AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Sorrow]

We already had our big release and time in the spotlight. I think that our most recent new points will be final for a long time.

There are numerous other factions in AoS that are in dire need of massive model updates and large additions. 

In Grand Alliance Chaos, Skaven and even Maggotkin need great attention.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

So I'm the only slaanesh player in my local area (aside from one greasy grognard whose still butthurt over fantasy and the double turn so he doesn't play often) and there's only one other slaanesh player that frequents our tournament scene. Slaanesh always struggled to pick up new players because sex, drugs and rock and roll always felt one note and we never had good sculpts to carry us like khorne did. So most people don't look beyond the surface to see slaanesh's narrative complexity. In the past few years we've gotten fantastic models, which really helped get eyes on us and it's near universally agreed our recent range is one of the best GW has ever sculpted. But that can only get us so far when our rules have been a mess since day one.

Our first battletome was near meta defining along side FEC and arguably stronger. We had a greasy way to play that we where shoe-honrned into by our books limited viable options and that really grated people. Some folks who showed interest in the army would be turned off by either the comp lists spamming the most expensive kit in the range or for fear of being known as "that guy" (a fate i managed to dodge by being a broke college student at the time and only owning one keeper that I got in the latter half of the books life cycle). Then book 2 rolls around and we get more top tier sculpts, hypes going around hopes are up and then the rules get revealed... and their not bad (mostly) but they're boring. Keep in mind we came in off the back of lumineth who have 2 page warscroll cards for basically everything and relatively complex rules that in many cases break or go against core rules. So going from wild rules essays like Teclis' warscroll to "reroll charges" or the award winning "roll 1 dice for each model in this unit, on a 4+ do a mortal wound" and each warscroll being lucky to have even 2 special rules was sheer whiplash.

Getting opinions from local players/store owners seems to be corroborated by the opinions others here have shared in regards to their own store owners. We're a beautiful army that no one wants to buy because our rules don't spark interest, double that up with anyone wanting a fast and punchy army would sooner pick up IDK which is also a beautiful army and super meta, or FEC who are just dirt cheap to collect. We loose out on new players because our most playable units aren't easy to collect on top of our rules outside of a few heroes being bland and/or bad.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

Speaking of collectability, we really could use a mortals SC box like nurgle or khorne. An infantry kit, exalted seeker kit and shardspeaker or LoP would be nice.

[MothmanDraws]

INVADERS
-Warlord Battalion- (extra relic)

Dexcessa 280

Lord of pain 155 (general)
-glory hog
-rod of misrule 

Shardspeaker 150 (general)
-battle rapture
-arcane tome

blissbarbs 180
painbringers 160
painbringers 160

-Vanguard detatchement-
sigvald 265 (general)
slickblade seeker 230
slickblade seeker 230

allies
untamed beasts 70
untamed beasts 70

Triumph-Inspired

1950

What im working with atm, think im correct in how enhancements work where you get 1 of each category then the battalion adds 1 to one of the categories. Dunno what to do with final 50 points, can drop slickblade to blissbarb seeker for extra 10 and take a life swarm or burning head+palisade. Its really hard to spend last bits. 

The intent of list is to just try hold ground a little and pray sigvald can do some stuff, he can pop the vanguard bonus for a charge re roll if he needs it. Untamed beasts are kind of just there for some extra msu, could fire the burning head through them and an enemy. Shardspeaker to keep bravery and throw out endless spell or some shields, maybe buff up units if lucky.

Gameplan is sigvald pushes in, tries to do what he can, supported by slickblades if they keep up, dexcessa is there for the 2nd turn pressure. Idea is to just try to pressure opponent into staying in their deployment zone while rest of units set up on objectives. Might shift it to lurid haze for better turn 1 defence or better attack angles. 

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by MothmanDraws

[Enoby]

The one thing I hope GW takes from this isn't "no one likes Slaanesh", but rather "we should have tried harder on the rules side". 

Hopefully, in the future (after others have their books), GW revisits us and has someone really passionate about Slaanesh write it. 

[Selpharia]

I mean, that’s all we really need. And the process flow we’ve seen from recent GW releases supports that it can happen that way. We’re probably far down the queue, but a) we don’t have the FAQ and b) points are the most easily adjusted thing in the system. 
 

Early times in a new edition are always tumultuous, so I’m going to keep painting my twins, pick up some mortals that look good, and try things out.

[Sorrow]

17 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

Getting opinions from local players/store owners seems to be corroborated by the opinions others here have shared in regards to their own store owners. We're a beautiful army that no one wants to buy because our rules don't spark interest, double that up with anyone wanting a fast and punchy army would sooner pick up IDK which is also a beautiful army and super meta, or FEC who are just dirt cheap to collect. We loose out on new players because our most playable units aren't easy to collect on top of our rules outside of a few heroes being bland and/or bad.

Great post all around but I wanted to comment on this particular part.

