AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion

[Aaranis]

15 hours ago, Keith said:

Hi all

I am looking for some thing different to play besides Night haunt.

So how does this look ?

It has a bit of fun with spells. I cant see any use for the other Legion of Grief spells  Hence they all have Dread Withering.

The 3 spells are a real disappointment , why couldn't they just make up 3 more spells

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Vassal of the Craven King
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
Necromancer (130)
- Spell: Dread Withering
Necromancer (130)
- Spell: Dread Withering
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Spell: Dread Withering

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)

Units
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (320)
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (320)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)
1 x Corpse Cart (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 126
 

I don't have much experience on LoG but as I see it having big units is lesss important in Legions as you can res them with the graves when destroyed, having more smaller units give you more board presence. Of course then you lose a few points because of max size discount so there's that to consider. Big units are also more liable to debuffs.

Concerning magic, Wail of Doom is not that bad for a frontline caster. You'll have 1 cast of Vanhel's, 1 cast of Spectral Lure, and then 1 cast of whichever fits best. I also feel like 2 Endless Spells may be too much but if that's what you want go wild with it.

[Aaranis]

What are you guys thoughts on Black Knights, be it in LoG or any other Legion ? Their damage on the charge is not too bad and they have mobility. Compared to Hexwraiths they're cheaper and hit harder, although not in MWs, but those are reliant on luck anyway. The -1 Ld banner fits the theme nicely too. 

I'm asking because I have 5 painted Hexwraiths and 5 mounted and I'm considering adding the Black Knight parts, as with their current warscroll I don't see myself playing 10 Hexwraiths anymore. 

[Sauriv]

20 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

What are you guys thoughts on Black Knights, be it in LoG or any other Legion ? Their damage on the charge is not too bad and they have mobility. Compared to Hexwraiths they're cheaper and hit harder, although not in MWs, but those are reliant on luck anyway. The -1 Ld banner fits the theme nicely too. 

I'm asking because I have 5 painted Hexwraiths and 5 mounted and I'm considering adding the Black Knight parts, as with their current warscroll I don't see myself playing 10 Hexwraiths anymore. 

I have been thinking alot about black knights too. It's a interesting unit with  -2 bravery. 

But the biggest downside that i found is the lack of synergies. To give them more attacks one would need wight kings but their warscroll is old and their command ability activates in the hero phase. So you can't res a unit and buff it in the same turn. 

Bladegheists have a similar "better when charging " and can be buffed by KoSoES and many others. 

[Aaranis]

Can't Vampire Lords buff them too ? And they're a good fit for LoG too. But yeah it's a shame Wight Kings aren't more versatile, I'd love a Skeleton army. Guess it will be OBR for this but it's not the same feel as a badass resurrected king.

[AidenNicol]

Sup all,

Name's Aiden, been running Legion of Grief since i discovered it had more (in my country's meta at least) playing power against other stronger armies than Nighthaunt and have essentially switched to LoG until Nighthaunt get some kind of update or draw for me to play them.

Finished in the top 20 for my country (New Zealand) so I've been invited to the masters tournament which is in 2 weeks, thought you might like to see the list I've been running.

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Vassal of the Craven King
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Spell: Dread Withering
Necromancer (130)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Spell: Dread Withering
Knight of Shrouds (100)

Battleline
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)

Units
20 x Grimghast Reapers (320)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)
20 x Dreadscythe Harridans (280)
15 x Dreadscythe Harridans (240)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 147
 

It's your standard CP farm army that just care's about denying space and ramping out CP in the midgame to close out the game by heavily pumping up units with the stackable buff from the KoS + Reroll 1s to hit command ability added in GHB2019. The goal is less to kill and more to abuse massive durability tied with the ability to restore losses to hold objectives.

The masters pack leans extremely heavily towards packs that favor high numbers, so I'm confident I can do well with it. I've got a blog on here where I'll post all the matchups and how the games go.

[Sauriv]

11 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

Can't Vampire Lords buff them too ? And they're a good fit for LoG too. But yeah it's a shame Wight Kings aren't more versatile, I'd love a Skeleton army. Guess it will be OBR for this but it's not the same feel as a badass resurrected king.

