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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion


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12 hours ago, SevenXes said:

I find it hard to recognize synergies within the codex. Beeing a Flesh-Eater means having a couple of noble Lords who support your Knights and Peasents with powerful buffs & auras. The Hedonites however seem to lack these synergies. Granted we have Glutos and his Buffs + Syll'Eske but apart from these two there isn't much going on. Or am I missing something?

Theres oviously the advantage that the Hedonites aren't as dependant on their leaders as my noble Knights but still...

Welcome :)

One of the most common complaints with Slaanesh is that the book lacks synergy. This isn't to say that it doesn't have its benefits - playing Slaves to Darkness recently it has reminded me that strong buffless warscrolls have advantages, but it does make the army weird to build for.

You've got to look at everything in the concept of roles, deciding what each unit will do in advance and have them perform that role. One advantage of little to no synergy is that list building is very free - there's no case of "I need to reserve 300 points for my buff pieces". On the other hand it can be a bit dry.

That said, the Lord of Pain does have a decent command ability when it's put on Glutos or even Painbringers.

12 hours ago, SevenXes said:

2. I'm having trouble finding a host (?). Neither Godseekers nor Invaders we're convincing, right now I believe that the Pretenders have the best traits. Is that so or am I overlooking something? I know theres also the "Lurid Haze Host" but since I don't own the book I can't really judge it.

Out of the hosts, on their own, no particular one is amazing. Godseekers is probably the best at base, just due to the easy summoning charge range. I personally prefer Invaders, who have the Skin Taker command trait which can be a lot of fun on a Keeper of Secrets with the amulet of Destiny. The Rod of Misrule is also a lot of fun.

Personally I don't reckon much to Pretenders. They're not terrible but the command traits aren't good enough compared to Invaders and Godseekers for it to be the main bonus, and it's quite rare that you'll have a unit of 10 or more to benefit from the other ability.

Lurid Haze is probably the most easy and generally best variant host. The rules are as follows:

- Billowing Mists: Remove D3 of your set up units after deployment. Teleport them out of 9" of the enemy and 6" of the table edge at the end of your moment phase. 

- Feverish Anticipation (forced command trait): Reroll run rolls within 12" of this general.

- Forced artifact: Add one to the bearer's wound characteristic. 

- Command ability: all heroes gain access to a command ability that gives a unit within 12" +1 to save rolls. This is like All Out Defence but better as it can be used any phase and I believe at any time during save rolls. In addition it can be used in the same phase as All Out Defence.

So the best/most simple way to use this is teleport Sigvald and either run or teleport a Keeper of Secrets. Have him charge, strike first, and then pile in again immediately. This is probably the closest thing we have to synergy :P

13 hours ago, SevenXes said:

- At lower point games I would probably take "The Masque" + "Shardspeaker" as leaders. I love Sigvald but he's just too expensive, albeit beeing a murder-machine. Could see this as an option?

The Masque is really good, and the Shardspeaker can be, but it's really dependant on what other units you have in 1000 points. Neither pack a punch so you'll need something to pick up the slack.

Sigvald isn't actually a bad choice in 1k points, but I would recommend him with Lurid Haze at this level just to ensure he sees combat ASAP - otherwise you can have a pricey model doing nothing. 

13 hours ago, SevenXes said:

- Blissbarb Archers seem to be a must in every list and judging by their warscroll I think they're probably the best unit in our Codex. 

Is there any reason you think this? :) They're not bad by any stretch, but don't do tonnes of damage for their price and die to a stiff breeze. They are very nice at screen clearing and a big unit of them can hurt a lot, but they don't benefit from our allegiance ability or any command abilities except the generic ones. They are very good at depravity generation too.

Their biggest issue will always been how quickly they die and the fact we often don't have the spare points for screens.

13 hours ago, SevenXes said:

- Whats the advantage of having a Lord of Pain? His Command-Ability is okay and if he's a general Twinsouls/Painbringers become Battleline, but to be honest neither the Twinsouls nor the Painbringers seem to be too great for their cost. And which units would profit the most from his ability?

I like Painbringers and Twinsouls, the latter doing tonnes of damage against the right target and the former being a decent anvil that tanks very well, so I tend to use the Lord of Pain to make them battleline inside an Invaders army where I can have a better model be the real general. I'll rarely use his command ability on anything but himself or Glutos, or a unit of Painbringers in a clutch situation. It is actually very good on Slickblade Seekers, but good luck catching them with him.

As a side note, think of Painbringers as Liberators/Bloodwarriors/Chaos Warriors+; they are a bit too pricey, but they do around double the damage of the other units unbuffed. 

Think of Twinsouls as horde clearers. You never want a unit of more than 10 imo as they are super expensive and can just fail VS a goof save. 

13 hours ago, SevenXes said:

- What's your opinion on Fiends? They seem to be pretty decent in every aspect. Can withstand damage and deal some. I wouldn't include them in my list but summon them later on. 

I do like summoning them if depravity is tight. Their issue is that their best attack is super swingy, and using them in a unit of 6 makes them suffer from coherency rules. That said, summoned in a unit of 3, they can't be ignored by a monster. If you do have 12+ depravity though, you're better summoning 30 daemonettes or a KoS.

