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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion


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On 10/2/2021 at 7:17 PM, azdimy said:

I got it, what a strange list.  Looks like a beast of chaos with slaanesh summoning?

Screenshot_20211002-125159_Twitter.jpg

Vince Venturella just said Bill went 5-0 with this list - interesting! 

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For some more info on what he played against :)Screenshot_20211004-091756_Twitter.jpg.b672cd3db266dccc8670f0fd43b028ae.jpg

So by no means a super easy ride, though I would assume no Archaon (which I think this list would struggle with thanks to its reliance on mortal wounds). 

Definitely something to think about. It's mortal wound output is pretty brutal, with the potential 4D6+1D3+Blissbarb shooting mortal wounds at range (though more likely 1-2D6+2D3+6ish from Blissbarbs). 

Really would like to have seen a game with it.

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Being able to ping out fairly reliable wounds at range is obviously good for depravity too, he mentioned being able to summon 800-1200 points worth of free stuff per game, which is nothing to sneer at, of course.

I'm not a big fan of allies/coalition units in general though, so personally it's not a list that excites me much.  At least Cocatrices are models which it shouldn't be too hard to find a Slaanesh-looking alternate sculpt for, I suppose.

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4 hours ago, Enoby said:

Really would like to have seen a game with it.

Would be cool to see one of the best player in the world play the list he made. If only GW streamed some of the aos games at their US events. They only stream the 40k side of it. It s a real shame

Also, as a Slaanesh player, I would have loved to play against that list giving me all these depravity points! 😀

There were definitely some bad matchups that the list avoided

Edited by azdimy
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20 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

Being able to ping out fairly reliable wounds at range is obviously good for depravity too, he mentioned being able to summon 800-1200 points worth of free stuff per game, which is nothing to sneer at, of course.

I'm not a big fan of allies/coalition units in general though, so personally it's not a list that excites me much.  At least Cocatrices are models which it shouldn't be too hard to find a Slaanesh-looking alternate sculpt for, I suppose.

Any idea what his preferred summons were?

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9 hours ago, Enoby said:

For some more info on what he played against :)Screenshot_20211004-091756_Twitter.jpg.b672cd3db266dccc8670f0fd43b028ae.jpgSo by no means a super easy ride, though I would assume no Archaon (which I think this list would struggle with thanks to its reliance on mortal wounds). 

Definitely something to think about. It's mortal wound output is pretty brutal, with the potential 4D6+1D3+Blissbarb shooting mortal wounds at range (though more likely 1-2D6+2D3+6ish from Blissbarbs). 

Really would like to have seen a game with it.

How you get 4d6? At 4+ 3 cockatrices do 1-2d6 and then roll for the damage that is 4 or 7 (talking about average).
It's a very poor output, near armies like LRL/DoK/SCE/Skaven.

So....ok, he is a very good player, but in a "normal situation" how you prevent Snakes, Giants and Ironjwas from wipe you out? Maybe his oppenets played poorly. I'm really curious about the complete battle report.

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13 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

How you get 4d6? At 4+ 3 cockatrices do 1-2d6 and then roll for the damage that is 4 or 7 (talking about average).
It's a very poor output, near armies like LRL/DoK/SCE/Skaven.

I said that it was a potential 4D6 - as in the maximum :) After that I said "though more likely 1-2D6+2D3+6ish from Blissbarbs".

It's maximum 4D6 under the following unlikely circumstances:

- All cockatrice get a 4+

- Synessa rolls under their save 

- and then probably more likely 5 Mortal Wounds from Blissbarbs

- Burning Head cast on a rerolling spell

The realistic number I gave was:

- One to two cockatrices getting a 4+

- Synessa rolls over their save

- Burning head cast on a 7 rerolling

- and then probably more likely 5 Mortal Wounds from Blissbarbs

So I think we agree, I'm just not sure you read what I wrote fully :)

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1 minute ago, Enoby said:

I said that it was a potential 4D6 - as in the maximum :) After that I said "though more likely 1-2D6+2D3+6ish from Blissbarbs".

