Best AoS Movement Trays?

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Aden said:

Sparks are cool.It's the first law of bro science. 

Seriously probably want to wear goggles too if that's the case.

Next you are going to tell me to put down my beer while I work on these...

[Yokai]

On 5/22/2019 at 2:08 PM, Sedge said:

So MinimagTRAY, thats me.

I've approched this as a 'What do I really want to use' kind of project. The issues I see with current designs are this:

Rims, lack of flexibility, cost, not ready to use, usable for the entire game not just T1

So from my site... www.minimagTRAY.co.uk

Fully magnetic trays: Made of high grade, precision cut steel the trays are fully magnetic to allow your magnetised troops a surface to really stick too.

No RIM! Finally, no rim around your troops. This allows your troops to get into base to base contact with the enemy. No more ‘counts as contact’ but correct placement of your troops in the combat phase without the need to remove your tray to do it.

Low profile. Steel means thin and strong. Profile less than 1mm means that they can easily stack on top of each if the situation calls for it.

Practically invisible when in use. We don’t really want to see the movement tray, it’s the models we want to see. Low profile, no rim and practically invisible when in use. This delivers this like no other design.

Ready to use. MiniMagTRAY are ready to use. No building, gluing or painting required to use. Just magnetised models and your ready to go. Don’t worry if you’ve never magnetised an army.

Magnetising models is sooooo easy. I've always done it for transport so it makes sense to use it on the table. I did a skaven army in one night. The whole lot.

I am going to expand the range to include some of the larger sizes but alos ways to really get the best use out these trays. Designed for fighting with rather than just deployment.

Great to have you here!

Query: are the actual trays magnetic as well? I have glued non-magnetic washers underneath my models to cut costs and hence I need a fully magnetic material underneath.

[Sedge]

I’ll sorry but no. These trays require a magnet underneath the models. You could remove the washers but that’s a lot of work. These are definitely NOT magnetic. 

[JackStreicher]

On 5/22/2019 at 2:08 PM, Sedge said:

So MinimagTRAY, thats me.

I've approched this as a 'What do I really want to use' kind of project. The issues I see with current designs are this:

Rims, lack of flexibility, cost, not ready to use, usable for the entire game not just T1

So from my site... www.minimagTRAY.co.uk

Fully magnetic trays: Made of high grade, precision cut steel the trays are fully magnetic to allow your magnetised troops a surface to really stick too.

No RIM! Finally, no rim around your troops. This allows your troops to get into base to base contact with the enemy. No more ‘counts as contact’ but correct placement of your troops in the combat phase without the need to remove your tray to do it.

Low profile. Steel means thin and strong. Profile less than 1mm means that they can easily stack on top of each if the situation calls for it.

Practically invisible when in use. We don’t really want to see the movement tray, it’s the models we want to see. Low profile, no rim and practically invisible when in use. This delivers this like no other design.

Ready to use. MiniMagTRAY are ready to use. No building, gluing or painting required to use. Just magnetised models and your ready to go. Don’t worry if you’ve never magnetised an army.

Magnetising models is sooooo easy. I've always done it for transport so it makes sense to use it on the table. I did a skaven army in one night. The whole lot.

I am going to expand the range to include some of the larger sizes but alos ways to really get the best use out these trays. Designed for fighting with rather than just deployment.

Just what I was looking for! =}

[DarkWingDuck]

Isn't GW coming out with clear acrylic movement trays for W40K Apocalypse? I could have sworn I saw a picture with them.

Yep, over on BoLS: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/03/40k-breaking-apocalypse-returns.html

I'd think anything useable with 40K would be useable with AoS and I'd expect the trays to be sold separately from the big box. Looks like it'll be out sometime this summer.

 

[Skabnoze]

2 hours ago, DarkWingDuck said:

Isn't GW coming out with clear acrylic movement trays for W40K Apocalypse? I could have sworn I saw a picture with them.

Yep, over on BoLS: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/03/40k-breaking-apocalypse-returns.html

I'd think anything useable with 40K would be useable with AoS and I'd expect the trays to be sold separately from the big box. Looks like it'll be out sometime this summer.