13 hours ago, SevenXes said:

4. Summoning pool:

Right now I'm planning on getting 20 more Demonettes (then I'll have 30), a KoS and three Fiends. Is that too much? Unforunately I do not know how many DP are generally generated in a match at 1000 (2000) points. 

This seems about right :) I think you'll usually generate about enough for two Keepers in a game depending on your list, so having 3p daemonettes, a KoS, and three fiends on standby sounds about right.  

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13 hours ago, SevenXes said:

So heres what I think about the army after reading the codex + FAQ:

hello, and welcome to a World of Pain ;)

so to 1: There are some Synergies more: First the Synergie KoS and Sigvald: Jes Sigvald is a "Murder" and with the Luzirad he come from 1 Side, than he must stand the 9" Charge with +3 and a ReRoll with CP he is very Save in and fight first and with a KoS Command ability he can fight twice before our Oppoinent but jes ist very hard in a Army of 1.000 Points. Annother good Option is the CE (Contorted Epitome) with ReRoll 1se Spell against W3 Units in 24". Good Option for Melee AND Missel.

2: If u take Sigvald or a big Shooting Unit of Archer go for Luzerad. If not Goodseeker be at the Moment the Best Option i think.

3.1: I think so for 1.000 Points Sigvald + a Little One, A other Opion would be CE + Mask.

3.2: Thats your Choose. I think the Blissbarb Archer are not as good as they look. I think Hellstrider are the Must have in a Hedonit List because of Points, the mass of Dmg they can take and the Speed + the Area they can block. Good Unit.

3.3: Lord of Pain is just for Painbringer and Twinsoul List. Painbringer are Ooookay but not super. Twinssouls are in a Unit of 10 very good dmg Dealer. very Good, speciall against low-Save Units (like Horrors 4 exampel)

3.4: Fiends are okay but too (like everything) expencive. I think in a Unit of 6 they are Okay, expelly if u are in Kombi with Glutos (jes there is just one -1 to Hit Malus but u cant negate it with the +1 to Hit CP-Command) for Summon there are better Option i think.

4. 

For Summoning i think u really Need  Exallted Charriot, 30-40 Damonettes, 1 KoS, 1 Infernall Enrapture, 1 Viceleader. Normaly this need for a 1.000 Point and a 2.000 Point. 

this are just my 2 Cent.

Just 1 more tipp: 1 Believe in 1.000 Point Games in Summoning, this could be your big Winning trick.

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14 minutes ago, ibel said:

hello, and welcome to a World of Pain ;)

so to 1: There are some Synergies more: First the Synergie KoS and Sigvald: Jes Sigvald is a "Murder" and with the Luzirad he come from 1 Side, than he must stand the 9" Charge with +3 and a ReRoll with CP he is very Save in and fight first and with a KoS Command ability he can fight twice before our Oppoinent but jes ist very hard in a Army of 1.000 Points. Annother good Option is the CE (Contorted Epitome) with ReRoll 1se Spell against W3 Units in 24". Good Option for Melee AND Missel.

2: If u take Sigvald or a big Shooting Unit of Archer go for Luzerad. If not Goodseeker be at the Moment the Best Option i think.

3.1: I think so for 1.000 Points Sigvald + a Little One, A other Opion would be CE + Mask.

3.2: Thats your Choose. I think the Blissbarb Archer are not as good as they look. I think Hellstrider are the Must have in a Hedonit List because of Points, the mass of Dmg they can take and the Speed + the Area they can block. Good Unit.

3.3: Lord of Pain is just for Painbringer and Twinsoul List. Painbringer are Ooookay but not super. Twinssouls are in a Unit of 10 very good dmg Dealer. very Good, speciall against low-Save Units (like Horrors 4 exampel)

3.4: Fiends are okay but too (like everything) expencive. I think in a Unit of 6 they are Okay, expelly if u are in Kombi with Glutos (jes there is just one -1 to Hit Malus but u cant negate it with the +1 to Hit CP-Command) for Summon there are better Option i think.

4. 

For Summoning i think u really Need  Exallted Charriot, 30-40 Damonettes, 1 KoS, 1 Infernall Enrapture, 1 Viceleader. Normaly this need for a 1.000 Point and a 2.000 Point. 

this are just my 2 Cent.

Just 1 more tipp: 1 Believe in 1.000 Point Games in Summoning, this could be your big Winning trick.

Maybe here a List i think good go "okay" on 1k:

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:

Leaders
The Contorted Epitome (255)*
- General
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Artefact: Cameo of the Dark Prince
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
The Masque (135)*

Battleline
22 x Blissbarb Archers (360)*
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (135)*

Units
1 x Cockatrice (95)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
The Burning Head (20)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1000 / 1000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 52
Drops: 1

 

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Thank you guys very much! You are amazing :)

On 10/15/2021 at 10:52 AM, Enoby said:

Welcome :)

One of the most common complaints with Slaanesh is that the book lacks synergy. This isn't to say that it doesn't have its benefits - playing Slaves to Darkness recently it has reminded me that strong buffless warscrolls have advantages, but it does make the army weird to build for.