Games Workshop will continue to produce beautiful miniatures which will have good rules plus very interesting lore.

Soulblight being the most recent example and I have no doubt other factions will get similar treatment. 

 

[Sorrow]

32 minutes ago, Enoby said:

The one thing I hope GW takes from this isn't "no one likes Slaanesh", but rather "we should have tried harder on the rules side". 

Hopefully, in the future (after others have their books), GW revisits us and has someone really passionate about Slaanesh write it. 

Sadly, I am afraid "no one likes Slaanesh" will be GW conclusion.

[Nagashfan]

Slaanesh was looking great going into 3 with our prior points…. All it takes is some points to come down and we will be there again which will happen

[Enoby]

3 minutes ago, Sorrow said:

Sadly, I am afraid "no one likes Slaanesh" will be GW conclusion.

You would hope a multibillion pound company would have proper market research... 

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

[azdimy]

Is there any room for chaos warriors and chaos marauders in a Slaanesh list now that they lost the batteline keyword under our allegiance? I m at a loss when I see that to make a list I need like 4 new kits and the list won t be good anyway. This makes me really unlikely to play Slaanesh in the foreseeable future as I am a pretty slow painter. I will just slowly work towards it while I play another army I already own. Who knows, by the time I have 3 good size battleline units the army may be decent?

[Benkei]

For that to happen we would need yet another HoS time, and I don't see that happening 

[Lurynsar]

So I’ve been able to play 3 games as Hedonites so far with the new rules, and the new points (perks to owning a store. I play games all the time)

My list is as follows 

Spoiler

 

Hedonites of Slaanesh

Lurid Haze (Invaders Host)

 

Battle Regiment 

Commander / Sub-Commanders

Lord of Pain

-General

—Feverish Anticipation (Command Trait)

—Oil of Exultation (Artefact)

Shardspeaker 150

-General

—Dark Delusions (Spell)

Sigvald, the Magnificent 265 

-General

Troops

10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 370

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers 160

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers 160

5 Slickblade Seekers 230

5 Slickblade Seekers 230

 

No Battalion

11 Blissbarb Archers 180

 

Endless Spells

Wheels of Excruciation 100

2000 Points

 

 

 

I won’t do full battle reports, as I don’t have 100% of the details written down, but I’m planning to document my experiences and tournaments in 3rd so those may come. Just going to note the footnotes and what I learnt. 

My first game was against Soulblight using several Vampire Heroes in the Vyrkos Dynasty and then 40 Deadwalkers, 2x20 Skeletons, 10 Dire Wolves, 20 Grave Guard, a Corpse Cart and an endless spell. 

Second game was also against a Soulblight army but using the named Vampire on Dragon, another normal Vampire Lord on Dragon, 5 units of Blood Knights and a unit of Vargheists. 

Third game was against Kharadron Overlords. Using multiple ships, Thunderers, some ballon boys. The standard affair really. 

So initial thoughts that were positive

1) 10 Twinsouls is a lot of points, and even more when protecting/escorting a Shardspeaker. But they are disgusting. With 2” melee range I had no troubles bringing them to bear time and time again and they did WORK. Honestly they might be my MVPs in every game. They’re hard to kill, kill well and when sitting with a Shardspeaker just become amazing. However against more ranged savvy opponents the lack of protection for the Shardspeaker will suck. 

2) Depravity Points are stupid powerful. Like really powerful. MSU is a thing and I was able to generate 12 points at least 3 times in each game to bring in some serious reinforcements. And while a Keeper is hands down an amazing choice, 30 Daemonettes helped out a ton too. I foresee those being my go to’s when summoning, and relying on 20 Daemonettes if I cannot reach 12. 

3) Endless Spells are fun. Activating each Hero phase made them super useful, and a true aspect of the game. I will 100% be trying these more and the Wheels did a lot of work. So I was very happy with them. 

4) Painbringers may be one of the best roadblocks in the game. They just wouldn’t die. They took shots, they took charges, they even took a Zombie Dragon to the face. They just don’t like dying at all. They’re not doing much (no shocker there). But to control an objective or area; they’re insanely solid. 

5) Blissbarb Archers do indeed love Unleash Hell. Sitting in the mid backfield controlling an objective made the enemy have to come to them and it was pretty cool. Though to be honest they were the second weakest part of the list (see below). 

6) My list (and I suspect Slaanesh as a whole) are amazing with the single drop Battalion. My entire list was 2 Drops (my Sylvaneth are 6 and use the same Battlaion) so I went first every game with ease. I like it, a lot.

now onto the negatives. 

1) I hate that heroes didn’t get the “40K” Look Out Sir rules. -1 is nothing for a good ranged unit/army to deal with especially with the caps. These make heroes like the Shardspeaker still easy to pick out. I don’t like it. It’s a shame as they have a fair, solid rule in their other flagship game and they didn’t use it. 

