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Snakeb1te

As my Matched Play opponent, which compromise would you accept for me to use this model?

As my Matched Play opponent, which compromise would you accept for me to use this model?  

109 members have voted

  1. 1. I'm a Wanderers player who owns the Sisters of Twilight. Is there any choice below you'd accept to allow me to use Wanderers allegiance for our regular friendly games?

    • 1) Using the model and still keeping your Wanderers allegiance would be too unfair for me to accept, so no, I'd only let you under Order.
      13
    • 2) I'd let you use the model as an ally but only for games above 2000 points because the model costs 420points which is above the allies limit.
      8
    • 3) I'd let you use the model as an ally to your Wanderers for 400 points despite the true cost of the unit being 420.
      39
    • 4) I'm a great person and I'd even let you count it as a Wanderer unit!
      47
    • 5) Other (please write below)
      3


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Posted (edited)

Hi guys I'm trying to find out what you think would be most acceptable/friendly/generous/balanced way to allowed me to use the Sisters of Twilight model. 

 

Not to bias you or anything, but I'm hoping you'd choose at least option three!

Edited by Snakeb1te

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I voted 3, but I'm biased as a Wanderers player myself. I own the model as well but it hasn't seen play since before the General's Handbook 2017 (and it's subsequent loss of the Wanderer keyword) for the exact reasons you allude to here. Shame because the model is really cool, and isn't quite worth it's 420 points anymore in today's game - it's not for competitive reasons that I want to run it.

I'm extremely familiar with the issues you're grappling with here. I would probably go Grand Alliance Order allegiance myself to run the Sisters of Twilight and some Wardancers in a list that is otherwise pure Wanderers but all my battleline (Eternal Guard/Wildwood Rangers/Sisters of the Watch) are conditional to Wanderers allegiance. I understand them not really wanting to support out of production models though. 

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I would do 3 or 4.  If this is a friendly game then I would simply have a conversation about how you can use the models that you own and really enjoy.  Friendly games should 100% be about both players having fun.  I think that should be the goal for all games, but especially so for a friendly game.  A bit of conversation before hand should easily let both players come to an agreement.

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I play tournament rules as written.  If the tournament rules would allow it, so would I.  That being said I went with option #1, but thats because all of my games are tournament games or prepping for tournament.

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You let me call myself a great person in a poll, that's a dangerous plot to get a few egos there! 

Ok, but legit, I am (personally) super laid back about this. And most importantly, it's a casual game. Given all the stuff you can do in AoS, having a Dragon character in Wanders seems very...meh. For me, if you came to a tournament with that thing, I'd be fine ruling it in, but that is a slippery slope and I would definitely poll the other contenders to double check but...you really doesn't give you an edge that you couldn't find better.

I don't know their Warscroll, maybe there is some really ridiculous thing on their, but for 420 points? There better be! And I doubt them being Wanderers changes any of that. If you are playing for a competitive tournament, then sure, you are breaking the rules, but also probably dropping your powerlevel a bit, so I would say its a wash.

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He does say it's for his regular friendly games.   I think Wanderers even with a not rules as written minor buff are still so far down from the top of the tournament curve it wouldn't matter for a prep game (and a tournament prep game against Wanderers probably isn't good practice for what you are likely to see at a competitive event.) 

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20 minutes ago, awcamawn said:

I understand them not really wanting to support out of production models though. 

I don't.  40k does. Forge World does. Forge World for Age of Sigmar even does.  I'm not saying they should be key to the army or featured in battletomes, but there's no reason to remove the keyword.  The most competitive things will always be the things featured in battletomes. Even if it's still competitive:

 A) GW can balance the points.  Again, 40k and FW do it.

B) Tournaments can make their own decisions about OOP rules

C) The unit can be converted or obtained as a collector's item.  Again, tournament decision on how to handle that but no reason for GW to get rid of the rules.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Dead Scribe said:

 

I play tournament rules as written.  If the tournament rules would allow it, so would I.  That being said I went with option #1, but thats because all of my games are tournament games or prepping for tournament.

 

This ^ .

In a friendly game I would not mind you using any model you want (as long as it is on the correct base). If it’s a tournament then it’s not up to me... I’ll play the players pack so see  what the TO says (I’d probably not attend an event that allowed proxies or had houserules but that’s my choice and that would have no effect on you)

Last bit is that matched play is not “competitive/tournament play”. Matched play rules are simply rules on list construction/standard battleplans in order to play a semi balanced game ( relative to open/narrative). Since you are looking to modify matched play list construction you are not playing matched play as presented in to book. You are playing Open play.

