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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

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Don’t suppose anyone here has both a Herdstone and a Fane and can tell me if they’re even remotely similar base size?

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2 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Don’t suppose anyone here has both a Herdstone and a Fane and can tell me if they’re even remotely similar base size?

I have the fane, but no herdstone - though I've seen one. Iirc, the herdstone is a much more round base and (I think) has a smaller footprint

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I think I’m going to have to somehow mash a Herdstone onto the base of a Fane so it’s base-size legal terrain for Slaanesh but also avoids that derpy KoS face. Thinking about converting an Ogroid Thaumaturge into a Doombull as well, always wanted to paint an OT but the rules have never been good enough so this is next best. 

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Yeah the best HoS builds are definitely either a sea of Marauders or hyper msu Depraved drove.

The question is if the Infernal Enrapturess is good enough to take or not. At 120 I think there is no reason not to take them, but 140 starts to add up quickly and it's a big hit to your drops.

But there is a non-negotiable piece here; Be'lakor. Being able to shut down a power piece while they are in a vulnerable position is a stupendous power. 

 

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Even at 120, I m not sure I ll pay for an Enrapturess in my list, they are so fragile with 5 wounds and 5+ save. I like to chain summon one to summon another unit of 10 deamonettes 24+ inches from my initial hero however

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1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:

Yeah the best HoS builds are definitely either a sea of Marauders or hyper msu Depraved drove.

The question is if the Infernal Enrapturess is good enough to take or not. At 120 I think there is no reason not to take them, but 140 starts to add up quickly and it's a big hit to your drops.

But there is a non-negotiable piece here; Be'lakor. Being able to shut down a power piece while they are in a vulnerable position is a stupendous power. 

 

Yeah, I’m having a serious look at Be’lakor at the moment, that ability is bananas good. 

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Greetings foul Hedonites, I come to you with a proposition. 
 

the elgi have gone too far this time, not only have they fashioned some Gods-awful hammers, but they have stolen Hashut’s imagery and Runecraft for themselves!!! Join us Dawi in the fight against these so called “Realm Lords” and half of all prisoners will be sent your way.

 

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3 hours ago, TheR00zle said:

Greetings foul Hedonites, I come to you with a proposition. 
 

the elgi have gone too far this time, not only have they fashioned some Gods-awful hammers, but they have stolen Hashut’s imagery and Runecraft for themselves!!! Join us Dawi in the fight against these so called “Realm Lords” and half of all prisoners will be sent your way.

 

As an elf player, I can only say that I would throw the gauntlet down... but considering the height difference I feel that I would have an unfair advantage when it gives you a concussion.

 

anyways, how brutal is a lurid Haze army with a ****** ton of marauders? Is it as much of a no brained as it sounds?

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20 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

As an elf player, I can only say that I would throw the gauntlet down... but considering the height difference I feel that I would have an unfair advantage when it gives you a concussion.

 

anyways, how brutal is a lurid Haze army with a ****** ton of marauders? Is it as much of a no brained as it sounds?

Yeah in a list with 80+ marauders hitting people's lines from off the board is very strong and a 9" charge is essentially your minimum charge range.

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Just now, whispersofblood said:

Yeah in a list with 80+ marauders hitting people's lines from off the board is very strong and a 9" charge is essentially your minimum charge range.

Yea, that and the fact that they all have -1 rend, and every 6 explodes into two extra hits... sounds a bit broke, but also very, very tempting.

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Hey hey

Next week I will have my first game against the Realmlords. My friend will definitly play Teclis and a lot of Wardens. Does anyone any experience against them?

I play a lot of mortals (3x10 Warriors, 5 Knights) and Deamon Heroes (2x Deamon Prince, 1x Keeper, 1x Epitome and probably Be‘Lakor)

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10 hours ago, Drazhoath said:

Hey hey

Next week I will have my first game against the Realmlords. My friend will definitly play Teclis and a lot of Wardens. Does anyone any experience against them?