2) Slickblades are way too many points. They did some work, they were even good at times. But playing against Blood Knights at 175 for 5 was just so polarizing. They’re everything I want and they’re cheaper. It’s just a true shame as the models are stunning. Unless playtests change my mind they’ll be replaced with Blissbarb Seekers or even Hellstriders going forward. I also feel Twinsouls were a little too costly, but they made up for it. I don’t think 160 for Painbringers was bad at all. They did what I wanted them to for a “fair” price.

3) A lack of generic or “cheap” monsters SUCK. While Zombie Dragons weren’t cheap the monster abilities were amazing. I’m also testing my Sylvaneth and Treelords at 190 with those rules are amazing. Our Monsters went up greatly in points, and even summoning them in doesn’t make up for it. We need a nice 200-250 point giant Slaangor or something to give us access to these lovely new rules and allow us to play them. We are losing out, they’re really good. 

4) Relying on summoning for board control is good in theory, and bad in practice. While I’ve been able to take the board with 1 or 2 units of 20/30 Daemonettes; it’s going to be all to easy to be unable to do that on a crucial turn and fall flat quick. Board Control is a super important element, and we lack it. It sucks. 

All in all I think we are okay. I know the knee ****** reaction is we are trash tier, and bad. We aren’t. I don’t think we will be meta toppers, or anything. But get some games in and you’ll see it’s not all doom and gloom. That said some points costs are awful and utterly shameful, and honestly looking at other books Allegiance Subfactions, artefacts and Command Abilities makes me weep. We have so little in the way of options, and even less in the way of good options. I don’t see the point in going after extra Enchantments for the most part for us at all. Not worth the either high price for Heroes or the poor, cheaper choices. But that’s just me. 

As to what I’d change? My first thought is swap out Sigvald for Dexcessa with a change in Endless Spells for points. I think Sigvald is fine, good even. But I truly think Dexcessa is a beast with the new hero abilities. And I am excited to get her on the table (and likely regret not having Sigvald haha)

and the other change would be as I said before, Slickblades for some mixture of Blissbarb Seekers and/or Hellstriders. Hellstriders seem solid at their points, and Blissbarb Seekers could give me a ranged element allowing me to drop the Blissbarb Archers (my second worst unit I felt) and maintain some shooting options. However I will need to test a combination of them all to see where I stand.

So in my experience and opinion the sky isn’t falling, and we will be okay. We just need to hope for a future adjustment to a few units points wise (and a whole new Warscroll for those damned Slaangors) and maybe a Monster or two in a playable point cost and we really could be up there with the best. Time will tell, but I do implore you to try out some games. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Lurynsar

[MothmanDraws]

24 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Is there any room for chaos warriors and chaos marauders in a Slaanesh list now that they lost the batteline keyword under our allegiance? I m at a loss when I see that to make a list I need like 4 new kits and the list won t be good anyway. This makes me really unlikely to play Slaanesh in the foreseeable future as I am a pretty slow painter. I will just slowly work towards it while I play another army I already own. Who knows, by the time I have 3 good size battleline units the army may be decent?

Honestly no I dont think so, even our cheapest battle line is costing us 680 (masque+viceleader+3xhellstriders) we are better off spending rest on either upgrading those to our own battle line options or spending rest on semi useful stuff. as you are looking at 880+ points just bringing in 10 warriors of chaos or block of marauders after that. 

[pnkdth]

5 minutes ago, Lurynsar said:

So I’ve been able to play 3 games as Hedonites so far with the new rules, and the new points (perks to owning a store. I play games all the time)

My list is as follows 

[spoiler] 

Hedonites of Slaanesh

Lurid Haze (Invaders Host)

 

Battle Regiment 

Commander / Sub-Commanders

Lord of Pain

-General

—Feverish Anticipation (Command Trait)

—Oil of Exultation (Artefact)

Shardspeaker 150

-General

—Dark Delusions (Spell)

Sigvald, the Magnificent 265 

-General

Troops

10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 370

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers 160

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers 160

5 Slickblade Seekers 230

5 Slickblade Seekers 230

 

No Battalion

11 Blissbarb Archers 180

 

Endless Spells

Wheels of Excruciation 100

2000 Points [/spoiler]

 

I won’t do full battle reports, as I don’t have 100% of the details written down, but I’m planning to document my experiences and tournaments in 3rd so those may come. Just going to note the footnotes and what I learnt. 

My first game was against Soulblight using several Vampire Heroes in the Vyrkos Dynasty and then 40 Deadwalkers, 2x20 Skeletons, 10 Dire Wolves, Corpse Cart and an endless spell. 

Second game was also against a Soulblight army but using the named Vampire on Dragon, another normal Vampire Lord on Dragon, 5 units of Blood Knights and a unit of Vargheists. 

Third game was against Kharadron Overlords. Using multiple ships, Thunderers, some ballon boys. The standard affair really. 

