AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion

[Heijoshin]

8 minutes ago, Qrow said:

LoG opened up the floor to the rest of the nighthaunt roster to LoN, with the ability to resurrect entire units it become way less of a risk to run expensive but flimsy units.

Another key point as that all these lists include a lot of endless spells, part of the plan is to use the myrmourns to dispell your own endless spells then bring back the casualties of those dispells with the gravemarkers. So while a lot of lists will include at least one spellcaster for the myrmouns, it is more self dependent.

Ah that sounds awesome. But they can't dispell in the same turn the spell was cast? So basically its drop something non-harmful, then next turn dispell and attack? 

 

[Qrow]

Just now, Heijoshin said:

Ah that sounds awesome. But they can't dispell in the same turn the spell was cast? So basically its drop something non-harmful, then next turn dispell and attack? 

 

They both happen in the hero phase, so you cast the endless spell first then immediately dispell it, it all happens in one turn. It is very effective and makes a risky take unit like myrmourns extremely powerful.

[Heijoshin]

1 minute ago, Qrow said:

They both happen in the hero phase, so you cast the endless spell first then immediately dispell it, it all happens in one turn. It is very effective and makes a risky take unit like myrmourns extremely powerful.

and with the max model count per unit, you are basically all but guaranteed to do that. And then you can immediately rez lost models at the gravesites with the general im presuming. 

This is one of those tactics which I could just never come up with. I'm too "point and enemy and run" to think of things like this! 

[EMMachine]

47 minutes ago, Qrow said:

They both happen in the hero phase, so you cast the endless spell first then immediately dispell it, it all happens in one turn. It is very effective and makes a risky take unit like myrmourns extremely powerful.

You can't dispell it in the same turn directly after casting, because dispelling an Endless Spell happens at the start of the Herophase (while casting happens during the Hero phase). This is also mentioned in the Nighthaunt FAQ from July 2019

Quote

Q: I have a question regarding the Myrmourn Banshees ability
‘Spell-eaters’ and its interaction with endless spells, specifically
the part of the rule which reads: “Once in each of your hero
phases, if this unit is within 6" of an endless spell, this unit
can attempt to dispel the endless spell in the same manner as
a Wizard.” Can this ability be used at any time during the
hero phase?
A: No, it must be used at the start of the hero phase (as
Wizards can only attempt to dispel at the start of the
hero phase).

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by EMMachine

[AHexInScarletRed]

What's the rest of such a list looking like? Reikenor, I presume? 2 Necromancers for the Deathly Invocation, a Guardian of Souls to Buff the Myrmourns, some cheap Endless Spells (Reaper, Shackles, Vault) and what to do with the other 900 pts? 

[relic456]

36 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

What's the rest of such a list looking like? Reikenor, I presume? 2 Necromancers for the Deathly Invocation, a Guardian of Souls to Buff the Myrmourns, some cheap Endless Spells (Reaper, Shackles, Vault) and what to do with the other 900 pts? 

 

I believe @Heijoshin is referring to Ben Savva's lists from the Essex GT and the recent Rage of Sigmar event.  Both can be found here:
https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/benjamin-savva-legion-of-grief-rage-of-sigmar-2nd-place/
https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/ben-savva-legion-of-grief/
 

Edited July 17, 2019 by relic456

[Heijoshin]

47 minutes ago, relic456 said:

 

I believe @Heijoshin is referring to Ben Savva's lists from the Essex GT and the recent Rage of Sigmar event.  Both can be found here:
https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/benjamin-savva-legion-of-grief-rage-of-sigmar-2nd-place/
https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/ben-savva-legion-of-grief/
 

That's right! I've also seen another list which uses the 2 x 12 Banshees here: 
 

 (4th Pic I think).  

Edited July 17, 2019 by Heijoshin
Edited link

[Warbossironteef]

What do people think about Grave guard compared to Banshess? The new horde discount for Grave Guard seem to make them a solid option. They are slow but they seem like a good option. 

Do people have any insight? Is there any way for Legion of Grief to increase their roll to wound?

Edited July 17, 2019 by Warbossironteef

[AverageBoss]

Grimsghasts are still better than Grave Guard even with the new points on both units.

[RuneBrush]

19 hours ago, Heijoshin said:

and with the max model count per unit, you are basically all but guaranteed to do that. And then you can immediately rez lost models at the gravesites with the general im presuming. 

Gravesites work independently of any heroes, so you can dispel and then bring back D3 models (both abilities are at the start of the hero phase so you can pick the order they happen).   This actually makes the unit super effective as the whole unit gains +1 attack due to the dispel but should be pretty much back to full strength.

