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Sigwarus

AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion

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3 hours ago, Ferrus65 said:

This would be too good  to be true 😍

Man, the anticipation alone made me postpone my order for the Nighthaunt battleforce box because there definitely will be new battalions to consider and I won't be disappointed at all if they forget Legion of Grief.

We can trust GW to not fluff this up, right? 🥺


edit: language

Edited by Bayul

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6 hours ago, Aaranis said:

If your strategy is kamikaze charges and popping them back up, why not Bladegheists ? They're designed to perform this task and require less buffs than Harridans to be optimal. + retreat and charge in the alternate dimension where they survive a round of CC.

Cost.

Dreads cost 20 less until max unit size. At max they are 40 less.

That adds up. It's an endless spell. It's an extra CP if the rest of your list allows for it. Less cost is more wiggle room.

I love my 'gheists, and they've done right by me, but I'm no longer thinking they are the optimal choice if you're willing to try to play tactically.

They are most certainly the best choice if you can't buff them, though, and you already have Reapers.

Edited by EnixLHQ

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At least somebody is happy about the new NH battalions. I try not to be grumpy.

hlppv419zp341.png

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2 minutes ago, Bayul said:

At least somebody is happy about the new NH battalions. I try not to be grumpy.

hlppv419zp341.png

I feel your pain. I was hoping the battalions would be valid in either army, myself.

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Based on "Core rules' Designer's Commentary" from July 2019, Page 9:

Quote

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)? A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion. In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle).

What would prevent a 2000 points Legion of Grief army to escort its Lady Olynder general with:

- one "Nighthaunt Warscroll Battalion - The Dolorous Guard" (120 points)

- the 2 required associated units of 5 Hexwraiths (2*140=280)

= ...for a total of 400 Ally points?

Would it be legit and would this army get as well 1 extra CP + 1 extra artifact?

If yes then: new NH battalions, despite being not in Legion of Grief, would still offer an interesting way of shielding Lady Olynder and exploiting more her potential?

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12 minutes ago, Uvatha said:

Based on "Core rules' Designer's Commentary" from July 2019, Page 9:

What would prevent a 2000 points Legion of Grief army to escort its Lady Olynder general with:

- one "Nighthaunt Warscroll Battalion - The Dolorous Guard" (120 points)

- the 2 required associated units of 5 Hexwraiths (2*140=280)

= ...for a total of 400 Ally points?

Would it be legit and would this army get as well 1 extra CP + 1 extra artifact?

If yes then: new NH battalions, despite being not in Legion of Grief, would still offer an interesting way of shielding Lady Olynder and exploiting more her potential?

Simple, Legion of Grief has no ally choices and can't be allied by anyone.

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14 hours ago, AidenNicol said:

Simple, Legion of Grief has no ally choices and can't be allied by anyone.

...aaah thank you!

So, we are not even authorised to ally the factions part of our own allegiance.

So many reasons to grief! Now I understand the name 😅

 

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11 hours ago, Uvatha said:

...aaah thank you!

So, we are not even authorised to ally the factions part of our own allegiance.

So many reasons to grief! Now I understand the name 😅

 

yeah mate we are a VERY weird army, we have no battalions, half as many traits and artefacts as everyone else, an incredibly barebones allegiance ability and yet the army is still in the upper bracket of the international scene. Testament that nighthaunt warscrolls are well designed, but the nighthaunt allegiance rules weren't. 

 

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What do you think will happen to Legion of Grief in 2020? With the missed opportunity to include battalions in the upcoming White Dwarf I am not very optimistic that GW will take a look at Forbidden Powers ever again. Do you think the concept of "Legions" will sustain and GW might release a new battletome for LoN next year?

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On 12/18/2019 at 3:53 AM, Bayul said:

What do you think will happen to Legion of Grief in 2020? With the missed opportunity to include battalions in the upcoming White Dwarf I am not very optimistic that GW will take a look at Forbidden Powers ever again. Do you think the concept of "Legions" will sustain and GW might release a new battletome for LoN next year?

