What fid you guys think about new merc units

[Ahn-ket]

Hi 

As mentioned above what you think about the 8 new merc unit coming with ghb19 in two weeks

What merc unit will be good additions for LoN FEC or NH

[Charlo]

ARTILLERY FOR DEATH!!!!

Organ Gun, Cannon and Engineer is a solid little detachment for some ranged threat. Sadly two cannons and an Engineer doesn't fit the 400pts allies limit (unless we see changes in GHB19).

The Skeletons/ Zombies might hilariously be useful for even LoN too, all the buffs from the book affect them and they get permanent +1A, which usually costs a command point... For only costing your first CP.

Otherwise, Giants are a fun Behemoth.

[JackStreicher]

A cannon, a organ cannon and a Gyrocopter 👌🏻

Come here ’ya pesky little Terrorgheists.

 

though 2 Organ Hund hitting on 2s are just evil.

Edited June 11, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Kramer]

Great for a narrative addition in my lists, don’t really think it will change the ‘tournament meta’. But still great that they didn’t limit the concept to one way of play. 

[Ahn-ket]

I will do a death converted  freeguild one and maybe the organ cannon one cause my death army comes from shyish so living and dead people Work together

[Evil Bob]

There are going to be some of the cross playing 40kers who strongly prefer mono-Codex armies that are going to use “soup” like a four letter word.

I love the narrative idea.  This has major potential for shaking up the competitive scene.  For good or bad, I have no clue.

With our lack of shooting the cannons jumped out.  I’m regretting selling off my Outriders years ago.  Sure I can just pull out my ghouls but sometimes there’s the urge to go cowboy.  Getting off some shots at the get-go doesn’t hurt.  Deep-strike flanking is so much harder to stop than in 40k.

[deynon]

They can be really themed units in the army. Undead mercenaries ah, I miss the skeleton one.

[warhammernerd]

Yup, soup is bad. More armies being more like each other. You can paint and convert them however you like, but popular opinion is this has been death of 40k and similar feelings are true about effect on Malifaux. Keep armies distinct, that’s the joy of the game. Somethings should be worse at something’s and others better at others. Providing patches for everyone is lame sauce, IMO.

[Charlo]

1 hour ago, warhammernerd said:

Yup, soup is bad. More armies being more like each other. You can paint and convert them however you like, but popular opinion is this has been death of 40k and similar feelings are true about effect on Malifaux. Keep armies distinct, that’s the joy of the game. Somethings should be worse at something’s and others better at others. Providing patches for everyone is lame sauce, IMO.

I do agree, but, this is MUCH more limited than 40k (especially the likes of Imperium or Chaos).

• They don't get allegiance abilities, artefacts etc
• You give up a command point
• The units are specific and set - you might luck out and get something to cover a hole (like Death with some Artillery) but at 400pts it's not a lot
• Maximum of 400pts in Matched Play
• Also eat into your more versatile Allies points

[warhammernerd]

Sure, point is simply that death shouldn’t have cannons. It’s their whole schtick. And the army, top down is designed and written with a degree of internal balance, which things like this mess with. Same with all the diff armies. This messes with an already very lopsided balance. Some armies are inherently weaker in a certain area, for good reason. Armies shouldn’t be all things to all people. Chose your frickin playstyle and play an army which suits it. Rather than bash square pegs into round holes for ‘narrative - cough - b o l l o x ‘ reasons. Sure. It will be grrrreeeeeaaat

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, warhammernerd said:

Sure, point is simply that death shouldn’t have cannons. It’s their whole schtick. And the army, top down is designed and written with a degree of internal balance, which things like this mess with. Same with all the diff armies. This messes with an already very lopsided balance. Some armies are inherently weaker in a certain area, for good reason. Armies shouldn’t be all things to all people. Chose your frickin playstyle and play an army which suits it. Rather than bash square pegs into round holes for ‘narrative - cough - b o l l o x ‘ reasons. Sure. It will be grrrreeeeeaaat

Yeah with you up to a point. I agree that it makes it harder to balance, it makes armies play less unique, less one play style... but if your main concern is I want to create a narrative army, balance isn’t the motivation. So who cares about the balance consequences? 

You are calling people out by mixing things up to fit your argument. If you call people out on including guns in a death list for narrative reasons... balance isn’t an argument. (And if you read black pyramid you’d know it’s also a narratively down by GW before)

if you are calling people out because you feel they do it for the wins... well tough t i t t i e. GW is giving people the option for mercenaries within their limits so it’s fair  play there as well. 

So basically call out GW if you don’t like it, not the people using it. But again on a personal note I do agree I wouldn’t have chosen to make it matched play. Because 1 it creates balancing problems and 2 to prevent said problems the mercenaries will be more limited. 

