AOS 2 - Lethisian Defenders Discussion

[Maturin]

12 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

Reads as you can bring back D3 wounds not characteristic, so a 5 or 6 is one lib on full health, and 1 lib on 1 wound. Healing storm ability brings them to full health though.

I'll have to look that up because I'm sure I have read the contrary. Will get back to you later.

[Mcthew]

12 minutes ago, Maturin said:

I'll have to look that up because I'm sure I have read the contrary. Will get back to you later.

Cool - would be good to know. Don't have exact wording in front me 👍

[Mcthew]

Wording is "return a number of slain models with a combined wounds characteristic equal or less than a roll of D3." So I reckon  on a second reading you're right - for stormcast the most you're gonna resurrect is one model.

[Forehead]

I'm also looking at this army as a dwarf player. Not sure how well i'll be able to make it work with just KO and fyreslayers but i think these two factions will go quite well together. May have to get some eels for a fast melee option though.

[Forehead]

Ok, there clearly aren't many of us playing a Lethisian Army but does this GHB 2020 designers' commentary indicate that Lethisian Army is no longer valid for matched play/tournaments or is the allegiance not affected by this just the warscrolls?

Q: Can I use rules from older publications in Pitched Battle (2020) games, such as Mercenary Companies from the General’s Handbook 2019? A: Yes, but only if your opponent agrees or a house rule permits it.

Q: The Pitched Battle Profiles 2020 book does not include profiles for warscrolls or warscroll battalions from previous editions of White Dwarf magazine, from battleboxes like Carrion Empire or for store-exclusive limited edition models. Can I use these profiles in Pitched Battle (2020) games? A: Yes, but only if your opponent agrees or a house rule permits it.

[SentinelGuy]

I read it as they're now invalid and no longer playable in matched games without permission

[JackStreicher]

Like pretty much everything 👏🏼 GW

[Mcthew]

9 hours ago, Forehead said:

Ok, there clearly aren't many of us playing a Lethisian Army but does this GHB 2020 designers' commentary indicate that Lethisian Army is no longer valid for matched play/tournaments or is the allegiance not affected by this just the warscrolls?

Q: Can I use rules from older publications in Pitched Battle (2020) games, such as Mercenary Companies from the General’s Handbook 2019? A: Yes, but only if your opponent agrees or a house rule permits it.

Q: The Pitched Battle Profiles 2020 book does not include profiles for warscrolls or warscroll battalions from previous editions of White Dwarf magazine, from battleboxes like Carrion Empire or for store-exclusive limited edition models. Can I use these profiles in Pitched Battle (2020) games? A: Yes, but only if your opponent agrees or a house rule permits it.

Not sure. Lethy Defenders are not a warscroll battalion nor warscroll in itself. Its an allegiance. As such they're not covered by this. Would need to wait for a Forbidden Power FAQ to make them illegal, I reckon.

[Forehead]

I'm inclined to agree with Mcthew both because it serves my interest as i want to get started with this allegiance and secondly i agree its not a warscroll or battalion, just a seemingly rare and obscure allegiance choice. You can still play much older factions such as dispossessed to my knowledge so surely 15 month old allegiances shouldnt be getting the chop. 

Nevertheless i have my first game as Lethisian tomorrow. List below:

Leaders:

- Runeson on magmadroth (general)

- Runesmiter on foot.

- Endrinmaster with balloon.

- Knight incantor

Units:

- 2 x 10 Arkanaut company (BL)

- 10 vulkite beserkers (BL) (picks and shields)

- 2 x gunhaulers

- 2 x 3 endrinriggers

- 5 auric hearthguard

- 10 hearthguard beserkers (polestrike)

Artillery:

Celestar ballista

Spells:

Zhaggron flamespitter

Dais Arcanum

Thoughts are... Castle style build at the beginning with lots of screening (i think i'm playing against beasts so need to ride out the turn 1 ambush) keeping celesta and gunhaulers in the middle. Runesmiter underground with the HGB. The gunhaulers, Endrinmaster and riggers for mobility and late game movement/objective grabbing.

[SentinelGuy]

On 8/10/2020 at 8:08 PM, Forehead said:

I'm inclined to agree with Mcthew both because it serves my interest as i want to get started with this allegiance and secondly i agree its not a warscroll or battalion, just a seemingly rare and obscure allegiance choice. You can still play much older factions such as dispossessed to my knowledge so surely 15 month old allegiances shouldnt be getting the chop. 

Nevertheless i have my first game as Lethisian tomorrow. List below:

Leaders:

- Runeson on magmadroth (general)

- Runesmiter on foot.

- Endrinmaster with balloon.

