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HERO

AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

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14 minutes ago, HERO said:

So... in October, we're going to get 4 more Battalions.  Who's excited?  Any bets on maybe getting a Fiend battalion? :D

I'm very excited. Though I'm a bit worried that they'll just be a copy of our normal battalions attached to this new Host - I hope not, but the worry is there.

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Fiends still suffer from the core problem of depravity generation. If you took depravity out or adjusted how it was generated Fiends would find a place. Right now the problem with adding a basic 200 points of fiends (which only gets you 3) is that "eh I'd rather spend it on a keeper" or another leader. Heck if fiends generated depravity that would at least give them a foothold. 

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I'd honestly like to see a change so that depravity points can get produced by any of our units but also an increase of dp cost to summon units to counter-balance it.

Edited by Panzer

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Went 5-0 again this weekend with my team to win a Circle City Clash. Beat 2 Slaanesh mirror matches (they copied my list, and I matched myself up against them).

same list as before:

Invaders

keeper, thermal rider

shalaxi

ssyleske, general

masque, general 

epitome, general, glory hog, rod of misrule

herald on exalted chariot, 12” +1 hit artifact

3x5 hellstriders 

cavalcade+sybarites battalions 

Edited by Rhellion
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11 hours ago, CB42 said:

Keeper, Epitome, 2 x 30 Bestigors, 1 x Great Bray Shaman, 1 x 40 Ungors, 2 x 10 Ungors, Depraved Drove, Cogs, allied Grashraks Despoilers. 4 drops list.

Unless I'm missing something, that's 5 drops (Grashrak's despoilers is 2 drops)

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1 hour ago, decker_cky said:

Unless I'm missing something, that's 5 drops (Grashrak's despoilers is 2 drops)

Grashrak has the Great Bray Shaman keyword and it is unclear to me whether he is part of the depraved drove battalion or not.

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He is not, because the battalion doesn't have the bonded keyword great bray shaman as an option. 

 

Phantasmagoria of fate (tzeentch) is the only beastmen battalions grashrak fits in.

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He is a "Hero" so he is with that battalion, but b.c the 5 other guys are not that means they are still a separate drop, as far as the BoC community can tell.

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11 hours ago, Rhellion said:

Went 5-0 again this weekend with my team to win a Circle City Clash. Beat 2 Slaanesh mirror matches (they copied my list, and I matched myself up against them).

same list as before:

Invaders

keeper, thermal rider

shalaxi

ssyleske, general

masque, general 

epitome, general, glory hog, rod of misrule

herald on exalted chariot, 12” +1 hit artifact

3x5 hellstriders 

cavalcade+sybarites battalions 

Wait you mean people copying and pasting a list from the internet doesn’t work as well as the person who pioneers and practices a list?

Ruh roh this spells trouble for my competitive strategy. Although I did shift from stealing your list to stealing @HobbyKiller’s list. So as long as I don’t run into him or Tinsdale I’m good right?

In any case congrats on the win. Was that a singles event or an actual team event?

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So... Pretenders seem to suffer atm in the competitive community at least.  I don't see a lot of lists or talk about taking big ol' Keepers and their pretty artifacts.  Seems like the best Slaanesh builds right now are the CP-loving Invaders or speedy Godseekers :)

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On 10/4/2019 at 6:42 PM, CB42 said:

They're a mobile screen. You take them not because they can shoot but because they get their 6" move turn 1. This allows you to screen your forces while deploying effectively on the line.

As an example: Let's say you're fighting against FEC and FEC will have choice. 24" apart. If you put your keeper with thermalrider cloak on the line within 3" of your screen, the terrorgheist can charge your screen, kill your screen, then pile into your keeper and kill your keeper. So you need to place your keeper 6" back from your screen, not 3". But that means you're out of charge range turn 1, so FEC will just give you first turn and life will suck for you. With Ungor Raiders, you place your keeper basically on the line and then move your screen forward. Now your keeper is screened with a 6" gap, which means that the TG can't charge your screen and pile into the keeper, but your keeper could cross the 24" gap and threaten a turn 1 charge. (There's also an element of putting models in the way so that the TG can't just jump over your screen and fight your keeper anyways, but the logic holds up - you can do things like move 6 ungor raiders up and use the other 4 to fill some of the space in between to prevent the TG from shooting the gap).

Also: On focal points and a few other maps, you can get your raiders within 6" of an objective with their 6" move. This forces the other player to dedicate resources to killing them turn one or to getting 11 bodies onto the objective, which dictates part of their turn 1 strat.

Also: Against some enemies, it's crucial for denying deepstrike (think eels coming in from ambush - if you can put raiders 6" foward on one flank, and deny the ambush with hellstriders behind you, you free up a lot more room for you to position your keepers near that flank without getting alpha'd by eels).

Also: they can screen out gnawholes that are placed near your forces, so a skaven player turn 1 can't skitterleap, WLV, then gnawhole back to safety. Makes it a one way trip for any enterprising grey seers.

 

Ungor Raiders are the best unit I haven't managed to fit into my list. I may bring them back if I switch from 30 Slaaneshtigors / 20 Seekers to 60 Slaaneshtigors.

Is there any way to get the slaanesh keyword on the bestman units without using the batallions from the beasts of chaosbattletome?

 

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8 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Wait you mean people copying and pasting a list from the internet doesn’t work as well as the person who pioneers and practices a list?