I think we're more likely to see it wrapped into next years Generals Handbook and then incorporated into Legions of Nagash in a couple of years time.  I'm hoping next years handbook may streamline and improve how battalions work (though that may just be a pipe dream).

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2 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

wrapped into next years Generals Handbook

Oh, do you mean like in the Conquest Unbound chapter in this years GHB?

Edited by Bayul

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Does anyone run MYRMOURN BANSHEES ?

I really like them , 210 for 12 is pricey , I have tried them a couple of times , they did OK , but need so many helpers following them around.

I want to like them enough to drop a unit of 30 Reapers  (420)from my list to take 12 Banshees and 10 Bladegheists. (380)

Pros

rend -2 d3 damage is really good.

Unbind at +3 if you have a unit of 12 but only 18" range.

Can have a go at Dispel at 6" but no + to dispel ?

 

Cons

Only 1 attack ,means you need to get   the unbind off or have a KoS on steed to get an extra attack

Hit on 4+ , means you need a KoS on foot to buff them.

 

 

So do you like them a lot ?

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Keith said:

Does anyone run MYRMOURN BANSHEES ?

Why, yes. At least in LoG.

You've got to run them in at least one full unit, and be ready to toss some KoS +hit buffs their way. But one full unit even with no magic eating buffs can do decent damage thanks to that rend and D3. Against a 4 non-ethereal save you can expect about 1 wound per model on average.

Yeah, they'll fall a bit flat if you're not unbinding a spell somewhere. You can prop that up with a KoSoES command ability, but that's not ideal unless that's your plan from the start. Instead, if your opponent is low-magic or just not positioned well enough for you, you can cheese it with a cheap endless spell. You can dispell in the same phase the spell is cast, or leave it on the field so it can eat it later, just be sure to do it in the presence of graves or other model return to offset the damage.

They're a risky unit. Very worth it if you're able to manage the requirements.

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Beware it's been FAQed that you can't dispel an Endless Spell on the same turn, it's in the Malign Sorcery FAQ or something. 

But Myrmourns are one of our best damage dealer units if supported right. Concerning the buffs they need, by applying probabilities you can see that almost always it's better to give +1A than +1/+2 to Hit. But if they have 24 attacks on 2+, it's better than 36 attacks on 4+ by a small margin. However you shouldn't be too worried about spending the CPs in a LoG list.

For the anecdote I had 12 Myrmourn hitting on 2s killing a Keeper of Secrets with their 12 attacks, doing exactly 14 damage. In LoG they can be resurrected so that's a big plus.

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I don't use them as Nighthaunt anymore because 12 wounds for 210 points is not enough defensively and 12 bodies are so easily wiped out that NH never get a chance to heal them back up. And boy, do they have a target painted on them once the opponent sees what they do.

For Legion of Grief however I use them in every single list. The thing about them is that their damage potential is extremely high and their damage is condensed in a very small footprint. 12 ladies are easy to squeeze in wherever you want to destroy something. So while yes, they do need support to shine, for me it's absolutely worth it just because then they deal big damage so reliably

Another thing to consider is that we get more and more units in the meta that reroll saves. Mortal wounds deal with that nuisance but also -2 rend. So in that, damage-wise they serve a similar role to Spirit Hosts who are weaker offensively and with 50mm bases don't always get enough bodies to attack with in.

tl;dr In Legion of Grief I actually build a whole flank around them with support like Knight of Shrouds on Steed and missing a wizard because they got denies covered. Having them unbind a spell and giving them +1attack to let them deal 16 damage on a 3+ save target is a sight to behold. Don't expect it to work twice against the same opponent though 😂

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So, putting my toes into LoG, and I want to see what y'all think of this list.

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Vassal of the Craven King
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Spell: Dread Withering
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Spirit Torment (120)
Spirit Torment (120)

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)

Units
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (320)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (320)

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139

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7 hours ago, Undeadly said:

Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)

What do you want to achieve with Reikenor in this list? You don't have any endless spells to cast nor to disspell (with myrmourn banshees for example). You still have points left for something like Suffocating Gravetide though.

