AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[KasperBN]

Hi all, 

Just sold my Sylvaneth and slowly getting into Hedonites of Slaanesh which look amazing!

What is a good general rule of thumb, when getting into the Hedonites, what should I be looking at buying when aiming for a solid 2k list?

 

Cheers!

[Enoby]

1 minute ago, KasperBN said:

Hi all, 

Just sold my Sylvaneth and slowly getting into Hedonites of Slaanesh which look amazing!

What is a good general rule of thumb, when getting into the Hedonites, what should I be looking at buying when aiming for a solid 2k list?

 

Cheers!

You can't go wrong with a Keeper of Secrets (or three!), but as an army, we are pretty versatile. While there are optimal ways to play HoS, our allegiance abilities are good enough to allow us any build

 

I would suggest looking at a Keeper of Secrets, a Contorted Epitome, Wrath and Rapture, the Start Collecting, and maybe Syll'eske (best in Invaders). Mostly depends if you would like hero heavy or something more varied.  

[Floody]

Characters are very important for summoning and depravity, due to this you are at a bit of a disadvantage with out 5/6. As are command points. plenty of gear for generation in the book. You can have a crazy hero phase with all the wizards too. The endless spells are good and The Epitome is a serious spell caster. Combined with an Enrapturess they hurt enemy wizards.

Invaders, Godseekers, Pretenders is generally the goodness order of hosts. 

Daemonettes come in 30s or 10s, you can happily get away with 3x10 or even 3x5 hellstriders as your core.

Speaking of which, clawspears all the way.

Seekers have a place but fiends are a bit strange due to not generating depravity and are a bit pricey, handy for summoning though.

Chariots are typically for characters but the big uns are ok and the standard one with a herald is a steal for 12 depravity.

Make sure you keep a support character hanging around the fane as the refund stacks up.

 

[Luke1705]

More wounds per point spent so better depravity generation. Averages are good and all but what I’m saying is that the bladebringer will more often be close to the average output because it rolls more dice whereas the keeper’s low amount of attacks means it will sometimes be spectacular and sometimes do very little.

To explain what I mean by that, would you rather have 1 rend 1 attack that does 20 damage, or 20 rend 1 attacks that each do 1 damage?  

[Magnus The Blue]

Yeah, I must say the more I use my Exaulted Chariot Bladebringer, the more I want to use 2. The damage output is great, especially if you manage to charge multiple units, know one likes 4d3 mortal wounds before you even start attacking. 

Just a shame you  don't get depravity from the mortal wounds. 

On an unrelated note, has anyone tried out the new warcry furies yet in their Slaanesh list? Sure they increase drop count, but 12" flighing move with retreat instead of fighting feels strong in a army that can had out always strikes last.  First though is a screen for a Keeper, if anything scary charges just locus it and retreat over it's head with the Furies, who can now have fun in the enemies back lines.

[Xyxel]

I use Furies in my list and so far they do nicely as cheap and usefull chaff unit.
Great Bravery and fast movement for screening or scoring objectives.
Less wounds thant beastment but faster and easier to add to army.
 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Xyxel

[Overread]

I can see furies being very popular in general as a chaff/harassment unit. GW will be onto a good seller once they release them in their own boxed set. 

[Sobakaa]

I don't seem to find an option to take them as battleline. If i'm required to take another 300 worth of stuff i'll just use it to screen.

[Overread]

Furies are certainly not battleline and I wouldn't expect them to become so even in a Slaves to Darkness list (whenver the Battletome for Slaves arrives)

[Kasper]

On 8/16/2019 at 5:16 PM, Luke1705 said:

More wounds per point spent so better depravity generation. Averages are good and all but what I’m saying is that the bladebringer will more often be close to the average output because it rolls more dice whereas the keeper’s low amount of attacks means it will sometimes be spectacular and sometimes do very little.

To explain what I mean by that, would you rather have 1 rend 1 attack that does 20 damage, or 20 rend 1 attacks that each do 1 damage?  

The Keeper has the CA to fight twice and Locus on a 2+ is also very valuable.

[Kasper]

On 8/16/2019 at 4:39 PM, KasperBN said:

Hi all, 

Just sold my Sylvaneth and slowly getting into Hedonites of Slaanesh which look amazing!

What is a good general rule of thumb, when getting into the Hedonites, what should I be looking at buying when aiming for a solid 2k list?

 

Cheers!

It really depends on what you aim for. You want to be super competitive? The current lists either go for Ungors + Bestigors from Beasts of Chaos, or 3 Keeper of Secrets with MSU Daemonettes. In more casual games almost anything works as long as you have a little more focus on heroes.

[Popisdead]

11 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Yeah, I must say the more I use my Exaulted Chariot Bladebringer, the more I want to use 2. The damage output is great, especially if you manage to charge multiple units, know one likes 4d3 mortal wounds before you even start attacking. 

Just a shame you  don't get depravity from the mortal wounds. 

