GeneralZero Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 31 minutes ago, MitGas said: While I'm thankful for your long and informative replies, I still think that the horse pointing downward in motion is simply wrong. The horse on the left simply looks weird pointing down like that, the angle is too steep even if the overall movement pattern is kinda correct. Nothing to fix there. You know, in a battle, the charge is the shortest time of the rider: in the middle of the fight, exceptional riders (like varanguards?) do one with their horse (or whatever it is) fighting both around them, the horse hitting hard, not with the front but with the back legs. And I like the position of the left one reflecting exactly this fighting spirit. Same for the more classical posture of the right one. The middle one is more likely charging. (PS: I was myself a rider learning sword and spear fighting on a real horse). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 That's a good thought on a fighting horse; esp as its something we don't actually often see in films even. We tend to see the charge and then get a general chaotic bit of "and then there was lots of combat". It's probably because whilst there are loads of stunts for moving on/around*/off a horse (including all those falls); there's less for "horse kicks the living daylights out of everything around it in battle". Even in this digital age (probably because training a horse to kick isn't something most trainers want to do) I think the best example I get come to mind of a Warhorse that really sounded and was described as one and in battle is in The Red Knight by Miles Cameron. Which actually makes me wonder about GW writers as we ever so often hear about the heroes but I'm hardpressed to think of any famous mounts in the stories. Heck it might be that on the animal front Archibald might well be the most famous and one of the only few examples of an animal/mount type character (although I've a feeling there are some Old World Dark Elf stories about a rider and Cold One mount) * I saw an impressive display at a show a year or two back using a modified saddle where the rider went from on top, slipped to the side, went underneath and then pulled themselves up the other side of the saddle to regain their seat. All whilst at a run/gallop (sorry I don't know enough "horse" to likely get the term right for the speed). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Explorator Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 I'd just like to throw in that posing (which as been going back to being more limited lately and which was never all that great once you applied a certain standart with most multiparts of old) is by far not the only thing multipart kits offer. I'm talking equipment option loadouts, of which Warriors currently have four. Hard to see how they'd keep up with that, all four options would take up far more than one big sprue by themself. They can't take the route they took with CSM and not include the full loadout of options unless they tzaangor* the unit and turn them into a mixed loadout. Worst case being with one shieldbearer propping up a whole unit again, in which case I'd honestly prefer they stick to just giving us monoposes snappfits. Could well be helberts and greatswords get lost either way, it wouldn't be the first time a unit build option gets lost in AoS and they've only been available as a non-plastic add on for any multipart Chaos Warrior ever produced. Then there's the question of the command squad. Honestly, I personally wouldn't be to broken up about their loss on the rule side of things. As converter it would free me up to model whatever command squad I want into my units. But I'd be sad to see all the banners gone from the battlefield in general. Plus looking at the Warriors we know we will get, I think matching banners and instruments would be great bits. Which brings me to number three. Multipart kits come with bits. Maybe not as many as there used to be, but still., for me those are an integral part of the hobby. I convert compulsively, which is admittedly why I take extremely long to finish anything (part of my enthusiasm is about getting at least 10 warriors I like enough to only low key convert instead of scratch building my own, saving me a lot of time). Bits are a huge part of that. So of course I'm hoping for a multipart for one of my absolutely favorite units. And then there's that the poses in modern multipart kits may still be limited, but they tend to not be as eye catching as those on snapfite monoposes. Which is really good if you don't want your army to look like synchronized clones. This is also why to me the best situation a collector can hope for right now is that an army gets both modern snap fits and a multipart kit for its most important unit. This actualy gives the biggest amount of pose and build options out of everything we've ever had. Clearly, only few units ever get that privelege, but personaly I feel Chaos Warriors are the most iconic unit in all non-40k Warhammer and absolutely deserve that distinction. All in all, for me multipart kits are really important because they perfectly encompass most the parts of the hobby I love and that anchor me to it. Customization, creativity, options, whimsy and a good bit of individualism. More than that, they also carry the spirit of those things into the hobby at large. Yes, those old multipose models wheren't really all that posable when you actually wanted your models to still look anatomically correct and stylish. But they animate even a complete newcomer with little to no aptitude for modelling to make those little plastic models their own and experiment a bit. Who cares if they end up looking awkward as long as the owner enjoys it? And maybe learns something from it and next time dares to go a bit further with the customization? But with very little customization in the rules and models where you often need to already have build your confidence with a hobby knife and greenstuff for even a simple conversion, I don't exactly see customization encouraged in newcomers right now. We all have parts of the hobby we care more or less about. I'm sure if we do end up getting a big multipart kit for Warriors but they keep/get weak stats for to high a point price many would be quite annoyed by that or pass over Warrior after all. And that is something I don't care about, I just want to field some Chaos Warriors that to me look worthy of the name and legacy in my army. That isn't better or worse, it's just different priorities and I guess I'm trying to say we all should see our priorities aknowledged, but not dominate. So, in the end, I guess if the message is to be "A monopose snap fit kit is as good or even better than a multipart kit", then I don't think my priorities are aknowledged. *Yes, tzaangor is a verb now. You're welcome. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calcysimon Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Since warriors, knights and the lord are just the tip of the iceberg what do you wish to see guys?! Fimirs? Chaos trolls? (meh) New chosens (99% probably) Forsakens 🥰🤞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Right now its very hard to say. Don't forget there's 3 new Warcry beasts and the 8 Warbands coming to join into Slaves to Darkness. So that boosts it up even more in terms of variety for the army. Also a good few of the "Creatures of Chaos" models are also in Slaves to Darkness (honestly when Slaves comes out I'd hope the Creatures tab goes away since all the models are otherwise contained within other armies and Creatures isn't even a useful sub category on the store). New Chosen would make sense since the current are finecast. I've heard rumour that the new kits in the start collecting are all push-fit kits and that there might be "proper kits" with command options and alternate parts coming later. That would be where I'd expect to see Chaos chosen. Plus Warriors themselves have several additional weapon options that would ideally appear on a single sprue. That alone would clear up their army a lot; plus I'd expect to see the finecast chaos lords go; since there's already a new mounted lord and also other regular lords that wouldn't be losing much. However what would be fantastic would be either a single kit or four kits with "marked" chaos lord mortals - one for each of the Chaos armies (although I fall behind on checking now, the other Chaos Gods might already have such models - I only know that currently Slaanesh does not, having lost their foot and mounted lords in the update). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 hours ago, RandyRyan said: I used to have a full unit of these, so yeah not bothered by these new Warriors being monopose 🤣 Yes, this truly is what we should be aiming towards in modelling standards- a return to the mid 90s! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Sleboda said: It's genuinely interesting to me how much variation there is in hobbyists. Given a choice, all models in one unit would be identical, other than the command group. I like units to look like units, not free roaming bands of loosely associated peeps. It also lets me keep two units close to each other, even intermingled, by being able to say "unit one is arm up, unit two is both arms down." Fantastic, but why should I be limited by your preferences? If, to use an amazingly small example, there is the option to position arms on a model, you have the choice to still create units the way you prefer- you have to do a little more work than you would do otherwise, but we are both happy at the end of the day. If we go monopose, you're very happy and I have to choose between clone statues and no models at all. Which is better? The world where we can both enjoy things or the one where I'm dissatisfied and you're happy? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 hour ago, calcysimon said: Since warriors, knights and the lord are just the tip of the iceberg what do you wish to see guys?! Fimirs? Chaos trolls? (meh) New chosens (99% probably) Forsakens 🥰🤞 I'd gladly take all of them but Chosen and Fimirs would be my preferred kits. The Chosen/Varanguard kit could also be used to make your own lord in theory but who knows what the future holds in that regard... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kirjava13 said: Fantastic, but why should I be limited by your preferences I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think my preferences should limit you. I never said or implied any such thing. I was merely adding to the conversation by raising my view and noting how we, as hobbyists, have diverse opinions (which is a good thing, I believe). Also, your conclusion (not quoted) that my preference leaves you with a non-purchase option is false. You can still convert monopose models more easily than I can ... fabricate ... cloned models. You just have to chop. I have to sculpt. Either way, we both are doing more work than we prefer. Edited November 5, 2019 by Sleboda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtnaps Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 hours ago, calcysimon said: Since warriors, knights and the lord are just the tip of the iceberg what do you wish to see guys?! Fimirs? Chaos trolls? (meh) New chosens (99% probably) Forsakens 🥰🤞 Along with Chosen and Forsaken I'm thinking we might see the option to make a Chaos Sorcerer Lord in the non SC Chaos Lord box and maybe a Bel'akor/ Daemon Prince dual kit. If they were going to make new spawn unit I think now would be a good time as well since there's got to be at least one rule that turns your heroes into one on an unlucky roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbelly Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 5 hours ago, RandyRyan said: I used to have a full unit of these, so yeah not bothered by these new Warriors being monopose 🤣 And remember these guys? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still-young Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 7 hours ago, calcysimon said: Since warriors, knights and the lord are just the tip of the iceberg what do you wish to see guys?! Fimirs? Chaos trolls? (meh) New chosens (99% probably) Forsakens 🥰🤞 Is this just wishful thinking that there’s more coming or has it actually been rumoured? I wouldn’t be surprised if this is it, at least for quite a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldarain Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I'm thinking it will be what we've seen for now. Between the SC and all the Warcry stuff it's quite the release. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 17 hours ago, Jazzbeaux said: I have noticed that neither the Warriors or Knights have standards or musicians featured. Shame if they've gone, unless there is some sort of Knight-Heraldor or Knight-Vexillor equivalents to come. Might also be due to them being (rumoured) push fits. Just like the push fit sequitors in the soul wars box didn't have any alternative options. When a full box drops they might still be in there. 