 

Those look like an easy to purchase alternative, but I will probably stick with mainly making magnetic trays.  The ones in the picture have preset distances between the models that look like they are odd distances.  Also I am not certain about the model formations those trays create.  There are gaps between the back-line and front-line models for the 25mm bases which means the back line cannot attack in melee unless you either pretend they are in base contact or you remove them from the tray.

Those trays will probably be more useful for 40k and Apocalypse where most combat is performed at range and you don't need to fuss as much with the unit footprint or model positions.

That said, I am still glad to see GW making and releasing these.  They have always been horribly behind the curve for the concept of movement trays - even though Warhammer Fantasy was absurdly hard to play without them and GW did not have any sort of tray solution for almost 2 decades of time for that game.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Chumphammer]

I just printed a load of these and they work great 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2949155

 

[EMMachine]

On 5/30/2019 at 7:20 PM, Skabnoze said:

Those look like an easy to purchase alternative, but I will probably stick with mainly making magnetic trays.  The ones in the picture have preset distances between the models that look like they are odd distances.  Also I am not certain about the model formations those trays create.  There are gaps between the back-line and front-line models for the 25mm bases which means the back line cannot attack in melee unless you either pretend they are in base contact or you remove them from the tray.

Those trays will probably be more useful for 40k and Apocalypse where most combat is performed at range and you don't need to fuss as much with the unit footprint or model positions.

That said, I am still glad to see GW making and releasing these.  They have always been horribly behind the curve for the concept of movement trays - even though Warhammer Fantasy was absurdly hard to play without them and GW did not have any sort of tray solution for almost 2 decades of time for that game.

Sounds more like the fixation on  '25mm is < 1" so I get more attacks' is the main problem here.

[Skabnoze]

13 hours ago, EMMachine said:

Sounds more like the fixation on  '25mm is < 1" so I get more attacks' is the main problem here.

Why is that a fixation?  It is simple math and not some fixation to abuse game mechanics for advantage.  This is a pretty important thing for many units.  I am not sure about most armies, but for Gloomspite the amount of attacks you can get from second and third ranks is important - especially for units such as Squig Herd or Stabbas.

[EMMachine]

2 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

Why is that a fixation?  It is simple math and not some fixation to abuse game mechanics for advantage.  This is a pretty important thing for many units.  I am not sure about most armies, but for Gloomspite the amount of attacks you can get from second and third ranks is important - especially for units such as Squig Herd or Stabbas.

If GW even realized this possibilty or choose basesize on optic alone. Many new models do have 32mm.  New models on 25 mm are quite rare.

You mentioned Gloomspite Gitz. Squig Herds and Squig Hoppaz had the same Basesize in WHFB (20 mm Square) but Hoppaz got 32 mm Bases.

Grundstok Arkanauts have 25 mm while Grundstok Thunderers have 32 mm.

I really don't know if GW itselfs tests 25mm Units with an additional rank.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, EMMachine said:

If GW even realized this possibilty or choose basesize on optic alone. Many new models do have 32mm.  New models on 25 mm are quite rare.

You mentioned Gloomspite Gitz. Squig Herds and Squig Hoppaz had the same Basesize in WHFB (20 mm Square) but Hoppaz got 32 mm Bases.

Grundstok Arkanauts have 25 mm while Grundstok Thunderers have 32 mm.

I really don't know if GW itselfs tests 25mm Units with an additional rank.

I am well aware of the history of goblin and Squig models and base sizes.  I have played them since 4th edition in the 90s and I own an absurd amount of them.

I don’t see the relevance of new models on 32mm bases for this point.  Sure, many new models are on 32mm bases, but that has not stopped them from making new models on 25mm (Squig Herd for example).  It seems unlikely that they are going to phase out those bases and if they do then that is fine.  But until they do then those models can fight in 2 ranks or 3 ranks if they have 2” range on their weapons.

This is no different than 32mm bases fighting in 2 ranks if they have 2” reach.  The same goes for models on 40mm bases that have long melee range.

I don’t know if GW playtests all of these units fighting in full ranks based on the reach of their weapons.  If not then they should be since their rules specifically facilitate models fighting past each other if they have the reach.  But it still does not matter if they do or they don’t.  The rules are clear in regards to how they work and the purpose of some weapon vs others is specifically the reach.  The strength of some units in melee is the amount of attacks they can deliver.

