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AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion


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1 minute ago, Joncharris13 said:

My understanding on the way it was read out- bear in mind I havent seen it myself- is that she only has to be the general if you take any 'Other' Mortachs.

Otherwise it reads as though she can be there but not the general- but Im sure this will get an FAQ fast, however doing this negates the bravery bomb and seems weird

Sadly it has the exact same wording as the other legions, so if you take olynder you must make her your general.

And yeah, it is extremely counterintuitive

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Just now, Qrow said:

Sadly it has the exact same wording as the other legions, so if you take olynder you must make her your general.

And yeah, it is extremely counterintuitive

Well that seems weirdly dumb!

So we take a bravery nuking army to help olynder and tomb banshess/harridans hit hard and we get penalised before release?  Theres gotta be more to this surely???????

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9 minutes ago, Joncharris13 said:

Well that seems weirdly dumb!

So we take a bravery nuking army to help olynder and tomb banshess/harridans hit hard and we get penalised before release?  Theres gotta be more to this surely???????

Yeah, there has been a large discussion on the nighthaunt post about it. If you take olynder you lose out on the only solid bravery debuff that you can get on LoG. While there is the spell, it goes off on an 8+, which is significantly more difficult than the spell deserves for just -d3 bravery.

The only other bravery debuff is the -1 allegiance trait, but nighthaunt has that as well and legion of blood gets that trait and others. All in all it is a very weird design, even of they have not meant it to be competative it is just... boring. You should want to take the mortarch in their own legion, not be penalised for it.

Edited by Qrow
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Yeah I like the idea of it- and it could run brilliantly without Olynder and the bravery nukes.

But I really want to be taking her- especially as her 'Lifting the veil' is a free resource against lower bravery and she is a double caster, thats before you ention it being her Legion!

I mean we have Reiknor to reliably cast that bravery spell but it just feels odd.

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What about also including Morghast for another -1 bravery?  

As for the LoG spell and Horrorgheist, I am considering The Grimhauler, a 2nd caster, a mortis engine and a corpse cart.  Let Reiknor handle the spell I need more that turn with a +3/+5 and the 2nd caster delivers the other one with a +2 to casting.  I like Olynder, but agree with others that she seems out of place in the new legion.  

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The tools are there to buff your magic game for bravery bombs but you would want to take Arkhan but then have to take Olynder and then hurt your bravery bombs.

I don't see this army as the bravery army people want it to be. I think its just a way to get regening myrmourns and bladegheists.  Cast an endless spell near the myrmourns, dispel it, us a GoS or something to heal the missing banshees, give them a KoSoS buff and send them to mess something up, Might want the mortality glass or cogs to add +10 inches to their threat range. Have a necro with danse macabre. Going this route you probably want the mortis engine. 

hit with like 8 banshee attacks a model. That rend -2 d3 damage with probably kill a couple big things. Your opponent kills them, hit with bladgheists, summon banshees etc. Against something with a 2+ save, banshees would do 16d3 wounds after saves.  Wish banshees moved faster, but bladeghiests would still hit hard too with a larger threat.

Does someone know if the LoG can take nighthaunts in their normal army or does it count as allies like any of the other Legions?

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1 minute ago, Equinox said:

What about also including Morghast for another -1 bravery?  

As for the LoG spell and Horrorgheist, I am considering The Grimhauler, a 2nd caster, a mortis engine and a corpse cart.  Let Reiknor handle the spell I need more that turn with a +3/+5 and the 2nd caster delivers the other one with a +2 to casting.  I like Olynder, but agree with others that she seems out of place in the new legion.  

Morghasts + skeleton warriors would equal -3 bravery... maybe I'm being too salty. Though legion of blood would still get the same effect...

Mortis engine and corpse cart would be 260 points, which may be slightly overkill, but would make it very reliable.

I will playtest for a while, my group has cleared me to use LoTR warriors of the dead to proxy skeletons (and still keep my army painted right), so I'll be trying 40 of them as my solid battleline. I just want to find a way to make dreadscythe harridan decent, and with a little work LoG might just do it.

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3 minutes ago, PFI said:

Does someone know if the LoG can take nighthaunts in their normal army or does it count as allies like any of the other Legions?

LoG can take nighthaunt as a normal part of the army, but not use NH battleline as LoG battleline units. You must use the normal LoN batteline options.

Edited by Qrow
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4 minutes ago, Qrow said:

LoG can take nighthaunt as a normal part of the army, but not use NH battleline as LoG battleline units. You must use the normal LoN batteline options.

I got the battalion problem, just needed to make sure their army rule wasn't a copy pasta of the other legions. Wish we could ally in a vampire. Arguably better than night of shrouds

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Looking through rules for battalions here and there I see nothing preventing the use of battalions based on specific allegiance abilities. If you can use all the warscrolls based on keyword, for example LoG allowing "nighthaunt" and you have the battalion with all "nighthaunt" units in it, I see no reason you can't take that in a LoG army.

Such as the Deathmarch battalion, that is not attached to any legion in the LoN book either, as long as the allegiance allows all the units in the battalion, you take them, and also the battalion at the added cost no problem. 

If anyone got specific FAQ to counter prove this, I'd like to see it, but I can't make out anything in the battletomes or core rules to prevent this.

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1 minute ago, Scurvydog said:

If anyone got specific FAQ to counter prove this, I'd like to see it, but I can't make out anything in the battletomes or core rules to prevent this.