So initial thoughts that were positive

1) 10 Twinsouls is a lot of points, and even more when protecting/escorting a Shardspeaker. But they are disgusting. With 2” melee range I had no troubles bringing them to bear time and time again and they did WORK. Honestly they might be my MVPs in every game. They’re hard to kill, kill well and when sitting with a Shardspeaker just become amazing. However against more ranged savvy opponents the lack of protection for the Shardspeaker will suck. 

2) Depravity Points are stupid powerful. Like really powerful. MSU is a thing and I was able to generate 12 points at least 3 times in each game to bring in some serious reinforcements. And while a Keeper is hands down an amazing choice, 30 Daemonettes helped out a ton too. I foresee those being my go to’s when summoning, and relying on 20 Daemonettes if I cannot reach 12. 

3) Endless Spells are fun. Activating each Hero phase made them super useful, and a true aspect of the game. I will 100% be trying these more and the Wheels did a lot of work. So I was very happy with them. 

4) Painbringers may be one of the best roadblocks in the game. They just wouldn’t die. They took shots, they took charges, they even took a Zombie Dragon to the face. They just don’t like dying at all. They’re not doing much (no shocker there). But to control an objective or area; they’re insanely solid. 

5) Blissbarb Archers do indeed love Unleash Hell. Sitting in the mid backfield controlling an objective made the enemy have to come to them and it was pretty cool. Though to be honest they were the second weakest part of the list (see below). 

6) My list (and I suspect Slaanesh as a whole) are amazing with the single drop Battalion. My entire list was 2 Drops (my Sylvaneth are 6 and use the same Battlaion) so I went first every game with ease. I like it, a lot.

now onto the negatives. 

1) I hate that heroes didn’t get the “40K” Look Out Sir rules. -1 is nothing for a good ranged unit/army to deal with especially with the caps. These make heroes like the Shardspeaker still easy to pick out. I don’t like it. It’s a shame as they have a fair, solid rule in their other flagship game and they didn’t use it. 

2) Slickblades are way too many points. They did some work, they were even good at times. But playing against Blood Knights at 175 for 5 was just so polarizing. They’re everything I want and they’re cheaper. It’s just a true shame as the models are stunning. Unless playtests change my mind they’ll be replaced with Blissbarb Seekers or even Hellstriders going forward. I also feel Twinsouls were a little too costly, but they made up for it. I don’t think 160 for Painbringers was bad at all. They did what I wanted them to for a “fair” price.

3) A lack of generic or “cheap” monsters SUCK. While Zombie Dragons weren’t cheap the monster abilities were amazing. I’m also testing my Sylvaneth and Treelords at 190 with those rules are amazing. Our Monsters went up greatly in points, and even summoning them in doesn’t make up for it. We need a nice 200-250 point giant Slaangor or something to give us access to these lovely new rules and allow us to play them. We are losing out, they’re really good. 

4) Relying on summoning for board control is good in theory, and bad in practice. While I’ve been able to take the board with 1 or 2 units of 20/30 Daemonettes; it’s going to be all to easy to be unable to do that on a crucial turn and fall flat quick. Board Control is a super important element, and we lack it. It sucks. 

All in all I think we are okay. I know the knee ****** reaction is we are trash tier, and bad. We aren’t. I don’t think we will be meta toppers, or anything. But get some games in and you’ll see it’s not all doom and gloom. That said some points costs are awful and utterly shameful, and honestly looking at other books Allegiance Subfactions, artefacts and Command Abilities makes me weep. We have so little in the way of options, and even less in the way of good options. I don’t see the point in going after extra Enchantments for the most part for us at all. Not worth the either high price for Heroes or the poor, cheaper choices. But that’s just me. 

As to what I’d change? My first thought is swap out Sigvald for Dexcessa with a change in Endless Spells for points. I think Sigvald is fine, good even. But I truly think Dexcessa is a beast with the new hero abilities. And I am excited to get her on the table (and likely regret not having Sigvald haha)

and the other change would be as I said before, Slickblades for some mixture of Blissbarb Seekers and/or Hellstriders. Hellstriders seem solid at their points, and Blissbarb Seekers could give me a ranged element allowing me to drop the Blissbarb Archers (my second worst unit I felt) and maintain some shooting options. However I will need to test a combination of them all to see where I stand.

So in my experience and opinion the sky isn’t falling, and we will be okay. We just need to hope for a future adjustment to a few units points wise (and a whole new Warscroll for those damned Slaangors) and maybe a Monster or two in a playable point cost and we really could be up there with the best. Time will tell, but I do implore you to try out some games. 

Big thanks for the write-up and, most of all, sharing actionable insights backed by play-testing before condemning the army as trash tier.

I hadn't even considered Blissbarb Seekers yet and Hellstriders are looking pretty amazing for their points.