Ruh roh this spells trouble for my competitive strategy. Although I did shift from stealing your list to stealing @HobbyKiller’s list. So as long as I don’t run into him or Tinsdale I’m good right?

In any case congrats on the win. Was that a singles event or an actual team event?

It was a 4 player team event. Pairings were done for teams each round.

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13 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

He is a "Hero" so he is with that battalion, but b.c the 5 other guys are not that means they are still a separate drop, as far as the BoC community can tell.

He does not fit in the battalion as the battalion refers to the Great Brayshaman warscroll not keyword. 

Also him and his unit are taken together as per the downloadable Matchplay points. It's unclear however if they are therefore one drop but that is how these units are typically being played.

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5 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

He does not fit in the battalion as the battalion refers to the Great Brayshaman warscroll not keyword. 

Also him and his unit are taken together as per the downloadable Matchplay points. It's unclear however if they are therefore one drop but that is how these units are typically being played.

They're two  separate units that happen to share a points cost. Why would they be a single drop?

 

8 hours ago, Ragnar72 said:

Is there any way to get the slaanesh keyword on the bestman units without using the batallions from the beasts of chaosbattletome?

No.

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8 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

He does not fit in the battalion as the battalion refers to the Great Brayshaman warscroll not keyword. 

Also him and his unit are taken together as per the downloadable Matchplay points. It's unclear however if they are therefore one drop but that is how these units are typically being played.

I was referring to the one that does work and how it works, he only fits in ones that says "hero" i didnt mean to type "THAT" i was thinking in my head "that one battalion that works" and typed it that way instead of saying "Phastamgora" or w/e you spell it. Its the only one that works.

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What do you folks think Pretenders need right now to be as competitive as Invaders and Godseekers?  I'm hungry eyeing the new battalions once they come out.. hopefully one will be good for Pretenders.

Edited by HERO

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3 hours ago, HERO said:

What do you folks think Pretenders need right now to be as competitive as Invaders and Godseekers?  I'm hungry eyeing the new battalions once they come out.. hopefully one will be good for Pretenders.

I think, from what I've seen, Pretenders is designed with the idea of a big god model (usually a KoS with multiple command traits) and a lot of smaller models. As it has no useful form of the syberites battalion, and one of our best things is summoning from heroes, in order to have a good number of drops and summoning there's really only one choice - the Depraved Drove. This is pretty decent, but doesn't give locus of diversion. In addition, Pretenders doesn't have a great innate depravity generation or command point potential, and a super keeper tends not to last very long on the battlefield. 

In order to have a quick fix, they'd want to have a hero battalion, preferably one that can generate large amounts of command points. It wouldn't change everything, but it would be a big boon to have a 2-3 drop pretenders list which could contain multiple Hedonite heroes. 

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I like Pretenders at lower points levels where you can only really afford to bring one or two threat pieces plus their support, the tooled up super Keeper will do you good under those circumstances, but in larger games they other two hosts are going to be more valuable most of the time, and I think that's probably fine!

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Looking at it, it feels like it could be okay, but it's a shame chaos knights are a bit rubbish. Even with the +1 to hit from the chaos lord on mount and the likelyhood they'll get a first turn charge, they're only getting 10 attacks at 3/3/-1/2, and 10 attacks at 3/4/-/1. Considering they'll probably get 2 extra hits on each set of attacks (being generous), they do an average of 9 damage on a charge against a 4+ save. For how much they cost (and the Chaos Lord on mount too), they're still not great but maybe they could act as a buffer to soften the enemy screens up.

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8 hours ago, Enoby said:

I think, from what I've seen, Pretenders is designed with the idea of a big god model (usually a KoS with multiple command traits) and a lot of smaller models. As it has no useful form of the syberites battalion, and one of our best things is summoning from heroes, in order to have a good number of drops and summoning there's really only one choice - the Depraved Drove. This is pretty decent, but doesn't give locus of diversion. In addition, Pretenders doesn't have a great innate depravity generation or command point potential, and a super keeper tends not to last very long on the battlefield. 

In order to have a quick fix, they'd want to have a hero battalion, preferably one that can generate large amounts of command points. It wouldn't change everything, but it would be a big boon to have a 2-3 drop pretenders list which could contain multiple Hedonite heroes. 

Yeah, I think that's the thing though.  We already have a hero battalion that generates CPs, and Pretenders cannot have that.  I don't think its going to happen.  Specter of Domination is nice, but having a ****** ton of drops is not.

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2 hours ago, Enoby said:

For those who are interested :)

Screenshot_20191011-163122_Chrome.jpg

Those Gorebeasts  in the battalion are almost always going to be making their 6 attacks of brutal fists with 2 damage each

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45 minutes ago, Cambot1231 said:

Those Gorebeasts  in the battalion are almost always going to be making their 6 attacks of brutal fists with 2 damage each

Yep. 2 MSU Marauder horsemen, one sorcerer on manticore, and 4 gorebeast chariots. And if I wanted to get really rowdy, I’d consider 20 Chaos knights with glaives, 5 marauder horsemen, 3 gorebeast Chariots, a Chaos lord on daemonic Mount, and a lord of Chaos on foot. Then with my other 700 points (minus the battalion cost) I’d take a Keeper and an Epitome. 4 drops, Keeper and chaos knights and gorebeasts attempt to alpha strike turn 1.

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