Edited by svnvaldez

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Option 3, but mostly because I don't know all the keyword interactions making them Wanderers would entail. If it's nothing weird, 4 is cool too. I played dead Specialist Games long enough to not really care about the official support thing ; )

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Has nobody suggested just using the Sisters as an Order Draconis Dragonlord with Reaver Bow?  The rules aren't as fancy, but it fits into an allies slot and is 100% matched play legal (I'm not sure on the matched play legality of compendium units post Warhammer Legends).

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4. This game is about fun and having a cool Hero from old days should be no issue, especially as wanderers can have hard days anyway to keep up with newer armies. Also, the sisters already cost a terrifing 420 pts so it is alreqady a huge disadvantage to field them.

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Depends entirely on the circumstances, if it's genuinely a friendly where neither of you are practising for a tournament and just round a club for a fun game, I'd be very much "knock yourself out" and let you make the decision - possibly coming to a mutual agreement (e.g. you let me run something not normally allowed, give me a triumph etc).  If it's practice for a tournament then you'd need to run it as the Grand Alliance (as no other options are matched play valid).

TL:DR - It's your game 😉

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Posted (edited)

I second Double Misfire's suggestion.  You could run it as an allied Skywarden, Phoenix, Akhelian King, Dragonlord, Archmage on Dragon, or Drakeseer, all of which are big stompies for under 400 points.  I mostly play Open Play where I would totally let you bring it and even give it the Wanderers keyword (because realistically it should have it).  But if we're playing Matched Play, we've gotta actually follow the rules, and there are a lot of totally legal options available for you to use your cool and thematic model.

EDIT: It might also be fun as a Lord-Celestant on Dracoth.

Edited by Nacnudllah

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My friend is in the same situation and when I play against him I always allow him to use all wood elves and wanderer units together as wanderers allegiance. 

Main reason is the wanderers are underpower compared to the later battletomes (thanks power creep) so it makes it a bit more fair in friendly games this way. 

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let me field Queek Headtaker And I wouldn’t mind much either if you wielded your hero in the wanderers allegiance.

as for fluff reasons and for the fun factors, I would allow it without thinking too much about it.

 

 

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IF you're playing a friendly game and you're using wanderers you're not exactly gaming for advantage.  Just use the models you want and most opponents shouldn't have a problem with it!

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Posted (edited)

In a friendly game worst case I'd let you take it as an ally if you let me take 420pts of allies. Simple as that. Best case I'd let you take it as an ally and not be bothered that its 20pts over.

Edited by zedatkinszed

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For a friendly game ? Yeah, do whatever you want. If you'd tell me before hand, I could also do the same for some army of mine, so both of us would be happy playing what we own, love and want to field.
If it was a tournament, then ofc, the answer would be no.

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I would let you count it as wanderers even in a tournament. Its not nearly as powerful as plenty of things that are totally legal. If you wanted to bend the rules with Skaven or Slannesh, I would be a lot less lenient.

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In a friendly game, definately 4. Tournament as well.

3 is odd, because it gives a point discount.

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20 minutes ago, Chikout said:

I would let you count it as wanderers even in a tournament. Its not nearly as powerful as plenty of things that are totally legal. If you wanted to bend the rules with Skaven or Slannesh, I would be a lot less lenient.

 

1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

In a friendly game, definately 4. Tournament as well.

3 is odd, because it gives a point discount.

Why whould you guys say yes in a tournament ? Do you think it's that expensive for what it does ?

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For friendly games, 4) for sure. In a more competitive environment (like a store league or similar) then 1).

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Maturin said:

 

Why whould you guys say yes in a tournament ? Do you think it's that expensive for what it does ?

No, I don't think that. I simply like the image of my regular humans gunning down a dragon, and Wanderers are not a top tier army. Even against Freeguild, they struggle, giving you a bit more options to play as you like is going to even that gap a bit. You can't proxy them to something that is in your roster either, to keep them in the game with more current rules (if that were an option, for instance if the Dragon lord was in  Wanderers, I would prefer that you did that).

If it were Tzeench with the Gaunt summoner with familiar, or a top tier army, I would be less lenient.

I also don't mind losing because I made mistakes or out of bad luck, I do mind if the game never gave me a chance at winning.

Edited by zilberfrid

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Tourney - I'd let you use it as a Dragonlord, or sorceress on black dragon or dread lord as an ally

Narrative event you can have it as an ally

Just a game Id let you use it as a wanderer along with all wood elf units because thats how it should be.

A little bit biased as I have the model and the glade lord on dragon as well and its just plain stupid that those units can't even be allies, did all the horses die in endgames or did glade riders just decide to walk everywhere? Its ridiculous then GW announces Kurnothi great looking models but not the elves we wanted I'd take any dark or wood, not a fan of high but id even take them.

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