It's maximum 4D6 under the following unlikely circumstances:

- All cockatrice get a 4+

- Synessa rolls under their save 

- and then probably more likely 5 Mortal Wounds from Blissbarbs

The realistic number I gave was:

- One to two cockatrices getting a 4+

- Synessa rolls over their save

- and then probably more likely 5 Mortal Wounds from Blissbarbs

So I think we agree, I'm just not sure you read what I wrote fully :)

Yep, maybe I readed fast, but what's important of my intervention reamains: this is not a "pretty brutal" output at all.

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1 minute ago, Holy_Diver said:

Yep, maybe I readed fast, but what's important of my intervention reamains: this is not a "pretty brutal" output at all.

I mean, in terms of Mortal Wounds, an average of about 4+2+2+5(+4) is either 13MWs or 17MWs depending on the cockatrice, which is pretty brutal for mortal wounds (not necessarily overall damage). 

It's not stunning, and I'm not suggesting it'll rock a tournament scene without a very skilled player, but 30 Lumineth archers do about 5 Mortal Wounds (or 10 when rerolling) and they're considered pretty nice mortal wounds. 

I imagine it's more for easy depravity generation and then small hero sniping, rather than wiping someone's army off the board without a save. 

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10 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I mean, in terms of Mortal Wounds, an average of about 4+2+2+5(+4) is either 13MWs or 17MWs depending on the cockatrice, which is pretty brutal for mortal wounds (not necessarily overall damage). 

It's not stunning, and I'm not suggesting it'll rock a tournament scene without a very skilled player, but 30 Lumineth archers do about 5 Mortal Wounds (or 10 when rerolling) and they're considered pretty nice mortal wounds. 

I imagine it's more for easy depravity generation and then small hero sniping, rather than wiping someone's army off the board without a save. 

The problem is not in the numbers, but in the conditions to maximize: 3 cokcatrices within 10", must see the target and then roll 4+; Synessa within 18", must see the target and then roll under armor save, etc...and this list haven't deep strikes, ambush or ways to increase threat range. So even if you roll hot at your turn, the next you are in the face of the enemy.

Wanna talk about Sentinels/Melusai/Judicators? 😁

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5 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

The problem is not in the numbers, but in the conditions to maximize: 3 cokcatrices within 10", must see the target and then roll 4+; Synessa within 18", must see the target and then roll under armor save, etc...and this list haven't deep strikes, ambush or ways to increase threat range. So even if you roll hot at your turn, the next you are in the face of the enemy.

Wanna talk about Sentinels/Melusai/Judicators? 😁

Oh yeah, it's not a perfect list and in all honesty I doubt going all in on mortal wounds would have been the strategy here - I was just saying it could do some decent mortal wounds :P

But yes, there are units that can do more.

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56 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

The problem is not in the numbers, but in the conditions to maximize: 3 cokcatrices within 10", must see the target and then roll 4+; Synessa within 18", must see the target and then roll under armor save, etc...and this list haven't deep strikes, ambush or ways to increase threat range. So even if you roll hot at your turn, the next you are in the face of the enemy.

Wanna talk about Sentinels/Melusai/Judicators? 😁

Bow snakes and sentinels are not particularly tough turn 1 without their defensive tech, and are pretty big footprint wise to hide on most tables.  This list has a lot of fast, mobile shooting that can probably threaten them regardless of where they end up - and what remains probably isn't going to wipe him off the table.  

If he goes second, he deploys out of range of getting double shot by snakes, puts his summoner Heroes in bfe out of shooting range (or relies on his fane to summon), and knows for a fact he isn't getting doubled - in fact he threatens the double himself.  

Also, he's MSU so unless his opponent risks under killing stuff incoming damage is likely to overkill units and limit the overall incoming damage to him.  

It's not exactly foolproof, but I can imagine a game plan for those match-up. 