I honestly don’t know the point you are trying to make unless you are simply trying to say that models on 25mm bases should not be able to attack past one another.

If you are excited by the movement trays shown in the Apocalypse photos then that is great.  I already said that I was glad that GW was making some.  I will probably pick some of those up - even if I only use them for 40k.  For AoS I already have a different method for movement trays that are more flexible in regards to model positioning - and that is more important in AoS than 40k so for this game I will most likely continue to use the ones that I have.

Some sort of movement trays is better than none and it is always nice to see companies invest in things to make games more convenient to play.  

[Souleater]

Another vote for minimagtrays.

I bought a cloud of  both 25mm and 32mm to test them with my DoK and Sylvaneth.

On the one hand I can hold the base upside down and they won't fall off. On the other, they can be pushed around on the cloud when you pile in or reform.

Smooth to push across the table (I was worried about damaging the club's gaming mats) 

I am planning to go to magnets for transport as I am already fed up with damage to Hedonites, Sylvaneth  et al. So will be magnetizing my models anyway.

I can see it taking an hour or two to prep models of you aren't going that route, but then you don't have to paint these...so probably it evens out.

I will be getting more of these as soon as they have enough magnets back in stock.

They aren't cheap but the quality and all round usefulness makes them a great buy, IMO.

 

[Sedge]

1 hour ago, Souleater said:

Another vote for minimagtrays.

I bought a cloud of  both 25mm and 32mm to test them with my DoK and Sylvaneth.

On the one hand I can hold the base upside down and they won't fall off. On the other, they can be pushed around on the cloud when you pile in or reform.

Smooth to push across the table (I was worried about damaging the club's gaming mats) 

I am planning to go to magnets for transport as I am already fed up with damage to Hedonites, Sylvaneth  et al. So will be magnetizing my models anyway.

I can see it taking an hour or two to prep models of you aren't going that route, but then you don't have to paint these...so probably it evens out.

I will be getting more of these as soon as they have enough magnets back in stock.

They aren't cheap but the quality and all round usefulness makes them a great buy, IMO.

 

Always nice to hear that people are happy with the product. I've worked hard to design what I feel is the best design on the marketplace. 

The product range will only expand into the future as more people see the advatages of magnetised models on metalic trays. The flexibilty and usability into late game is second to none.

Always happy to look at what people want for future dsegns od answers on a postcard people.

@minimagTRAY

[Drib]

23 hours ago, EMMachine said:

Sounds more like the fixation on  '25mm is < 1" so I get more attacks' is the main problem here.

Well, as @Skabnoze   mentioned maximum base-to-base distance over a 25mm base is allways  less than 1". Played in offset, the distance decreases to ~0,85"( ~21,65mm) for the second rank, doubled for the third. That's a measurable difference.

[EMMachine]

@Skabnoze, @Drib

The Question is, if a british company (where they most likely use Inch as measuringunit instead of millimeters) really realizes that Inch to mm is 25,4 or if they simply thought 1" = 25mm and tested it this way.  (and it is one year, GW has measuring from bases for AoS, in the time before it was measuring from modelparts or being in Basecontact)

Its only about the statement "The GW trays are bad because I can't max out my 25mm Base models"

On 5/30/2019 at 7:20 PM, Skabnoze said:

There are gaps between the back-line and front-line models for the 25mm bases which means the back line cannot attack in melee unless you either pretend they are in base contact or you remove them from the tray.

Perhaps it wasn't intended to maxout the attacks of 25mm base models and we are only playing it this way because of measureunit conversion.

[Sedge]

So my trays are done with a metric 25mm between models. This prevents models moving between them (1”=25.4mm) 

also as they allow flexible placement of models (no rim to stop you) you can place them where you want on the tray. Simples. 

 

Also do these trays allow models to be in base to base. This IS important in AoS any way you look at it. Most trays prevent this 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Sedge

[Skabnoze]

8 hours ago, EMMachine said:

@Skabnoze, @Drib

The Question is, if a british company (where they most likely use Inch as measuringunit instead of millimeters) really realizes that Inch to mm is 25,4 or if they simply thought 1" = 25mm and tested it this way.  (and it is one year, GW has measuring from bases for AoS, in the time before it was measuring from modelparts or being in Basecontact)

Its only about the statement "The GW trays are bad because I can't max out my 25mm Base models"

Perhaps it wasn't intended to maxout the attacks of 25mm base models and we are only playing it this way because of measureunit conversion.

