.

These Saurus are all outfitted with heavy spiked pauldrons, full size breatplates, warclubs and an entirely new type of banner, and those elements are consistent across all the models on the cover.

In fact, what the cover actually looks like after firing up TWW for the first time in a while, is that the center guy is almost dead-on Creative Assemblies take on the Oldblood on Foot turned into a unit champion, with the rest of his unit standing behind him wearing matching armor, carrying new banners, ect.

My expectations are rock bottom, I am empty of hope, but looking at the cover designs looks far more like a new infantry line than an prettied up version of existing models, and we have lots of art that has the proportions of the Blood Bowl Saurus without totally changing up their gear like this.

Edited by madmac
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1 hour ago, HollowHills said:

I know that maggotkin are hurting a bit too. Their demons are really poor in particular. I'm not enough of an expert to give any insight. 

Short answer: Holy hell yes they need a new battletome.

Longer answer: The buffs they received in the GHB 2019 and Winter FAQ might have blight cyst builds be actually viable though outside of Blightkings I think Rotbringers are still lacking (I haven't gotten a chance to really take things for a spin with all the other armies I've been working on). Nurgle Daemons are straight garbage tier. GUO with bell and dagger is useful (+3 move on blightkings is no joke) but generally feels overcosted for what he does. GUO with sword/flail is hilariously bad and Rotigus has niche usefulness/is over costed. Nurgle spell casting in general is incredibly weak in the modern meta due as a lack of +casting, requiring 7s to go off, and short range meaning you can't get spells off when you need them. Nurgle demon artifacts are lackluster too. Beasts of Nurgle might be okay at their points costs now and with the point reduction to menagerie there could be a list there but I'm not impressed with Plaguebearers or Plague drones and its a very expensive list in terms of $$ to get the beasts and trees required for it.

There are probably some more competitive Nurgle lists if you lean into Clan Pestilins\Beasts of Chaos\STD but I'm a crochety old man and want to play the actual battletome I brought with the miniatures shown in it.

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44 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

"Divide to better rule" seems to be the new mojo for GW. They don't wan't soup in new armies, clearly separating  armies by theme, identity and range. Making the customer who want this unit and that monster inclined to buy both armies. I hate this. And I'm happy that GW had to make soup battletomes to finish 2.0 in a hurry (DoT, StD, LoN, Nurgle, Skaven...): those  BT are simply the best and my fav.

I hate soup battletomes. It's like "throw everything you are left with into a pot and check if it is eatable". Lack of taste for me. 

To me a perfect situation would be when armies differ so much from each other in terms of design that it would feel like a crime to mix them together. So that just by seeing a single model you would already be able to tell that units story and his allegiance. 

I own several armies now (most still in boxes...) and each and every is build up to 2k only by units from that army. To give them their own identity. I also try to paint and base them as much different as possible from each one another. 

Edited by Aryann
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So, that truly was a reveal worthy of being called "massive" for once. Going through it bit by bit:


 

Lumineth Realm Lords:

More miniatures shown than I expected, I thought we'd see Tyrion and maybe up to two new basic units. So having one more hero shown than I expected to see at maximum.

Auralan Wardens: They are flawlessly executed. About the only unexpected bits are the non-pointy helmets and properly braced spears. A very similar unit to Ossiarch Mortek Guard. If they are similarly priced I might see myself getting a small force. Interestingly, no banner or musician. Could foretell these being part of another easy to build SC? On the other hand, the cavalry do have a banner and not all AoS units get a full command squad. Not as dynamic as almost every new GW unit, but that is more appropiate for a disciplined spear phalanx, so that choice gets a thumbs up from me in this case.

Vanari Dawnriders: For the riders, I can only repeat myself, unsurprising, but flawlessly executed. It's nice to see cavalry on regular horses again. Just as with the Chaos Knights, the proportions  of the horses look of to me, maybe I'm just to used to miniature horses having huge heads from old WFB, but these heads look to small to my mind

 

The Light of Eltharion: The surprise star. Again, Looks wonderfully done. I'm a bit surprised the GW team didn't paint it with OSR, but I'm sure we'll see plenty of that once it's released. I really like this sort of way to bring back old heroes, more as homage instead of just plucking the old guys into a new setting. Personally hope it's like the Spirit of Druthu or the Eidolon of Mathlann, actually a generic hero, but even as SC I like it much better than a mere revival.