Sorry vampires isn't included in LoG

[Aaranis]

10 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

Sorry vampires isn't included in LoG

Ah can't we have them in Allies ? I must be confusing with NH, my bad. Then yes it's Mounted Wight King if we want to buff them and follow.

[AidenNicol]

1 hour ago, Aaranis said:

Ah can't we have them in Allies ? I must be confusing with NH, my bad. Then yes it's Mounted Wight King if we want to buff them and follow.

Sadly the only way to get Vampire Lords into LoG would be the mercenary company, which both requires at least one unit of Blood Knights (super good just not here), and costs us our turn 1 CP (uh oh). Ultimately not worth it

[AidenNicol]

5 hours ago, Aaranis said:

What are you guys thoughts on Black Knights, be it in LoG or any other Legion ? Their damage on the charge is not too bad and they have mobility. Compared to Hexwraiths they're cheaper and hit harder, although not in MWs, but those are reliant on luck anyway. The -1 Ld banner fits the theme nicely too. 

I'm asking because I have 5 painted Hexwraiths and 5 mounted and I'm considering adding the Black Knight parts, as with their current warscroll I don't see myself playing 10 Hexwraiths anymore. 

Have done a similar thing with my black knights where i made them as the knghts but have them swords and axes instead of lances and painted them ghostly. However as cool as they are I'd rather have 30 wounds of Grimghast Reapers than 40 wounds of Black Knights.

[Keith]

4 hours ago, AidenNicol said:

Sup all,

Name's Aiden, been running Legion of Grief since i discovered it had more (in my country's meta at least) playing power against other stronger armies than Nighthaunt and have essentially switched to LoG until Nighthaunt get some kind of update or draw for me to play them.

Finished in the top 20 for my country (New Zealand) so I've been invited to the masters tournament which is in 2 weeks, thought you might like to see the list I've been running.

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Vassal of the Craven King
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Spell: Dread Withering
Necromancer (130)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Spell: Dread Withering
Knight of Shrouds (100)

Battleline
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)

Units
20 x Grimghast Reapers (320)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)
20 x Dreadscythe Harridans (280)
15 x Dreadscythe Harridans (240)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 147
 

It's your standard CP farm army that just care's about denying space and ramping out CP in the midgame to close out the game by heavily pumping up units with the stackable buff from the KoS + Reroll 1s to hit command ability added in GHB2019. The goal is less to kill and more to abuse massive durability tied with the ability to restore losses to hold objectives.

The masters pack leans extremely heavily towards packs that favor high numbers, so I'm confident I can do well with it. I've got a blog on here where I'll post all the matchups and how the games go.

Looks interesting , no Bladegheists ? Any reason?

how do the Chainrasp Horde perform ? I have 80 of them painted but they sort lack the killer punch I want, and tend to die easy ?

[EnixLHQ]

6 minutes ago, Keith said:

How do the Chainrasp Horde perform ? I have 80 of them painted but they sort lack the killer punch I want, and tend to die easy ?

In Nighthaunt taking The Condemned battalion makes them one of our best battlelines. In LoG you can still get a good punch out of them by pairing them with a Spirit Torment, a Guardian of Souls, a Necromancer, or any combination of these.

[AidenNicol]

5 minutes ago, Keith said:

Looks interesting , no Bladegheists ? Any reason?

how do the Chainrasp Horde perform ? I have 80 of them painted but they sort lack the killer punch I want, and tend to die easy ?

Chainrasps dramatically overperform every time I use them. Personal favorite is stringing them out in front of my force to ward off alpha strikes against Slaanesh/Daughters of Khaine/Khorne, then immediately resummoning the unit in the following turn. Bladegheists in their current state really aren't doing it for me. The unit of 20 (which you want to maximize footprint and efficiency with the resurrection) just doesn't contribute a set role that Chainrasps (retreating over units to tag objectives), Grimghast Reapers (threat removal, high value threat unit) and Dreadscythe Harridans (body clearers) can't do better. Bladegheist are definitely better when you're Nighthaunt with the Shroudguard, but in Legion of Grief they're too overcosted and undersupported.

[EnixLHQ]

I don't quite agree with the Bladegheist assessment.

I'm still playing around with different compositions, but I'm finding that smaller multiple groups, like 2x10, with heroes that bubble buff, like GoS and KoSof, not only allows you to still deal impressive damage but also protects the unit from being completely wiped on the counter. With their 8" move and thinking ahead you'll probably have a gravesite and your general not too far away to replenish either unit that's lost.

