Scurvydog Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Been thinking for a long time that death was in for an overhaul, especially in regard to Nagash himself. Perhaps this is also due to no new freeguild army, but the current mismash of death factions, wityh deathrattle and deadwalkers, just seem horribly outmatched compared to factions and models made specifically for AoS. The armies of the other gods, like stormcasts for Sigmar, Sylvaneth for Allarielle, DoK for Mortahi etc, all are super powered murder machines, far outpacing any regular joe. I feel they dropped the ball on nighthaunt being that counter in the super soldier arms race. The above factions are all made in the image of their god, with a theme, design, armor etc. all fitting the god, or even the models of the god (avatar?). Nagash only has this with his Morghasts, and both Nagash, Arkhan and the Morghasts follow the same design pattern, with a tomb kings vibe, but distinctly its own. It would make all kinds of sense for death to get their super elite faction, possibly still directly led by Nagash, with morghasts and other constructs forming the bulk. The design of Nagash's armor is also on point, so an army taking up that look and making it its own would probably look really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowki Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 As not being really into Lore, I cannot really judge on whether an Egyptian theme would fit AOS or not , though I would expect as Nazbit says, that the way the mortal realms are setup, they can basically fit in anything, especially because of Stormvaults. But if they ever return, I may hope they still have Ancient Egyptian Aesthetics as that is what make them so attractive in the first place in my opinion. I don't see how a returned TK (or whatever their name will be.) refers to TK at all, without having at least a somewhat Egyptian/Desert theme. I am not saying they need to have Egypt written on their foreheads in hieroglyphs, nor does there need to be sphinxes or even pyramids, but it has so much else to offer, so much possibilities to distinguish it from other (death) armies. The cult of death, mummies, deathmasks, animals like crocodiles, cobra's, scarabs, scorpions, big statues, graves, traps etc etc. No need for skeletons though imho. Don't get me wrong, I am totally fine if they don't return if they don't fit, but if they do... By the way., aren't there a lot of other faction that actually do have similar references to real wold ancient societies or WHFB. I think of i.e. Seraphon, that still have strong hints of an Aztec (or similar) culture, DOK is basically Medusa/Greek. What is different for TK? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Lowki said: By the way., aren't there a lot of other faction that actually do have similar references to real wold ancient societies or WHFB. I think of i.e. Seraphon, that still have strong hints of an Aztec (or similar) culture, DOK is basically Medusa/Greek. What is different for TK? That's a fair point and I do agree with what others have said, anything can fit in the mortal realms, its one of the biggest strengths of AoS. I think it's more I want new stuff! Regardless I'm looking forward to what comes out 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPjr Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Infinite space to just go back and do what we've done before sounds like a poor waste of that infinite space to me. I'm honestly torn on Tomb Kings, I have zero emotional attachment to them beyond a vague 'yeah some fun sculpts, I guess', the Egyptian theme was likewise fun but is also so tied to a specific time and location that I can totally see why they jettisoned it when making the unfortunately not particularly clean break with AoS. Exact same point goes for Bretonnia, and honestly I'd be surprised if they wouldn't have joyfully binned the old Empire models too if it hadn't been the main focus/setting of the old world and so you'd ****** off too many players at launch. The rumours are interesting and it does seem pretty clear something Death related is coming down the pipeline but the idea they'll just resurrect/re-release old models seems ludicrous to me, even if they're half decent models (and yes some of them are very cool) it would be such a retrogressive step. And sadly if I'm any judge of character doing that wouldn't appease the loudest % of TK fans anyway, they'd just be incensed they were being fobbed off with old models and message boards would echo to pitiful cries of 'yet another slap in the face'. But then designing a whole new range based on TKs would seem equally fraught, it wouldn't be TK'y enough, or the lore wouldn't be right, there'd be no Settra or some other nonsense, plus we just got a big new Death faction last year, a 2nd one just a year later with enough new models to be a proper release seems a little unlikely. Even worse I suspect it would just empower some people's already galaxy level sense of entitlement and we'd end up with even more whining from the kind of personality black holes that post 'Bring Back Fantasy' under NEARLY EVERY ****** SINGLE Age of Sigmar Instagram post or in comments in hell spaces like BoLS. Most significantly though, for me, the latest new Skeleton models that we've seen, The Sepulchral Guard, have zero TK aesthetic to them and all the Black Library fiction that has explored death forces over the last couple of years (and that's a hell of a lot) has featured a hell of a lot of