The Rumour Thread

[RuneBrush]

21 hours ago, sandlemad said:

I was under the impression that this had already happened early this year, that all 40k and AoS rules for FW models were being produced by those games' respective teams. I remember this because the news came relatively shortly after news of FW taking on a rules writer (or developing the role, at least, might be misremembering) specifically for AoS and it seemed like something of a 180.

Either way Specialist Games becoming more independent seems very plausible. Necromunda, Blood Bowl and especially Adeptus Titanicus all seem to have been larger successes than GW proper anticipated. That's almost certainly down to their caution and underestimating demand but still, it clearly led to SG getting the green light for Aeronautica Imperialis and further expansion would not at all surprise me.

It was only 40k and AoS rules that got passed over to the respective design studios, FW still is responsible for the entire Age of Darkness game/ruleset.

16 hours ago, Furuzzolo said:

Lets keep the topic on "CoS, date speculation and extreme anger." Pls.

Fixed it for you 😉

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

It was only 40k and AoS rules that got passed over to the respective design studios, FW still is responsible for the entire Age of Darkness game/ruleset.

I think it is best for the rules team to be in one business (Warhammer in this case), it makes making them work well with current and future rulesets a lot easier to do.

[Scurvydog]

GW taking over FW rules is a healthy change. FW seems to always have a disconnect, my gaming group flat out refuse 40k FW as they just seem to power creep a lot and perceived as cheese in all my years of gaming. On the opposite end we have the AoS FW rules after AoS 2.0, and oh boy did the nerf hammer hit hard there, especially with the models which actually fit in rather well with their armies, such as the mourngul, giant squig, Whaagh Idol and Dread Saurian, while the rather random destruction aligned Magma Dragon is still incredibly powerful and carried mixed destruction lists to most of their competetive victories, while not really fitting into any theme.

Clear ruling of wether they are allowed or not seems to be an issue for many people I have talked to as well. If GW takes over the ruling, this will hopefully become a lot clearer and either add some of these models into books, or allow them to add them in Errata to the core books, which should help reduce the weird outsider feeling they have right now.

[mikethefish]

1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

GW taking over FW rules is a healthy change. FW seems to always have a disconnect, my gaming group flat out refuse 40k FW as they just seem to power creep a lot and perceived as cheese in all my years of gaming. On the opposite end we have the AoS FW rules after AoS 2.0, and oh boy did the nerf hammer hit hard there, especially with the models which actually fit in rather well with their armies, such as the mourngul, giant squig, Whaagh Idol and Dread Saurian, while the rather random destruction aligned Magma Dragon is still incredibly powerful and carried mixed destruction lists to most of their competetive victories, while not really fitting into any theme.

Mostly agree but the Idol is in no way nerfed.  It's well worth it's points, as long as you include units that can take advantage of it's buffs (ie - Gloomspite armies with Stabbas and Shamans, etc)

[Kronos]

@sandlemad wholeheartedly agree, losing the Rhinox should have been a crime. Seriously stunning unit, so much more ‘Ogor” in feel and flavour that the Tusks. I don’t hate the tusks, but.. c’maan. 

[Skreech Verminking]

Well looks like we finally know something about gotrak.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/05/gotrek-vs-the-mortal-realms/

not really happy that he got the keyword duardin instead of dwarf but well at least the rules are fitting for him😂

[Cambot1231]

Hmmn I think I may have found a model to replace the 500 points of squatted models for my order army

[Furuzzolo]

I mean, a bit costly for an Unforged replacement but I'm not going to argue...

[michu]

@Furuzzolo Unforged saw how powerful Gotrek is and he went hiding.

[Sleboda]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well looks like we finally know something about gotrak.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/05/gotrek-vs-the-mortal-realms/

not really happy that he got the keyword duardin instead of dwarf but well at least the rules are fitting for him😂

Ugh. As much as I have traditionally hated "permission only" units in games, if any model ever deserved it, this is the one. Fingers crossed he's narrative only.

[willange]

1 minute ago, Sleboda said:

Ugh. As much as I have traditionally hated "permission only" units in games, if any model ever deserved it, this is the one. Fingers crossed he's narrative only.

Why?  He seems fine as long as you either kite or use some chaff.  For objective-based scenarios (especially with more than 2 objectives), this character is likely to struggle.

