AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion

[Haph]

1 hour ago, Sauriv said:

Gravesites isn't a terrain piece, it's a point often marked with something. It doesn't block models or anything. Use what you want but remember that it shouldn't effect the battlefield more than the rules LoG has. So even if you use something big you should measure from the middle of it anyway. 

I think they're referring to the Signature Mausoleum warscroll, which allows LoN to use it as an additional gravesite.

[Harken]

This

[AHexInScarletRed]

9 hours ago, Haph said:

I think they're referring to the Signature Mausoleum warscroll, which allows LoN to use it as an additional gravesite.

I can't find this Warscroll - I know that it's legit and stuff, but where do I get the rules from?

[XReN]

25 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

I can't find this Warscroll - I know that it's legit and stuff, but where do I get the rules from?

Tried Warhammer App?

[EMMachine]

10 hours ago, Haph said:

I think they're referring to the Signature Mausoleum warscroll, which allows LoN to use it as an additional gravesite.

The warscroll doesn't say that they are additional gravesites. Only that the Mausoleum interacts as a Graveside when using the "unquiet minions" Battle Trait. For all other reasons it isn't a Gravesite.

30 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

I can't find this Warscroll - I know that it's legit and stuff, but where do I get the rules from?

The Warscroll was in the Generals Handbook 2018. Other ways to get it should be either the App like @XReN said or the in GWs Webshop should be a point "rules" when you go to the article, next to the articles description.

[Haph]

Thanks for clarifying! I'm new and don't have everything down ,100% yet

[Uvatha]

Hello all,

Any feedback is welcome about the Legion of Grief army list below

• The main idea is to use several  bravery debuff (natural ones and spells casted by Reikenor) with the Tomb Banshees and Crypt Flayers screams to inflict mortal wounds. Here below I tried to figure out how to deploy the army and made some statistics about how many MW in average could be inflicted, depending on how many of the bravery debuff apply to the target(s). I took an initial bravery of 8 as an average (like SC, not as good as Death,  not as bad as Skaven ^^).
• Like in other armies, the wolves in pack of 10 should run to objectives.
• There is no really 'hammer' unit except the 40 Skeleton which also actually play as anvil because they can be healed by gravesites and necro, as well as buffed with a Dance Macabre. If these Skeletons got destroyed they can be called back for 1 CP.
• If a VIP target get in range then the Skeletons can also be flown over by bigger guys (Morghast & Crypt Flayers) and actually the Morghasts can already hit at 2" through them.
• Some aspects I am not sure about:
  • Is a Necro a solid general with 5 Wounds and 6+ save only? (can't take Reikenor since then he doesn't get the command trait -2 Bravery). 
  • How to boost the Skeleton move (4)? Or is it enough to slowly crawl towards opponent's army as a wall, until the bravery MW dealers get in range?
  • Where to locate the gravesites around the army?

 

Allegiance: Legion of Grief

Leaders
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Tomb Banshee (80)
Tomb Banshee (80)
Tomb Banshee (80)
Tomb Banshee (80)
Necromancer (130)
- General
- Trait: Tragic Emanations 
- Artefact: Grave-sand Gem 
- Spell: Wail of Doom

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Dire Wolves (140)
10 x Dire Wolves (140)

Units
2 x Morghast Archai (200)
- Spirit Halberds
2 x Morghast Archai (200)
- Spirit Halberds
3 x Crypt Flayers (170)
- Allies
3 x Crypt Flayers (170)
- Allies

Endless Spells / Terrain
Horrorghast (60)
Suffocating Gravetide (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 340 / 400
Wounds: 156

Edited July 11, 2019 by Uvatha
swords replaced by Halberds for the Morgahst (didn't check before, Halberds were obvious for me :D)

[Sauriv]

44 minutes ago, Uvatha said:

Hello all,

Any feedback is welcome about the Legion of Grief army list below

• The main idea is to use several  bravery debuff (natural ones and spells casted by Reikenor) with the Tomb Banshees and Crypt Flayers screams to inflict mortal wounds. Here below I tried to figure out how to deploy the army and made some statistics about how many MW in average could be inflicted, depending on how many of the bravery debuff apply to the target(s). I took an initial bravery of 8 as an average (like SC, not as good as Death,  not as bad as Skaven ^^).
• Like in other armies, the wolves in pack of 10 should run to objectives.
• There is no really 'hammer' unit except the 40 Skeleton which also actually play as anvil because they can be healed by gravesites and necro, as well as buffed with a Dance Macabre. If these Skeletons got destroyed they can be called back for 1 CP.
• If a VIP target get in range then the Skeletons can also be flown over by bigger guys (Morghast & Crypt Flayers) and actually the Morghasts can already hit at 2" through them.
• Some aspects I am not sure about:
  • Is a Necro a solid general with 5 Wounds and 6+ save only? (can't take Reikenor since then he doesn't get the command trait -2 Bravery). 
  • How to boost the Skeleton move (4)? Or is it enough to slowly crawl towards opponent's army as a wall, until the bravery MW dealers get in range?
  • Where to locate the gravesites around the army?