[AidenNicol]

1 minute ago, EnixLHQ said:

I don't quite agree with the Bladegheist assessment.

I'm still playing around with different compositions, but I'm finding that smaller multiple groups, like 2x10, with heroes that bubble buff, like GoS and KoSof, not only allows you to still deal impressive damage but also protects the unit from being completely wiped on the counter. With their 8" move and thinking ahead you'll probably have a gravesite and your general not too far away to replenish either unit that's lost.

I agree that they're good, i just prefer having a single unit of 30 Grimghast Reapers that just doesn't need any support do achieve the same results. As i said, if i was running Nighthaunt I'd be taking my 2 units of 10 with Reikenor and Shroudguard, but in Grief i want value (and numbers) for points.

[Aaranis]

I figured having smaller blobs helped with the summon back ability. I mean with big blocks you can still have a handful alive after a big scrap, whereas a smaller unit would've died outright, allowing you to summon it back right after instead of losing a turn sending the rest of the blob to their deaths (these revenants can't catch a rest). But maybe I'm underestimating the lethality of the 2000 pts scene too. If I faced this I'd try to leave the units almost dead to prevent resurrection.

As for the Bladegheist debate I was surprised too but it made me run proper Mathammer to take the 6s to Wound from the Harridans into account and the results are as following assuming I'm not too awful at maths and did the right method:

Spoiler

 

10 Harridans on the charge = 31A*0,5*0,66 = 10,33*(7/6) = 12,05 D
10 Bladegheists on the charge = 30A*0,66*0,66 = 13,33 D

Now we apply 1 CP to give them +1 to Hit from the list's KoS:

10 Harridans on the charge = 31A*0,66*0,66 = 13,77*(7/6) = 16,07 D
10 Bladegheists on the charge = 30A*0,83*0,66 = 16,66 D

Now we apply 2  CP to give them +2 to Hit from the list's KoS:

10 Harridans on the charge = 31A*0,83*0,66 = 17,22*(7/6) = 20,09 D
10 Bladegheists on the charge = 30A*0,83*0,66 = 16,66 D

 

So the Harridans are on par with the Bladegheists when given +1 to Hit, and plain better when given +2 to Hit. Now we can argue that Bladegheists require less investment in CP as they do just fine with a Chainghast/Spirit Torment to support them, but Harridans don't need to retreat/charge to keep their number of attacks (which is not really a problem for a Flying army but there might be issues when double turned) and can get -1 to be Hit when the attacker is under 7 Bravery, improving their resilience. So in the case of this list, which produces a lot of CP, burning 2 of them/turn to maximise their damage output seems perfectly viable.

I'm more curious about the Grimghasts as to me they just look like worst Bladegheists, is their 2" range really that important ? Never played them so honest question. I also understand that getting full rerolls to Hit just with an enemy unit of 5+ models is a boon when operating by themselves.

[EnixLHQ]

47 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

I figured having smaller blobs helped with the summon back ability. I mean with big blocks you can still have a handful alive after a big scrap, whereas a smaller unit would've died outright, allowing you to summon it back right after instead of losing a turn sending the rest of the blob to their deaths (these revenants can't catch a rest). But maybe I'm underestimating the lethality of the 2000 pts scene too. If I faced this I'd try to leave the units almost dead to prevent resurrection.

As for the Bladegheist debate I was surprised too but it made me run proper Mathammer to take the 6s to Wound from the Harridans into account and the results are as following assuming I'm not too awful at maths and did the right method:

  Hide contents

 

10 Harridans on the charge = 31A*0,5*0,66 = 10,33*(7/6) = 12,05 D
10 Bladegheists on the charge = 30A*0,66*0,66 = 13,33 D

Now we apply 1 CP to give them +1 to Hit from the list's KoS:

10 Harridans on the charge = 31A*0,66*0,66 = 13,77*(7/6) = 16,07 D
10 Bladegheists on the charge = 30A*0,83*0,66 = 16,66 D

Now we apply 2  CP to give them +2 to Hit from the list's KoS:

10 Harridans on the charge = 31A*0,83*0,66 = 17,22*(7/6) = 20,09 D
10 Bladegheists on the charge = 30A*0,83*0,66 = 16,66 D

 

So the Harridans are on par with the Bladegheists when given +1 to Hit, and plain better when given +2 to Hit. Now we can argue that Bladegheists require less investment in CP as they do just fine with a Chainghast/Spirit Torment to support them, but Harridans don't need to retreat/charge to keep their number of attacks (which is not really a problem for a Flying army but there might be issues when double turned) and can get -1 to be Hit when the attacker is under 7 Bravery, improving their resilience. So in the case of this list, which produces a lot of CP, burning 2 of them/turn to maximise their damage output seems perfectly viable.