You've got to look at everything in the concept of roles, deciding what each unit will do in advance and have them perform that role. One advantage of little to no synergy is that list building is very free - there's no case of "I need to reserve 300 points for my buff pieces". On the other hand it can be a bit dry.

That said, the Lord of Pain does have a decent command ability when it's put on Glutos or even Painbringers.

 

Okay, it's good to hear that I did not overlook anything special. And I completely agree with you on the advantage of not having to reserve points for key-units. That's what I meant when I was talking about the "leader-dependency" of my FEC. The synergies are obvious but once your Kings are gone your army usually goes down the drain.

On 10/15/2021 at 10:52 AM, Enoby said:

Out of the hosts, on their own, no particular one is amazing. Godseekers is probably the best at base, just due to the easy summoning charge range. I personally prefer Invaders, who have the Skin Taker command trait which can be a lot of fun on a Keeper of Secrets with the amulet of Destiny. The Rod of Misrule is also a lot of fun.

Personally I don't reckon much to Pretenders. They're not terrible but the command traits aren't good enough compared to Invaders and Godseekers for it to be the main bonus, and it's quite rare that you'll have a unit of 10 or more to benefit from the other ability.

Lurid Haze is probably the most easy and generally best variant host. The rules are as follows:

- Billowing Mists: Remove D3 of your set up units after deployment. Teleport them out of 9" of the enemy and 6" of the table edge at the end of your moment phase. 

- Feverish Anticipation (forced command trait): Reroll run rolls within 12" of this general.

- Forced artifact: Add one to the bearer's wound characteristic. 

- Command ability: all heroes gain access to a command ability that gives a unit within 12" +1 to save rolls. This is like All Out Defence but better as it can be used any phase and I believe at any time during save rolls. In addition it can be used in the same phase as All Out Defence.

So the best/most simple way to use this is teleport Sigvald and either run or teleport a Keeper of Secrets. Have him charge, strike first, and then pile in again immediately. This is probably the closest thing we have to synergy :P  

Thank you very much for writing down the Lurid Haze traits. I guess Ill just try the hosts out and see what fits my playstyle best. 
Regarding the KoS: You're talking about Excess of Violence right? But wheres the "synergy" with Sigvald? Or do you mean that I should use the Excess of Violence on Sigvald, to get the most out of "Glorious Reborn"? 

 

On 10/15/2021 at 10:52 AM, Enoby said:

The Masque is really good, and the Shardspeaker can be, but it's really dependant on what other units you have in 1000 points. Neither pack a punch so you'll need something to pick up the slack.

Sigvald isn't actually a bad choice in 1k points, but I would recommend him with Lurid Haze at this level just to ensure he sees combat ASAP - otherwise you can have a pricey model doing nothing. 

Since another user here suggested it: I'd probably switch out the Shardspeaker for the "Contorted Epitome", it's a litte more expensive but packs a punch, has some sort of CC and Debuff. 

Why do you think the Masque doesn't pack a punch? Coming from an army that basically has 0 Rend (except for the Chad-Gheist) it's profile seems fine. :D

I'd really love to have Sigvald at 1K points but I kinda fear he'll charge once and then die. :D Which is why I'd like to bubble-wrap him a little.

On 10/15/2021 at 10:52 AM, Enoby said:

Is there any reason you think this? :) They're not bad by any stretch, but don't do tonnes of damage for their price and die to a stiff breeze. They are very nice at screen clearing and a big unit of them can hurt a lot, but they don't benefit from our allegiance ability or any command abilities except the generic ones. They are very good at depravity generation too.

Their biggest issue will always been how quickly they die and the fact we often don't have the spare points for screens.

Yeah I like them for the simple reason that my current army doesn't have any ranged options at all (except for the Screams) and I don'T find their weaponsprofile too shabby. And as you said yourself, first thing that came to my mind when I was looking at their profile was: Depravity Points. I can see them as a reliable source.

 

On 10/15/2021 at 10:52 AM, Enoby said:

I like Painbringers and Twinsouls, the latter doing tonnes of damage against the right target and the former being a decent anvil that tanks very well, so I tend to use the Lord of Pain to make them battleline inside an Invaders army where I can have a better model be the real general. I'll rarely use his command ability on anything but himself or Glutos, or a unit of Painbringers in a clutch situation. It is actually very good on Slickblade Seekers, but good luck catching them with him.

As a side note, think of Painbringers as Liberators/Bloodwarriors/Chaos Warriors+; they are a bit too pricey, but they do around double the damage of the other units unbuffed. 

Think of Twinsouls as horde clearers. You never want a unit of more than 10 imo as they are super expensive and can just fail VS a goof save. 

That's a good point! I love the Slickblade Seekers, are they any good in game? Their profile seems decent. 

From your experience, did the Painbringers get better or worse with the FAQ? Seeing their old ability (reroll against melee) gone and changed into a +1 against melee seemed to be quite a substantial nerf.

Twinsouls are beautiful models, I already painted mine but I thought they'd be better if they had -1 rend.

