Iain Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Hi everyone - enjoying this new forum already! Sorry if somebody has brought this up before, but does anyone else feel some of the "free stuff" you can get on Warscrolls makes some models redundant? Example #1 The Chaos Sorcerer Lord that comes with Start Collecting Slaves to Darkness. He's on foot with no sword. He should probably be 80 points or something - but he's 140 - perhaps priced as if he's on a horse with a sword? A model I'm guessing existed once but you can buy anymore. Is this where the single points value per warscroll breakdown - could GW perhaps make a few exceptions, for models like this one? Example #2 Darkshards can take dark shields and they get rerolls - no alternative options for if they didn't take them. So it's a no-brainer to glue shields on their backs even if it looks weird. Overall I'm super happy with how simple the points system is, it would just be a shame if it keeps some lovely models off the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 His combat value doesn't have a lot to do with his cost even if it might score you an extra wound now and then. I don't often need him on a horse unless I want him with a really fast unit. It's not like he can hide in a unit anymore so hanging back is just fine. Feel free to put the shields on the darkshards. I think for most there will be little keeping models they like from the table. Maybe we'll see more differentiation later, but at the moment things work pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 No one is gonna care if your units can have shields if they have no effect on your weapon options. Just say they parry or something. Horses and stuff kinda matter but my necromancer's are all on foot anyway. My vamp Lord has wings that one matter quite abit actually. Either I don't know I think it's quite fine. Edit: I think this will disappear with newer models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 The downside of horses is it is harder to keep your characters out of line of sight of enemy fire. I think that is actually pretty major Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperHappyTime Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 18 hours ago, Iain said: Overall I'm super happy No you're not. I am. 18 hours ago, Iain said: Example #2 Darkshards can take dark shields and they get rerolls - no alternative options for if they didn't take them. So it's a no-brainer to glue shields on their backs even if it looks weird. For competitive players, and they probably will have to glue them on anyway since they didn't have them before. It's kind of why I liked one of the precursor point packs because they did do all that extra math. And since it says "models" instead of "a model" does that mean I can fulfill my dream and own the horniest Dark Elf Army in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Line of sight is rarely an issue since models aren't ranked up - you need something Glottkin-sized to hide a model convincingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomedes Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I've found actually building models that blend into an army rather than stand out gives you great advantages. For example, being a Beastmen player, I need to have alot of characters around my herds, to make them killing machines. My opponents quickly realised this, so now my Beastlord and Bray Shamans are very much understated, and blend in with the crowd of 30 man units. If they ask I'll happily point them out, but it's a sneaky tactic that keeps them slightly hidden from a rival general's battle plan. Out of sight, out of mind. Cunning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjarni St. Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Well there's one case for Gaming Table Green(tm) colour schemes. Generally though indistinguishable units can give you an advantage. I constantly ran into it playing against Skaven e.g. in previous editions. All of their ****** just looked the same. Half the time I couldn't even tell which way certain units were facing. Hero? Skavenslave? Plague Monk? No idea. Should be less of an issue nowadays, with units not being solid brown squares of hunchbacked varmints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minkster Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I would say the chaos sorcerer Lord is pointed pretty well as he is the best point for pound magic user due to his oracular visions which is an amazing ability and his demonic power spell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 12 hours ago, Nico said: Line of sight is rarely an issue since models aren't ranked up - you need something Glottkin-sized to hide a model convincingly. That's not my experience of play. It's quite easy to hide a human wizard behind a line of Stormcast unless the shooting opponent is tall. But then make my group have house ruled this a bit - we say you must be able to see a reasonable amount of the model to shoot at it (not just a hand for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Chaos Sorceror Lord - 140 Lord Castellant - 100 Something deeply wrong here. The LC is a little 3+ save tank, with an automatic and not-unbindable better than mystic shield (which also stacks). Daemonic Power is good and so is Oracular Visions, but this guy should be 120 or 130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 3 hours ago, Carnelian said: That's not my experience of play. It's quite easy to hide a human wizard behind a line of Stormcast unless the shooting opponent is tall. But then make my group have house ruled this a bit - we say you must be able to see a reasonable amount of the model to shoot at it (not just a hand for example) I agree with @Nico, I find that not being able to see a model so rarely comes up I can't actually remember the last time it did. I find it's easy to assume that for the most part, everything can see everything else! (unless behind buildings or something obvious). Not sure how I feel about deliberately trying to hide certain models and confuse your opponent mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 4 hours ago, Nico said: Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount - 140 Lord Castellant - 100 Something deeply wrong here. The LC is a little 3+ save tank, with an automatic and not-unbindable better than mystic shield (which also stacks). Daemonic Power is good and so is Oracular Visions, but this guy should be 120 or 130. Lord on Daemonic Mount can have a rerollable 4+, which is much better than 3+. He also have mortal wound ward, moves faster, and more attacks. Castellant has a better ability, but we can't have it all. Curseling is 140 and all he has going for him is 2 spells per turn and a bit more fight in him. Vessel is nice, but happens rarely. Still, he is a popular pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I meant Chaos Sorceror Lord in my earlier post - derp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 19 minutes ago, Nico said: I meant Chaos Sorceror Lord in my earlier post - derp. No worries - I get derp 50 % of the time, which is why most of my posts get edited within 1 minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 11 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said: I agree with @Nico, I find that not being able to see a model so rarely comes up I can't actually remember the last time it did. I find it's easy to assume that for the most part, everything can see everything else! (unless behind buildings or something obvious). Not sure how I feel about deliberately trying to hide certain models and confuse your opponent mind... Fair enough but I think it's awesome to have a human wizard being shielded by a Liberator shield wall! Protect the mortal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 10 hours ago, Carnelian said: Fair enough but I think it's awesome to have a human wizard being shielded by a Liberator shield wall! Protect the mortal! Yeh I can see it being a nice house rule. I'm just lazy so assuming everything can see everything else suits me and lets the game flow easily without getting down to models eye view and quibbling over whether you can see a guys left hand or whatever!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennnnnnn6 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Quote Example #2 Darkshards can take dark shields and they get rerolls - no alternative options for if they didn't take them. So it's a no-brainer to glue shields on their backs even if it looks weird. They actually look good and are more realistic if you glue them to the base and have the crossbows resting on the tops like this. This way they act as a Pavise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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