The Rumour Thread

[Thomas Lyons]

2 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

They are still valid but have no points so can't be used in matched play.

 

This is not technically true until the new GHBII drops.  The current GHB should likely stay in effect until a new GHB replaces it.  Just because profiles aren't in the current SCE tome doesn't mean they are immediately illegal.  The FW exclusive Stormcast isn't on that newest list and he has points and is legal in matched play.  Things will likely only cycle out when they are formally not pointed in the forthcoming update.  Alternatively, you might see a new section in the Compendium scrolls for Stormcast Eternals that includes these battalions (which could also be a possibility).  More than likely though, with the new GHB2, these battalions will disappear.

I'm not sure why people seem to be shocked by this.  This is what yearly updates looks like: updated point swings based on current meta; phased out battalions; rebalanced Matched play profiles (battleline status, numbers, etc).  This is what yearly updates means.  Consequently, people won't be able to "buy" an army once-and-done and expect it to be playable using the same roster after a year.  Point values will change and units will have to be added or taken away for it to be playable in matched play.  None of this should be surprising.    

[nine7six]

taken from @rhellion on twitter.

[Dez]

Nice, a bit of rules flavor added. Can't wait to see more (and a bit more fluff too!).

[daedalus81]

Oh ******.  Knight Excelsior chamber plus that general bonus of +1 save.  There are going to be some tanky SCE out there.

Edited February 15, 2017 by daedalus81

[wayniac]

24 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

They are still valid but have no points so can't be used in matched play.

 

I don't think this is right, because they were in the Grand Alliance: Order book (and given points in General's Handbook), so why would they have points reprinted in the Stormcast Eternals battletome?  That's where this gets odd.

[BaldoBeardo]

Also... Celestial Vindicators specifies Hammerstrike Force Battalions that contain a certain number of PALADIN units.
Current HF battalion is Retributors only.
Holy hell, Protectors will be horrific in Turquoise...

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[BaldoBeardo]

Oh ******.  Knight Excelsior chamber plus that general bonus of +1 save.  There are going to be some tanky SCE out there.

And that's where you demand fluff-accurate paint jobs and the correct iconography! [emoji16]

[Gaz Taylor]

21 minutes ago, Lord Brando said:

But their matched play profile is in the generals handbook and apply to warscrolls outside of the book, does it list them in the stormcast book and say no points/not valid? Or do they note this somewhere that the storm cast book invalidates rules from another book?

 

Personally I would like players would use common sense and stick with new rules but can see situations where people may not be aware about the differences (such as new players). I think the approach to them would be the following

• Friendly games - You discuss with opponent what you want to do
• Tournaments - Organisers decide what is used.

Again common sense is to use the new rules.  

[Guest]

On 2/11/2017 at 8:45 AM, Kyriakin said:

Surely the FW GUO is far more characterful than the current GW one? Ditto KoS.

If we're going to cherry-pick, it works both ways.

I'm not cherry picking. I picked two fairly recent examples of models that share the same basic concept and price range. You're absolutely right that the FW Great Unclean One is vastly superior to the GW version, but you're actually reinforcing my point; both are super old, which demonstrates that GW have steamed ahead in terms of quality and value for centrepiece models since then, while FW are lagging behind. Pick any two equivalent examples from any given year, and you'll see a consistent increase in the standard of the GW models over time, and absolutely no change in the standard of the FW models.

 

On 2/13/2017 at 9:08 AM, RuneBrush said:

FW will always be producing models that veer on the realistic front - it's what they're known for and set up to do. 

Have to disagree with you there. In it's early days FW used to create amazing centrepiece models for Warhammer Fantasy that were orders of magnitude bigger and grander than anything GW produced at the time. The sculpts had much more detail, and there was more of it, but they were still recognisably tied to the GW studio style. That's not the same thing as being realistic.

There is nothing remotely realistic about the new Khorne model, with it's unnatural pose, weird proportions and lack of muscle definition. And it's not even as detailed as the plastic Khorne daemons GW have been producing recently like the Bloodthirster and Skarbrand, nor does it share any of the same aesthetic attributes (but it's more expensive, naturally). The gap between GW and FW has narrowed over the years, and since The End Times the situation has visibly reversed.

FW currently being understaffed partially explains why the quality of their fantasy output has remained static and in this most recent case even dipped, but it doesn't make it any better.

 

On 2/13/2017 at 9:08 AM, RuneBrush said:

The new Bloodbowl models - those were done by FW, as are Fimir and Chaos Dwarves and I don't think anybody would say they're under-par.

Those particular examples are good, but not markedly better than the plastics GW have released in the last year or two. You're comparing FW to FW rather than FW to GW. I have no doubt that if GW made those kits in plastic today they would be at least as good as, if not superior to, the FW versions.