Should the unit be destroyed entirely then the general can bring them back from a gravesite with 1CP.  You could argue that the resurrected unit should have +1 attack as it's the same unit - however that's probably a little controversial (they could come back at any gravesite)

[Heijoshin]

9 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Gravesites work independently of any heroes, so you can dispel and then bring back D3 models (both abilities are at the start of the hero phase so you can pick the order they happen).   This actually makes the unit super effective as the whole unit gains +1 attack due to the dispel but should be pretty much back to full strength.

Should the unit be destroyed entirely then the general can bring them back from a gravesite with 1CP.  You could argue that the resurrected unit should have +1 attack as it's the same unit - however that's probably a little controversial (they could come back at any gravesite)

That's a good point with the whole unit being brought back but potentially retaining the +1. I can see both sides really. 

[kenshin620]

HOT TAKE with what is occurring in other factions (like the orruks)

Legions of Nagash 2nd edition would "eat" Nighthaunt. The original Nighthaunt allegiance still exists (ala Soulblight) but Legion of Grief will also be a full LoN allegiance and all wrapped in one book.

(and hopefully they fix grimghasts vs grave guard so that guard are worth using)

What do you think? I mean whether you like it or not, the Legion of Grief IS a Legion of Nagash with a Mortarch and everything. Plus hit 2 birds with one stone (update both NH and LoN)

 

Either that or somehow Soulblight claws it way out

Edited July 20, 2019 by kenshin620

[lare2]

8 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Legions of Nagash 2nd edition would "eat" Nighthaunt.

Something like this honestly wouldn't surprise me. 

The Nighthaunt book, what is it though? About a year old now? 

[Charlo]

Personally cant see it happening. That's like a step backwards for GW at this point.

Nighthaunt is such a massive and complete range (not to mention flagship!) that to have it swallowed up by LoN doesn't make sense.

My main bet will be that after the next death tome comes out (looks like massed skellies from the teaser) LoN may get another go around eventually with:

Tidying up, adding soul wars NH warscrolls in, adding legion of grief, adding some units from the new army in (depending on fluff), sorting out Battalions and allegiances, retiring metal/ resin models (except maybe Blood Knights as they're central).

[Batch]

Rightio, so been messing around with lists and even got to use one today, centering around a Bravery Bomb, got two lists, the first Ive given a try and the second which I may soon attempt as well as it kind of more fits the fluff. So

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (220)
- General
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament(340)
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Necromancer (130)
- Spell: Dread Withering
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- Artefact: Grave-sand Gem 
Spirit Torment (120)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
15 x Bladegheist Revenants (270)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)
Horrorghast (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
 

Rounded build, plenty of spells and healing for the spoops, potential of allegiance ability, shroud of terror and Horrorghast taking a max of -6 bravery, grimghast and Bladegheist to do plenty of damage with a Spirit Torment to accompany the Bladegheist for more potential.  The main problem I found with this list, and LoG in general is that it needs more CP, but we have access to battalions so it becomes difficult and sparing, this being said the KoS didnt get to use his command ability for extra attacks so I may consider removing him for more bodies.

Now fluffy list

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (220)
- General
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Tomb Banshee (80)
Tomb Banshee (80)
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Necromancer (130)
- Spell: Dread Withering
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Betrayer's Crown 
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (320)
Horrorghast (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 132
 

Now this list looks really appealing actually,  more bodies, Reikenor makes it easier to get the endless spell off but, the two +2 spell casts from Arkhan are missed, why do I take Shroud of Terror twice? I want to make sure somewhere on the field it will be cast, and both those heroes wont always be together.

Now the fun of the army, well direct all the scare toward where ever lady O is, she will be accompanied by her two Banshees and here we have a potentially deadly shooting phase, if we're lucky we got an average of -5 bravery with all our debuffing abilities and spells, now it really depends on the opponent's army but Lady O will almost always get to takes D3 damage to all those units within 10" the banshees pick off heroes if possible because the damage potential from those, lets take Sylvaneth for example, hopefully Ive screened enough so he wont murder me, but his bravery should be around 4 at this stage, the max potential of mortal wounds each for the banshees is 8 MWs, perfect world yes but this cripples him like something else.

Seems like a fun list that Ill give a go, but let me know what you guys think of em.

[Evil Bob]

7 hours ago, Charlo said:

Personally cant see it happening. That's like a step backwards for GW at this point.

Nighthaunt is such a massive and complete range (not to mention flagship!) that to have it swallowed up by LoN doesn't make sense.

Only an AOS-1.0-summon-points reckoning level event that destroys Nighthaunt like it did all death warscrolls could possibly merge the books.  There’s so much money in printing Battletombs regardless of army game-play integrity.

[Bayul]

Hi, I hope you don't mind beginner questions:

Warcry sparked some interest in AoS and Nighthaunt in particular purely for aesthetic reasons and I'd like to expland my warband to Legion of Grief. Summon flying spooky ghosts and stacking up bravery reduction sounds like a fun theme. 

