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AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion


Sigwarus

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2 minutes ago, Rod said:

Dont know, stacking -2 b seems powerful, but morghast are kinda overpriced, 

So dont know if pushing bravery debuff worth 220 points

They certainly are highly mobile.  More so than a small Black Knight tag unit.

That points value is what stops me using them most of the time.  In GHoN I’ve ran them in a unit of four.  Even with the extra die they are so swingy.  I run them as a surgical hammer strike, always mindful of how they are working as part of the combined forces.  Things have to be pretty forced before they run off solo.

Hypothetically in a LoG force they might be able to jump over the enemy lines to squeeze out that debuff for future Hero & Shooting phases.  The problem is they’d likely get a smack down in a sustained fight.  I would have trouble justifying the loss in other options for a tricky move that can easily fail.  They can’t be expected to output their value in damage.  They might force position changes among the enemy.  Maybe getting off the right support character assassination could derail the opposition.  Too many “ifs” for my blood.

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Hello everyone!
Had a quick game with new fireslayers
I brought
1 necro general with -2 bravery aura and -d3 bravery spell

1 necro with -1 save spell and 5+cp returning item

1 GoS

1 Banshee
1 Ghoul king on TG as merc

40 skelies with spears

40 rasps

5 dire wolves

30 Reapers

Horroghast

Geminids
 

Opponent brought lordes of the lodge with smith, father, priest and 30 mortalwounding hearthguards, 30 hearthguards with axes, another priest and 10 vulkites.

played focal point

Dwarfs spreaded along whole diagonal of the table with 3 heroes of the lodge behind their guards and other guards. They took the first turn and moved forward scoring 4 points. I opposed axes with all ghosts, overing reapers with rasps and put skelies and all other heroes behind them against pikes. Casted geminids and horrorghast. Run with skelies as close as possible not engaging in combat. With -2 bravery (opponent protected against horroghast with 4+ ignore spell banner) TG and banshee sniped runefather (mistake should have gone to Smiter). Wolves went outflanking. Could not get enough models to score middle objective, so 4-2.

Second round opponent went first charged. He protected all units against geminids with banner. All guards charged including axes because of run and charge prayer. Pikes killed all skelies in 2 activations. Axes left 16 rasps. Vulkites charged into flanking wolves, leaving 1 dog. Reapers grinded through axes, killing 10 and making 11 run with all bravery debuffs. Still got 4 points

My next turn I tried some positioning keeping necro general as far as i can to guards but having smiter -2 Bravery. Ressed some units. Casted -3 bravery spell (rolled 5 on d3) on smiter that wasnt blocked. Summoned 40 skelies and Flayers to take opponent's home objective. Banshee rolled double 1 on scream. And tg killed a duardin. Flayers did a good job killing 5 vulkites. Skelies made a 9 inch charge, covered tg as much as possible. Axes killed some reapers, skelies killed some pikes. Pikes spreaded attacks against skelies, tg and reapers killing 20 reapers total, and 30 skelies. On battleshock decided use kp on skelies so they protect all heroes. Reapers are gone. With all bravery debuffs vulkites also gone. 8-6

Third round opp goes first, geminids finally debuffed attack on pikes. slayers killed rest on skelies and rasps. But on my turn I killed last lodge hero with flayers and banshee (some bad rolls), tg retreated to the top of the build where 4"movement duardins couldn't get him. General retreated to backlines and brought reapers and skelies (branch value). Opponent concided, saying that he has no way to win now. I also won theoretical roll-off.

Thoughts: 1 invigorating aura per hero phase is not pleasant. On the other hand - we still lose so much models that we usually run on battleshock leaving so few models that it is more useful to get them completely destroyed and bring back. But bravery debuff shenanigans can catch unprepared, best part of banshee - she can target any unit in range even is combat where tg fails to snipe because his scream is missile. Lore is ok, items is trash and looking for replacement. Branch seems viable. I ill try Mortis Engine and more banshees next game instead of TG.

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3 minutes ago, deynon said:

Why only 1 invigorting aura per Hero phase? You can use one ofr each hero 

They made invigorating aura into allegiance ability instead of gravesite ability. It basically says pick 1 unit within 9" of any gravesite and ress d3 models 

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8 minutes ago, Havkai said:

They made invigorating aura into allegiance ability instead of gravesite ability. It basically says pick 1 unit within 9" of any gravesite and ress d3 models 

I  confused the"invigorating aura" with the deathly invocation 

anyway

it's a battle trait either in the LoN:B and in the Legion of Grief. Even the text  is the exact same when talking about "invigoratin aura" unquiet dead and deathless minions.

At least the difference between "this" and "a" about graveyards in the Invigorating aura doesn' change the result. The problem would have been it would have been written "any".

