AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion

[Aaranis]

I played 12 Myrmourn Banshees the other day and even though the match up was really tough (120 Skeletons, Arkhan and Necromancer) I loved them. The ability to easily unbind an endless spell is really great to give some breathing room to your mages, and they get +1A in the process. D3 MWs is no trouble as you can easily get them back at the same time with your gravesites, and even use this to gain a few inches of movement by placing them wherever you want.

Playing a mounted KoS to give them +1A can be even more deadly, and with a little luck on your 5+ CP rolls you'll still manage to give them +2 to Hit. 36A at 2+/3+/-2/d3 can kill anything.

Reapers are great horde killers, they're in the same category as Bladegheists but really only shine against 5+ models units. Bladegheists can kill easily anything on the charge with a simple Spirit Torment to give them rerolls, but aren't as good in long fights. In the dozen games I had with Bladegheists in NH and LoG only twice did I manage to retreat and charge because they get focused and killed easily.

[The_Dudemeister]

2 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

-1 to be hit by enemy units within 3" if their bravery characteristic is 5 or lower. This combines with NH's natural -1 to bravery aura. So, unless your enemy can buff their bravery or ignore your debuff, if they bring a 6 bravery unit to a fight they will suffer a -1 to hit the DHs.

It's 6 or more. So even units that come with a bravery characteristic of 7 will get the -1 to hit treatment. 👌

That's important because 7 bravery is usually the highest you get for regular units apart from Death, Daemons and Seraphon. All those Stormcast, Witch Aelves, Iron Guts and what have you are Bravery 7 and still get the penalty without a buff.

Also something I played wrong for the longest time... I thought the opponent gets -1 to hit THEM. But nope, that's a general debuff which makes it so much stronger.

Edited December 2, 2019 by The_Dudemeister

[Keith]

1 hour ago, The_Dudemeister said:

It's 6 or more. So even units that come with a bravery characteristic of 7 will get the -1 to hit treatment. 👌

That's important because 7 bravery is usually the highest you get for regular units apart from Death, Daemons and Seraphon. All those Stormcast, Witch Aelves, Iron Guts and what have you are Bravery 7 and still get the penalty without a buff.

Also something I played wrong for the longest time... I thought the opponent gets -1 to hit THEM. But nope, that's a general debuff which makes it so much stronger.

Oops I was wrong

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Keith

[AidenNicol]

Just now, Keith said:

The Harrowing Shriek only works against a bravery "characteristic"  of 5 , so if they have bravery 6 or more it doesnt work.

I don't think the debuff for being legion of grief modifies their "characteristic" on the warscroll ?

Respectfully, you understand how modifiers are meant to work? Because that's the whole point. The LoG (and Nighthaunt if you're that way inclined)  debuff makes it so you can tage Bravery 7 (Aelves, some Stormcast, the odd Chaos non-daemon) with -1 to hit as well as the more cowardly races (orks, skaven, litigation lawyers). 

[Keith]

12 minutes ago, AidenNicol said:

Respectfully, you understand how modifiers are meant to work? Because that's the whole point. The LoG (and Nighthaunt if you're that way inclined)  debuff makes it so you can tage Bravery 7 (Aelves, some Stormcast, the odd Chaos non-daemon) with -1 to hit as well as the more cowardly races (orks, skaven, litigation lawyers). 

Yeah you are correct , I just read the "Aura of Grief" again and says it modifies the characteristic.

Oops

I did say I didn't THINK

But I still dont see how a -1 debuff vs Bravery 7 makes Dreadscythe Harridans -1 to be hit ?

Edited December 2, 2019 by Keith

[phlp]

question regarding the knight of shrouds on foot and his command ability:

If this model is your general and uses this command ability, then in the combat phase of this turn, add 1 to hit rolls for friendly Nighthaunt models while they are wholly within 9" of it.

is there an errata which removes the part "is your general"  - or why do a lot of people use dreadblade harrow as general and still use KoS as normal hero.

 

[AidenNicol]

 

1 minute ago, phlp said:

question regarding the knight of shrouds on foot and his command ability:

If this model is your general and uses this command ability, then in the combat phase of this turn, add 1 to hit rolls for friendly Nighthaunt models while they are wholly within 9" of it.

is there an errata which removes the part "is your general"  - or why do a lot of people use dreadblade harrow as general and still use KoS as normal hero.