I'm more curious about the Grimghasts as to me they just look like worst Bladegheists, is their 2" range really that important ? Never played them so honest question. I also understand that getting full rerolls to Hit just with an enemy unit of 5+ models is a boon when operating by themselves.

Pretty sure you can't stack two of KoS's +1 hit auras, even if from two Knights. A unit can only receive a buff with a unique name from one source at a time unless specifically noted.

But yes, Harridans hit hard and are great models. The only reason to choose Bladegheists over them, really, is the attack profile. In terms of Mathhammering it, # attacks > extra damage/MW on 6 = to hit > to wound, and I think people generally feel the more certain 3+/3+ profile, and the KoS/GoS ability to make those into 2+/2+ is worth the extra points. I'm in that boat, myself. Do that same math with +1 attacks, +1 hit, and +1 wound and you'll see why.  And then add in the reroll factor; Bladegeists get to reroll everything in the aura of a Chainghast even without a Spirit Torment on the board, where as the Harridans would need a Spirit Torment just to get reroll 1s. It's a difference of 40 points less to set this up with the Bladegheists.

But math alone doesn't win games, sadly. 

@AidenNicol has a point that a blob of 30 Reapers is hard to erase from the board. And, if your opponents have units with 5 or more in them then I agree that this is very attractive, since those Reapers will be dishing out the hurt for several combats. Paired with the Necromancer and/or another healer and it might be enough sustain. Points-wise, 420 points for 30 reapers also costs less than 500 for 20+10 Bladegheists (though I'd never run that kind of split) or 540 for 15+15.

My argument is only about the size of the units. Is a maxed blob of X unit is better than smaller blobs of Y unit for various reasons. Depending on what you put on the table and if you're sending them in with the units, how much healing can you do to a unit per turn vs popping a CP to bring a smaller one back again and again?

So far I have noticed two real big issues with gravesites and unit size. The first is zoning. You've got a 9" aura, less the amount your general is taking up, to put a resurrected unit back. If it's a clean site, great, but as soon as an enemy unit starts getting in close you also have the 9" rule against setting up near them to worry about. If you're fighting an opponent who can deep strike or brings in small objective camper units, you'll have a hard time here.

Second, once a unit goes down if you don't have something else to screen the oncoming units your heroes are next. When I've ran full units against the more spiky brick walls like Hammerhal this was lethal for me. I have a spawn, move, run in order to get close and if your opponent is playing for space that won't be enough. Basically, I'm arguing that if you bring 2+x10s to a fight, your opponent now has to make the tactical choice of committing their entire attack/counter on one unit, or risk splitting attacks and not wiping them both out. And since that puts the pressure on them it's more stressful for them when you bring a unit back and can get it into combat again before they could finish off the other one.

This weekend I plan on trying exactly this strategy at 1500 points.

[Aaranis]

36 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

Pretty sure you can't stack two of KoS's +1 hit auras, even if from two Knights. A unit can only receive a buff with a unique name from one source at a time unless specifically noted.

But yes, Harridans hit hard and are great models. The only reason to choose Bladegheists over them, really, is the attack profile. In terms of Mathhammering it, # attacks > extra damage/MW on 6 = to hit > to wound, and I think people generally feel the more certain 3+/3+ profile, and the KoS/GoS ability to make those into 2+/2+ is worth the extra points. I'm in that boat, myself. Do that same math with +1 attacks, +1 hit, and +1 wound and you'll see why.  And then add in the reroll factor; Bladegeists get to reroll everything in the aura of a Chainghast even without a Spirit Torment on the board, where as the Harridans would need a Spirit Torment just to get reroll 1s. It's a difference of 40 points less to set this up with the Bladegheists.