On 10/15/2021 at 10:52 AM, Enoby said:

I do like summoning them if depravity is tight. Their issue is that their best attack is super swingy, and using them in a unit of 6 makes them suffer from coherency rules. That said, summoned in a unit of 3, they can't be ignored by a monster. If you do have 12+ depravity though, you're better summoning 30 daemonettes or a KoS.

This seems about right :) I think you'll usually generate about enough for two Keepers in a game depending on your list, so having 3p daemonettes, a KoS, and three fiends on standby sounds about right.  

Perfect!

 

On 10/15/2021 at 10:57 AM, ibel said:

so to 1: There are some Synergies more: First the Synergie KoS and Sigvald: Jes Sigvald is a "Murder" and with the Luzirad he come from 1 Side, than he must stand the 9" Charge with +3 and a ReRoll with CP he is very Save in and fight first and with a KoS Command ability he can fight twice before our Oppoinent but jes ist very hard in a Army of 1.000 Points. Annother good Option is the CE (Contorted Epitome) with ReRoll 1se Spell against W3 Units in 24". Good Option for Melee AND Missel.

Yeah thank you very much! As mentioned above the CE seems like a viable option/alternative to my idea of a list. So just so I get this right, the idea is to let Sigvald fight twice, so he can murder everything? And then hope, he won't get knocked out?

 

On 10/15/2021 at 10:57 AM, ibel said:

hello, and welcome to a World of Pain ;)

so to 1: There are some Synergies more: First the Synergie KoS and Sigvald: Jes Sigvald is a "Murder" and with the Luzirad he come from 1 Side, than he must stand the 9" Charge with +3 and a ReRoll with CP he is very Save in and fight first and with a KoS Command ability he can fight twice before our Oppoinent but jes ist very hard in a Army of 1.000 Points. Annother good Option is the CE (Contorted Epitome) with ReRoll 1se Spell against W3 Units in 24". Good Option for Melee AND Missel.

2: If u take Sigvald or a big Shooting Unit of Archer go for Luzerad. If not Goodseeker be at the Moment the Best Option i think.

3.1: I think so for 1.000 Points Sigvald + a Little One, A other Opion would be CE + Mask.

3.2: Thats your Choose. I think the Blissbarb Archer are not as good as they look. I think Hellstrider are the Must have in a Hedonit List because of Points, the mass of Dmg they can take and the Speed + the Area they can block. Good Unit.

3.3: Lord of Pain is just for Painbringer and Twinsoul List. Painbringer are Ooookay but not super. Twinssouls are in a Unit of 10 very good dmg Dealer. very Good, speciall against low-Save Units (like Horrors 4 exampel)

3.4: Fiends are okay but too (like everything) expencive. I think in a Unit of 6 they are Okay, expelly if u are in Kombi with Glutos (jes there is just one -1 to Hit Malus but u cant negate it with the +1 to Hit CP-Command) for Summon there are better Option i think.

4. 

For Summoning i think u really Need  Exallted Charriot, 30-40 Damonettes, 1 KoS, 1 Infernall Enrapture, 1 Viceleader. Normaly this need for a 1.000 Point and a 2.000 Point. 

this are just my 2 Cent.

Just 1 more tipp: 1 Believe in 1.000 Point Games in Summoning, this could be your big Winning trick.

1: Okay, so that's what I assumed (see above). So the idea is to let Sigvald murder everything and hope there's nothing left. KoS is however barely an option at 1000 points. 

2. Okay.

3.1: Yeah I think I'm going with CE + Mask and see how it goes from there.

3.2: This is another great point. How do you use the Hellstriders? Their profile doesn't seem all too great. They don't deal too much damage and once they charged, they're stuck in melee? (The Cavalry experience :P)

3.3.: Yeah as mentioned above, would've liked them with a -1 rend.

3.4: That's my plan Ill summon them :)

4. So I got the right idea, but quite a lot of models to paint. I love the Infernal Enrapturess!

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Does anyone have any experience with using Nurgle as allies??

The pusgoyle blightlords (185pt, 14W, 4+, 5+) seem solid for locking enemy units up in combat and generating depravity over multiple turns.

Plus they have a few interesting ways to generate mortal wounds (Beasts of Nurgle, Bloab Rotspawn). Could even get a GUO in the ally limit.

That said would probably avoid plaguebearers as too reliant on faction buffs.

 

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On 10/16/2021 at 6:08 PM, SevenXes said:

Regarding the KoS: You're talking about Excess of Violence right? But wheres the "synergy" with Sigvald? Or do you mean that I should use the Excess of Violence on Sigvald, to get the most out of "Glorious Reborn"? 

When I said synergy, I more meant ''''Synergy'''' in that it's not exactly a combo - but yes, you're right, it's with Glorious Reborn. The idea is that you charge him, get like a 7, he immediately attacks first and then he piles in again for effectively 14 uninterrupted attacks, which will usually finish something off. 

On 10/16/2021 at 6:08 PM, SevenXes said:

Since another user here suggested it: I'd probably switch out the Shardspeaker for the "Contorted Epitome", it's a litte more expensive but packs a punch, has some sort of CC and Debuff. 

The Epitome is good - definitely a nice horde clearer with Hysterical Frenzy, or you can go full ham and give them Flaming Weapon to give their 9 attacks 2 damage each.