How should I start building up to 1000 points? Is Ben Savva's list a good orientation? So focusing on myrmourn banshees, chainrasp horde and proper endless spells? I know that Forbidden Powers plus  FAQ is mandatory, but do I need both NH and LoN Battletomes or the GHB 2019 even?

[Sauriv]

55 minutes ago, Bayul said:

Hi, I hope you don't mind beginner questions:

Warcry sparked some interest in AoS and Nighthaunt in particular purely for aesthetic reasons and I'd like to expland my warband to Legion of Grief. Summon flying spooky ghosts and stacking up bravery reduction sounds like a fun theme. 

How should I start building up to 1000 points? Is Ben Savva's list a good orientation? So focusing on myrmourn banshees, chainrasp horde and proper endless spells? I know that Forbidden Powers plus  FAQ is mandatory, but do I need both NH and LoN Battletomes or the GHB 2019 even?

If you want to try LoG you would only need forbidden power. GHB19 if you want battleplans and general rules. 

List-wise the more "competitive" list is to spam as much cp as possible, so bravery bomb seems the weaker option. I don't like following the meta so im building a bravery bomb list. Anyway, myrmourn are great because the can dispel an endless spell (your own for example) and the damage they take can easily be healed from gravesites. Dreadblade as general is a good choice anyhow. 

I can attach my 2000p list of LoG bravery bomb. Not the most optimized  list but I'm using the models i already have.

LoG2000p.pdf

[Sauriv]

Oh ups, old list. I changed the list to include one more mage, like GoS, instead of the executioner (did some small changes to the other units to afford it) . I can then cast shroud of terror reliability with Reikenor and the horrorghast with the other mage. 

For trait & artifact I'm using Tragic emanations and brooch on the Dreadblade. (might use gryph-feather charm instead due to using him more offensively) 

All that gives me a max bravery reduction of minus 6-8. Hope to do some damage with all those screams. 

[punkycloud]

If I wanna make a LoG list with Arkhan do I need to add Lady O? 

[Sauriv]

37 minutes ago, punkycloud said:

If I wanna make a LoG list with Arkhan do I need to add Lady O? 

Yes, and she needs to be the general too. 

[Bayul]

On 7/25/2019 at 11:39 PM, Sauriv said:

Oh ups, old list. I changed the list to include one more mage, like GoS, instead of the executioner (did some small changes to the other units to afford it) . I can then cast shroud of terror reliability with Reikenor and the horrorghast with the other mage. 

For trait & artifact I'm using Tragic emanations and brooch on the Dreadblade. (might use gryph-feather charm instead due to using him more offensively) 

All that gives me a max bravery reduction of minus 6-8. Hope to do some damage with all those screams. 

@Sauriv Did you have the opportunity to test your list or are you still theorycrafting? What's your opinion on a Mortis Engine? 

[Sauriv]

8 hours ago, Bayul said:

@Sauriv Did you have the opportunity to test your list or are you still theorycrafting? What's your opinion on a Mortis Engine? 

I haven't tested it yet, I'm still waiting for my order to arrive.  But I'm really encouraged to try it out as soon as possible and i have some friends which has competitive lists and are good players so i can write here after some games on how it went. 

I have never played with mortis engine so i dont really know but the heal is only good for multi-wound models because it doesn't resurrect. It feels like the warscroll could use an update. +1 to casting seems good to get those important sells off and the model looks awesome. 

[Bayul]

So I tinkered with the warscroll builder and came up with this 1000 points list for my first AoS army.

Do I have too many leaders? Should I replace one for some Mymourn Banshees to dispel endless spells?

Allegiance: Legion of Grief

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Tragic Emanations
- Artefact: Grave-sand Gem
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Necromancer (130)
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Spears

Units
5 x Dreadscythe Harridans (80)
5 x Dreadscythe Harridans (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Horrorghast (60)
Suffocating Gravetide (20)

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 63

[Gorthor21]

Allegiance: Legion of Grief

Leaders
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (220)
- General
- Spell: Wail of Doom
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern(140)
- Artefact: Grave-sand Gem  
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Necromancer (130)
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Tomb Banshee (80)
Tomb Banshee (80)

Battleline
10 x Zombies (60)
10 x Zombies (60)
10 x Zombies (60)
10 x Zombies (60)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

Units
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)
1 x Corpse Cart (80)
5 x Dreadscythe Harridans (80)
10 x Grimghast Reapers (160)
5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)
5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)
5 x Dreadscythe Harridans (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Horrorghast (60)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
Suffocating Gravetide (20)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
 

I have been toying with this idea for an army list that uses bravery as a way to deal out the mortal wounds.  I have three tomb banshees I could use.  The idea is string the zombie units in a line with the casters sitting around the corpsecart casting the endless spells or moving forward and throwing out shroud of terror.  The small units are to pop out of the gravesites or moving forward to force battleshock tests.  Should I trim some down to try and get a second guardian of souls or change some units out for something different?