AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Sobakaa]

3 minutes ago, Enoby said:

It sounds like it's something you could deal with a second time fighting it with really heavy screening or just charging him first (if possible). That said, just so I know what exactly happening, what is needed to get those things on Archaon? I get the +1 attack (banner man), +1 save (priest), and reroll wounds (whip), but where is the other stuff from? 

Second activation comes from Reapers of Vengeance command ability. 6" pile in is given by one of the Bloodthirsters. Bloodstoker gives +3 to run and charge rolls and full re-roll to wound, not just fails. Re-rolls of 1's to hit from Mark of the Slayer or some other ability like that. Run and charge was just my imagination it turns out.

And yes, next time i will definitely do a different deployment. Not sure about going first since he still has a proper screen of some cheap guys and bloodhounds. There might also have been some mistakes on his part like based on rule as written he cannot do a 6" pile in during 2nd activation since he must pick a unit within 3" of him.

[Luke1705]

Sounds like he just got really lucky to be honest. I don’t think there is a way to buff the to wound roll from Khorne so unless he natively rolls sixes he really doesn’t do much damage. Also he can’t go before your keepers so just making him take saves is real.

 

But tbh I would just ignore him and kill the rest of the army

[HobbyKiller]

Reapers of vengeance khorne with either multi-thirsters or Archaon is not that hard to beat.

You need to take advantage of your longer threat range, ignore Archaon or feed him one keeper at a time or even better get him to fight Shalaxi with her spell on as unless he slayers of kings her she will tank him.

Also screen what you can - most importantly both of those lists have very squishy other elements that you can easily kill and win on objectives.

For the record so you don’t think this is theoretical hyperbole I just came second at facehammer and played and beat the following 

skaven with 9 stormfiends

reapers with 4 thirsters

skaven with 9 stormfiends

reapers with archaon

120 plague monks

 

[Magnus The Blue]

28 minutes ago, HobbyKiller said:

Reapers of vengeance khorne with either multi-thirsters or Archaon is not that hard to beat.

You need to take advantage of your longer threat range, ignore Archaon or feed him one keeper at a time or even better get him to fight Shalaxi with her spell on as unless he slayers of kings her she will tank him.

Also screen what you can - most importantly both of those lists have very squishy other elements that you can easily kill and win on objectives.

For the record so you don’t think this is theoretical hyperbole I just came second at facehammer and played and beat the following 

skaven with 9 stormfiends

reapers with 4 thirsters

skaven with 9 stormfiends

reapers with archaon

120 plague monks

 

Yup, sounds like he lucked out with slayer of kings.

Congratulations on the results HobbyKiller, what list did you run?

[Enoby]

By the way, anyone else tried to use Exalted Seeker Chariots? They look great on paper but I just can't seem to get them to work - I think it's the 4+ to wound on their attacks, and I get pretty unlucky with the 2+ mortal wounds. They're also pretty slow, so no proper chance of a first turn charge. Anyone got any tips to use them?

[HobbyKiller]

Godseekers with triple keeper (one was Shalaxi), triple hellstriders, sybarites, cavalcade, mirror, wheels, palisade 

nothing special - pretty much the same list I came second at Blackout with 

[HobbyKiller]

Enoby - don’t but them for your list - they are however a viable summoning unit 

[Enoby]

5 minutes ago, HobbyKiller said:

Godseekers with triple keeper (one was Shalaxi), triple hellstriders, sybarites, cavalcade, mirror, wheels, palisade 

nothing special - pretty much the same list I came second at Blackout with 

Well done on your placing Is there anything this list struggles against? 

[HobbyKiller]

Most of what I played are hard games -  as the list is so fragile - just have to know your list inside out and practice practice practice 

IDK are our hardest matchup right now but everything is beatable if you outthink your opponent 

[Magnus The Blue]

Nice, if you get a chance to do a write up, I would love to here how you felt with those lists.

[Luke1705]

10 hours ago, HobbyKiller said:

Godseekers with triple keeper (one was Shalaxi), triple hellstriders, sybarites, cavalcade, mirror, wheels, palisade 

nothing special - pretty much the same list I came second at Blackout with 

Interesting that you play god seekers with the hellstriders that don’t really want to charge stuff since they can pile from 6. You don’t find that the enhanced CP generation from Invaders is necessary?

[HobbyKiller]

4 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Interesting that you play god seekers with the hellstriders that don’t really want to charge stuff since they can pile from 6. You don’t find that the enhanced CP generation from Invaders is necessary?

To be honest 99% of the time I forget about rolling for it - don’t think I rolled for it once at Blackout or Facehammer

[Carnith]

15 hours ago, Enoby said:

By the way, anyone else tried to use Exalted Seeker Chariots? They look great on paper but I just can't seem to get them to work - I think it's the 4+ to wound on their attacks, and I get pretty unlucky with the 2+ mortal wounds. They're also pretty slow, so no proper chance of a first turn charge. Anyone got any tips to use them?

I don't buy normal chariots, only herald versions. The herald has no many attacks, it can general a lot of depravity. While it is slower, thermal rider cloak, if you so choose, will speed it back up, and it can get Look out Sir! I always bring the hero version in my lists. The only non heroes I take nowadays if daemonettes and a unit of hellstriders.