On 10/16/2021 at 6:08 PM, SevenXes said:

Why do you think the Masque doesn't pack a punch? Coming from an army that basically has 0 Rend (except for the Chad-Gheist) it's profile seems fine. :D

Ahh, I should have been more specific - she does very well for her points and role, but I meant more that she won't be wiping out any big units :) That's not necessarily an issue, but it does mean that you'll need something else big in your army to bring the hurt.

On 10/16/2021 at 6:08 PM, SevenXes said:

I'd really love to have Sigvald at 1K points but I kinda fear he'll charge once and then die. :D Which is why I'd like to bubble-wrap him a little.

I've used him a few times at 1k and I've not had any issues with his survivability, so long as you give him All Out Defence/Mystic Shield when possible :) He can act as a primary damage hero if needs be, especially against things like Hearthgaurd or any psychopath who brings Gotrek at 1000pts :P

On 10/16/2021 at 6:08 PM, SevenXes said:

Yeah I like them for the simple reason that my current army doesn't have any ranged options at all (except for the Screams) and I don'T find their weaponsprofile too shabby. And as you said yourself, first thing that came to my mind when I was looking at their profile was: Depravity Points. I can see them as a reliable source.

They're definitely not a bad choice :) I do tend to use a unit or two in my lists, especially to get rid of other ranged units. 

On 10/16/2021 at 6:08 PM, SevenXes said:

That's a good point! I love the Slickblade Seekers, are they any good in game? Their profile seems decent. 

Slickblades, like many of our units, have a really good profile marred by an incredibly high points cost. I do like using them and they're fantastic models (some of my favourite in person) but they are a hefty points investment - be ready to spend CP saving them from battleshock (or cast the battleshock immunity spell on them from the mortal spell lore). They do a decent chunk of damage and are surprisingly resilient due to their high wounds. If you can get them on rerolling hits, they do an average of 8 wounds vs a 2+ save, 11 wounds vs a 3+ save, and 14 vs a 4+. 

On 10/16/2021 at 6:08 PM, SevenXes said:

From your experience, did the Painbringers get better or worse with the FAQ? Seeing their old ability (reroll against melee) gone and changed into a +1 against melee seemed to be quite a substantial nerf.

In general I think they got worse, but they're not awful should you be willing to give them another +1 save. They're worse against no rend and -1 rend, but a bit better vs -2 and above. It's an unfortunate casualty of the removal of rerolling saves throughout AoS.

On 10/16/2021 at 6:08 PM, SevenXes said:

Twinsouls are beautiful models, I already painted mine but I thought they'd be better if they had -1 rend.

Certainly much better, though I think their lack of rend makes them look worse than they are :) So long as you don't but them against a 2+ save model, they do very good damage - 10 of them do an average of 18 against a 3+ save when rerolling hits. 

Hope this all helps :)

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Sigvald is a hunter killer missile. Point, click, destroy and expect him to be wiped in retaliation. He’s a one-use nuke. Have other general(s). At 1k, he can cripple an army on his own in Lurid Haze if used correctly. 
Use Hellstriders as battleline for long objective steals, Sigvald as a missile, Synessa and Masque as other generals, Cogs to give Syn an extra spell or Sigvald more range, and two Hellstrider units for objectives. It’s not a lot, but it should blend pretty well at that point size. 

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So I was drawn into a 40K league the past couple of months, but a AoS is starting soon it seems. I will almost certainly be rocking the Hedonites and plan to share the games as they Escalate. 

That said though, has anyone played anything other than Lurid Haze. I think the other two subsubfactions are way worse. But I like the idea of Godseekers on their own. I was testing them before this league, and honestly think I really want to push it further. Lurid Haze is easy to fall for, so I’m curious what others have experienced if you’ve gone off the beaten path. 

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Just now, Lurynsar said:

So I was drawn into a 40K league the past couple of months, but a AoS is starting soon it seems. I will almost certainly be rocking the Hedonites and plan to share the games as they Escalate. 

That said though, has anyone played anything other than Lurid Haze. I think the other two subsubfactions are way worse. But I like the idea of Godseekers on their own. I was testing them before this league, and honestly think I really want to push it further. Lurid Haze is easy to fall for, so I’m curious what others have experienced if you’ve gone off the beaten path. 

I run Godseekers exclusively.  +1 to charge helps summons get into combat more reliably, and having more open access to command traits and artefacts is welcome.

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6 hours ago, Lurynsar said:

That said though, has anyone played anything other than Lurid Haze. I think the other two subsubfactions are way worse. But I like the idea of Godseekers on their own. I was testing them before this league, and honestly think I really want to push it further. Lurid Haze is easy to fall for, so I’m curious what others have experienced if you’ve gone off the beaten path.