It was mentioned somewhere here or in the nighthaunt discussion 

Q: If I include a Chainguard, Execution Horde, or Death Stalkers warscroll battalion in a Legions of Nagash army, is the battalion (and the units in it) an ally? A: Yes.

This is because battalions got errated somewhere that they no longer just require the units in them to take them. They are treated as the same allegiance as the book that took them. Since you aren't making a nighthaunt allegiance but a LoG allegiance, the battalions and any units in them benefitting from it would probably take up your ally points and be too expensive to use. Its not that you can't take them. Just they cost too many points .

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11 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Looking through rules for battalions here and there I see nothing preventing the use of battalions based on specific allegiance abilities. If you can use all the warscrolls based on keyword, for example LoG allowing "nighthaunt" and you have the battalion with all "nighthaunt" units in it, I see no reason you can't take that in a LoG army.

Such as the Deathmarch battalion, that is not attached to any legion in the LoN book either, as long as the allegiance allows all the units in the battalion, you take them, and also the battalion at the added cost no problem. 

If anyone got specific FAQ to counter prove this, I'd like to see it, but I can't make out anything in the battletomes or core rules to prevent this.

Core rules' Designer's Commentary Page 8:

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)? A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion. In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle)

Nighthaunt WBs have Nighthaunt allegiance, I haven't seen LoG rules yet since I'm not that interested in them and rather wait for the book, but if there are no exceptions to what I quoted from FAQ mentioned in LoG - then you can't take NH Battalions as part of core LoG. Currently the only exceprion are Beastmen battalions that give marks of chaos to units in it and reasons for that are unknown 

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@PFI

You have it right. Just read through the LoN section on battalions, no matter how much I may wish it were different it clearly states that you can't.

The only hope I can see is them being errata'd in, or GW specifying that when they say "Can only include units that have one or more of the following keywords..." it includes battalions of those factions along with units.

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Does anyone know if LoG uses the same battlelines as the legions of Nagash list? I'm not sure its mentioned anywhere what exactly counts as what.

Edit nevermind, realized that grimghasts and such were only battleline in a nighthaunt army if its a nighthaunt army. Forgot ruins my point XD Wanted to take a big unit of grims as a battleline and skimp on 2 units of dogos for my other 2. Sigh.

Edited by PFI
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It may not be too bad really, though they do need to desperately FAQ some things.

Such as:

• Can bravery go into the negative? (this needs confirmation ASAP as it will happen and frequently in LoG)

• Does LoG have access to any allies? (Terrorghiest is generic DEATH keyworded, if we can take even generic DEATH he will be amazing)

• Do the nighthaunt battalions gain the LoG keyword in addition to the units? (probs not, but solid clarification would be nice and we can hope)

• Will locus of shyish activate with the LoG lore? (Can't see it being too OP so lets hope)

 

Any others that need to be FAQ'd asap?

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9 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

Guys. Guys. Stay with me here. 

4 Mortis Engines. Reiknors and Banshees in the middle, flanked by Morghasts, with a KoS/Dreadblade in the middle, bubble wrapped by Dire Wolves. 

Welcome to the Mortis Castle.

Do the casting buff stack? Because with 4d3 mortal wounds and +4 to cast this is a scary castle.

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7 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said:

Do the casting buff stack? Because with 4d3 mortal wounds and +4 to cast this is a scary castle.

The casting may not stack, but the Mortal Wound bubble does; and even better, the Reliquary ability can heal other Mortis Engines and Heros, while also damaging the enemy. Properly set up, you can do a almost guranteed 8d3 MW, plus how ever many mortal wounds your Banshees do.

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Banners from deathrattle units also provide -1 bravery, so sprinkle that in as well.. Anything that does not absolutely overwhelm the entire castle will just disappear the following turn, jeez. It will probably lose the objective game though, a wise opponent will just stay well away  the maximum 9" of the aura.

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4 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Banners from deathrattle units also provide -1 bravery, so sprinkle that in as well.. Anything that does not absolutely overwhelm the entire castle will just disappear the following turn, jeez. It will probably lose the objective game though, a wise opponent will just stay well away  the maximum 9" of the aura.

Keep in mind, Mortis Engines have a pretty speedy movement of 14"; if he keeps moving, out of range, than I think an appropriate risk would be for the Mortis Engine and your heros to fly over the chaff and go for after them.

And depnding on certain missions, avoiding a giant bubble of doom is easier said tham done for a lot of armies; another factor to remember is how cheap Mortis Ejgines are. At only 180 points per engine, while taking up a pretty hefty proportion of your points, that still only comes up to 720 total before heros.  Thats still over half of your points that can go into more mobile units capable of taking the fight else where or defending. A block of Grimghasts or Bladegiests can easily slot into this army, and provide a sticky horde where needed.

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I asked about Warscroll battalions on the AOS community Facebook page and got a responce which was very much so a non-answer but it seems to me that might mean something coming with GHB2019 for rule changes on them.

 

Quoted:

My question:

Question for those who would know, for the sake of special factions, can a list include warscroll battalions from the armies who are included as acceptable additions to the faction?

Example: Can Lethisian Defenders included battalions from Stormcast Eternals, or for Legion of Grief include Shrieker Host as the Legion of Grief includes Nighthaunt in it.

Their answer:

Hi Adrienne, we don't have any details on that yet, but hopefully it'll become clear over the next few weeks.

Edited by Tohshi Ydithe
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16 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

I assume only "always" Battleline units.

This is it's own allegiance, it's not Nighthaunt nor is it LoN (though the latter doesn't matter since that really only affects Grand Host of Nagash).

Would love an exception for Spirit hosts for that Legion

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