I play a lot of mortals (3x10 Warriors, 5 Knights) and Deamon Heroes (2x Deamon Prince, 1x Keeper, 1x Epitome and probably Be‘Lakor)

No exp yet against LRL, but Season of War on YouTube has been doing a lot of LRL batreps.  Check them out if you want to see them in action, they have a great format too.

on topic of competitive Slaanesh, I think we are going to see the return of depraved drove with a couple support pieces (Enrapturess, be’lakor and epitome) or marauder spam.  I’m currently running Pleasurebound and would have more than 60 marauders, but love using Archaon too much.

120 marauders, Chaos lord, Chaos Sorc lord, epitome, enrapturess, sybarites, Be’lakor ally might be something to look into 

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15 hours ago, El Antiguo Guardián said:

I´m a bit disappointed about slaanesh in competitive games today. I love daemons... But I´m not sure about the list.

Full characters sybarites with 3x5 hellstriders?

You've missed the summer of 2019. 

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2 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

You've missed the summer of 2019. 

I was using slaanesh last year for tournaments, but the army was broken, you know.

But today I don´t know how to adapt it to the new tier list. I love the idea of a main unit (30 girls or bestigors), 2 keepers or 3, 2 chariots... But today I´m not sure about it. I´m thinking about the "standard" list as the characters one, but I think it can do nothing against tzzench, karadron, lumineth, seraphon, etc...

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2 hours ago, El Antiguo Guardián said:

I was using slaanesh last year for tournaments, but the army was broken, you know.

But today I don´t know how to adapt it to the new tier list. I love the idea of a main unit (30 girls or bestigors), 2 keepers or 3, 2 chariots... But today I´m not sure about it. I´m thinking about the "standard" list as the characters one, but I think it can do nothing against tzzench, karadron, lumineth, seraphon, etc...

Pretty much. It s still good against melee armies despite all the nerfs we got but it will be an uphill battle against shooting heavy armies.

Lurid Haze from the Wrath of the everchosen extension to alpha Marauders into key enemy units seem to be the most effective Slaanesh  list  in the current meta

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1 hour ago, azdimy said:

Pretty much. It s still good against melee armies despite all the nerfs we got but it will be an uphill battle against shooting heavy armies.

Lurid Haze from the Wrath of the everchosen extension to alpha Marauders into key enemy units seem to be the most effective Slaanesh  list  in the current meta

Thank you mate!

Using the mortal sorcerer in order to teleport the marauders I think.

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Lurid haze let s you redeploy D3 units and place them in Ambush so it cannot be dispelled unlike the slave to darkness teleport spell which you do not have access in a Hedonites allegiance btw

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To be honest,.. I don't think after uh.. cb42 talked about heavy use of large Beast units in Slaanesh no one has really put in HoS units with cheap character support.  I don't recall seeing anyone taking lots of Daemonettes as core and it's one of the most common things warned against trying.  I don't think I've ever seen anyone take, talk about or use Fiends.  

I'm as salty as the next guy (Sylvaneth, BoC player here) and I may be wrong but I've only seen armchair comments warning against Daemonettes.  Way back in 8th to play Beastmen it was generally horde blocks of Gors and Bestigors and the Beasts or Shadow spell to boost str cause you had LD 10 hatred with a rr.  Fairly reliable.  One guy showed up and took solo Doombulls with Centigor core and tore things up.  The Rambull was born and people were shocked and a LOT of old stalwarts refused to budge.  Even with bat reps and examples.   It amazed me to constantly read "I dont' see how this could work" and that response showed up daily and aggressively.  To further the Ramhorn, the Minobus was born out of that and it was pretty effective. 

I've seen the comparison of Daemonettes to Bestigors and sure fine.  One is clearly better.  But I haven't seen anyone post a list with 60-90 girls with some attempts on making it work.  Or 6+ Fiends.  

I'm not trying to fan any flames or start an argument, I would just like to see examples of people trying something different and try looking at situation Slaanesh is in.  Good lord, Sylvaneth players have been hammering away at this HARD since that latest book dropped.  There was a lot of really good chatter about approaching the sylvaneth army, mindset and missions differently.  And I would like to support and encourage people trying an alternative method of seeing what could work in a positive manner.  I'm hoping people look at things differently and maybe don't go for the BoC or Hero spam but look at the missions and try builds outside the norm.  I would like to hope a good build is around the corner and will become more popular once Covid restrictions ease a little more.