 

Allegiance: Legion of Grief

Leaders
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Tomb Banshee (80)
Tomb Banshee (80)
Tomb Banshee (80)
Tomb Banshee (80)
Necromancer (130)
- General
- Trait: Tragic Emanations 
- Artefact: Grave-sand Gem 
- Spell: Wail of Doom

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Dire Wolves (140)
10 x Dire Wolves (140)

Units
2 x Morghast Archai (200)
- Spirit Halberds
2 x Morghast Archai (200)
- Spirit Halberds
3 x Crypt Flayers (170)
- Allies
3 x Crypt Flayers (170)
- Allies

Endless Spells / Terrain
Horrorghast (60)
Suffocating Gravetide (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 340 / 400
Wounds: 156

I do not believe you can take crypt flayers. LoG isn't part of the other LoN, so i guess we dont have allies. 

"Q: Is the Legion of Grief considered to be a Legion of Nagash? For example, can the Locus of Shyish ability be used for the Legion of Grief spell lores, or could a Necromancer take a spell from the Lore of the Deathmages? 

A: No to all questions." 

 

I would use a dreadblade harrow as general due to his mobility for summoning destroyed units and a teleport with that sweet - 2 bravery 

And i dont know about 2 endless spells with only 2 mages, could be hard to get them going properly. 

[Uvatha]

5 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

I do not believe you can take crypt flayers. LoG isn't part of the other LoN, so i guess we dont have allies. 

"Q: Is the Legion of Grief considered to be a Legion of Nagash? For example, can the Locus of Shyish ability be used for the Legion of Grief spell lores, or could a Necromancer take a spell from the Lore of the Deathmages? 

A: No to all questions." 

 

I would use a dreadblade harrow as general due to his mobility for summoning destroyed units and a teleport with that sweet - 2 bravery 

And i dont know about 2 endless spells with only 2 mages, could be hard to get them going properly. 

Thank you for the feedback!

Ah actually the Crypt Flayers are Mercenaries so it should be ok?

Good idea for the Dreadblade, probably more resistant and mobile, thank you!

[XReN]

19 minutes ago, Uvatha said:

Ah actually the Crypt Flayers are Mercenaries so it should be ok?

Yes, they are 100% viable as Mercenaries

[Pazour]

8 hours ago, Uvatha said:

Thank you for the feedback!

Ah actually the Crypt Flayers are Mercenaries so it should be ok?

Good idea for the Dreadblade, probably more resistant and mobile, thank you!

What if you swap one of the Morghast units for a Mortis Engine?

+1 to cast to get the spells off easier, another bravery attack (less damage but AOE), and a once per game AOE heal\DMG if needed.

Also, any reason to run the Flayers as 2x3 instead of 1x6? Single activation vs multiple might save you a bit of damage.

[Dauzy]

Hello, I don't know if we can play the GOS with Mortality Glass in the legion of grief.

It's write Nighthaunt but it's for the Keyword Nighthaunt or about the army ?

The Gos with MS doesn't appearin the pitched battle profil of Nighthaunt but as the keyword ?

So am I refer only to the keyword or to the nighaunt army ?

[Cr1m50n]

18 minutes ago, Dauzy said:

Hello, I don't know if we can play the GOS with Mortality Glass in the legion of grief.

It's write Nighthaunt but it's for the Keyword Nighthaunt or about the army ?

The Gos with MS doesn't appearin the pitched battle profil of Nighthaunt but as the keyword ?

So am I refer only to the keyword or to the nighaunt army ?

You Guardian of Souls w/ Mortality Glass is not legal in any army as it never got its points included in the new GHB or GHB errata. 

Sad as that is.. 

[AverageBoss]

Yep, GoSwMG is no more. Gaunt Summoner with Familiars also got dropped.

[Sauriv]

12 hours ago, Uvatha said:

Thank you for the feedback!

Ah actually the Crypt Flayers are Mercenaries so it should be ok?

Good idea for the Dreadblade, probably more resistant and mobile, thank you!

Oh, i have totally missed out on that mercenary band. Very nice. Good thing that we can help each other 😁

[RuneBrush]

16 hours ago, Cr1m50n said:

You Guardian of Souls w/ Mortality Glass is not legal in any army as it never got its points included in the new GHB or GHB errata. 

Sad as that is.. 

Will just correct this - Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass isn't legal under matched play army lists as it doesn't have an entry within the Pitched Battle booklet.  There's absolutely no reason why you can't use it in a friendly or at an event with the TO's consent.