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6 hours ago, Bayul said:

What do you want to achieve with Reikenor in this list? You don't have any endless spells to cast nor to disspell (with myrmourn banshees for example). You still have points left for something like Suffocating Gravetide though.

I feel like Reiknor is a really good utility piece; he can snipe models with his ability, so you can stop Pink Horrors from respawning, or knock out a Hekatos to stop Shield wall. He also offers a decent combat profile, a good unique spell, and the ability to ensure that a spell goes off when absolutely needed. 

But for an alternate list, I could forgo magic all together; and instead, go all in on CP regen with Kurdoss, and add in a unit of Myrmourn to add some more punch.

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Spell: Dread Withering
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Vassal of the Craven King
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Spirit Torment (120)
Spirit Torment (120)
Kurdoss Valentian, the Craven King (180)

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)

Units
20 x Grimghast Reapers (320)
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (320)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139
 

 

Edited by Undeadly

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So I'm a new player, currently expanding my starter set Nighthaunts in order to field them as Legion of Grief, as the scene at my local store in Liverpool is highly competitive and I want to give myself the best footing possible.

I notice that JP Ganis used 10 black knights in his winning list at an event in Scotland back in September (Onslaught), which can be found here.

I already have 12 banshees and 20 bladegheists myself, and have room to add in 10 knights + a 30 point endless spell to round out my 2k list.

Whilst I haven't yet played any games with them, my guess is that their strong movement and guaranteed 6 inch charge means that quite often you 'll be getting the benefit of their ability of +1 to Wound and Damage, making for an effective unit that you can keep recycling and moving to where they're needed.

Do people have  any further thoughts on this topic?

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On 2/4/2020 at 2:44 PM, Liquidsteel said:

Do people have  any further thoughts on this topic?

I'd follow his Twitter account, he's already tinkering on new lists. There's even one particular smartass in his feed disputing his choices.

Concerning Black Knights: I would only use them if I already had some. You'd have a hammer for your anvil (40 chainrasps). With 12" movement and proper gravesite placing they can harrass the enemys backline over and over. I prefer Hexwraiths though with rend and Ethereal.

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3 minutes ago, Bayul said:

I'd follow his Twitter account, he's already tinkering on new lists. There's even one particular smartass in his feed disputing his choices.

Concerning Black Knights: I would only use them if I already had some. You'd have a hammer for your anvil (40 chainrasps). With 12" movement and proper gravesite placing they can harrass the enemys backline over and over. I prefer Hexwraiths though with rend and Ethereal.

Ha thanks, however it seems we're already in communication there as it's me who started that twitter chain (I'm @jgrzywinski91).

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Has anyone tried running something other than a dreadblade as the general?

 

And why can't the knight of shrouds take an artefact?

Edited by Dead_Duardin

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I haven't tested it yet, however a list with Olynder and Mannfred sounds quite appealing, having been recommended to me by one of the top players and store owner at my flgs. 

 

I played a game against Petrifex Elite on Thursday with my Dreadblade Harrow general, narrowly edging a victory, however both new players with plenty of mistakes and sub-optimal play. The teleport gave me the victory as I was able to get in and summon in his back line on turn 4. I did sorely lack mortal wounds which Olynder could provide, and Mannfred offers something with punch.

 

I have Olynder painted already, so I'll look to add Mannfred to my collection in the next few month or so for sure.

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Are you using Azyr or Warscroll Builder? The former doesn't allow KoS to take trait and artefact but the other does, it would appear.

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7 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

I haven't tested it yet, however a list with Olynder and Mannfred sounds quite appealing, having been recommended to me by one of the top players and store owner at my flgs. 

 

I played a game against Petrifex Elite on Thursday with my Dreadblade Harrow general, narrowly edging a victory, however both new players with plenty of mistakes and sub-optimal play. The teleport gave me the victory as I was able to get in and summon in his back line on turn 4. I did sorely lack mortal wounds which Olynder could provide, and Mannfred offers something with punch.

 

I have Olynder painted already, so I'll look to add Mannfred to my collection in the next few month or so for sure.

What about the olynder/mannfred combo appealed to them?

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