[GeneralZero]

I think that such an OP char in CC is not really good for the game. Yes, he is fragile against ranged and/or spells, but he is really too much of a random choice in an army. 500pts is big in a 2K army an you have to make him CC to a worthy target which is not easy because everyone now knows that he's a CC beast!

Edited September 5, 2019 by GeneralZero

[Aelfric]

He's an unstoppable fighter with movement 4 and no ability to teleport - seems fair.

[Overread]

In other news the GW store now shows the mercenaries and monsters for Warcry 

Though interestingly the Chimera isn't yet shown, but many of the allies and monsters already are so you can get some idea of what you might want to grab at the weekend if you were after some allies. 

[Sleboda]

25 minutes ago, willange said:

Why? 

Putting aside his insane killing power and survivability, there's the no-limit ally rule. It's about as clear a cash-grab-overriding-balance as I've seen from The New GW (which heretofore had been really solid in their efforts to be fair).

What makes allies fair is their scalability based on points. If I can play a 700 point game, for example, and minimize my army then squeeze him in, it's going to make for unfun games. But, wheee, he'll surely sell to every Order player. Hell be like Bomb Warrior or Secret Hunter in Hearthstone - present in half your games and not at all enjoyable to play against.

Not a fan.

Frankly, I'm not a Gotrek fan on any level (though the model is pretty), but rules like he has are really, really disappointing.

Give him standard allies rules and remove the immunity to things that autokill (which is usually the big balancing factor on Super Characters), and he would be fine. As is, I'll probably just tip my king when I see him on the table rather than go through the boring exercise of playing a supposed "game" against him.

 

Also, it's silly that the better plan to kill him is to pepper him with skinks than to shoot him with a laser cannon. That's not even enjoyable from a lore standpoint. If he's gonna finally die the death he craves, make it epic, not a thousand pin pricks.

[Deepkin]

I mean, its a 520 point 4" move model with 8 wounds.

Do you also tip your king when you play against Gristlegore multi-fight blender monster? Or Khorne bloodthirster super-friends? Or any number of annoying smashy model combos (almost all of which can move further, faster and with the ability to take advantage of oh-so-fun army abilities and so on)?

This isnt even getting into things like "all plague monks all the time," "hearthguard berzerker-star," and other such things.

Honestly, he's a cool model with awesome lore and rules. Why not try playing against him a little bit before deciding "ugh broken, bad, game ruined"?

[swarmofseals]

Mathhammer-wise, Gotrek is defensively inefficient against damage 1 attacks, moderately efficient against damage 2 attacks and very efficient against damage 3+ attacks. He is offensively inefficient when he attacks once and efficient (but not extremely so) when he attacks twice.

He's powerful enough to not be completely unplayable, but I just can't imagine him being "broken" or "overpowered" at all so long as you are actually playing a real battleplan.

I guess I can see how he wouldn't be fun to play against, but he is far from unkillable and can be countered in a lot of different ways.  It seems to me that if this character is unfun then you must have a pretty narrow definition of fun.

@Sleboda I very much doubt that this guy will be played by half of all Order players. Allies aren't really balanced by their point limits, they are balanced by the fact that they don't benefit from allegiance abilities (the core source of power for nearly every competitive army). Allies have barely been used at all at the tournament level, and I don't think that this is going to change that. Speed is the single most important thing in AOS, and this warscroll is basically the slowest warscroll in the game. If half your Order opponents drop 520 on a model that will spend at least half the game doing nothing, then you are going to win a lot of games of AOS. 

 

[zilberfrid]

18 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

Mathhammer-wise, Gotrek is defensively inefficient against damage 1 attacks, moderately efficient against damage 2 attacks and very efficient against damage 3+ attacks. He is offensively inefficient when he attacks once and efficient (but not extremely so) when he attacks twice.

He's powerful enough to not be completely unplayable, but I just can't imagine him being "broken" or "overpowered" at all so long as you are actually playing a real battleplan.

I guess I can see how he wouldn't be fun to play against, but he is far from unkillable and can be countered in a lot of different ways.  It seems to me that if this character is unfun then you must have a pretty narrow definition of fun.