It is important to raise the issues (as it ain't all sunshine and roses) but similarly, I noticed other armies settling in with their new points cost. Same as you I pretty much consider many of the characters are recyclable/expendable (or as redundancy) depending of what you need summoned. I also wonder if Fiends might be a decent option to have a crack at enemy monsters (-1 to hit, extra damage).

Anyways, glad to see more data coming, thanks!

[Benkei]

2 hours ago, Lurynsar said:

So I’ve been able to play 3 games as Hedonites so far with the new rules, and the new points (perks to owning a store. I play games all the time)

My list is as follows 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Hedonites of Slaanesh

Lurid Haze (Invaders Host)

 

Battle Regiment 

Commander / Sub-Commanders

Lord of Pain

-General

—Feverish Anticipation (Command Trait)

—Oil of Exultation (Artefact)

Shardspeaker 150

-General

—Dark Delusions (Spell)

Sigvald, the Magnificent 265 

-General

Troops

10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 370

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers 160

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers 160

5 Slickblade Seekers 230

5 Slickblade Seekers 230

 

No Battalion

11 Blissbarb Archers 180

 

Endless Spells

Wheels of Excruciation 100

2000 Points

 

 

 

I won’t do full battle reports, as I don’t have 100% of the details written down, but I’m planning to document my experiences and tournaments in 3rd so those may come. Just going to note the footnotes and what I learnt. 

My first game was against Soulblight using several Vampire Heroes in the Vyrkos Dynasty and then 40 Deadwalkers, 2x20 Skeletons, 10 Dire Wolves, 20 Grave Guard, a Corpse Cart and an endless spell. 

Second game was also against a Soulblight army but using the named Vampire on Dragon, another normal Vampire Lord on Dragon, 5 units of Blood Knights and a unit of Vargheists. 

Third game was against Kharadron Overlords. Using multiple ships, Thunderers, some ballon boys. The standard affair really. 

So initial thoughts that were positive

1) 10 Twinsouls is a lot of points, and even more when protecting/escorting a Shardspeaker. But they are disgusting. With 2” melee range I had no troubles bringing them to bear time and time again and they did WORK. Honestly they might be my MVPs in every game. They’re hard to kill, kill well and when sitting with a Shardspeaker just become amazing. However against more ranged savvy opponents the lack of protection for the Shardspeaker will suck. 

2) Depravity Points are stupid powerful. Like really powerful. MSU is a thing and I was able to generate 12 points at least 3 times in each game to bring in some serious reinforcements. And while a Keeper is hands down an amazing choice, 30 Daemonettes helped out a ton too. I foresee those being my go to’s when summoning, and relying on 20 Daemonettes if I cannot reach 12. 

3) Endless Spells are fun. Activating each Hero phase made them super useful, and a true aspect of the game. I will 100% be trying these more and the Wheels did a lot of work. So I was very happy with them. 

4) Painbringers may be one of the best roadblocks in the game. They just wouldn’t die. They took shots, they took charges, they even took a Zombie Dragon to the face. They just don’t like dying at all. They’re not doing much (no shocker there). But to control an objective or area; they’re insanely solid. 

5) Blissbarb Archers do indeed love Unleash Hell. Sitting in the mid backfield controlling an objective made the enemy have to come to them and it was pretty cool. Though to be honest they were the second weakest part of the list (see below). 

6) My list (and I suspect Slaanesh as a whole) are amazing with the single drop Battalion. My entire list was 2 Drops (my Sylvaneth are 6 and use the same Battlaion) so I went first every game with ease. I like it, a lot.

now onto the negatives. 

1) I hate that heroes didn’t get the “40K” Look Out Sir rules. -1 is nothing for a good ranged unit/army to deal with especially with the caps. These make heroes like the Shardspeaker still easy to pick out. I don’t like it. It’s a shame as they have a fair, solid rule in their other flagship game and they didn’t use it. 

2) Slickblades are way too many points. They did some work, they were even good at times. But playing against Blood Knights at 175 for 5 was just so polarizing. They’re everything I want and they’re cheaper. It’s just a true shame as the models are stunning. Unless playtests change my mind they’ll be replaced with Blissbarb Seekers or even Hellstriders going forward. I also feel Twinsouls were a little too costly, but they made up for it. I don’t think 160 for Painbringers was bad at all. They did what I wanted them to for a “fair” price.

3) A lack of generic or “cheap” monsters SUCK. While Zombie Dragons weren’t cheap the monster abilities were amazing. I’m also testing my Sylvaneth and Treelords at 190 with those rules are amazing. Our Monsters went up greatly in points, and even summoning them in doesn’t make up for it. We need a nice 200-250 point giant Slaangor or something to give us access to these lovely new rules and allow us to play them. We are losing out, they’re really good. 

4) Relying on summoning for board control is good in theory, and bad in practice. While I’ve been able to take the board with 1 or 2 units of 20/30 Daemonettes; it’s going to be all to easy to be unable to do that on a crucial turn and fall flat quick. Board Control is a super important element, and we lack it. It sucks. 