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5 minutes ago, deynon said:

I  confused the"invigorating aura" with the deathly invocation 

anyway

it's a battle trait either in the LoN:B and in the Legion of Grief. Even the text  is the exact same when talking about "invigoratin aura" unquiet dead and deathless minions.

At least the difference between "this" and "a" about graveyards in the Invigorating aura doesn' change the result. The problem would have been it would have been written "any".

Aura stopped being an ability of gravesite. In LoG Aura is an allegiance ability as a whole. Different placement in allegiance abilities section

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14 minutes ago, Havkai said:

Aura stopped being an ability of gravesite. In LoG Aura is an allegiance ability as a whole. Different placement in allegiance abilities section

But it doesn't change anything at all . It's exactly the same, thre are still 4 graveyards and you can use it from each of them.

If you find problems in this you have to find problems also in LoN:B. Cause don't mind if they are under the same voice or out, they are still battle traits either position you consider. And they work the same way too.

It's still an ability asosciated to a graveyard. Even before they where not a whole anyway cause the where different aspects, but the text or so on it's still the same.

 

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22 minutes ago, deynon said:

But it doesn't change anything at all . It's exactly the same, thre are still 4 graveyards and you can use it from each of them.

If you find problems in this you have to find problems also in LoN:B. Cause don't mind if they are under the same voice or out, they are still battle traits either position you consider. And they work the same way too.

It's still an ability asosciated to a graveyard. Even before they where not a whole anyway cause the where different aspects, but the text or so on it's still the same.

 

In the LoN it says EACH gravesite has invigorating aura. And that Each gravesite may use invigorating aura.

In LoG it says that the Allegiance has Invigorating Aura. And that Invigorating Aura lets you select A (singular) gravesite each turn.

Those two changes together make it RAW 1 heal per turn from gravesites.

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27 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

In the LoN it says EACH gravesite has invigorating aura. And that Each gravesite may use invigorating aura.

In LoG it says that the Allegiance has Invigorating Aura. And that Invigorating Aura lets you select A (singular) gravesite each turn.

Those two changes together make it RAW 1 heal per turn from gravesites.

nope.

if you see the text.

"At the start  of your hero phase, pick a friendly SUMMONABLE unit wthin 9" of this gravesite [...]"

"At the start of your hero phase, pick a friendly SUMMONABLE unit within 9" of a gravesite [...]"

Nowhere it0s written "each" as you suggest.

and the difference "this" and "a" is not relevant, it doesn't changee the grammar. It would have been like you say only if it would have been written "any"

and even your saying that they are urrelated to the graveyard it's wrong, cause they say you to see "unquite dead" about it.

It's the same.

If you declare only a gravesite works, such it's also for LoN:B and viceversa.

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Hi @Mordread thanks for replying!

I personally don't yet have the Forbidden Power book, so I'm not too knowledgeable on the specific artefacts, but I do have the Nighthaunt battletome.  I like the models in the range, but wasn't ever quite sure what to take in an army.  Your list caught my eye as it contained the things I liked, and seemed like a good solid force for a game (like you, I don't play competitively, just casually.)  Let us know how you get on with your first game - lots of people seem to float ideas on here, and it's also interesting to hear how the lists do when they're put into practice!

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4 hours ago, deynon said:

nope.

if you see the text.

"At the start  of your hero phase, pick a friendly SUMMONABLE unit wthin 9" of this gravesite [...]"

"At the start of your hero phase, pick a friendly SUMMONABLE unit within 9" of a gravesite [...]"

Nowhere it0s written "each" as you suggest.

and the difference "this" and "a" is not relevant, it doesn't changee the grammar. It would have been like you say only if it would have been written "any"

and even your saying that they are urrelated to the graveyard it's wrong, cause they say you to see "unquite dead" about it.

It's the same.

If you declare only a gravesite works, such it's also for LoN:B and viceversa.

You are ignoring an ENTIRE line of text. You can't just look at a single piece of a rule out of context, you have to read all of it.

The LoN allegiances have this line of text "Gravesites have the following abilities:". That little line is absolutely critical, as it applies one instance of the listed abilities per gravesite on the table. So if you have 4 gravesites, you have 4 separate instances of IA, 1 applied to each.

LoG is missing that line of text, which means the ability is applied to the allegiance. Since you only have one allegiance, you only have 1 (single) instance of that ability. And like EVERY OTHER ability in the game, it can only be used once per turn per instance (unless stated directly otherwise) in the ways its specifically says. And it says that you may once per turn select A gravesite.

For LoG gravesites to function like the LoN gravesites, that line of text will need to be erratad back in, or they wound need to change A to EACH, or they would need to add in an extra line allowing you to use the ability once per gravesite.