@Sleboda I very much doubt that this guy will be played by half of all Order players. Allies aren't really balanced by their point limits, they are balanced by the fact that they don't benefit from allegiance abilities (the core source of power for nearly every competitive army). Allies have barely been used at all at the tournament level, and I don't think that this is going to change that. Speed is the single most important thing in AOS, and this warscroll is basically the slowest warscroll in the game. If half your Order opponents drop 520 on a model that will spend at least half the game doing nothing, then you are going to win a lot of games of AOS. 

 

I would get him to have a wildly different game every once in a while.

I think it would have been better to have him ignore 1 damage wounds than to have him ignore higher damage wounds*. That way you would pit monsters against him, not chaff or machine guns.

 

* Very much simplified, no balancing in rules yet. Say give him a 1+ ward save with a -1 per damage.

[Overread]

I think the big trick with Gotrek is to not throw your heroes/monsters etc... at him. Players who try and take him out one on one with a bloodthirster and such are going to lose because that's just what Gotrek is built to kill. Those who instead ignore and run away from him or who avoid him entirely or who mob him or otherwise just slow him down will deal with him just fine.

He's powerful but he's also only one thing on the table. A bit like the Queen in a game of Chess. Yes its powerful, but at the same time its only one of many parts of the army. 

[Kurrilino]

With a Warscroll like this i am wondering how the new Archaon Wascroll will look like.

2+ saves against wounds and mortal wounds with a 42 wound characteristics?

 

This is a strange choice indeed

[krabb]

19 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

With a Warscroll like this i am wondering how the new Archaon Wascroll will look like.

2+ saves against wounds and mortal wounds with a 42 wound characteristics?

 

This is a strange choice indeed

And a 2" move 

[Landohammer]

He is pretty bonkers, but he is going to spend turns 1-3 literally doing nothing, and thats a huge disadvantage regardless of matchup. However if I knew ahead of time that an event's scenarios were going to be low objective count (ie Knife to the Heart) then I might consider taking him. 

He can sit on an objective while you send the entirety of your army after the second one. If your opponent has no way of dealing with him (which most armies probably can't) then the best they can hope for is a draw or minor win. 

[Zanzou]

Shoulder Plate of Edassa means that his Wound count is actually the equivalent of 24.... 24 wounds of which you can only ever do at most 1 dmg per spell/ ability attack to...

 

24 effective wounds, can activate twice a turn, re-roll hit and wounds (of which, hit rolls of 6 inflict bonus d6 immediate mortal wounds).  

Power creep not toxic at all for this game.  People on this forum will always just say to run away and throw away chaff for free every turn and that somehow makes the gameplay balanced and fun.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Zanzou

[Overread]

Yes so you don't throw units with high damage abilities at him. Instead you throw units with lots of attacks at him; or you fire ranged shots at him; or slow him down. At 4 inches most units can just run away from him. Whilst he will beat most things in close combat in a straight fight one on one, he can still be beaten. Also don't forget his second attack wave only works if he's within 3 inches. If you have a large enough unit you could deny him a second chance by removing casualties so that he moves out of range. 

 

Also don't forget he's 500 points; that's half of a 1K army and a healthy 1/4 of a 2K army. So that's a big chunk of points invested into a single model. 

He's not unstoppable you've just got to work out the puzzle of how to tackle him, which might mean just sacrificing units at him to tangle him up so he can't get at anything good; or ignoring the flank he's on; running away; or chipping down his health with spells and ranged fire. 

 

If you just charge up a great bit zombie dragon or Star Dragon or such at him then, yeah, chances are he will win most times. But that's him doing what he's designed to be doing and, as an opponent, you've got to avoid that easy trap and instead work at denying him access to those nice big targets. 

[azmodan]

17 minutes ago, Overread said:

 

If you just charge up a great bit zombie dragon or Star Dragon or such at him then, yeah, chances are he will win most times. But that's him doing what he's designed to be doing and, as an opponent, you've got to avoid that easy trap and instead work at denying him access to those nice big targets. 

The problem is if You charge both of them he will win more then 80 of the Time.

Its not the numbers on warscroll that bring the complains its the feeling of hopelessness.

No matter what You do he will kill You.

Exacly like Keeper of secrets.. It grinds, attack firsts and even if You kill her, he comes back.

We know it is possiblle to win vs both its just really unfun when You dont.