I've played Pretenders in friendly games and I do think they're a bit naff compared to the other two, but I think you could make them work. The Sceptre of Domination (I think that's it's name) is a pretty neat artifact, and the Amulet of Destiny going on a KoS with Master of Magic and Slothful Stupor is pretty fun:

Army Name: Slaanesh (Pretenders)

Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh

Army Type: Pretenders

Battlepack: Pitched Battles

Points Limit: 2000 pts

General: Keeper of Secrets

Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery

Units

 Hellstriders with Claw-spears

  Battlefield Role: Battleline

  Points Cost: 135 pts

 Ungor Raiders (Coalition Ally)

  Battlefield Role: Other

  Points Cost: 90 pts

Core Battalions

 Warlord

  Keeper of Secrets (General)

   Battalion Slot Filled: Commander

   Battlefield Role: Behemoth, Leader

   Command Traits: Master of Magic, Strongest Alone

   Artefacts of Power: Amulet of Destiny

   Spells: Slothful Stupor

   Points Cost: 420 pts

  Synessa

   Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander

   Battlefield Role: Leader

   Points Cost: 260 pts

  Blissbarb Archers

   Battalion Slot Filled: Troops

   Battlefield Role: Battleline

   Points Cost: 180 pts

  Blissbarb Archers

   Battalion Slot Filled: Troops

   Battlefield Role: Battleline

   Points Cost: 180 pts

  Shardspeaker of Slaanesh

   Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander

   Battlefield Role: Leader

   Points Cost: 150 pts

  Glutos Orscollion

   Battalion Slot Filled: Commander

   Battlefield Role: Behemoth, Leader

   Spells: Battle Rapture

   Points Cost: 475 pts

Endless Spells/Invocations

 Umbral Spellportal

  Points Cost: 70 pts

Total Points: 1960 pts

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General idea is for Glutos to stick the Spell Portal up for the KoS to Slothful Stupor the scariest monster through it. Note, this won't work against Tzeentch or Lumineth very well, but in a casual sense it's good against things like Mawkrushas, Gotrek (outside Lumineth), and kind of Archaon (if you can get over than 4+ ignore). It's not the be all and end all of the strategy, but it's concerning enough.

Blissbarbs, Synessa, and Raiders are there for some chip damage for some DP, and hurting shooting units the enemy may have. 

Glutos is the target of the KoS's command ability. I was thinking about a second KoS, but decided against it as it's much more fragile without the AoD and wouldn't have the spell casting potential for things like Mystic Shield/Arcane Bolt. His command ability is in the Hero phase, so you can use it and have him benefit from All Out Defence or the KoS's command ability in the Combat Phase. If he uses All out Defence/Attack on the KoS, I think the KoS can use its CA on him. 

The Hellstriders and the Raiders are more there as screens and objective sitters for the first turn. 

The biggest issue is how swingy the KoS. It doesn't do loads of damage on average, but can spike hard. Hopefully with Glutos's -1 to hit and the AoD, plus its own healing, it can stick around long enough to be useful. 

The Shardspeaker is just kind of there; her spell's okay and the +1 to wound is theoretically good (but never works), but I wanted an unnamed hero to hold the Sceptre. The Sceptre itself is suprisingly annoying as it's both hero phases - as long as you get close enough, it's a better version of Heroic Inspiration as it steals a CP off the opponent. The alternative would be a Lord of Pain or Herald, and I don't think either are as useful. 

---

For info, the average damage of Strongest Alone KoS vs normal Glutos:Screenshot_20211021-101921_Chrome.jpg.001620c9b9f79e402c9ab453bdfb129c.jpg 

So he is generally a better target for the CA than another KoS (though the KoS has roar). With the Pretenders ability, it's probably best to summon 30 daemonettes.

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Siggy is our most damaging unit and, in the age of ward saves, one of the game's few ways around that. He's probably the best shot anyone has at killing Gotrek, in all honesty. 

It cannot be understated, either, how much damage he can do on the charge, with Finest Hour up and a Keeper to back his play. It's super points-heavy (and obviously cannot be done at 1k) but he can kill basically anything in the situation. He's also quite tanky, so unless your opponent throws a bunch of mortal wounds at him, he's likely to come out OK. 

Also, he's one of our few sources of decent rend. Slaanesh sorely wants for rend better than -1. I've recently finished up 2k of Skaven and have been playing a lot of games with them, and I was amazed at the multiple sources of high rend/mortals they have. 

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44 minutes ago, Enoby said:

It's a great list and I've already had some success with making certain elements of it work well for me.  Blissbarb Seekers are great, and Cockatrices are fragile but perform. 

Still Struggling to get the proper usage of an Epitome down, but I can see why it SHOULD be extremely valuable. 

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The Epitome is enjoying great success in Legions of the First Prince lists apparently, as it gains access to their fourfold blade item that does D3 wounds (maybe mortals) on a 5+, making it into quite the killing machine. 