 

[Luke1705]

Another GT win for James Tinsdale. Interesting list choice with the ungors

[Sobakaa]

What i don't get (probably because i'm new) is why people take those 130 points in spells over more sturdy heroes. I've seen it multiple times now.

[Luke1705]

2 hours ago, Sobakaa said:

What i don't get (probably because i'm new) is why people take those 130 points in spells over more sturdy heroes. I've seen it multiple times now.

Slaanesh doesn’t really do sturdy. For sybarites it’s really about quantity more so than quality. Personally my iteration of this list would include the masque and drop one of the spells and an exalted champ to make that inclusion, but I also don’t own the slaanesh specific spells.

The palisade is great for hiding your heroes/backfield objective capping unit or for a frontline debuff if they have no ranged output you care about. The wheels consistently do a good amount of mortal wounds and the mirror can do a lot of mortals if they move and charge away from it, so you can shape where your opponent is willing to go. It also does a number on heroes of course.

But if you’re dead set on dropping the spells and including more or better heroes that’s not awful in any way. As long as you’re playing with realm spells you’ll probably still be able to make good use of your casts.

[SwampHeart]

13 hours ago, Sobakaa said:

What i don't get (probably because i'm new) is why people take those 130 points in spells over more sturdy heroes. I've seen it multiple times now.

The 2 Slaanesh Endless spells are really important to helping us deal with support characters (Hags, Castellants, FS Characters, etc.). One of the major things Slaanesh doesn't have is the ability to reach out and threaten well screened characters and both Endless Spells do an excellent job of rectifying that. They have reasonable threat ranges (initially 24" for the mirror and 18" for the wheels) and the mirror has the added bonus of having no impact on your own models. They're just all round effective additions to the list that help deal with a problem area for HoS. This is of course all just in my personal experience with the spells. 

[HobbyKiller]

James used my list (and most of my models) this is the list I can second at Facehammer with 

[HobbyKiller]

Those spells are critical as they give you extra tools in your toolbox - the list requires a lot of finesse but means you can punish any mistake made by your opponent 

[Sobakaa]

I was just thinking about a way to kill those fyreslayers priests. My initial thought was 2 flying keepers but i will give spells a try next time i go against them.

[HERO]

I'm playing something similar as Godseekers w/ fatties leading them is how I like to play.

However, I'm not seeing the value of Shalaxi over a regular Keeper.  @HobbyKiller, can you please explain the reasoning and maybe provide some specific matchups where Shalaxi excel compared to a regular KoS?

[CB42]

1 hour ago, HERO said:

However, I'm not seeing the value of Shalaxi over a regular Keeper.

1) List wouldn't fit a regular Keeper. You'd need to drop an Exalted Champ or endless spell or ungor raiders or something to make room, which would make the list worse.

2) Shalaxi is REAL good at killing heroes and behemoths - which is good in a meta heavy with heroes and behemoths (the Slaanesh mirror matchup, Bloodthirster spam, GUOs, verminlords, terrorgheists, Archaon, etc).

3) Since you'll be moving Shalaxi wholly within 12" of a regular keeper anyways, Shalaxi doesn't suffer from losing the command ability because you'll just use the other keeper to make Shalaxi fight twice.

4) Shalaxi can get built in rerolls for fighting certain enemies (and so doesn't need to sacrifice to the Fane) and doesn't need / can't take an artifact or command trait, which compares well with a naked Keeper, which would be yet another hero who wants to get rerolls from the Fane.

[HERO]

Thanks, curious on the math then..

Is Shalaxi that much better at killing other heroes/behemoths?  I'd love to see some math behind this, especially since a tri-KoS list has 3 fight twice essentially.

I know that the regular KoS is better at killing troops, so I guess when I *can* take a Keeper, would that extra Keeper be better than Shalaxi?

Edited October 1, 2019 by HERO

[Enoby]

3 hours ago, HERO said:

Thanks, curious on the math then..

Is Shalaxi that much better at killing other heroes/behemoths?  I'd love to see some math behind this, especially since a tri-KoS list has 3 fight twice essentially.

I know that the regular KoS is better at killing troops, so I guess when I *can* take a Keeper, would that extra Keeper be better than Shalaxi?

I suppose, with a KoS close by, 2 KoS and Shalaxi will also be fighting three extra times. Assuming the KoS and Shalaxi are both fighting heroes (and Shalaxi aims all attacks at one hero), and both are rerolling from fane/spell.

Shalaxi has very variable damage, but with a double pile in against a 4+ save hero, its most likely damage is 25. 

 A naked keeper with rerolls against a 4+ save does about 18. 

This isn't accounting for mortal wounds or extra hits. 

 

[Luke1705]

Remember that if Shalaxi’s power goes off (on a 4) then she not only gets full re-rolls to hit, making her much more reliable, but she also gets to re-roll her saves (not just failed saves) when heroes hit her. So she is actually crazy durable with a re-rollable 3+ with a 6+ FNP vs heroes. Even against rend 2 that’s more than half of the damage saved. Rend 0 you’re failing like 10% of the wounds inflicted and rend 1 about 20%