Deathrattle and Deadwalkers, two existing under-developed armies that are still there and have at least a decent amount of models to start off and build upon. Of course that's not to preclude that an augmented Deathrattle legion of some kind could incorporate a few larger bone constructs as a nod to TKs, hell I'd love that alongside bone/zombie giants and the like but that's probably the extent that I can forsee. Also all the comments about the new scenery being nods to Egypt, never got that myself at all. Raised daises and mini ziggurats don't scream Egypt to me, just nods to obvious classical antiquity. Even the Griff statues feel much more Persian/Babylonian/Mesopotamian to me but still just fairly generic fantasy (in a decent way). BUT for all that I could of course be hugely wrong, and if they did bring back TKs in some way I'd be interested to see how and what they look like, hell I'd no doubt buy a load but a part of me would definitely feel like it was a backwards step at a point when the game is really taking off and the new worlds are being fleshed out. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyriakin Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, JPjr said: BUT for all that I could of course be hugely wrong, and if they did bring back TKs in some way I'd be interested to see how and what they look like, hell I'd no doubt buy a load but a part of me would definitely feel like it was a backwards step at a point when the game is really taking off and the new worlds are being fleshed out Did you feel that way when Nighthaunt - which are basically bedsheet ghosts - were released? Also, the Deadwalkers (zombies) and Deathrattle (medieval Castlevania-esque skeletons) you mentioned are as generic - and perhaps even more so - than Egyptian mummy-type stuff. Furthermore, I would hate to see an army that "builds upon" the current GW Dire Wolves and Zombies, as they are some of the worst sculpts in the current fantasy range. Hell, even the much-mentioned Undead Pirates are quite a cliche - albeit one not yet seen in GW's products so far. Edited June 6, 2019 by Kyriakin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 AoS is always going to have the Old World Influence. It will retain it unless GW decides to throw out all the original sculpts and start totally fresh. Which they chose not to do so its going to retain some vibes from the original. Of course as time goes on (and we are talking decades here) they will update sculpts and revamp armies. The updated designs might well vary quite a bit - the Flesh Eaters might well get little crowns of bone and robes of skin and the like - all fitting closer their lore and warped view whilst changing them form the basic ghoul models that they are currently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPjr Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kyriakin said: Did you feel that way when Nighthaunt - which are basically bedsheet ghosts - were released? Personally no because with Nighthaunt it felt like they were expanding and delivering on a concept that had never really had it's fair due and was just a side thought. If you're going to have a DEATH/undead faction then you have several major archetypes to play with, Vampires, Skeletons, Zombies/Ghouls and Ghosts. To have the ghost side of that limited to what? Spirit Hosts, Cairn Wraith and Banshee is obviously doing a disservice to what should be one of the most interesting and prevalent aspects of the undead. So expanding that and giving them their own aesthetic, and of course having them released as an interesting foil to a magic focused Stormcast faction, made a lot of sense. It then helped, of course, that they absolutely nailed it with the Nighthaunt range. 10 minutes ago, Kyriakin said: Also, Deadwalker (zombies) and Deathrattle (medival Cestlevania skeletons) are as generic - and perhaps more so - Egyptian mummy-type stuff. And I wouldn't disagree. Now here I'm going totally off on my own thoughts but personally I feel a little too much has been made about AoS being about totally unique, un-copyable concepts. It's hard to explain but to me it feels like, aside from giving things fancy new names, what they're trying to do is in a sense create malleable templates within which people come up with cool interesting stuff. So you have Deepkin, Sylvaneth or Gloomspite etc, which have a somewhat unique (to a small degree) identity and base/generic aesthetic which can then be adjusted to create your own army and look by choosing their realm or the city or whatever that they come from. With an Egyptian themed army you've basically said these guys are from here and this is what they look like, totally fine in a limited smaller environment like the WHFB universe but at odds with what we've seen in AoS. And as I said TKs, like Brets, are so rooted in a specific location and mythology that strip that away and you lose most of their character anyway, you keep it and it just feels like a weird backwards step and I personally worry sets a bad precedent. But as I said if they turned round and released an almost TK army and the models were cool I'd buy them, just like I will if they release a Deathrattle army with cool models. I just feel that DR makes more sense, AT THE MOMENT, in the world that they've been creating. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_master288 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Thiagoma said: I have a hard time with the concept around the "fit or doesnt fit with AoS". I'm happy someone else said it. I can't believe that people are okay with losing factions/armies/models just because it "doesn't fit in AoS". Are you serious right now?? 