All in all I think we are okay. I know the knee ****** reaction is we are trash tier, and bad. We aren’t. I don’t think we will be meta toppers, or anything. But get some games in and you’ll see it’s not all doom and gloom. That said some points costs are awful and utterly shameful, and honestly looking at other books Allegiance Subfactions, artefacts and Command Abilities makes me weep. We have so little in the way of options, and even less in the way of good options. I don’t see the point in going after extra Enchantments for the most part for us at all. Not worth the either high price for Heroes or the poor, cheaper choices. But that’s just me. 

As to what I’d change? My first thought is swap out Sigvald for Dexcessa with a change in Endless Spells for points. I think Sigvald is fine, good even. But I truly think Dexcessa is a beast with the new hero abilities. And I am excited to get her on the table (and likely regret not having Sigvald haha)

and the other change would be as I said before, Slickblades for some mixture of Blissbarb Seekers and/or Hellstriders. Hellstriders seem solid at their points, and Blissbarb Seekers could give me a ranged element allowing me to drop the Blissbarb Archers (my second worst unit I felt) and maintain some shooting options. However I will need to test a combination of them all to see where I stand.

So in my experience and opinion the sky isn’t falling, and we will be okay. We just need to hope for a future adjustment to a few units points wise (and a whole new Warscroll for those damned Slaangors) and maybe a Monster or two in a playable point cost and we really could be up there with the best. Time will tell, but I do implore you to try out some games. 

Even while I like the positive outlook, the fact that you didn't play any of the units that got the big price hikes (because they are nigh unplayable now) proves we are not okay. The huge point increase to Daemonettes and KoS (and to the Epitome) means they are relegated to summons now and we are encouraged to buy mortals to fill the battleline and I can't help but wonder if mortal kits didn't sell as well as they wanted (because, you know, dull rules) and they already sold as many KoS kits as they wanted. 

[Nagashfan]

2 hours ago, Lurynsar said:

So I’ve been able to play 3 games as Hedonites so far with the new rules, and the new points (perks to owning a store. I play games all the time)

My list is as follows 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Hedonites of Slaanesh

Lurid Haze (Invaders Host)

 

Battle Regiment 

Commander / Sub-Commanders

Lord of Pain

-General

—Feverish Anticipation (Command Trait)

—Oil of Exultation (Artefact)

Shardspeaker 150

-General

—Dark Delusions (Spell)

Sigvald, the Magnificent 265 

-General

Troops

10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 370

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers 160

5 Myrmidesh Painbringers 160

5 Slickblade Seekers 230

5 Slickblade Seekers 230

 

No Battalion

11 Blissbarb Archers 180

 

Endless Spells

Wheels of Excruciation 100

2000 Points

 

 

 

I won’t do full battle reports, as I don’t have 100% of the details written down, but I’m planning to document my experiences and tournaments in 3rd so those may come. Just going to note the footnotes and what I learnt. 

My first game was against Soulblight using several Vampire Heroes in the Vyrkos Dynasty and then 40 Deadwalkers, 2x20 Skeletons, 10 Dire Wolves, 20 Grave Guard, a Corpse Cart and an endless spell. 

Second game was also against a Soulblight army but using the named Vampire on Dragon, another normal Vampire Lord on Dragon, 5 units of Blood Knights and a unit of Vargheists. 

Third game was against Kharadron Overlords. Using multiple ships, Thunderers, some ballon boys. The standard affair really. 

So initial thoughts that were positive

1) 10 Twinsouls is a lot of points, and even more when protecting/escorting a Shardspeaker. But they are disgusting. With 2” melee range I had no troubles bringing them to bear time and time again and they did WORK. Honestly they might be my MVPs in every game. They’re hard to kill, kill well and when sitting with a Shardspeaker just become amazing. However against more ranged savvy opponents the lack of protection for the Shardspeaker will suck. 

2) Depravity Points are stupid powerful. Like really powerful. MSU is a thing and I was able to generate 12 points at least 3 times in each game to bring in some serious reinforcements. And while a Keeper is hands down an amazing choice, 30 Daemonettes helped out a ton too. I foresee those being my go to’s when summoning, and relying on 20 Daemonettes if I cannot reach 12. 

3) Endless Spells are fun. Activating each Hero phase made them super useful, and a true aspect of the game. I will 100% be trying these more and the Wheels did a lot of work. So I was very happy with them. 

4) Painbringers may be one of the best roadblocks in the game. They just wouldn’t die. They took shots, they took charges, they even took a Zombie Dragon to the face. They just don’t like dying at all. They’re not doing much (no shocker there). But to control an objective or area; they’re insanely solid. 

5) Blissbarb Archers do indeed love Unleash Hell. Sitting in the mid backfield controlling an objective made the enemy have to come to them and it was pretty cool. Though to be honest they were the second weakest part of the list (see below). 