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16 hours ago, KrispyXIV said:

Bow snakes and sentinels are not particularly tough turn 1 without their defensive tech, and are pretty big footprint wise to hide on most tables.  This list has a lot of fast, mobile shooting that can probably threaten them regardless of where they end up - and what remains probably isn't going to wipe him off the table.  

If he goes second, he deploys out of range of getting double shot by snakes, puts his summoner Heroes in bfe out of shooting range (or relies on his fane to summon), and knows for a fact he isn't getting doubled - in fact he threatens the double himself.  

Also, he's MSU so unless his opponent risks under killing stuff incoming damage is likely to overkill units and limit the overall incoming damage to him.  

It's not exactly foolproof, but I can imagine a game plan for those match-up. 

IMHO you can't set up out of deep strike Judicators/Melusai or 36" range of blind shooting Sentinels. 
And one of these players targets one of your only 2 heroes. And we're talking about a single unit... then there's the rest of the army.

Boys, I let's research the battle reports if possible, because this list in the hand on many will do near nothing, out of being pityful.
I wanna see what Bill Souza have done and then talk about it.

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1 hour ago, Holy_Diver said:

IMHO you can't set up out of deep strike Judicators/Melusai or 36" range of blind shooting Sentinels. 
And one of these players targets one of your only 2 heroes. And we're talking about a single unit... then there's the rest of the army.

Boys, I let's research the battle reports if possible, because this list in the hand on many will do near nothing, out of being pityful.
I wanna see what Bill Souza have done and then talk about it.

And KO, and Tzeentch. I ve seen a somewhat similar list with low heroes and all the blissbarb seekers go 0 and 5

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19 hours ago, Holy_Diver said:

IMHO you can't set up out of deep strike Judicators/Melusai or 36" range of blind shooting Sentinels. 
And one of these players targets one of your only 2 heroes. And we're talking about a single unit... then there's the rest of the army.

I musst agree. It would be very interresting what he would do against a First Turn Shootie heavy List ?!

In my Meta there ist 30-40 % First Turn Shooting (KO, LRL(15%)Dok and Tzeenth)

but the Cockatrice i like very much. My next Army Build would be:

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (475)
-
Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Dark Delusions
Lord of Pain (155)
-
General
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Artefact: Cameo of the Dark Prince
One-Eyed Grunnock (470)*
-
Allies

Battleline
5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (160)**
5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (160)**
10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (370)**
-
Reinforced x 1

Units
1 x Cockatrice (95)*
1 x Cockatrice (95)*

Core Battalions
*Alpha-Beast Pack
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 470 / 400
Wounds: 114
Drops: 8

 

But at the Moment I miss many of the Minis so i Hope i will finish this Army at Chrismas 2021

 

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9 hours ago, ibel said:

but the Cockatrice i like very much. 

The Cockatrice is the new Jabberslythe from AoS 1 where you saw 2 in every chaos list.  There was a beasts of chaos list with 3 chimera's and 5 cockatrices do well (I think).  BoC has not good tools but they have incidental MW output in a good manner and in a save stacking meta it's a hilarious counter from a garbage army (I say that with love).

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13 hours ago, Popisdead said:

with 3 chimera's and 5 cockatrices do well (I think).

And they are all Monsters. So u can Score so easy so many extra Points. I like it very much. Very exciting

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It's been a while for the hedonites for me but I've had a couple of games and got my painting keen back with them! 

Won Vs KO 

Won Vs sbgl

Loss Vs LRL

So actually finished syn off because they did some work!!

 

 

PXL_20211010_165802891.jpg

PXL_20211010_165815090.jpg

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Hi all,

 

can I get a short overview of Slaanesh armies these days?

1. What about the shooty aspect of Slaanesh – any good?

2. What are the base tactics with Slaanesh?

3. What are the commonly seen models / units and why?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

HTG

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5 hours ago, Hannibal said:

Hi all,

 

can I get a short overview of Slaanesh armies these days?