- Knight incantor

Units:

- 2 x 10 Arkanaut company (BL)

- 10 vulkite beserkers (BL) (picks and shields)

- 2 x gunhaulers

- 2 x 3 endrinriggers

- 5 auric hearthguard

- 10 hearthguard beserkers (polestrike)

Artillery:

Celestar ballista

Spells:

Zhaggron flamespitter

Dais Arcanum

Thoughts are... Castle style build at the beginning with lots of screening (i think i'm playing against beasts so need to ride out the turn 1 ambush) keeping celesta and gunhaulers in the middle. Runesmiter underground with the HGB. The gunhaulers, Endrinmaster and riggers for mobility and late game movement/objective grabbing.

Interesting list. Is the Runeson on Magmadroth there as a cheapish beatstick?

[Forehead]

The runeson is there to absorb both wounds and attention. I give him the 5+ after save artefact so he's fairly tanky. List needs some work as i'll probably drop one gunhauler and 3 endrinriggers for a frigate when i get the model.

[Juicy]

Im going to try this list very soon. As a stormcast themed Lethisian defenders force. 

Any one tryed something like this before?

 

Allegiance: Lethisian Defenders
Lord-Celestant (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Raven Priest - Morrda's Resurrection
- Artefact: Crown of Raven Feathers
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Morrda's Resurrection
Knight-Vexillor (110)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer
Excelsior Warpriest (80)
- Prayer: Morrda's Resurrection
- Allies
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
25 x Liberators (450)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 5x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
10 x Protectors (340)
- 4x Starsoul Maces
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 152
 

[Forehead]

I don't have much experience with SC so I'd be really keen to find out how you get on. In particular I want to see if Liberators are useful with the allegiance buff.

[Maturin]

2 minutes ago, Forehead said:

I don't have much experience with SC so I'd be really keen to find out how you get on. In particular I want to see if Liberators are useful with the allegiance buff.

40mm base 1" reach, even with 3+, it's not great. When you want to resurrect you can only bring one a turn.
In sce list libs are taking at minimum size as core tax

[Forehead]

11 minutes ago, Maturin said:

40mm base 1" reach, even with 3+, it's not great. When you want to resurrect you can only bring one a turn.
In sce list libs are taking at minimum size as core tax

Fair point, Arkanaut company with their shooting, near objective buffs and the reroll battleshock from the allegiance will continue to be my main battleline choice.

[Juicy]

5 hours ago, Forehead said:

I don't have much experience with SC so I'd be really keen to find out how you get on. In particular I want to see if Liberators are useful with the allegiance buff.

Yeah this settup ill make 30 libs 2 plus rerolling 1 armour save. Battleshock immume and hitting with 6 grandhammers for killing stuff. Main focus is roadblock style with resurrection focus from the priests.  While the protectors are there for a bit of damage and van damage stuff over the heads of the liberators while the ballistas are killing stuff. Park this on objectives and farm vp. Atleast in theorie that is the plan

[Maturin]

3 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Yeah this settup ill make 30 libs 2 plus rerolling 1 armour save. Battleshock immume and hitting with 6 grandhammers for killing stuff. Main focus is roadblock style with resurrection focus from the priests.  While the protectors are there for a bit of damage and van damage stuff over the heads of the liberators while the ballistas are killing stuff. Park this on objectives and farm vp. Atleast in theorie that is the plan

I didn't see the list. Yes libs would bé 2+ if he can stack all of them inside 9 inch of the castellant. Still, they won't be able to move. If your opponents wants to avoid grandhammers, it's easily zone. No?

And you can't Make a Line, if you do, you're 3+

[Juicy]

For the lord castellant its wholly within 18 inch for the 3+ save and then wholy within 12 from the general for the commandpoint . Wholly within 12 is not that hard to do. Depending on the senario.  I would like it better if i could make a 2+ line tho;)

Without the line i would go 6 grand hammers in the front. But this list is not about killing stuff with the lib block its more about holding objectives. Im not sure this is better then my 30 roadblock of battleshock immume libs with using skyborne slayers

[plavski]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Jp8AWDibSM2831yA.pdf

Quote

Q: When choosing an army for a Pitched Battle, what publications can I use without my opponent’s permission?

A: You can use the warscrolls for units with a Pitched Battle profile listed in the General’s Handbook 2020 (excluding those listed in the Legends Pitched Battle Profiles section) and the warscrolls for units with a Pitched Battle profile in a publication that has a release date of August 2020 or later. In addition, when choosing your army, you can use rules from any of the following publications and any that have a release date of August 2020 or later:

Soul Wars: Forbidden Power

This army is fully legit for play now as GW have reversed their stance and made old battalions from White Dwarf and other supplements legal without requiring permission.

[Juicy]

im going to a 100 player tournament soon with my stormcast lethisian defenders list! i let u guys know how i did

[Forehead]

5 hours ago, plavski said:

This army is fully legit for play now as GW have reversed their stance and made old battalions from White Dwarf and other supplements legal without requiring permission.

This is great news and a sensible, helpful move from GW.  Also means the last couple of months painting up mixed dwarves havent been wasted. Might even commit to buying some liberators now.