Nothing prevents it that I know of, when a same unit can't receive the buff twice it's explicitly noted, like the KoSoES's one, which states it can't benefit from this command ability more than once per phase. 

As for the buffs, if both units, getting +2 to Hit from the KoS, receive the same buffs (reroll to Hit and +1 to Wound) they'll both cap at 2+ reroll 1s/2+ so the Harridans still beat the Gheists on the condition the Harridans get +2 to Hit, otherwise I agree, a Spirit Torment buffs a vanilla Bladegheist better than a vanilla Harridan. 

There's also the argument that they're a tad cheaper, capping at 280 pts for 20 against 320 pts for 20 Bladegheists, and the -1 to Hit which may or may not be into play, but when working it helps your lines' durability considerably.

For my own conclusion I prefer Bladegheists for their reliability without much support, but I'll certainly try Harridans one of these days with a list built around it, preferably in a Bravery debuffing list.

[Spears]

Having only played Nh and not LoG there is definitely room for any of the three 32mm units.  Harridans with two command points popped on them pretty much the same as Bladegheists stood near a spirit torment. In an army that wants command points for summoning spending two on hit bonuses is a reasonable investment.

Trying to get those bases into combat when at 20 models is a bit of an ask though, and with those damn crawlers knocking about you need to be conscious of standing in two rows. Which is where Grimghasts step in, that reach is a big deal. Ultimately take whichever one you like the look of imo.

[Aaranis]

Spoiler

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds (100)
Spirit Torment (120)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Vassal of the Craven King
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 75

Wrote the following list to train for a small little 1000 pts tournament here in my Warhammer Store. Any opinions on this ? It's a simple attrition list, with the mobile Dreadblade bringing units backs and teleporting them where needed. The 3 missions will require good mobility so I figured the Hexwraiths and the teleportation trick will be really needed. Chainrasps occupy the center/block the mean stuff, Bladegheists kamikaze strike in waves, Hexwraiths go for backline units or harassing objectives, and they're summonable too.

I figure the hardest part for me still is to place the graves on the right spots, far enough from the enemies so that they're not blocked (Chainrasps will see to that too) but close enough for my summoned units to charge in the same phase. Hoping I won't see too many ranged army too, as the only protection my Dreadblade will get is Look Out Sir and scenery.

[EnixLHQ]

11 hours ago, Aaranis said:

Nothing prevents it that I know of, when a same unit can't receive the buff twice it's explicitly noted, like the KoSoES's one, which states it can't benefit from this command ability more than once per phase. 

Q: Can I spend 2 or more command points to allow the same 
model to use the same command ability more than once in the 
same phase?
A: Yes, unless specifically noted otherwise.

Per the most updated FAQs, you're right. That changes things a bit.

I think I need to buy more Harridans.

[Aaranis]

The Battleforce is here to make your dreams come true !

[EnixLHQ]

13 hours ago, Aaranis said:

Nothing prevents it that I know of, when a same unit can't receive the buff twice it's explicitly noted, like the KoSoES's one, which states it can't benefit from this command ability more than once per phase. 

Looks like we might need a judge ruling on this, with citation.

The FAQ I sourced says the ability can be used more than once, but not that the effect can overlap. And the ability itself does not specifically say, nor contain words like "any", that would prevent the effect stacking.

However, both the raging wars over similar abilities on this very forum in other threads, as well as my own local GW's certified judge, all cite that the current "Rules of One" prevent the stacking. Specifically, "a unique named ability cannot affect a unit more than once". But, that judge couldn't find the specific passage. He thinks it's in the GHB. I'm currently trying to find it.

[AidenNicol]

On 11/16/2019 at 11:46 AM, EnixLHQ said:

Looks like we might need a judge ruling on this, with citation.

The FAQ I sourced says the ability can be used more than once, but not that the effect can overlap. And the ability itself does not specifically say, nor contain words like "any", that would prevent the effect stacking.

However, both the raging wars over similar abilities on this very forum in other threads, as well as my own local GW's certified judge, all cite that the current "Rules of One" prevent the stacking. Specifically, "a unique named ability cannot affect a unit more than once". But, that judge couldn't find the specific passage. He thinks it's in the GHB. I'm currently trying to find it.