I give them a bit more credit than this.  Britain is in very close proximity to the EU and I expect they teach the metric system better than they usually do here in the US and people tend to have more exposure to it than here in 'murica.  But for the sake of argument lets go ahead and assume that despite GW 25mm bases existing for the last 25+ years and the games using Imperial measurement that whole time (except Epic - that game used metric) that the designers were under the assumption that a 25mm base is equal to 1".  And lets also assume that they playtested the game with this assumption. 

The end result is that it should not matter at all.  The core rules are very explicit for how to measure distances and how to attack in melee.  To attack in melee the enemy has to be within range.  To measure range you simply measure the distance between the two model bases from the closest points.  So, if you have 2 models that are attacking over a 1" wide base and both the attacking model and defending model are in base to base contact with the intervening model then the farthest possible distance the attacker and defender can be from each other is 1" - which is within range according to the rules.  So it does not matter if 25mm < 1".  If you take the stance that 25mm == 1" then a model with 1" melee range can attack past a model with a 1" wide base that it is in contact with.  The intervening base has to be greater than 1" wide to prevent an attack.

If GW wants to prevent models with 1" melee range from attacking past models with a 25mm base then they need to explicitly call this out in the rules because there is nothing in the rules (measurement conversion does not matter) that stops it.

But again, this above train of thought still assumes that the GW developers are a bunch of dunces that don't know much of what they are doing and don't remember much of grade school.  I have been in this hobby for a long time now and I have seen GW do a lot of bone-headed things, but even I think this seems like a very poor view to take regarding the competence of the rules team.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Sedge]

Yes here in the UK the design industry are vastly more likely to use the metric measurements than the imperial system. I work in design for oil industry mainly. I have to do drawings in both imperial and metric. Imperial is a pain to tolerance with bit fractional and decimal options. 

[Rhellion]

I just ordered 2 armies' worth. 🤠

[Sedge]

So Minimagtray have had an independent review from the Plastic Craic Blog website. Totally independent from Minimagtray just a review on the products they bought. Really great (and funny) review. If your even thinking about movement tray (and with Cities of Sigmar round the corner its a great time) head over and have a read for yourself.

https://plasticcraic.blog/2019/09/23/product-review-mini-mag-trays/

[zilberfrid]

Thanks! As soon as I have my first units ready, I expect to order a sizable bunch. I can make my own stuff for a lot of things, but I am known to be rough around the literal edges, and I can't produce the quality I have seen in your product when I saw someone playing with them in the store. It is really nice!

[Redmanphill]

On 5/24/2019 at 3:18 AM, Skabnoze said:

It’s a big sheet of metal and the models can stick to any point on it - not just exactly on the footprint.

You can slide models around - I do it all the time with mine since I also use them to carry and store many of my models.

Seems to be exactly what you'd do without a tray....

Is there a listing anywhere of suppliers for movement trays. I asked Sarissa about these a while ago but they never responded to me.

 

[zilberfrid]

44 minutes ago, Redmanphill said:

Seems to be exactly what you'd do without a tray....

Sliding 40 guard around on uneven surface simply isn't going to work, and painted tables will not like that. That said, picking up movement trays also is a lot faster than picking up individuals.

[Sedge]

3 hours ago, Redmanphill said:

Seems to be exactly what you'd do without a tray....

Is there a listing anywhere of suppliers for movement trays. I asked Sarissa about these a while ago but they never responded to me.

 

Well I’m a movement tray supplier and I’m happy to respond. Come over to www.minimagtray.co.uk and have a look. We have a good email section so if you’d like to ask direct questions or feedback you can. 

 

You can can also get a free tray. Yes really. Pop in over and get your free stuff. 

[Redmanphill]

Thanks for the offer, shippings a bit steep though!  

Are all your trays/sheets branded?

If so is there an option to have them without branding?

Whats the benefit of your trays/sheets that other manufacturers don’t offer?