 

On 2/13/2017 at 9:08 AM, RuneBrush said:

That's not FW's GUO - that's a HH special character "Corax Utterblight" so follows the HH style rather than the new fantastical AoS style.

I'm aware that it's not a Great Unclean One (not sure why that's relevant in any case - neither is the Glottkin), and its style has nothing to do with it being part of the Horus Heresy Series. It's exactly the same style FW used for all the Nurgle sculpts in Tamurkhan's Horde. Which again is less anatomically aware, less detailed and in a completely different style to everything GW have produced for Nurgle since at least The End Times if not earlier.

I can understand that some people have a stylistic preference for what FW have been producing in recent years, but to suggest their standards are empirically better or that they represent value for money in comparison to the modern GW equivalent is just not supported by even a cursory inspection of the two studios' respective output. The main GW studio are now the masters of the centrepiece model. If hiring more sculptors and renewing their focus on fantasy miniatures heralds a new golden era of quality and awesomeness at FW then I'm all for it, and it would be great to see them produce some stuff that genuinely amazes again like the Empire Landship and Chaos War Mammoth did back in the day, but we'll have to wait and see. In the meantime I don't see why we should give a free pass to perfunctory, mediocre models being priced and marketed as premium collectors' pieces. If we throw money at these things they'll just give us more of the same.

The way I see it, FW have two options - they can either up their game and regain their place as the masters of the epic centrepiece model (see all of their old Greater Daemons), or they can produce models that fill the gaps in the AoS lore that GW don't intend to exploit themselves (see Fimir). A mediocre Khorne daemon prince achieves neither of those things.

[Aginor]

To me the SCE are like the New England Patriots in American Football:

I don't like them much because they seem to get all the publicity and they are shiny arrogant ***** who are kinda overpowered, and they have a lot of fair weather fans because of that, but I have to admit they ARE kinda cool and I am a bit jealous of a lot of their abilities. It becomes increasingly hard to not like them. And I am probably unable to paint them decently (because I suck at painting) so I can't really play them....

[wayniac]

2 minutes ago, Aginor said:

To me the SCE are like the New England Patriots in American Football:

I don't like them much because they seem to get all the publicity and they are shiny arrogant ***** who are kinda overpowered, and they have a lot of fair weather fans because of that, but I have to admit they ARE kinda cool and I am a bit jealous of a lot of their abilities. It becomes increasingly hard to not like them. And I am probably unable to paint them decently (because I suck at painting) so I can't really play them....

As someone who likes Stormcast and absolutely despises the Patriots (only football team I 100% loathe), I take offense at this

I do wonder how strict people are going to be about the Stormhost battalions and paint schemes.  I wonder if it will turn out like 40k often does with "You can't use Ultramarines rules if you're models aren't blue" kind of thing...

[BaldoBeardo]

As someone who likes Stormcast and absolutely despises the Patriots (only football team I 100% loathe), I take offense at this [emoji14]
I do wonder how strict people are going to be about the Stormhost battalions and paint schemes.  I wonder if it will turn out like 40k often does with "You can't use Ultramarines rules if you're models aren't blue" kind of thing...

Guy who used to attend my club had a red/black space marine force. Used the chapter traits for ultramarines, salamanders and white scars in rotation depending on opposition. Because "fun reasons".[emoji37]
You want knights excelsior, I'm checking your models for the right shoulder pads. [emoji6]

[Gaz Taylor]

As much as I love the Patriots, this is a rumour thread and not a Football thread  

6 minutes ago, wayniac said:

I do wonder how strict people are going to be about the Stormhost battalions and paint schemes.  I wonder if it will turn out like 40k often does with "You can't use Ultramarines rules if you're models aren't blue" kind of thing...

I can see some people getting excited about this but I think in general it will be ok

[Dez]

As a native New Englander, I guess I should love Stormcast to the detriment of all others in the Realms  Also the Bretonnian Red Stockings, Chamon Celtics and the Bastion Bruins  

The 9 Realms run on Duncan, amirite?

 

 

I really hope we get some Dwarf leaks today....

Edited February 15, 2017 by Dez

[Double Misfire]

25 minutes ago, BaldoBeardo said:

And that's where you demand fluff-accurate paint jobs and the correct iconography!

All obviously a ploy by GW to force people to rebuy their Liberator units and arm them with swords and sell off their overstock of turquoise paint. Don't fall for GW's lies, mix your existing blues and greens!

[kozokus]

WAIT! one of the magic banners is redundant with the Knight Vexillor..... could he have lost the reroll charge at 12"?