 

You're looking at an outdated version of the warscroll there chief, that's the Malign Sorcery era KoS well before the Nighthaunt book came out.

[Keith]

3 minutes ago, phlp said:

question regarding the knight of shrouds on foot and his command ability:

If this model is your general and uses this command ability, then in the combat phase of this turn, add 1 to hit rolls for friendly Nighthaunt models while they are wholly within 9" of it.

is there an errata which removes the part "is your general"  - or why do a lot of people use dreadblade harrow as general and still use KoS as normal hero.

 

Yeah the warscroll is different in the Nighthaunt book.

Spectral Overseer: In life, the Knight of Shrouds
commanded legions of devoted soldiers. In death,
he turns his military genius to the command of
shrieking spirits and vengeful phantasms.
You can use this command ability at the start of
the combat phase. If you do so, pick a friendly
model with this command ability. Add 1 to hit
rolls for friendly NIGHTHAUNT units while
they are wholly within 12" of that model in that
combat phase.

[phlp]

oooops.

thanks!

[EnixLHQ]

 <---- "unless" and "6 or more"

Legion of Grief - Aura of Grief: Subtract 1 from the Bravery characteristic of enemy units while they are within 6" of any friendly Legion of Grief units.

Nighthaunt - Aura of Dread: Subtract 1 from the Bravery characteristic of enemy units while they are within 6" of any friendly NIGHTHAUNT units.

A unit with a Bravery characteristic of 7, who comes within 6" of a Nighthaunt/LoG unit, now has a Bravery characteristic of 6.

A unit with a Bravery characteristic of 6, who comes within 6" of a Nighthaunt/LoG unit, now has a Bravery characteristic of 5.

 

A Bravery characteristic of 5 or lower, after modification, as well as a distance of 3", is required for Harrowing Shriek. Note that it is models within 3".

 

Legion of Grief has a Command Trait and a Spell Lore to assist with this:

Command Trait - Tragic Emanations: Subtract 2 from the Bravery Characteristic of the enemy units while they are within 12" of this general.

Spell Lore - Shroud of Terror: Cating value of 8. If successfully cast, pick 1 enemy unit within 12" of the caster and visible. Subtract D3 from the Bravery characteristic of that unit until your next hero phase.

There are other tricks, as well. Morghasts and Suffocating Gravetide, for instance.

 

I am no expert, though, so if there is an obscure reading of the rules that somehow eek out more Bravery loss for our opponents (especially without spells) please let me know.

[Keith]

2 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

 <---- "unless" and "6 or more"

Legion of Grief - Aura of Grief: Subtract 1 from the Bravery characteristic of enemy units while they are within 6" of any friendly Legion of Grief units.

Nighthaunt - Aura of Dread: Subtract 1 from the Bravery characteristic of enemy units while they are within 6" of any friendly NIGHTHAUNT units.

A unit with a Bravery characteristic of 7, who comes within 6" of a Nighthaunt/LoG unit, now has a Bravery characteristic of 6.

A unit with a Bravery characteristic of 6, who comes within 6" of a Nighthaunt/LoG unit, now has a Bravery characteristic of 5.

 

A Bravery characteristic of 5 or lower, after modification, as well as a distance of 3", is required for Harrowing Shriek. Note that it is models within 3".

 

 

Thanks , that sums it up for me , you need some other source of bravery debuff vs Bravery 7 units to get them down to 5 so the Dreadsythes become -1 to be hit.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Keith

[Keith]

A quick report featuring my Legion of Grief vs Deepkin.

Worth a look just to see the fantastic Deepkin army.

 

[Bayul]

I'd watch more of this. You could include the attacks and dice rolls though or highlights at least. Did you explain where you placed the all of your gravesites or did I miss that?

[Keith]

8 hours ago, Bayul said:

I'd watch more of this. You could include the attacks and dice rolls though or highlights at least. Did you explain where you placed the all of your gravesites or did I miss that?

Sorry it was a quick report at the local shop once a month tourney, so not much time for doing things properly.

Basically I had 3 gravesites in the middle where the fights took place and one nearer to the Deepkin objective , just in case he left it open for a sneak attack from a summoned unit.

[AidenNicol]

Hey GriefGang, I did a post on the NZ Masters 2019 event. I personally did well, but be forewarned the post isn't majority positive so if you're not into that give it a miss.