[Charlo]

2 hours ago, warhammernerd said:

Sure, point is simply that death shouldn’t have cannons. It’s their whole schtick. And the army, top down is designed and written with a degree of internal balance, which things like this mess with. Same with all the diff armies. This messes with an already very lopsided balance. Some armies are inherently weaker in a certain area, for good reason. Armies shouldn’t be all things to all people. Chose your frickin playstyle and play an army which suits it. Rather than bash square pegs into round holes for ‘narrative - cough - b o l l o x ‘ reasons. Sure. It will be grrrreeeeeaaat

I'm sorry, but ten (or if they add more) twenty options of specific units with some most likely lacklustre special rules really aren't enough to fully cover weaknesses - especially when limited to 400pts and potentially gibbing lists by removing the first command point.

Most of the current mercenary companies aren't even useful or viable in a hyper competetive setting where the balance matters most:

• Sons of the Lichemaster - maybe the best one if you take a big block of skellies and a necro, even then they are hardly as out outside of  LoN.
• Grugg Brothers - cheap-ish behemoths with OKAY stats. Most armies have better and more synergystic ones anyway.
• Order of the Blood-drenched Rose - surprisingly decent, but easily outmaneuvers and very vulnerable to rend. Also overcosted, especially outside of allegiance.
• Nimyard’s Rough-Riders - ....lol. Maybe some use in their mobility but little more than a distraction.
• The Blacksmoke Battery - The one everyone is talking about. Covers the biggest hole in non-ORDER armies where shooting is mostly rare. Solid but still only two cannons and a copter or one cannon, one organ gun and an engineer. Warmachines also VERY weak to having crewmen slain.
• Skroug’s Menagerie - less info than others, but most likely garbage. 
• Rampagers - if they had guaranteed 6" move could be meta defining as a screen. Instead they could move 1" and be a total waste. Cheap though! However most armies have hordes built-in or as allies without CP consequence.
• The Gutstuffers - If your army has no heavy infantry, could be decent fast bully unit (run & charge with re-roll to charge) but unsure if worth a CP... Best you're getting is 4 Ogors in matched play...

The Fyreslayers and FEC mercs are probably better because of the sheer freedom they bring, though I doubt we'll see more like this and I expect them to be heavily FAQ'd in light of the overwhelming responce to double Archreagents.

[Malakithe]

Wont be used for matched play by anyone probably due to the crazy limitations 

[Charlo]

Cannons went down to 140 in the GHB B)

[Qrow]

The new point changes mean you can't take a full 40 block of skeletons and a necro in a 2000 point game anymore, which is disappointing, especially as it is over the 400 limit by 10 points.

I can't really see myself taking merc options in any of my lists, but I do think it is an interesting addition to the game and I hope they expand upon it.

[Evil Bob]

6 hours ago, Charlo said:

Cannons went down to 140 in the GHB B)

Good thing for GW those are web exclusives.  CHA-CHING!

[warhammernerd]

On 6/13/2019 at 11:28 AM, Kramer said:

So basically call out GW if you don’t like it, not the people using it. But again on a personal note I do agree I wouldn’t have chosen to make it matched play. Because 1 it creates balancing problems and 2 to prevent said problems the mercenaries will be more limited. 

Yeah, was having an especially salty day. No bad towards anyone that uses it, and that goes for anything and everything I say. Its aimed at Gdub. x

[Sception]

I dont see why death shouldn't have cannons.  Every other grand alluance has sime great magic, some great shooting, some great melee, dome tough guys, sime hiardy guys, sime of everything.  Sure its f8ne for some individual subfactions to soecualize un thus or thatm but I fon't see how itvmakes sense to keave an entire grand alliance out of an entire ohase of the game.  It would certainly be easier to introduce more units without have them step on each others toes like grimghasts and bladegheists and dreadscythes and glaivewraiths do if one or two of those could have been dedicated ranged units built to harass enemies with screams instead of melee attacks.

And I see no reason why deathrattle shouldnt get to pick up the old tomb king skeleton archers and catapults.  they certainly didnt break the game back in the old days when everyone was using grand alliance allegiances.  Sure, TK stuff was strong back then, but not because of the ranged options.

So no, I don't think it's a problem that everyone gets cannons now, especially with all the restrictions on them.

[Nin Win]

I don't play matched play at all, and I like all the companies for death.  You have a mortarch who specialises in infiltrating and corrupting mortals.  I think it would be a fairly simple task for a nulahmian vampire to ensnare the mind of an engineer and some crew and cement the relationship with a bit of coin.

From a game experience perspective, there is something to be said for having at least a little something in each of the phases of the game.  I think having some guys with pistols on horseback or a cannon or two will be a good way to let death have every phase in the game.  And with Nagash's generosity, armies without wizards of their own can hire a necromancer.  Though I think most of those armies technically already had an ally wizard option.

I can't really comment on taking this stuff to win as I play with things like the Bloodseeker Palanquin.