16 hours ago, MitGas said: Kinda makes sense for Chaos Warriors in general! Which Chaos Warrior would want to be on music and banner-bearing duty when he could strike their foes instead? Don't all the banner bearers walk backwards so the general can see his own image/logo on the banner? That's what I do with my choas warriors anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Sleboda said: I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think my preferences should limit you. I never said or implied any such thing. I was merely adding to the conversation by raising my view and noting how we, as hobbyists, have diverse opinions (which is a good thing, I believe). Also, your conclusion (not quoted) that my preference leaves you with a non-purchase option is false. You can still convert monopose models more easily than I can ... fabricate ... cloned models. You just have to chop. I have to sculpt. Either way, we both are doing more work than we prefer. Where on earth does your bizarre conclusion that you have to sculpt models come from? Assuming something as simple as a variable arm, the only work you need to do is glue the arms in the same position. If that is more work than you are willing to do then... good gracious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still-young Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said: Where on earth does your bizarre conclusion that you have to sculpt models come from? Assuming something as simple as a variable arm, the only work you need to do is glue the arms in the same position. If that is more work than you are willing to do then... good gracious. Not if they want every model in the unit to be the same. There isn’t enough of the same pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) It's perhaps worth pointing out that the Nighthaunt multi part kits offer no posing, no loadouts and almost no bits. Having assembled a full army the only benefit I have over pushfit is that I could leave a few masks of the bladegheists. Perhaps this in part is because they have positioned nighthaunt as an entry army, if so it seems feasible that they might be doing something similar with some of the chaos range. A box full of chunky spikey lads that can be pushed together seems like it would appeal to both kids dragging parents around the store as well as those who value ease of assembly over customisation. Edit: This wasn't intended as a complaint more to point out multipart doesn't inherently bring benefits, despite being a nearly entirely monopose army I dont think you would actually notice on the tabletop. Hexwraiths buck the trend of the rest of the army but are also from an earlier period. Edited November 5, 2019 by Spears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still-young Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Spears said: It's perhaps worth pointing out that the Nighthaunt multi part kits offer no posing, no loadouts and almost no bits. Having assembled a full army the only benefit I have over pushfit is that I could leave a few masks of the bladegheists. Perhaps this in part is because they have positioned nighthaunt as an entry army, if so it seems feasible that they might be doing something similar with some of the chaos range. A box full of chunky spikey lads that can be pushed together seems like it would appeal to both kids dragging parents around the store as well as those who value ease of assembly over customisation. Edit: This wasn't intended as a complaint more to point out multipart doesn't inherently bring benefits. Hexwraiths buck the trend of the rest of the army but are also from an earlier period. I think it’s mainly because of the dynamism and design on the Nighthaunt. When the majority of the model is flowing cloaks, it’s hard to make it posable while looking realistic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EccentricCircle Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I wouldn't be surprised if they want to ultimately have an easy to build, entry level army for each grand alliance. So far Stormcast and Nighthaunt have been the go to "hero" factions for this edition of the game, but it would make sense to have Chaos Warriors be as accessible. What they'd do for Destruction being the open question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kirjava13 said: Where on earth does your bizarre conclusion that you have to sculpt models come from? Assuming something as simple as a variable arm, the only work you need to do is glue the arms in the same position. If that is more work than you are willing to do then... good gracious. If a sprue has, for example, five bodies, five left arms, etc. and I want five identical guys, I can't just pose them to get five identical guys. I need to either buy five boxes or sculpt parts. A box with five identical models can be converted into five unique poses. Edited November 5, 2019 by Sleboda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I just got an idea: for those who already have the classic knights, buy & use the new ones as varanguards! Maybe with a bit of kitbash? I don't see the point of the varanguards price: you get 3 riders. At the SAME price (even LESS !) you got the new SC! with 5 knights, a big hero on monster and 10 new warriors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernalslayer Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 7 hours ago, Sharkbelly said: And remember these guys? What are these beastmen? I have a few of them and don't know if they are gors/ungors and what year they came out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charleston Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) Do you guys think a return of the Forsaken Kit is possible? Thoose models are actually quite cool, even superior to old warriors in terms of dynamic from what I saw. It would be an easy grab for gw to reintroduce them. I actually never understood why the kit had to go in first place Edited November 5, 2019 by Charleston 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverstu Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Just catching up- these recent releases look great- the Warcry monsters are lovely. The new chaos warriors are surprising- mainly because they kept the classic design with just a bit of a refresh in term software posing- they look they will fit in with the old plastics really well. The thing about monopose isI think generally it lets them do better sculpts, multipart/pose kits probably limits the sculpts to allow customisation - it certainly looks that way with the night haunt stuff- the sculpts are quality and they clearly pushed that rather than the ability to customise them. With the old monopose plastics [where is was a single sculpt] I found I could add variety by cutting at wrist joints and twisting weapon poses and head swaps can be done too. Interesting if they start making start collecting single pose sets -especially if they are supported by full kits- it would add to the variety of sculpts in the ranges. They must be doing it to improve accessibility and I also reckon they are easier to produce, but I definitely wouldn't say no to a KO one with new sculpts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDM Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Charleston said: Do you guys think a return of the Forsaken Kit is possible? Thoose models are actually quite cool, even superior to old warriors in terms of dynamic from what I saw. It would be an easy grab for gw to reintroduce them. I actually never understood why the kit had to go in first place I always liked them but the price seemed expensive at the time. I bought a couple of sets because of all the mutations which I need for my mutant rabble in a IA13 lost and the damned force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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