[RuneBrush]

15 minutes ago, Jamie the Jasper said:

Have to disagree with you there. In it's early days FW used to create amazing centrepiece models for Warhammer Fantasy that were orders of magnitude bigger and grander than anything GW produced at the time. The sculpts had much more detail, and there was more of it, but they were still recognisably tied to the GW studio style. That's not the same thing as being realistic.

There is nothing remotely realistic about the new Khorne model, with it's unnatural pose, weird proportions and lack of muscle definition. And it's not even as detailed as the plastic Khorne daemons GW have been producing recently like the Bloodthirster and Skarbrand, nor does it share any of the same aesthetic attributes (but it's more expensive, naturally). The gap between GW and FW has narrowed over the years, and since The End Times the situation has visibly reversed.

FW currently being understaffed partially explains why the quality of their fantasy output has remained static and in this most recent case even dipped, but it doesn't make it any better.

Don't want to get into a prolonged discussion on this in the rumour thread as I replied 6 pages ago and it's fairly out of context now (we've loads of exciting Stormcast pics to peer at).  If you see the new daemon prince model in the flesh you may change your opinion (you may not).  GW have massively upped the game because of advances with plastic technology and 3d-sculpting allowing them to get more detail in.  FW are purely resin which hasn't fundamentally changed in how models are molded and cast for decades.  That said, many FW models suffer when they're painted and photographed, almost having too much detail.

15 minutes ago, Jamie the Jasper said:

Those particular examples are good, but not markedly better than the plastics GW have released in the last year or two. You're comparing FW to FW rather than FW to GW. I have no doubt that if GW made those kits in plastic today they would be at least as good as, if not superior to, the FW versions.

The point I was trying to make FW are able to produce some decent quality fantasy models.  Saying that everything they produce is under-par is only your opinion or incorrect. 

---

However lets continue to froth over the new Stormcast bits and wonder if I can refrain from painting up a couple of chambers  

[Lord Brando]

31 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Personally I would like players would use common sense and stick with new rules but can see situations where people may not be aware about the differences (such as new players). I think the approach to them would be the following

• Friendly games - You discuss with opponent what you want to do
• Tournaments - Organisers decide what is used.

Again common sense is to use the new rules.  

Hey fair enough, 

But to me there are No 'new rules' for those two formations. For example: Because Stormcast units points changed, are we now invaliding their use in the slyvaneth warscroll battalions because they arent mentioned in this stormcast book?

I am just playing devils advocate here the community will have to decide of course. I didn't build either of those formations yet out of such fears of nerf'ing in matched play myself.

Of course we pick and choose the rules we use in all settings, base to base/model to model etc.  

Cheers!

[wayniac]

11 minutes ago, kozokus said:

WAIT! one of the magic banners is redundant with the Knight Vexillor..... could he have lost the reroll charge at 12"?

Maybe.  See, I think it would have been slightly OP but nice if the Vexilor and Azyros could automatically choose a banner/lantern from the list, similar to how the Relictor gets prayers or a mount gets traits.  But since they count as artefacts that's not how it works.

[Blitzel]

Those SCE pics look really nice. I like the layout and sryle very much. Can't wait untill they release the free peoples book!

[BURF1]

Very unimpressed so far, most of these are horrifically expensive with their special additional bonuses being impossible to get in 2000 point games for several of them. Most of the bonuses are underwhelming considering how bad the battalions you have to take are. The celestial vindicators are the best of the bunch because of the hammerstrike force but the other ones still have the problem of 'land 9 inches away, fail your charge, lose 200-400 points of paladins to shooting/counter charge.

[bottle]

I got to read some of the Battletome today, don't know if it's already been mentioned but the battletrait is called "Scions of the Storm" and means all units can be deployed in the celestial realm and you roll for each at the start of the turn with them having to be deployed on a 3+ (9" away from the enemy). Lots of the battalions still have "Lightening Strike" but it is modified to instead allow you to +/-2 to the Scions of the Storm roll for the units in it, so it still doesn't give you complete control of when they drop (if you roll a 5/6 they are always coming down).

Edited February 15, 2017 by bottle

[Dawnmane]

New Rumour Engine!: 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/15/rumour-engine-february-15th-2017/

 

 

- some sort of Death scenery?

Edited February 15, 2017 by Dawnmane

[DynamicCalories]

I think, based on the text "Well, this looks a bit grim… wonder what it could be?" it's a pun and it will be related to Fulgrim.

 

Bit grim... full grim. GW rockin' that amazing humour as always

Edited February 15, 2017 by DynamicCalories

[Bjarni St.]

Yeah but considering GW's skull policy ("Needs more") that could be actual anything.