6) My list (and I suspect Slaanesh as a whole) are amazing with the single drop Battalion. My entire list was 2 Drops (my Sylvaneth are 6 and use the same Battlaion) so I went first every game with ease. I like it, a lot.

now onto the negatives. 

1) I hate that heroes didn’t get the “40K” Look Out Sir rules. -1 is nothing for a good ranged unit/army to deal with especially with the caps. These make heroes like the Shardspeaker still easy to pick out. I don’t like it. It’s a shame as they have a fair, solid rule in their other flagship game and they didn’t use it. 

2) Slickblades are way too many points. They did some work, they were even good at times. But playing against Blood Knights at 175 for 5 was just so polarizing. They’re everything I want and they’re cheaper. It’s just a true shame as the models are stunning. Unless playtests change my mind they’ll be replaced with Blissbarb Seekers or even Hellstriders going forward. I also feel Twinsouls were a little too costly, but they made up for it. I don’t think 160 for Painbringers was bad at all. They did what I wanted them to for a “fair” price.

3) A lack of generic or “cheap” monsters SUCK. While Zombie Dragons weren’t cheap the monster abilities were amazing. I’m also testing my Sylvaneth and Treelords at 190 with those rules are amazing. Our Monsters went up greatly in points, and even summoning them in doesn’t make up for it. We need a nice 200-250 point giant Slaangor or something to give us access to these lovely new rules and allow us to play them. We are losing out, they’re really good. 

4) Relying on summoning for board control is good in theory, and bad in practice. While I’ve been able to take the board with 1 or 2 units of 20/30 Daemonettes; it’s going to be all to easy to be unable to do that on a crucial turn and fall flat quick. Board Control is a super important element, and we lack it. It sucks. 

All in all I think we are okay. I know the knee ****** reaction is we are trash tier, and bad. We aren’t. I don’t think we will be meta toppers, or anything. But get some games in and you’ll see it’s not all doom and gloom. That said some points costs are awful and utterly shameful, and honestly looking at other books Allegiance Subfactions, artefacts and Command Abilities makes me weep. We have so little in the way of options, and even less in the way of good options. I don’t see the point in going after extra Enchantments for the most part for us at all. Not worth the either high price for Heroes or the poor, cheaper choices. But that’s just me. 

As to what I’d change? My first thought is swap out Sigvald for Dexcessa with a change in Endless Spells for points. I think Sigvald is fine, good even. But I truly think Dexcessa is a beast with the new hero abilities. And I am excited to get her on the table (and likely regret not having Sigvald haha)

and the other change would be as I said before, Slickblades for some mixture of Blissbarb Seekers and/or Hellstriders. Hellstriders seem solid at their points, and Blissbarb Seekers could give me a ranged element allowing me to drop the Blissbarb Archers (my second worst unit I felt) and maintain some shooting options. However I will need to test a combination of them all to see where I stand.

So in my experience and opinion the sky isn’t falling, and we will be okay. We just need to hope for a future adjustment to a few units points wise (and a whole new Warscroll for those damned Slaangors) and maybe a Monster or two in a playable point cost and we really could be up there with the best. Time will tell, but I do implore you to try out some games. 

Thanks dude that’s encouraging! Maybe a mutalith vortex beast ally might be a decent cheap monster, they have a good chance at ranged mortals in the hero phase…. I donno I got one so I’ll try it out and let ya know

[Feorag]

I normally rate goonhammer quite highly but the amount of errors is frustrating.

[Lurynsar]

20 minutes ago, Benkei said:

Even while I like the positive outlook, the fact that you didn't play any of the units that got the big price hikes (because they are nigh unplayable now) proves we are not okay. The huge point increase to Daemonettes and KoS (and to the Epitome) means they are relegated to summons now and we are encouraged to buy mortals to fill the battleline and I can't help but wonder if mortal kits didn't sell as well as they wanted (because, you know, dull rules) and they already sold as many KoS kits as they wanted. 

In my personal case that was never an option. I put away my Hedonites during the first book because I was bored of playing Daemons (I also have them for 40K) so my intention was always to play 100% (or close to) Mortals.

So Keepers and Daemonettes and the like were always being relegated to summoning for me in 2nd edition too upon the books release. So for me it’s just taking my play style/list building to the new edition. As always your mileage may vary. 

I also didn’t use Chaos Warriors or Marauders as Battleline either, so again my lists are less “hurt” by this. My post was simply to show that I’ve been able to play some games and do alright. Obviously if you played different styles of lists you’ll have different experiences. But list adaptation is always a thing with new editions and books sadly, it’s been a rarity I’ve been able to keep a list between editions or new codices/battletomes in my 20 years of GW games.

Hopefully everyone will be able to adapt as we go forward, as I believe the army has some legs. Don’t get me wrong it’s not all good, it’s just also not all bad. 
 