And I do think this is super frustrating for a model less than a year old too!

17 hours ago, Dauzy said:

So am I refer only to the keyword or to the nighaunt army ?

Always the keyword for anything like this.

[Cr1m50n]

2 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Will just correct this - Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass isn't legal under matched play army lists as it doesn't have an entry within the Pitched Battle booklet.  There's absolutely no reason why you can't use it in a friendly or at an event with the TO's consent.

And I do think this is super frustrating for a model less than a year old too!

Always the keyword for anything like this.

Not to belabor the point but this is something I'm actually hoping you or someone else here could provide some insight on. 

The chain of events around rulings on this has me confused. Firstly in the general handbook 2019 itself it has a section of rules (pg. 58 I think??) that effectively rules out models without points in this book or newer publications. However it does as you say provide a stipulation that you can ask an opponent permission to have the model allowed. Easy enough. 

However once the errata released in the designer commentary. There is a question asking exactly the same question. "Can models without points in the ghb or ghb errata (note the absence of later publications as well) be used in matched play. To which the faq responds with a singular and confusing word. "No." 

Could anyone shed some light on this. Does the designer commentary overrule the ghb itself? As the simple "No" appears to remove our ability to ask permission to use the model. 

Thanks guys. 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Cr1m50n

[lare2]

21 minutes ago, Cr1m50n said:

Could anyone shed some light on this. Does the designer commentary overrule the ghb itself? As the simple "No" appears to remove our ability to ask permission to use the model. 

No rule is gonna stop me asking my friends if it's okay to use a model. Nor is a rule gonna stop me playing a model for matched play if my friends are cool with it. 

For tournies though... sayonara mortality glass. Wish I'd built mine with a lantern. 

[EMMachine]

38 minutes ago, lare2 said:

No rule is gonna stop me asking my friends if it's okay to use a model. Nor is a rule gonna stop me playing a model for matched play if my friends are cool with it. 

For tournies though... sayonara mortality glass. Wish I'd built mine with a lantern. 

Hm, after only one variant of the GoS has a pitched Battle profile, is there something holding you back of using the model with mortality glass as model with lantern?

[lare2]

32 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

Hm, after only one variant of the GoS has a pitched Battle profile, is there something holding you back of using the model with mortality glass as model with lantern?

I'd not have a problem with it (nor would the people I regularly play against) but the WYSIWYG crew would have my life. Doubt I'd get it past a TO either. 

[RuneBrush]

@Cr1m50n, pretty much @lare2 has hit the nail on the head.  If you're attending an event that has stated your army list needs to be "Matched Play" from the current (2019) generals handbook, then you're not going to be able to use your Mortality Glass as it has no points.  If the event is running WYSIWYG then your TO may be kind and allow you to run them as counts as "Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lanter", but I'd not put money on it - if it's not WYSIWYG then still check, but you should be fine to use the model with the Nightmare Lantern warscroll.

@EMMachine is completely right though - if I'm playing a matched play game round the club, I'll likely go "you guys happy for me to run my limited ed GoS?"

One other point (and I find this confusing as anything).  The Errata document is official changes to publications.  The Designers Commentary is frequently asked questions - so clarifications on how rules should play rather than modifications to them.  That's why it's a single "no" - basically reinforcing the rule in the Generals Handbook.

[Heijoshin]

I've seen a few lists for LoG being used with 2 units of 12 Mymourm Banshees being used. 

Does the spell eater ability increase their attack by 1 in total, or one for each model in the unit? 

[EMMachine]

17 minutes ago, Heijoshin said:

I've seen a few lists for LoG being used with 2 units of 12 Mymourm Banshees being used. 

Does the spell eater ability increase their attack by 1 in total, or one for each model in the unit? 

The rule adds one to the Attack Characteristic, so each model gets an additional attack.

[Heijoshin]

7 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

The rule adds one to the Attack Characteristic, so each model gets an additional attack.

Gotcha, thanks! 

In general, is the Mymourm pick to predictively counter some kind of magic meta that people are anticipating, or just because of the points changes that were made? 

[Qrow]

Just now, Heijoshin said:

Gotcha, thanks! 

In general, is the Mymourm pick to predictively counter some kind of magic meta that people are anticipating, or just because of the points changes that were made? 

LoG opened up the floor to the rest of the nighthaunt roster to LoN, with the ability to resurrect entire units it become way less of a risk to run expensive but flimsy units.

Another key point as that all these lists include a lot of endless spells, part of the plan is to use the myrmourns to dispell your own endless spells then bring back the casualties of those dispells with the gravemarkers. So while a lot of lists will include at least one spellcaster for the myrmouns, it is more self dependent.