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@deynon going to have to agree with @AverageBoss, Invigorating Aura within Legion of Grief is completely different to the same named ability within the Legions of Nagash book (I have put this question in my FAQ e-mail to GW).  IA within LoG is a one shot affair and not an ability added to a gravesite.

I'm assuming they did this because of the confusion if Allies could benefit from IA when LoN came out, however it's fundamentally changed how the ability works for this allegiance.

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7 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

You are ignoring an ENTIRE line of text. You can't just look at a single piece of a rule out of context, you have to read all of it.

The LoN allegiances have this line of text "Gravesites have the following abilities:". That little line is absolutely critical, as it applies one instance of the listed abilities per gravesite on the table. So if you have 4 gravesites, you have 4 separate instances of IA, 1 applied to each.

LoG is missing that line of text, which means the ability is applied to the allegiance. Since you only have one allegiance, you only have 1 (single) instance of that ability. And like EVERY OTHER ability in the game, it can only be used once per turn per instance (unless stated directly otherwise) in the ways its specifically says. And it says that you may once per turn select A gravesite.

For LoG gravesites to function like the LoN gravesites, that line of text will need to be erratad back in, or they wound need to change A to EACH, or they would need to add in an extra line allowing you to use the ability once per gravesite.

I'm not ignoring it. the text for both the invigorating aura it's exactly the sam except the word I listed.  And you are fogotting about the gravesites that they make you see the gravesites.

Not mind if together or not. That is an ability of a gravesite.

"if you do so, pick a gravesite (see "the unquiet dead") [...]"

nowhere it says you can only chose 1 gravesite, but simply "a". 

IF you say that only one can do so it's also about the LoN:B cause it specify "this" so you can only choose a single specific one based on your idea.

You don't have a single instance of ability , it's only once based on your idea, 4 graveyards, 4 applying. 

There is not "each" in LoN gravesites, so you can't say there to be the difference. I wrote the sentences related to and there is not "each" you are referring to.

Otherways it should have wittten: choose a single graveyard to apply this rule.

You can change the text, but you have to to to LoN:B too, otherays it's the same.

1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

@deynon going to have to agree with @AverageBoss, Invigorating Aura within Legion of Grief is completely different to the same named ability within the Legions of Nagash book (I have put this question in my FAQ e-mail to GW).  IA within LoG is a one shot affair and not an ability added to a gravesite.

I'm assuming they did this because of the confusion if Allies could benefit from IA when LoN came out, however it's fundamentally changed how the ability works for this allegiance.

the e-mail GW gaq answering mean nothing at all till it is published as a FAQ whatever it is.

it can't be confyusing to allies.In the allies it's clearly written that they can't use the allegiance abilities. No confusion avalaible.

It's not changed.it's the same. "This" and "a" are mutual. The problem would have been "any", that would have brought a single use.

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3 hours ago, deynon said:

I'm not ignoring it. the text for both the invigorating aura it's exactly the sam except the word I listed.  And you are fogotting about the gravesites that they make you see the gravesites.

Not mind if together or not. That is an ability of a gravesite.

"if you do so, pick a gravesite (see "the unquiet dead") [...]"

nowhere it says you can only chose 1 gravesite, but simply "a". 

IF you say that only one can do so it's also about the LoN:B cause it specify "this" so you can only choose a single specific one based on your idea.

You don't have a single instance of ability , it's only once based on your idea, 4 graveyards, 4 applying. 

There is not "each" in LoN gravesites, so you can't say there to be the difference. I wrote the sentences related to and there is not "each" you are referring to.

Otherways it should have wittten: choose a single graveyard to apply this rule.

You can change the text, but you have to to to LoN:B too, otherays it's the same.

the e-mail GW gaq answering mean nothing at all till it is published as a FAQ whatever it is.

it can't be confyusing to allies.In the allies it's clearly written that they can't use the allegiance abilities. No confusion avalaible.

It's not changed.it's the same. "This" and "a" are mutual. The problem would have been "any", that would have brought a single use.

Yes you are ignoring an entire line of text, and you just did so again. Read Legions of Nagash again. Look at the line of text directly above Invigorating Aura. That line of text is what is most important, and that line is missing. Nowhere in LoG does it say that it is a gravesite ability, only an allegiance ability (LoN specifically says it is an ability belonging to gravesites). Arguing that you can use an ability as many times as you feel like just because is a very dangerous proposition. Your personal interpretation would result in Sylvaneth players being able to place every Wyldwood they own at the start of the game, because the placement ability must belong to the Wyldwoods themselves, along with an endless list of other broken jank.

This is seriously starting to remind me of when one user argued against the entire forum on how healing worked when LoN dropped.