On an unrelated note, has anyone tried out the new warcry furies yet in their Slaanesh list? Sure they increase drop count, but 12" flighing move with retreat instead of fighting feels strong in a army that can had out always strikes last.  First though is a screen for a Keeper, if anything scary charges just locus it and retreat over it's head with the Furies, who can now have fun in the enemies back lines.

Me too.  I have one exalted and two Hellflayers built with Juan Diaz models and I regret making the Hellflayers (decision long ago).  2 Bladebringer Exalted would be a lot of fun.

[Luke1705]

I think something I’m noticing with a lot of high placing lists is that because so many units in the book are good, it’s  best to bring different units and summon in redundancy.

Case in point - the keeper of secrets and her command ability are superb.  But the contorted epitome is great. The exalted chariot is excellent. But by bringing too many of a single unit, you lose out on other things.

Then again some dude did place well with 4 keepers (I think it was 3 and shalaxi) is maybe people just don’t have enough Keepers painted yet 😂

Personally for me I think the sweet spot might be 2 keepers and shalaxi, but then I have to make sacrifices and can’t be a two drop or if I am a two drop then I can’t bring an epitome and an exalted chariot.

TLDR I keep coming back to @Rhellion‘s list, although I will definitely proxy a silly 4 keeper list and try out iterations of 3 keeper (2 plus shalaxi) lists as well. @Rhellion I’d be interested to hear why you went with less keepers and other heros instead.

[Luke1705]

14 hours ago, Kasper said:

It really depends on what you aim for. You want to be super competitive? The current lists either go for Ungors + Bestigors from Beasts of Chaos, or 3 Keeper of Secrets with MSU Daemonettes. In more casual games almost anything works as long as you have a little more focus on heroes.

I’ve actually not seen that 3 keeper list do as well as lists similar to @Rhellion‘s list with 2 keepers (1 + shalaxi) along with the masque, epitome, and bladebringer. Have I just missed out on results with 3 keepers and min daemonettes taking the podium at big events?

[Rhellion]

8 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

TLDR I keep coming back to @Rhellion‘s list, although I will definitely proxy a silly 4 keeper list and try out iterations of 3 keeper (2 plus shalaxi) lists as well. @Rhellion I’d be interested to hear why you went with less keepers and other heros instead.

Guaranteed command point with 6 characters and Sybarites. You can’t fit in 6 with all those keeers.

Exalted Chariot Herald is better at clearing out hordes of low armor. And is often overlooked in favor of the keeper.

ssyl’esske has a better command ability than a second, third or even fourth keeper’s. Redundancy is not necessary if positioned well. But Ssyl is amazing in an Invader list.

Epitome is also great and hard to fit with all keepers. Both magic protections and assurance. 

 

[whispersofblood]

8 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

I’ve actually not seen that 3 keeper list do as well as lists similar to @Rhellion‘s list with 2 keepers (1 + shalaxi) along with the masque, epitome, and bladebringer. Have I just missed out on results with 3 keepers and min daemonettes taking the podium at big events?

Podium finishes are a bad measure of a lists quality. There are only a handful of 1st place finishes in each meta phase, its a little deterministic to say this is the best list because its the best list. And, who is to say the basis of a list that wins, remains powerful for how long? That's before you even factor in matching up your personal playstyle with an specific faction build out. 

Personally once my toolbox is big enough, I focus on making sure my army does what its supposed to do, and that means getting specific redundancies in. My current list is 3 KoS, two and Shalaxi w/ whip and Slothful Stupor or Song of secrets because I've had issues killing Magmadroths and such beasts. The redundancy here is single model killer, I've found that a KoS without Artefacts doesn't do this job sufficiently to rely upon in Invaders. But with the glut of CPs can clear a 30/40 mob short of plague bearers in no time at all. 

I've found the magic defence on say an epitome wanting as the serious magic armies are rocking multiple casts with bonuses, or heaven forbid you come up against Fate Dice. And the armies that aren't into the magic game, 6 unbinds and the enrapturess successfully dumpsters. So its paying points to not do significantly better in affect than what I can do anyway. The RR casting would be more enticing if I had spells to cast, so if I took Purple Sun for example, or if it was casting GD spells. I don't need Purple Sun because a KoS kills more models from a single unit than a Exalted Chariot, and can use Excess of Violence on itself, meaning I have more flexibility on the board with how I move my damage dealers around. Which suits my playstyle as I like to play in a very asymmetrical fashion, manipulating my opponents army around the board and smashing it apart in pieces. Even when I lose I tend to give up very few points and lose on a point or two from objectives. Its been interesting adapting the army to my needs. Hopefully I'll finish painting it and get it out to some bigger events starting in September. 

[Tasman]

On 8/19/2019 at 3:06 AM, Magnus The Blue said:

Yeah, I must say the more I use my Exaulted Chariot Bladebringer, the more I want to use 2. The damage output is great, especially if you manage to charge multiple units, know one likes 4d3 mortal wounds before you even start attacking. 