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The problem with daemonettes are just that there is clear better choices no matter where you look. Marauders are 10 points less and 10 wounds with a better melee profile. The only thing thats debatable is mobility. Daemonettes run and charge, and marauders have a charge range of at least 8", or 9" if you play godseekers. Daemonettes needed go back down in points to around 100/270. 

Fiends are counter productive to our main strategy of heroes because they don't generate depravity. Fiends are great anvil, but to be that anvil, they cost as much as a keeper. They only hammer well vs 4+ wound models, and for nearly everything else, they fall flat.

Hopefully in slaanesh book 2, whenever that is, makes our units decent, unless we are meant to just be a hero hammer army with no ranged defense. 

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So it really depends on what you mean by HoS. IF you are ready to take anything available to you, then yes HoS can ball.

I actually have been playing Depraved Drove since launch because the KoS was very efficient as a hammer it could do enough dmg and I could have two flying KoS to apply that dmg where I needed to. Further the Depravity meant I could recycle hammers while my cheap beasts screened, score, and generally won me the game because the KoS was dangerous enough that it was hard to take your eyes off.

- KoS is no longer efficient (actually its quite bad, but has benefited from the ethereal amulet going away), I've replaced it with marauders and traded recycling for more dmg

- I've started fielding msu bestigor to finish off units 

- and traded my hedonite units for solo Doombulls

- allied in Be'lakor because well, he's amazing but even then I'm considering just taking more chaff or one of the BoC behemoths for scoring reasons

Part of the problem is that there aren't that many Hedonite units but if I was to narrow it down to the goodish ones it would be:

The Masque

Exalted Chariot (but its huge base is mildly concerning)

Maybe Hellstriders

The rest of the units are either redundant, or the battalions are so expensive the trade off against playing BoC or S2D units are too large

Basically they killed the book and rather than tone it down, they just made it not do any of the things they designed it to do. And, the game state has changed, there is just generally less depravity out there as people react to more shooting small heroes are being reigned in. Shooting has increased so match ups against KO or Seraphon can leave you with zero heroes very quickly.

You could probably play HoS in your local gaming group even quite traditionally assuming there isn't too much shooting, even something like 40 Sentinels actually isn't "that bad" a match up as you'll lose 1 KoS to all 40, but if you have a second a KoS is a good unit to roll something like LRL. 

The problem with Daemonettes is that most of their hitting power comes from the 2nd pile-in that you don't get if you don't have a KoS, and you are definetly going to lose a KoS if the other army has spent 400-500 points into shooting. 

Further the game is eveolving into more dispersed spread of points the only really horde units I can think of that it would be worth sending 20-30 nettes into is something like 40 marauders, or 40 Skinks, Plague Monks. I'm not sure they are blendy enough to trade with Storm Vermin or 20 Wardens. if you can get the drop on them. Think about the mirror, you'll be left to charge like 10 ungors or 1 doombull or something like that even if you kill it you've spent 1 of your probably 3 combat battle rounds killing 60-100 points. 

Now there would be a few interesting things that might come from this new boxset.

If the hero has Excess of Slaughter or a variant that works on Mortal Slaanesh, run and charge or +1 attack or something it would need to be something really impactful.

But given the limited amount of new stuff in the box I'm not hoping for anything meta shifting in the box, maybe a battalion but I doubt it would be game changing either. 

This is all my opinion, and keep in mind that I've never played straight Hedonites of Slaanesh, mostly my thoughts all come from having to sort out what to do with the KoS and the chain of events that followed.

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All the mortal slaanesh have the slaves to darkness keyword with the exception of the hellstriders and can get buffed that way. I am unsure on what that new slaanesh mortal hero could bring as a buff piece for mortals that we don t already have access to from the s2d battletome

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Can I use the Varanguard as heroes (knights of the empty throne) in a Hedonite List?

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27 minutes ago, Drazhoath said:

Can I use the Varanguard as heroes (knights of the empty throne) in a Hedonite List?

No, they can only be heroes in a list with the sub-allegiance Knight of the Empty Thrones, which is from Slaves to Darkness. They can be slaaneshi though.

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Has anyone made good experiences with a Lord on Karkadrak in combination with knights? I cant make a decision between this one or Shalaxi😁

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