With regards to the query of whether or not it is legal, as currently it has NOT been FAQ'd to be illegal and no specific ruling exists against it, with the only detractors against it ruling from how they "think" it should be, it has been allowed in my local meta as it's hardly gamebreaking as only two threats that are commonly run that can benefit from it (Dreadscythe Harridans and Grimghast Reapers) actually hit on 4's, and it's detrimental on Reapers anyway due to "rerolls before modifiers". 

With regards to the questions on Grimghast being worth it, you'll find that extra range really brings them into their own. There is a very good reason why they specifically catapulted Legions of Nagash to being the top army alongside Daughters of Khaine in late 2018.

[AidenNicol]

On 11/16/2019 at 8:44 AM, EnixLHQ said:

Q: Can I spend 2 or more command points to allow the same 
model to use the same command ability more than once in the 
same phase?
A: Yes, unless specifically noted otherwise.

Per the most updated FAQs, you're right. That changes things a bit.

I think I need to buy more Harridans.

I bought 4 boxes when i started playing Legion of Grief and got them painted immediately. Harridans always seem to pull through for me even when seasoned tournament units like Grimghast Reapers and Bladegheist Revenants come up short.

[EnixLHQ]

Update from the weekend. Had more people show up than expected, so it was a 1k game instead of 1.5k.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Vassal of the Craven King
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Spell: Dread Withering
Knight of Shrouds (100)
Necromancer (130)
- Spell: Wail of Doom

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Suffocating Gravetide (20)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 60

Long story short; I lost. By one point. Not bad for my third serious attempt at LoG.

Long story longer, here's my strat and my musing as to where I did well and where I didn't.

Spoiler

First thing's first, before anyone points it out, I don't have any Harridans. As soon as I do I'll be running them, but until then my Bladegheists are my workbois.

List creation: For 1k I probably could have stood not to have a full 4 leaders. I feel exposed if I don't load up, though, and looking back over the performance of the list I think I made the right choice. I went up against a Stormcast army who focused on ranged, who sprung the list on me right before we played, so my list was hastily put together. Sort of a mash of what I was trying to do (overlapping synergies) and playing for objectives. Again, lost by 1 point, so I think I did well enough.

Deployment: This is where I tend to make my first mistake. I'm so used to NH being able to use From the Underworlds whenever I put something in reserve and putting anything into a gravesite feels like I'm taking a larger risk than necessary with the greater restriction to bring them out, so for a 1k game, I elected not to do that. Also, my gravesite deployments also have sucked in the past, my opponent able to zone me out of them over the course of a game. This time around I decided that because the map was smaller I would keep one grave toward the back (not all the way to be caught unprotected) and group the other three along the objective line. We played a map where the objectives were lined up across our deployment territories, so the second one in my own zone was close to the line, and the other two near either side objective. Basically, since all of the fighting was going to be center-board, having 3 gravesites there to overlap their heal felt like a good idea to me.

For the actual deployment, I went second. I placed one set of Bladegheists, the KoS and the GoS with them, opposite the Stormcast general and retinue. This was for one side objective. The other blob of 'gheists and the Necromancer deployed near the other side objective. Seeing my opponent put a group in reserve I knew it was going to be for the center objective, so I put both blobs of Chainrasps to either side of my center graveyard to both screen my general and advance in the middle.

Gameplay: He finished deployment first and elected I take the first turn. From the beginning, I was in range for his ranged attacks, so I took full moves to be aggressive and get into combat early. My rolls were middling, putting several wounds on his general on one side of the board, and on the other, I all-but-eliminated his melee defensive line protecting his ballistas. His counter turn I expected him to wreck me, and though I did take some damage my strategy of having multiple small units in play at the same time worked in my favor. He tried to dedicate enough attacks to wipe out my Bladegheists and under-guessed, leaving a couple behind. He made the same mistake again later against the Chainraps. I lost the roll for turn 2 so he got the double, but again the splitting his attacks proved useful for me. He spent his combat trying to finish off my last two 'gheists which left my KoS/GoS empowered 'rasps to tear into his line on the one side of the board (2 CP 'raps took a larger bite than he expected), and on the other he full-on tried to wipe out my 'rasps, which he did, but the 'gheists kept him locked down and in trouble until my resurrected 'rasps could make their return. I weathered 2 continuous rounds of unanswered ranged attacks and tons of strong melee losing only one full unit and my KoS. The gravesites+Necromancer healed up my 'gheists to full and it never felt like my attack power wained over the course of the game. Rinse and repeat.