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 26 minutes ago, the_master288 said: I'm happy someone else said it. I can't believe that people are okay with losing factions/armies/models just because it "doesn't fit in AoS". Are you serious right now?? I mis spoke when I said doesn't fit in AoS, as its been stated and I agree with, anything can fit in AoS. I just think it would be cooler to have something new and fresh. The next evolution of the tomb kings so to speak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alghero81 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I have seen Katophranes mentioned multiple times but to me they don’t fit the “old allies” archetype as they actually defiled Nagash and even worse been punished for eternity in the most horrible way... also they would not be under Lake Lethis but in Shadespire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_master288 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 11 minutes ago, Ogregut said: I mis spoke when I said doesn't fit in AoS, as its been stated and I agree with, anything can fit in AoS. I just think it would be cooler to have something new and fresh. The next evolution of the tomb kings so to speak Sorry, I didn't mean for it to sound like I was calling you out specifically. What bothers me the most is that there are people who truly believe that GW should be gutting factions, removing them from the world and play, and constantly creating new factions. I heavily disagree with this strategy as it's counterintuitive what the game wants to achieve. GW wants lifelong commitment to the hobby, and as such, I think that when they dump and/or no longer support factions, it's a giant middle finger to those passionate fans of that army. People don't want to be forced to switch to a new army, they want to love what they have and continue to play what they love. With that said, I'm totally on board with GW releasing new factions, however, I don't want it to affect the support for the factions that they have already released. I think new armies can bring in new players as well as breathe new life into the games evolving meta. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FractalRain Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, alghero81 said: I have seen Katophranes mentioned multiple times but to me they don’t fit the “old allies” archetype as they actually defiled Nagash and even worse been punished for eternity in the most horrible way... also they would not be under Lake Lethis but in Shadespire I think people mention Katophranes, because some of the art is suggestive of TK, like this: Might be a great way to add some TK flair to Deathrattle. Edited June 6, 2019 by FractalRain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I think New vs. Old is a bit of a false dichotomy. There is plenty of scope for BOTH New and Old. It's a balance, and you can maybe be critical of the balance, but I think there's room for all of: new (Stormcasts, Nighthaunt, Idoneth, etc.), a mix of new and old (Daughters of Khaine, various Daemons), re-skinned old (Bonesplitters, FEC), and straight-up old (Skaven). If Tomb Kings is real, that's fine by me. If the next ten armies are all old stuff re-skinned, not happy. But if 3 of the next ten are re-skins, 4 are brand new, and 3 are mixed old/new, hooray for us! 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPjr Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, xking said: Where is the one for this week then? It's not every week. What they said/meant was over the summer/next couple of months they would do several Forbidden Powers focused weeks. So the first one we got some more lore, two stories about the battle on Lake Lethis and a Battleplan to go with the story. So I assume in a week or two we'll get the next FP week, again with a couple of stories, some background and related Battleplan, either expanding on the battle going on in Stygxx or I think more likely looking at another Stormvault with different force battling it out. Edited June 6, 2019 by JPjr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollowHills Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I doubt we would get Tomb Kings as in a re-release of the old sets. Most of those old kits look pretty dated and they certainly don't stand up to the recent quality of releases. I'm also not convinced that "skeletons but different" is what they would want to go for with a death release either. If there is any credence to these rumours I suspect what people are calling "new Tomb Kings" will be an army that bears some resemblance to old Tomb Kings, perhaps a death army with an ancient or antiquated style, but entirely new. Just like the rumour of "cthulthu elves" was for deepkin, but when deepkin came out they were quite different to what people had imagined from the rumours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aden Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) The argument has been made that GW is under no obligation to support anything, which is very true but I think it flat out has more negatives to squat support. It's made me wary of which collections I collect because who knows if it'll get dropped in the future too? And it can demoralize the fan base. Even if its not your army, maybe you lose one of your best hobby buds because his collection is plain