Just a shame you  don't get depravity from the mortal wounds. 

On an unrelated note, has anyone tried out the new warcry furies yet in their Slaanesh list? Sure they increase drop count, but 12" flighing move with retreat instead of fighting feels strong in a army that can had out always strikes last.  First though is a screen for a Keeper, if anything scary charges just locus it and retreat over it's head with the Furies, who can now have fun in the enemies back lines.

Where does it say that you get no depravity from mortal wounds? That was laid to rest with the release of the new book, I thought. MWs do generate DP.

[Magnus The Blue]

Just now, Tasman said:

Where does it say that you get no depravity from mortal wounds? That was laid to rest with the release of the new book, I thought. MWs do generate DP.

Only if they are generated from a spell or attack, the mortal wounds caused by the chariots are neither, so don't produce depravity.

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Where does it say that you get no depravity from mortal wounds? That was laid to rest with the release of the new book, I thought. MWs do generate DP.

Mortal wounds from attacks and spells do, but not ones from the chariot blades

[Tasman]

19 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Mortal wounds from attacks and spells do, but not ones from the chariot blades

I think you are mistaken.... The FAQ says that wounds generated by a heroes mount cause depravity. Thus the chariot, [amount] causes DP

[Enoby]

Just now, Tasman said:

I think you are mistaken.... The FAQ says that wounds generated by a heroes mount cause depravity. Thus the chariot, [amount] causes DP

Ah, I meant that the chariot itself doesn't have attacks - the wounds come from an ability, which don't generate DP. If the chariot's MW came from an attack, then they would generate DP.

[whispersofblood]

2 minutes ago, Tasman said:

I think you are mistaken.... The FAQ says that wounds generated by a heroes mount cause depravity. Thus the chariot, [amount] causes DP

The Book says Attacks and Spells, anything not an attack or a spell would not generate depravity. The FAQ doesn't say anything that contradicts that rule, a mounts attacks do generate DP. Secondly, Excess of Blades and Pungent Soulscent are not a rule of the mount they are Abilities of the Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot warscroll. You are confusing fluff and rules, and then confusing rules and fluff. The only thing on the profile mechanically considered the "mount" are the Daemonettes and the Steeds of Slaanesh, which the FAQ says generate depravity.

[Tasman]

10 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

The Book says Attacks and Spells, anything not an attack or a spell would not generate depravity. The FAQ doesn't say anything that contradicts that rule, a mounts attacks do generate DP. Secondly, Excess of Blades and Pungent Soulscent are not a rule of the mount they are Abilities of the Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot warscroll. You are confusing fluff and rules, and then confusing rules and fluff. The only thing on the profile mechanically considered the "mount" are the Daemonettes and the Steeds of Slaanesh, which the FAQ says generate depravity.

I'm hip. I was actually only replying to the statement that MWs don't generate DP. Guess I read it wrong. My bad.

[Luke1705]

1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:

Podium finishes are a bad measure of a lists quality.

I can agree that sometimes people get good matchups, ate their Wheaties that morning, or are otherwise just a wizard (looking at you Sean Nayden - my 40k people know what I mean).

That being said, seeing a list do well at a large event *does* usually mean that it is both powerful and relatively well rounded against the current meta. Will that change? Sure. But I’m more liable to take playtested and battle-proven advice over a list that is just playtested.

In any event, I do feel like much of this thread is splitting hairs. When a four keeper list can finish 5-0 at Blackout (100 person GT) clearly that list (and likely 3 keeper iterations) works just fine. I’ve personally seen Depraved Drove lists win and podium at GTs. And of course Rhellion’s invaders list and similar twists on it have had some good success as well.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it comes down to play style preference

[MeSmashDaNoobs]

hello!

I did this list and would like some input on this one.

bestigors have re rolling 1's to hit and 6's are 2 more hits. re rolling wounds with bestigor (Beastlord) and immune to battleshock (Keeper of Secrets)

endless spells helps me get more mortal wounds on spells/faster units.

1 unit on deamonettes for KoS CA.

ungors for battalion requirement/backfield objective holders.

every blob has run + charge + cogs + shaman 3" movement

2 of my heroes have Locus of Diversion (2+ and re rollable 4+)

Did i miss anything or is this a great idea? Comment belove!

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Pretenders Host
Leaders
Beastlord of Slaanesh (90)
Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot (220)
- Artefact: Breathtaker 
- Lore of Slaanesh: Phantasmagoria
Great Bray Shaman of Slaanesh (100)
Keeper of Secrets (360)
- General
- Sinistrous Hand
- Trait: Inspirer 
- Artefact: Sliverslash 
- Host Option: Strength of Godhood (Pretenders Host Second Command Trait)
- Spell: Soulslice Shards

Battleline
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
30 x Daemonettes (300)

Units
20 x Bestigors (240)
20 x Bestigors (240)

Battalions
Depraved Drove (150)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Ravening Direflock (30)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134
 

Edited August 20, 2019 by MeSmashDaNoobs