The objectives of the battleplan were "whoever controls the most objectives gets 3, the other gets 1" and "whoever deals the most wounds gets 3, the other 1". He got wounds each battleround, but I had objectives most of the time, losing them only at the end.

What went right: The overlapping buff bubble of KoS and GoS made my Bladegheists have 2A/2+/2+/-1/1 for 1 CP. Charging for the extra attack was easy enough. If my 'gheists were lower on firepower, a second CP made my Chainrasps have a 2A/2+/3+/0/1. Having a RR1 on wounds at 10 'rasps was enough pressure to make my opponent choose to spill attacks onto them instead of wiping out the 'gheists. It also made him target my KoS, which our heroes may not be exactly tough they can soak up a few wounds and he went down ensuring my attacking units could put out their damage.

What went wrong: My initial deployment was too thin. The goal of my list was to form a roaming band of 'gheists backed with at least KoS/GoS to destroy units one-by-one. But, I felt pressured not to leave an area of the board open to my opponent. Looking back, if I had stuck to my original plan giving up one objective to him for free likely wouldn't have been a problem, maybe I could have wiped out his first set of objective campers, deal with his Cycle of the Storm, and moved on to the second leaving the Chainrasps as my own campers, all while using my gravesites to heal back from ranged attacks. I don't know, but that seems sound.

My second mistake was dedicating too many resources trying to kill his neigh-unkillable general. I put both my 'gheists and 'rasps against him, but he was able to use his retinue to zone off enough attacks from hitting him directly that between that, his good save, and his wound shrug I just couldn't drop him. He was on an objective, so I needed to get him down anyway, but if I had not deployed so thin I think he could have been dropped early on. It wasn't worth the loss of my KoS, either. Maybe keeping him back to ensure buffs every combat would have been better than hoping he could take that general down to heal his damage. It was a bet that didn't payout.

Summary: Deployment - I am very inexperienced when it comes to Legions of anything, so I am still getting over feeling over-extended or over-exposed for basic setup and deployment. That being said, playing Nighthaunt models I am used to, so once the game starts I do well enough that I think my true area of improvement is deployment. Once I figure out how I will finally be able to fight level instead of uphill. Edge to NH until I learn how to deploy as LoG.

Healing/Resurrection - Using most of my gravesites to be overlapping healing pools where combat was sure to take place, or where I was going to take ranged damage, was a real win. Leaving just one gravesite back for unit resurrection and protecting my general there was a better strategy than giving myself several graves I could run away to. This allowed me to keep the focus on the board's center instead of the edges, and kept my opponent focused on trying to remove my units with no way to slip in. This is a clear win for LoG.

Buffs/Debuffs - Overlapping synergies is very powerful. If I hadn't mucked my deployment, I think I would have been roving death on the board. This is possible for both NH and LoG, but becomes necessary in LoG while there are no battalions available. Battalions are a chance or bandaid for a bad start. LoG's Dread Withering spell helps, but a spell can never replace an always-on buff. Point, NH.

Wound Output - I felt the loss of not having Wave of Terror. Twice, maybe three times I noticed getting 10 or more on a charge. That vs the one time Danse was successful shows a very big loss of damage potential. The chance to land WoT is 16.67% on any given roll. You can spend CP to reroll a charge, and if you take an Aetherquartz it's a 33.34% chance to get the CP back, and it's debatable if CP available to NH is best spent on this or not. Meanwhile Danse is 72.23% to cast successfully, with only one chance at it, less up to 55.56% chance to have it unbound, for a total of *drumroll* roughly 16.67% chance of having it actually take. Once. The real chances are probably higher, but I lack the math. And even when it does go off the second attack is likely going to be less powerful than the first, because why wouldn't your opponent counter-attack the unit that's going to fight again? Unless someone can point out a way LoG can match that kind of damage/chances at damage, I think the point is clearly in the NH camp.

Total: NH 3/LoG 2

Are gravesites really why LoG is considered better than NH? Enough for some people to say NH is C tier and LoG is A?

Edited November 18, 2019 by EnixLHQ