Edited in to reply

Quote

Thanks dude that’s encouraging! Maybe a mutalith vortex beast ally might be a decent cheap monster, they have a good chance at ranged mortals in the hero phase…. I donno I got one so I’ll try it out and let ya know

Yeah its not all sunshine, but I have hope we can do something. Also good call on the Mutalith. I’ve always been such a faction “purist” to Slaanesh that I rarely look at Allies for them. I’ll have to see what Monster allies exist for us to try, because they are a lot of fun ruleswise. Thanks for the ideas.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Lurynsar

[pnkdth]

The Fomoroid Crusher is another mini-monster. Fits the profile for a hulking Slaangor (dealing out MWs and whirlwind of destruction).

With the hike to Slickblades, I think Chaos Knights are a potential stand in unit. Looking at Varanguard they could be a next-level Slickblade because when equipped with Daemonforge weapons they do the MW thing on 6s. Like an upscaled Paingbringer knight. 

The best news for me though is how viable both Twinsouls/Painbringers are turning out to be. Hellstriders and Seekers are way more interesting now but I'm definitely going to look at Blissbarb Seekers too (especially in LoP lists with Twinsoul/painbringer battleline).

Generally speaking, my focus is going to be generating DPs to bring in Keepers/Daemonettes. I still think the Epitome got some play since it is still a 2 cast wizard with anti-miscast through re-rolls (and those endless spells are juicy...). Infernal Rapturess is probably making it into all my lists now cause DP + chip-damage + magic disruption and a deny (with a +1). 

Apologies for the grating optimism. 

[Nagashfan]

57 minutes ago, pnkdth said:

The Fomoroid Crusher is another mini-monster. Fits the profile for a hulking Slaangor (dealing out MWs and whirlwind of destruction).

With the hike to Slickblades, I think Chaos Knights are a potential stand in unit. Looking at Varanguard they could be a next-level Slickblade because when equipped with Daemonforge weapons they do the MW thing on 6s. Like an upscaled Paingbringer knight. 

The best news for me though is how viable both Twinsouls/Painbringers are turning out to be. Hellstriders and Seekers are way more interesting now but I'm definitely going to look at Blissbarb Seekers too (especially in LoP lists with Twinsoul/painbringer battleline).

Generally speaking, my focus is going to be generating DPs to bring in Keepers/Daemonettes. I still think the Epitome got some play since it is still a 2 cast wizard with anti-miscast through re-rolls (and those endless spells are juicy...). Infernal Rapturess is probably making it into all my lists now cause DP + chip-damage + magic disruption and a deny (with a +1). 

Apologies for the grating optimism. 

Also that sphinx thing -2 bravery plus Archaon -2 could be fun and they can make units fight last also it’s old locus all over again!

[Nagashfan]

In fact mutalith vortex 175, fomorid crusher 110 and mindstealer Sphinx 95 = 380 in allies and fit that alpha beast battalion 🤷🏼‍♂️

[LeonBox]

2 hours ago, Feorag said:

I normally rate goonhammer quite highly but the amount of errors is frustrating.

Why on earth did he think Enrapturesses were going up 90 points, let alone the host of other mistakes he made? 

[Lurynsar]

15 minutes ago, Nagashfan said:

In fact mutalith vortex 175, fomorid crusher 110 and mindstealer Sphinx 95 = 380 in allies and fit that alpha beast battalion 🤷🏼‍♂️

Actually looking at the Slaves Monster options a Fomoroid isn’t a bad choice, and fairly well priced. I may have to draft a list to include a couple. It would likely increase my current drops by maybe 1, depending on how it sorted out. But that could be worth it. I truly found Monstrous Rampages to be a big ability, so access to them on a decent body at a fair point cost might be big. 

It also sort of reinforces my thought that list building in 3rd is going to be very different. This is something I have never done, or considered, and it seems to be the same for most of the discussion I’ve seen here. 

I’m glad to see some awesome ideas and choices being thrown against the wall. They might now all stick, but the talk is certainly getting ideas going for me. 

Thanks everyone. 

[Fyrenn]

Question...  i'm not sure if this is worded exactly the same as 2.0 or not.  But I noticed this about paired weapons in the 3.0 core roles (pg 14):

"Some models are armed with two of the same weapon (often referred to as paired weapons). When this is the case, the Attacks characteristic for the weapon will already take the extra weapon into account, or the model will have an ability to represent the model dual-wielding"

I'm that guy who was always asking about slaangors, so i'm just wondering if this is something that is worded the same or not as before; it seems that Slaangors do not adequately fit the description from the book.  IE; they do not have an ability to represent they are duel wielding, yet the attack characteristics do not indicate dual wielding either (because the unit champion has it (singular) and uses the same attack profile.

Might be pointless, but I was wondering if that's something worth sending to the rules people for clarification?  Or if the assumption is ... yeah, the attack profile represents dual wielding. the champion is just extra awesome and fast and attacks in a whirlwind as if he had two blades in one hand!