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2 hours ago, Mordread said:

@@alterdeqip I try to Hide the Lady behind the Black Coach, because it is a big model, so the Lady can't be seen from the biggest range Thread.I'll try.

You mean that the Black Coach can block line of sight to the Lady? o_O

I dont think models can block LoS to each other if they dont have any special rules for this ( like some goblins has )

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6 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Yes you are ignoring an entire line of text, and you just did so again. Read Legions of Nagash again. Look at the line of text directly above Invigorating Aura. That line of text is what is most important, and that line is missing. Nowhere in LoG does it say that it is a gravesite ability, only an allegiance ability (LoN specifically says it is an ability belonging to gravesites). Arguing that you can use an ability as many times as you feel like just because is a very dangerous proposition. Your personal interpretation would result in Sylvaneth players being able to place every Wyldwood they own at the start of the game, because the placement ability must belong to the Wyldwoods themselves, along with an endless list of other broken jank.

This is seriously starting to remind me of when one user argued against the entire forum on how healing worked when LoN dropped.

I brought all the text referring the lines, what it misses is the part on the wounds recovering. No text avoided.

If you say a miss somethng you should bring. 

I proved that there is the same txt, only a word difference and doesn't influence anything. And even there is the link to the graveyards themselves again.

The text it's the same as in LoN:B so if you insist to apply limitations to LoG you have to apply also to LoN:B cause it's exacttly the same.

Also in LoG they say they are abilities referred to the graveyards, otherways you can't even use them at ll cause you need the graveyards, and they listed even the referring to the graveyards , I wrote the sentence about. 

You continue to say that I miss part of the text, but the only one missing it it's you it seems.

I wrote the rules and showed them iy's you to continue to argue about an idea without saying the rules about.

The Sylvaneth have had liomits to their woods positioning. And anyway if they really want to do it, they are free to do it, they can't thenafter thinking of even miss a rule without being tortured so. It's not different from when someone said you could bring 4 Nagash and none could stop you with first AoS version, a totally irreal happening. And again it doesn't matter such thing with our discussion.

I don't care what it reminds you. The rules say different from what you claim, and I showed it. You only bragged about and no rule to support  your idea.

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On 5/29/2019 at 1:31 AM, Qrow said:

Chainghasts: Currently they are 40 points a model and half their use is dependent on being close enough to another specific hero, not worth it 99% of the time when the hero is flat out better for only slightly less. But if you drop them too much they would become OP very quickly, hard to make them usable without making them abusable.

Small point but Chainghasts don't need to be near a Torment for Chainrasps in a condemned battalion or Bladegheists. Still not enough to make me run them as they dont hand out the deathless save or command abilities.

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8 hours ago, Spears said:

Small point but Chainghasts don't need to be near a Torment for Chainrasps in a condemned battalion or Bladegheists. Still not enough to make me run them as they dont hand out the deathless save or command abilities.

wow that is actually a pretty big deal that I want to explore, the ability to give a unit of 30 rasps or 20 gheists full rerolls without having to be within 15 of the torment is amazing, plus i wanna try out the shooting from the ghasts

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2 hours ago, ColsBols said:

plus i wanna try out the shooting from the ghasts

After the WFB split between wet/dry undead I had gotten very used to missing out on the shooting phase.  Running these guys has been interesting.  Getting an extra wound here or there on an important target generally isn’t dramatic but certainly helpful.  Running two of them near the Briar Queen once killed a Chaos Lord walking his dog in two turns.  That was chuckle worthy.

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Trying this out tomorrow night, I’m ignoring the bravery bomb and instead going for power rezes & stacking attacks. This list is mostly an artefact of the models I actually own. I realise the coach isn’t the best, but I love it so damn much I don’t care! Dreadblades only job is to teleport to graves to summon back elietes. 2x 5+ chances to get a cp for each one spent. KoS buffs attacks, Arkhan brings the ability to cast van hels and dread withering. (-1 save is great)! Thoughts? C&C welcome 

Leaders-

Dreadblade (100) general, vassal of the craven king

Arkhan (320) Dread withering 

KoSoES (140) Aetherquartz brooch 

Necro (110) Overwhelming dread

Troops-

chainrasps x10 (80)

chainrasps x10 (80)

chainrasps x10 (80)

grimghasts x30 (360)

bladeghiests x10 (180)

myrmourns x12 (210)

Behemoths

Black coach (280)

total = 1940 , 1extra command point 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Yamarahj34 said:

Can you take Arkhan? I thought it worked like the other Legions...if you bring a mortarch it has to be the specific one for the legion (Olynder) and they have to be your general.

He can take arkhan but only If he takes lady o as general 

In addition the necromancer can't take overwhelming dread only the three LoG spells could be choosed

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