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I'm unfortunately not going to be able to get to tournaments for awhile to test this, but I came up with a list after considering what has worked well for top players (and re-evaluating my opinions on depravity-farming):

List Name: Step on me Cyclops-Daddy
Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Inspired

LEADERS
Synessa, The Voice of Slaanesh (260)*
Viceleader, Herald of Slaanesh (140)**
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation

BATTLELINE
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)*
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)*
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)*

UNITS
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (220)*
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (220)*
5 x Slickblade Seekers (230)**
5 x Slickblade Seekers (230)**
1 x Fomoroid Crusher (110)**
- Allies
1 x Cockatrice (95)**
-Coalition

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

TOTAL: 2000/2000

Drops: 2

Gameplan here is to make use of the Fane as a nexus point for depravity farming by keeping the fomoroid next to it, swinging potential d3 MW into all of my units on my first turn, and using the 3 starting monsters to begin the game by immediately going for ferocious advance. The viceleader spends turn 1 casting emerald lifeswarm and probably born of damnation to heal up or arcane shield if neither of my heroes are hurting much, and Synessa calls up the cogs in the direction she intends to head over the next 2 turns. If I'm not in imminent danger and can place my fane well enough I'll shoot for going 2nd and hoping for a doubleturn in my favor, either saving for a 30 'nette drop turn 2, or seekers turn 1 if there's an objective I need to peel off towards and then whatever is appropriate turn 2. Then I'll proceed to play a bit cagey with Synessa and the cockatrice, working to get them into enemy territory by turn 3 for savage spearhead (though if I see an opportunity to cherry-tap kill a viable target for slay the warlord, bring it down, or broken ranks with their combined mortal wounds I'll jump on that first), using monstrous takeover with the fomoroid turn 2, hoping to keep it either within 6" of the fane or another piece of terrain as appropriate. Depending on the matchup I may just toss a keeper into enemy territory with depravity if the cockatrice bites it.

My main weakness here is going to be shooting, however I'll have the movement to dance at the edges of ranges for a lot of potential dangers, and the cyclops can be easily zoned out of melee danger with the seeker chariots. Unbinding won't be as much of an issue, since I can guarantee the location of my initial fane-pain-train I can make sure I'm out of range of all but the most overextended casters, and the core depravity generation isn't spell-based like the burning head would be, so the only thing a magic dom would stop is my ability to sustain things over 3 or more turns. With average luck I'll ideally be managing 6-10 depravity each turn (potentially more) as long as my designated-dom cyclops sticks around, and that's only from my own units being damaged, any unfortunate enemies that want to get stuck into that mess are only going to add to the fun. The only thing that has a decent chance of killing the fomoroid is concentrated ranged fire, and I can keep it out of LOS by hiding behind the fane in a number of cases. Ambushing ranged units will potentially be an issue, but beyond zoning them out using the other units I can accept that I have a solid counter to my strategy and switch to a more mundane strategy if my fomoroid gets shanked fairly early. Against SOB I will probably try to utilize Synessa to Slothful Stupor strategic pieces to keep them from getting into melee, then descending on them individually to try and kill them one by one as quickly as I can.

I could try splitting the points from the exalted seekers into other smaller units to increase the yield, but I like the seekers for the tactical flexibility they offer, as well as being very wound dense with a small number of models. Not a single unit will risk battleshock from the first turn of wounds, and at 5 models they can be maneuvered quite easily to toe into the 6" radius of the fomoroid's ability. I would love to run 4 units of blissbarb seekers so I can switch to hellstriders instead of seeker chariots, but I'm limited to what I have on-hand and slickblades are still a solid offensive linebreaker/countercharger, so I'm not terribly upset.

Edited by CeleFAZE
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The more I play Slaves to Darkness, the more I believe we would feel so much better with a considerable points decrease. I think Slaanesh warscrolls are generally better than the S2D ones, but S2D lets you use a wide variety of different warscrolls in every list thanks to a low price so you can easily have experimental techs from within the faction. 

Myrmidesh Painbringers at 120 would be 👌

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2 hours ago, Enoby said:

The more I play Slaves to Darkness, the more I believe we would feel so much better with a considerable points decrease. I think Slaanesh warscrolls are generally better than the S2D ones, but S2D lets you use a wide variety of different warscrolls in every list thanks to a low price so you can easily have experimental techs from within the faction. 

Myrmidesh Painbringers at 120 would be 👌

No doubt Painbringers at 120 would be excellent - but at that point they're probably worth it at that cost, AND they have non-zero DP synergy by virtue of being tough and dealing hard to cancel damage via Mortal Wounds.  

I'm hoping for discounts at some point, but I'm also hoping for my opponents sake that they're deepest where our units do the least for our summoning mechanics.  Units like KoS, Daemonettes, Seekers, etc. where they lack any sort of synergy (like survival or damage tricks) that help them pay for replacements need a big discount IMO, bit I worry that if things like Painbringers get a lot cheaper they could result in snowball games because they'll do very well in the long term paying for themselves. 

That said, 160 is... a big ask for Painbringers.  