disregarded. Considering the size and success of the company I think it's a elaborate (read: infuriating) marketing ploy for a top secret dev project I want Byzantine Undead! Make vampires blush with how bougie their desert cousins are. Edited June 6, 2019 by Aden 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, HollowHills said: I doubt we would get Tomb Kings as in a re-release of the old sets. Most of those old kits look pretty dated and they certainly don't stand up to the recent quality of releases. I'm also not convinced that "skeletons but different" is what they would want to go for with a death release either. If there is any credence to these rumours I suspect what people are calling "new Tomb Kings" will be an army that bears some resemblance to old Tomb Kings, perhaps a death army with an ancient or antiquated style, but entirely new. Just like the rumour of "cthulthu elves" was for deepkin, but when deepkin came out they were quite different to what people had imagined from the rumours. I don’t know: some of them look quit amazing, even for their age 13 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiagoma Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 24 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: some of them look quit amazing, even for their age Those are not even old really. They are among the last plastics from WHFB. Not to mention that the last 2 have assembly options for more than a single unit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alghero81 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, xking said: Where is the one for this week then? “Over the next few months, we’ll be bringing you themed weeks that explore different sides of the war for the Stormvaults, providing a wider perspective on the conflict and offering more hints as to how the future may unfold. Every Forbidden Power week will bring with it new fiction exploring new corners of the Mortal Realms, plus a battleplan allowing you to recreate conflicts therein.” Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/19/forbidden-power-the-story-continuesgw-homepage-post-4/ My interpretation is that every few weeks there will be one dedicated to a theme and this will continue for months. If what Tom says it’s true then I guess it will continue until the new death army release potentially in October... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alghero81 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Whatever this new faction if skeletons / constructs look like I well hope they will finally include other races skeletons. I never really liked the idea all these undead get “rebuilt” on image of the summoner, so often human-like, while in one of the stories there’s a giant skeleton aquatic monster attacking an Idoneth enclave... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 22 minutes ago, alghero81 said: Whatever this new faction if skeletons / constructs look like I well hope they will finally include other races skeletons. I never really liked the idea all these undead get “rebuilt” on image of the summoner, so often human-like, while in one of the stories there’s a giant skeleton aquatic monster attacking an Idoneth enclave... I think it was a Dragon zombi that fall and when eels were taking apart it wakes up and starts the party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_master288 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 59 minutes ago, Aden said: The argument has been made that GW is under no obligation to support anything, which is very true but I think it flat out has more negatives to squat support. It's made me wary of which collections I collect because who knows if it'll get dropped in the future too? And it can demoralize the fan base. Even if its not your army, maybe you lose one of your best hobby buds because his collection is plain disregarded. You just smashed the nail so hard on the head, it's all the way through the board. It blows my mind that more people don't see this as a problem for the long term health of the game. It doesn't matter if we're talking AoS/40k/insert whatever here, it's just strictly the plain fact that people will become upset if their favorite faction is just disregarded by the company handling said game. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, the_master288 said: You just smashed the nail so hard on the head, it's all the way through the board. It blows my mind that more people don't see this as a problem for the long term health of the game. It doesn't matter if we're talking AoS/40k/insert whatever here, it's just strictly the plain fact that people will become upset if their favorite faction is just disregarded by the company handling said game. It really doesn’t matter if people think of things. in the end it’s the company suffering from loses, and not us people who love squeak-talking about stuff. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) And here i am waiting for some AoS humans instead of the Empire range. Hopefully Bretonnia but in AOS will be back Edited June 6, 2019 by Sete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Sete said: And here i am waiting for some AoS humans instead of the Empire range. Hopefully Bretonnia but in AOS will be back Oh they are dominating the tables on miniwargaming right now. (fantastic job to the guy who played against mat and Steve) Edited June 6, 2019 by Skreech Verminking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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