1. What about the shooty aspect of Slaanesh – any good?

2. What are the base tactics with Slaanesh?

3. What are the commonly seen models / units and why?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

HTG

I wouldn't expect any particular aspect or warscroll to be particularly, overtly good in Slaanesh since all points of comparison will be better for the same cost, as Slaanesh is 'paying' for Summoning in all of its base costs..

That said, the shooting elements play well with the faction mechanics.

I've had the best luck in games where I'm able to generate lots of Depravity points, and then get an extra 800-1200 points of stuff over the course of the game, eventually 'overwhelming' our heavily taxed base costs and coming out 'ahead' of the curve on army size.  

Shooting units are great for applying damage widely, and enabling the farming of Depravity.  They're also functional enough in many cases to focus fire and eliminate a vulnerable target... but don't expect the sort of board clearing power you see in other armies.  

What's weird with addressing 'What units are commonly seen' is that the few people who have done notably well in events thus far with slaanesh have all had wildly different builds, with significantly different unit choices.  Even 'notably bad' warscrolls like Painbringers and Keepers of Secrets showed up in some peoples starting lists... so its hard to say with any confidence what is commonly seen/good.  The closest would be Synessa, who is a staple just about everywhere because she's good for one powerful spell, has very reliable and potent shooting (that if nothing else is a reliable DP), and has other general utility as a 9 wound Hero Monster.  

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13 hours ago, Hannibal said:

can I get a short overview of Slaanesh armies these days?

1. What about the shooty aspect of Slaanesh – any good?

2. What are the base tactics with Slaanesh?

3. What are the commonly seen models / units and why?

to 1: Ist okay but many other fraction are way better (because u want kill something because of DP and thinks like Extatic Killers just work in melee)

to 2: Because of everything is 15-30% to expensive on Points go and make DP. If u Arent Postibell to do it, good Luck.

to 3: Take the Units u want. No Unit is so good and effectiv thats a "must have"

 

Genrall: the true is Slaanesh is acutally not good. Play it if u really want, not for Tournement !

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Good evening my hedonistic friends,

Fles-Eater coming in peace and seeking advice:)

I recently got into Slaanesh + the Hedonites and made some obersvations and assumptions that I'd like to have your opinions on. 

As a start I decided to aim for 1000 points, I know there are a couple of lists in this thread with 2000 points featuring Glutos, Bel'akor etc. but I kinda want to start a little smaller. So heres what I think about the army after reading the codex + FAQ:

 

1. I find it hard to recognize synergies within the codex. Beeing a Flesh-Eater means having a couple of noble Lords who support your Knights and Peasents with powerful buffs & auras. The Hedonites however seem to lack these synergies. Granted we have Glutos and his Buffs + Syll'Eske but apart from these two there isn't much going on. Or am I missing something?

Theres oviously the advantage that the Hedonites aren't as dependant on their leaders as my noble Knights but still...

 

2. I'm having trouble finding a host (?). Neither Godseekers nor Invaders we're convincing, right now I believe that the Pretenders have the best traits. Is that so or am I overlooking something? I know theres also the "Lurid Haze Host" but since I don't own the book I can't really judge it.

 

3. A couple of questions regarding our Units:

- At lower point games I would probably take "The Masque" + "Shardspeaker" as leaders. I love Sigvald but he's just too expensive, albeit beeing a murder-machine. Could see this as an option?

- Blissbarb Archers seem to be a must in every list and judging by their warscroll I think they're probably the best unit in our Codex. 

- Whats the advantage of having a Lord of Pain? His Command-Ability is okay and if he's a general Twinsouls/Painbringers become Battleline, but to be honest neither the Twinsouls nor the Painbringers seem to be too great for their cost. And which units would profit the most from his ability?

- What's your opinion on Fiends? They seem to be pretty decent in every aspect. Can withstand damage and deal some. I wouldn't include them in my list but summon them later on. 

 

4. Summoning pool:

Right now I'm planning on getting 20 more Demonettes (then I'll have 30), a KoS and three Fiends. Is that too much? Unforunately I do not know how many DP are generally generated in a match at 1000 (2000) points. 

 

Thank you very much in advance for your input :)

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