 

[Ferrus65]

AldenNicol great battle report, thank you for sharing. It’s always interesting see what happens on the table. I saw your army list in previous post, may I ask your opinion on single units? Which one worked good, and which not? Something you will change for the future in your list?

[AidenNicol]

27 minutes ago, Ferrus65 said:

AldenNicol great battle report, thank you for sharing. It’s always interesting see what happens on the table. I saw your army list in previous post, may I ask your opinion on single units? Which one worked good, and which not? Something you will change for the future in your list?

Sir you've motivated me to do an entire follow up post to my previous one going over what worked and what did not. I'll get that up in a few hours 

[AidenNicol]

Well, i said I'd do it and here it be

[Ferrus65]

6 hours ago, AidenNicol said:

Well, i said I'd do it and here it be

Good guy.. you did a very good job!

[Aaranis]

Yeah thanks for all the breakdowns ! I'm surprised about your opinion on the Harridans, you seemed to like them quite a lot earlier in the topic. I'm on the same opinion for the GoS, be it NH or LoG his spell just never works and when it does it heals 1 model back to life. 140 pts is a hefty cost, most of our heroes are expensive so that's difficult to chose him. 

[Aaranis]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/06/white-dwarf-preview-decembergw-homepage-post-3/?fbclid=IwAR3rugCMFFe0WM5i62OJK4ZJYX4sF-g-dJ2Q476HCGoF2tNa7aIlG8htBNo

We'll get three new Battalions for Nighthaunt ! They're talking about Legion of Grief in the article too, but there's no details yet telling us how these Battalions will work.

[EnixLHQ]

10 hours ago, Aaranis said:

Yeah thanks for all the breakdowns ! I'm surprised about your opinion on the Harridans, you seemed to like them quite a lot earlier in the topic. I'm on the same opinion for the GoS, be it NH or LoG his spell just never works and when it does it heals 1 model back to life. 140 pts is a hefty cost, most of our heroes are expensive so that's difficult to chose him. 

Since most armies in his meta have Bravery 7 or higher, I can see why he'd want to shelf the girls. It takes a CV 8 spell to lower a unit's bravery enough to matter for that.

In my local meta I think they're still super solid for that -1 to hit. I'm supposing that he's figuring an equal points worth of Chainrasps would hit more and wound more than the Dreadscythes overall, while costing the same CP to get them swinging.

He brought 20 and 15 Dreadscythes (35 wounds, 105 attacks, likely a fraction of that actually being used) = 520 points = 40 + 30 Chainrasps (70 wounds, 140 attacks, more likely to get a bunch actually attacking).

Slower, less likely to damage (3+ vs 2+ with a GoS Wound buff), but way more of them and way more attacking once they got to wherever they were going.

3 hours ago, Aaranis said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/06/white-dwarf-preview-decembergw-homepage-post-3/?fbclid=IwAR3rugCMFFe0WM5i62OJK4ZJYX4sF-g-dJ2Q476HCGoF2tNa7aIlG8htBNo

We'll get three new Battalions for Nighthaunt ! They're talking about Legion of Grief in the article too, but there's no details yet telling us how these Battalions will work.

I hope they are both Nighthaunt and Log battalions, or at least one is. I'd die for a second artifact...

[Ferrus65]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

I hope they are both Nighthaunt and Log battalions, or at least one is. I'd die for a second artifact...

This would be too good  to be true 😍

[AidenNicol]

2 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Since most armies in his meta have Bravery 7 or higher, I can see why he'd want to shelf the girls. It takes a CV 8 spell to lower a unit's bravery enough to matter for that.

In my local meta I think they're still super solid for that -1 to hit. I'm supposing that he's figuring an equal points worth of Chainrasps would hit more and wound more than the Dreadscythes overall, while costing the same CP to get them swinging.

He brought 20 and 15 Dreadscythes (35 wounds, 105 attacks, likely a fraction of that actually being used) = 520 points = 40 + 30 Chainrasps (70 wounds, 140 attacks, more likely to get a bunch actually attacking).

 

couldn't be more spot on there mate, it's never a good look when an expensive threat unit ends up being less effective than the wee Chainrasps. My meta really doesn't reward the slashing lasses so they'll ride the bench for a few games.

[Aaranis]

If your strategy is kamikaze charges and popping them back up, why not Bladegheists ? They're designed to perform this task and require less buffs than Harridans to be optimal. + retreat and charge in the alternate dimension where they survive a round of CC.