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Afternoon all, new Hedonite here. I’m playing my first 3.0 at the weekend against Lumineth and I am very worried about beating them. 
we are playing a simple 1000 points. 
I want to play an all mortal army just for fun reasons. Currently I’ve got 1 Lord of pain, 1 Shardspeaker, 2x Blissbarb Archers, Cockatrice and Fomoroid Crusher. I have about 130 points left. 
we are mainly playing for fun and to get around the new rules but what are the current thoughts of playing against Lumineth. I’m terrified of their shooting and even the battleline troops dishing out Mortal Wounds. I’d like to be competitive and really hate losing!

id appreciate any advice on tactics against them, thoughts on my provisional army, what to spend my final points on? I’m not adverse to re-writing the list but this is painted at the moment so kinda what I want to go for…

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32 minutes ago, Dave8210 said:

Afternoon all, new Hedonite here. I’m playing my first 3.0 at the weekend against Lumineth and I am very worried about beating them. 
we are playing a simple 1000 points. 
I want to play an all mortal army just for fun reasons. Currently I’ve got 1 Lord of pain, 1 Shardspeaker, 2x Blissbarb Archers, Cockatrice and Fomoroid Crusher. I have about 130 points left. 
we are mainly playing for fun and to get around the new rules but what are the current thoughts of playing against Lumineth. I’m terrified of their shooting and even the battleline troops dishing out Mortal Wounds. I’d like to be competitive and really hate losing!

id appreciate any advice on tactics against them, thoughts on my provisional army, what to spend my final points on? I’m not adverse to re-writing the list but this is painted at the moment so kinda what I want to go for…

It really depends on what your opponent brings, but Hedonites into LRL is about as uphill as can be imagined.  I won my one actual game thus far vs. LRL by Be'lakoring their sentinels and ignoring Teclis, getting the 1 into 2 double, and generally applying pressure to everything they had that could potentially score.  

Your choice of units thus far isn't bad, and will do OK at generating depravity. 130 remaining points is an awkward spot for Hedonites, getting only a chariot I believe... not a bad buy, but also not mortal.  

The key to success with hedonites is generally to lean into the DP mechanic and generate advantage by numbers.  That said, applying that against LRL depends heavily on what they bring.  If it's foxes, you HAVE to eliminate foxes to give yourself the ability to maneuver.  If it's sentinels, you need to cripple them ASAP or they'll remove your potential summoners with ease.  

I'd say good luck, but prepare for frustration.  It's not a puzzle you're likely to solve your first game. 

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20 hours ago, Dave8210 said:

Afternoon all, new Hedonite here. I’m playing my first 3.0 at the weekend against Lumineth and I am very worried about beating them. 
we are playing a simple 1000 points. 
I want to play an all mortal army just for fun reasons. Currently I’ve got 1 Lord of pain, 1 Shardspeaker, 2x Blissbarb Archers, Cockatrice and Fomoroid Crusher. I have about 130 points left. 
we are mainly playing for fun and to get around the new rules but what are the current thoughts of playing against Lumineth. I’m terrified of their shooting and even the battleline troops dishing out Mortal Wounds. I’d like to be competitive and really hate losing!

id appreciate any advice on tactics against them, thoughts on my provisional army, what to spend my final points on? I’m not adverse to re-writing the list but this is painted at the moment so kinda what I want to go for…

I have to echo what @KrispyXIV said -- LRL is a really tough proposition for us. They have better spellcasting, better melee, better shooting, and better saves. At least you don't have to deal with Teclis at 1k. 

If you could get access to Hellstriders or Seekers, you'd have a better shot. LRL are a powerful control army and have many ways of locking things down, but they don't play the objective game super well (although they're better after the last update to their range). Play for objectives and ignore anything that isn't fast or Sentinels. LRL are an elite army so he likely won't have a ton of bodies. 

Regarding Sentinels: fielding support heroes (like your LoP and Shardspeaker) is an exercise in futility against their no-scope shenanigans. He'll simply delete a hero a turn. Seekers are great against them, but the Masque is better as she's more durable. Both assume they're not buffed up with Power of Hysh or Lambent Light, because if they are their Unleash Hell will just delete your unit. 

Also, I hope for your sake he doesn't have foxes. If he does, try to get your Blissbarbs in range and kill it. But if he's a competent player, you won't be able to touch it/them. Slaanesh are one of the worst-equipped armies to deal with them. 

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14 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

Wish me luck, fellow hedonites. I just sent in a submission for Black Library's open call that's from a Slaaneshi perspective, with a bit of a twist.

Good luck! I was also thinking about submitting something, but I haven't had time. 

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30 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

Wish me luck, fellow hedonites. I just sent in a submission for Black Library's open call that's from a Slaaneshi perspective, with a bit of a twist.

Good luck! We could really do with some more Hedonite fiction and I reckon you'd do a really great job :)

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On 10/26/2021 at 8:00 AM, Dave8210 said:

Afternoon all, new Hedonite here. I’m playing my first 3.0 at the weekend against Lumineth and I am very worried about beating them. 
we are playing a simple 1000 points. 
I want to play an all mortal army just for fun reasons. Currently I’ve got 1 Lord of pain, 1 Shardspeaker, 2x Blissbarb Archers, Cockatrice and Fomoroid Crusher. I have about 130 points left. 
we are mainly playing for fun and to get around the new rules but what are the current thoughts of playing against Lumineth. I’m terrified of their shooting and even the battleline troops dishing out Mortal Wounds. I’d like to be competitive and really hate losing!

id appreciate any advice on tactics against them, thoughts on my provisional army, what to spend my final points on? I’m not adverse to re-writing the list but this is painted at the moment so kinda what I want to go for…

When you say all-mortal, do you mean all mortal starting on the board, or completely forgoing summoning?

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