[Forehead]

Having had a few games with the old list i've made some amendments to my list:

Leaders:

Runesone on MD (priest, 5+ FNP and Morrdas Eye prayer)

Runesmiter (Morrdas resurrection prayer)

Battlesmith

Thundrik

Brokk Grunggson

Lord Veritant w/ pooch (Morrdas embrace prayer)

Units:

Vulkites x 10 battleline with picks

HG Beserkers x 10 with poleaxes

Arkanaut co x 10

Arkanaut co x 10

Thundriks dudes

6 endrinriggers, one skyhook and 5 with rivet guns and saws

Gunhauler with cannon

Other:

Fyrewall

Zhaggron flamespitter

Extra command point

2000

Strategy castle build as before with the fyreslayers all together near the middle. 1 Arkanaut unit on each side, one with thundrik and his mates and the other with veritant and the dog. Magmadroth can go where he wants but needs to avoid being smashed by something silly, other than that he's very survivable with the fyrewall and battlesmith occasionally falling in range. The gunhauler, brokk and the endrinriggers sit in range of thundrik for his RR ones buff. I drop the runesmiter and HGB last just behind the vulkites as this really messes with opponents deployment as they expect the alpha strike.

The list further confuses opponents as  the HGBs reputation makes people fear them, even in a blob of 10. The fyreslayers infanty havent been the part that dishes out the damage though. Brokk flying high with the gunhauler and riggers is terrifying with the reroll and the plus 1 to charge from the skyhook. I dont typically use this first turn as everything is too compact and i want to hit the valuable things so for the first couple of turns i will stay where i am or edge forward to get the ArCo on the objectives for their buff using the flamespitter to do a few mortals but little else. When they're a bit more stetched out then i start moving forward and drop brokk and the shock troops on one of the flanks, the riggers die to a stiff breeze but dish out horrendous damage with their saws, also dont shoot the unit you want to charge after flying high otherwise your charge roll needs to be higher.

Typically i wait to be charged in more cases than i do the charge.

Its all going quite well but with only one dispell i know a magic heavy build will rinse the small heroes on this army.

Sorry for the long write up, i hope this helps 

[Juicy]

On 9/30/2020 at 11:51 PM, Forehead said:

Having had a few games with the old list i've made some amendments to my list:

Leaders:

Runesone on MD (priest, 5+ FNP and Morrdas Eye prayer)

Runesmiter (Morrdas resurrection prayer)

Battlesmith

Thundrik

Brokk Grunggson

Lord Veritant w/ pooch (Morrdas embrace prayer)

Units:

Vulkites x 10 battleline with picks

HG Beserkers x 10 with poleaxes

Arkanaut co x 10

Arkanaut co x 10

Thundriks dudes

6 endrinriggers, one skyhook and 5 with rivet guns and saws

Gunhauler with cannon

Other:

Fyrewall

Zhaggron flamespitter

Extra command point

2000

Strategy castle build as before with the fyreslayers all together near the middle. 1 Arkanaut unit on each side, one with thundrik and his mates and the other with veritant and the dog. Magmadroth can go where he wants but needs to avoid being smashed by something silly, other than that he's very survivable with the fyrewall and battlesmith occasionally falling in range. The gunhauler, brokk and the endrinriggers sit in range of thundrik for his RR ones buff. I drop the runesmiter and HGB last just behind the vulkites as this really messes with opponents deployment as they expect the alpha strike.

The list further confuses opponents as  the HGBs reputation makes people fear them, even in a blob of 10. The fyreslayers infanty havent been the part that dishes out the damage though. Brokk flying high with the gunhauler and riggers is terrifying with the reroll and the plus 1 to charge from the skyhook. I dont typically use this first turn as everything is too compact and i want to hit the valuable things so for the first couple of turns i will stay where i am or edge forward to get the ArCo on the objectives for their buff using the flamespitter to do a few mortals but little else. When they're a bit more stetched out then i start moving forward and drop brokk and the shock troops on one of the flanks, the riggers die to a stiff breeze but dish out horrendous damage with their saws, also dont shoot the unit you want to charge after flying high otherwise your charge roll needs to be higher.

Typically i wait to be charged in more cases than i do the charge.

Its all going quite well but with only one dispell i know a magic heavy build will rinse the small heroes on this army.

Sorry for the long write up, i hope this helps 

Super cool list.

Im still trying to make Lethis work. Nice to see you have some succes! if you have any more insights please do share. I like it  alot

[Forehead]

Well this list served me well at a tournament before lockdown 2 here in the UK but its not clear whether youre allowed to have the magmic invocations in a non-fyreslayer allegiance and whilst no one has suggested i am cheating I'd rather not stray into this area if people think i'm being a bit too gamey so i've retired the list whilst i have a think what i could use the extra points for or shift over to playing a different army when games finally happen again.

[Doko]

I really dont know,but i see maaaaaaany tournament list that arent stormcast and bring one as ally one mage stormcast and the stormcast endless spell.

So i guess you can use fyreslayer endless spells also even if you arent a fyreslayer army