 

Teclis himself: I don't care for SCs, even if they are gods. Bit by bit, he's as wonderful a mini as his Lumineth. The pose is a bit odd, though I think of it more as him floating next to the beast rather than jumping of the back of his mount. That thing has no saddle and looks way to fancy to serve as steed and a super-magic god that can fly at will probably has more use of a bodyguard/advisor/familiar than a mount. Well, Community says Teclis is "riding of it", though as pictured he isn't and Community doesn't always have those sort of details right.

 

Celennar: This thing is my favorite of the batch. The parallels to the Mindstealer Sphyranx are obvious and unsurprising, considering the Sphyranxes are renegade servants of Teclis according to the Battletome. Very happy the Sphyranx wasn't a "one and done". Sphynxes are among my favorite mythic beasties and something GW never really explored as actual creatures before, as the khemrian ones where great, but to far of the inspiration and undead constructs to boot. Even then, these actually do tie in in a way with the old Tomb King Sphynxes. Those where also representative of the pre-undeath Khemrian culture opposed to Nagash, which used not only the Lore of Death, but also the lore of Light. If Community is to be believed, there's more than one of these, so if I can get one in a list without that SC floating god and there's more options for the beast, well I think that right there is a big draw to the army. Love to see the mask on it as well. As I've said before, masks are really a big thing in AoS and with so much High Elf nostalgia in the line, it's nice to see something to tie it in with the themes of the Mortal Realms and this thing does that 100%.

 

Looking Forward: Obviously there's a lot more to come, I guess about a Bonereaper sized release. We can obviously expect a battleline unit of marksmen. Some generic heroes are to be expected as well, mostly Mages I'd expect, but some sort of martial general wouldn't be a surprise either. Then I'd expect at least one type of elite melee infantry, it's something all GW Elves save Idoneth got so far. Add a reimagination of the Reaper bolt thrower and some more fantastic units and we might be looking at a range not only similar in size to Ossiarchs, but with a rather similar army composition as well. Ossiarchs are comparatively budget friendly and since I am still looking for a more "for play" army next to my "for converting" Chaos collection the Lumineth might just steal that spot from the Bonereapers.

 

 

On to the other things:

 

Mechanicus: I love the Mechanicus and these are no exception. That said, I'm a bit annoyed at how non-futuristic they look. For one I wish GW did more of the nightmarish biomechanical Admech of old 40k art and for another I really dislike seeing Admech used for AoS conversions without major modifications, which I'll now see more of. It's admittedly a matter of taste and I always think people should follow their own taste when converting, still, it is a bit of an annoyance.

 

Seraphon: I think the lore will be interesting and that terrain piece looks awesome. Still I really feel with the Seraphon players hoping for new minis. Not only where a bunch of basic Seraphon troops never great miniatures to begin with (throws side eye at all Saurus non-character units). Not only are many dated and finecast. But most of all I think Seraphon really need to get updated to their new lore, specifically the advanced magitek part of them to really properly bring them into AoS.

 

The Wurmspat: The two blightkings are as most Rotbringers and Deathguard. Very nice to have some new poses and bodies in a force with a rather limited pool of them and very well executed, but ultimately more of the same. The sorceress on the other hand brings a lot of sorely missing points to the game. For starters, it's the first really appealing mage sculpt for the current Nurgle look. Then it's a female mini for a range that really should have some females among their numbers. Then it's a female mini of a body type we haven't got from GW currently and one that looks easily modified for a number of other ranges, I can see here really shining in Dark Age of Sigmar and Inq28 circles. And last, it's a classic fantasy trope, the wicked crone hag, that I can't remember GW doing in a long,long time if ever (Necromancer works, but was intended as male and the troll hag doesn't count due to size).

 

The Zoat: The real star for me, absolutely everything a modern Zoat should be. They really went 11/10 with the 80s scyfy/Rogue Trader designs on its equipment and managed to make it look as good as it can possibly get. I love and adore it and must have it. In my eyes it easily beats out even the Ambull and GSC in the revival of a forgotten (by the GW design team that is) 40k classic. Blackstone Fortress has really been a teasure trove so far and I hope it will remain so for a long time to come seeing how much ground there is yet to cover.

Edited by Rogue Explorator
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