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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion


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10 hours ago, Yoid said:

If im not mistaken these guys cost 130pts, the pile in shenanigans can be done all the time in certain subfaction (they also got +1 attack with the bows if within 3 of an enemy unit in the same subfaction, so more attacks in close combat) and got -2 rend. They can pile in out of combat (can ignore the pile in to the closest model) so they can freely disengage an enemy that charge them, since LRL activate two units every time, you can disengage two of these units as your first counter-activation, making them a total pain to remove from the table.

Yes you are mistaken. No subfaction change the pile in shenaningans. And they dont get +1 attack with the bows. They get +1 attack with missile weapons, which don't work with the bow in "melee weapons" form. It's honestly the worst subfaction bonus, since you need to survive 2 melee fight to use the +1 atk on missile weapons. They can only pile out of combat if nobody touch their base or they have charged, or they are wholly within a hero in the batallion. What the points of charging 2 units and disengage them both the same turn without attacking? It's fun theory shenanigans but in real games, they are really not that good. NOTHING stop you from just charging them and kill them. 130pts for 10 wounds is not cheap at all.

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Remember that they also have Rend -1 and do mortal wounds on 6s to-wound in addition to normal damage.  The initial reaction here and elsewhere (moreso elsewhere) isn't surprising to me in the sl

Finished the Lord of Pain now

I shared my Hedonites in the painting thread but I saw people were sharing them here too, so I hope it's okay for me to give you all some photos of the things i've painted since March. I think th

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2 hours ago, Saodexan said:

Yes you are mistaken. No subfaction change the pile in shenaningans. And they dont get +1 attack with the bows. They get +1 attack with missile weapons, which don't work with the bow in "melee weapons" form. It's honestly the worst subfaction bonus, since you need to survive 2 melee fight to use the +1 atk on missile weapons. They can only pile out of combat if nobody touch their base or they have charged, or they are wholly within a hero in the batallion. What the points of charging 2 units and disengage them both the same turn without attacking? It's fun theory shenanigans but in real games, they are really not that good. NOTHING stop you from just charging them and kill them. 130pts for 10 wounds is not cheap at all.

That is really interesting. Yeah i started writing "If im not mistaken" because i cannot find the full rules and was talking out of memory from different videos, so was self-aware of maybe being wrong. Disengaging is not for your turn when you charge. The theory is that you got lets say 3 units of these guys. You go to shooting range and shoot, the enemy charge you, one of your units is destroyed but the other two disengage. You shoot again in your turn, the enemy charge you again, one of your units is destroyed but the other disengage. The last unit shoot. I don't know if you can fit 5 in the battallion, but if you do so you guarantee them surviving till the last round. This is pobably useless in practice as meta armies dosn't need to charge you to kill you, but is still interesting. Didn't know that the good profile of the bows was considered mele, that change a lot. 130pts for 10 wounds is not cheap  unless you are Slaanesh after all, then you pay 140, 150 or even 170 for that kind of wounds (more if we start going into chariots).

Remember that people is not complaining about LRL new release being too powerful, they are complaining about it being a mockery for Slaanesh, and i can totally see it. These guys compare more to Hellstriders than Blissbarb Seekers due to their point cost and close combat speciallity. Sure LRL got way more OP things that make these guys unplayable, and that make things even worst, not better.

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5 hours ago, Yoid said:

Remember that people is not complaining about LRL new release being too powerful, they are complaining about it being a mockery for Slaanesh, and i can totally see it. These guys compare more to Hellstriders than Blissbarb Seekers due to their point cost and close combat speciallity. Sure LRL got way more OP things that make these guys unplayable, and that make things even worst, not better.

I wouldnt play the Kangaroo Cav if they were in Slaanesh either. They are way worse than any of the exalted seeker variations. They are also much more comparable to  blissbarb seekers since they fill the exact same role. If you want a better comparison points wise then just compare 7 roos to 5 blissbarbs. Most of the LRL stuff seem crazy at first and then you play test it and it turns out that its pretty mediocre in practice. 

The only thing worthy of envy in the new LRL release is the slew of interesting (but mostly weak) special abilities that all units got. Pretty much everything that was released got something that made them unique. BTs got blinding shot, kangaroos got unique movement shenanigans, loremasters got some crazy objective play, the twins got some unique damage per turn scaling and teleport stuff, windmage got a spell that triggers after the movement phase, Sevireth bascially have more special rules by himself than the entire Slaanesh faction. The only units that had recycled or kind of bland abilities was the swordmasters and BSB.

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14 hours ago, pnkdth said:

Yeah, Yoid alluded to it earlier too. Abilities which is a guaranteed, always-on, or player choice in other armies isn't for HoS. We have to work around it whereas they don't. I kind of like this kind of design but then it needs to be consistent and come with more options like more fleshed out host rules, and so on. I still like the book though but it does have some glaring flows. Thankfully most of them can be sorted with point reductions, which would alleviate the randomness and over-costed units.

For sure, I think if our host options had stuff like "all friendly daemon heroes gain +1 to Locus of Diversion rolls" then it would at least make it less frustrating. As it stands, frequently playing LRL and IDK with their guaranteed re-rolls from buff heroes is extremely annoying given how frequently I fail Locus/Horrible Fascination rolls. 

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1 hour ago, pnkdth said:

The way I'm approaching it is how to create kill zones to effectively make all that movement, if not useless, not as impactful. Baiting is another tool. I believe Sevireth is 300 points too, so if we can reduce his impact then that's a sizeable chunk of points not making back its value. How can we turn all these rules against them? 

One potential tool is the Mesmerizing Mirror, which can potentially 2d3 mortal wounds in the LRL player's turn, and an additional 1d3 in our turn, as the shooting phase move is a "normal move", which the mirror specifically procs its effects off. The challenge with the mirror is twofold however, with the easy bonuses to unbind just casting it in the first place will be a problem, and to place it strategically enough to affect both movements will difficult at best.

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3 hours ago, umpac said:

I wouldnt play the Kangaroo Cav if they were in Slaanesh either. They are way worse than any of the exalted seeker variations. They are also much more comparable to  blissbarb seekers since they fill the exact same role. If you want a better comparison points wise then just compare 7 roos to 5 blissbarbs. Most of the LRL stuff seem crazy at first and then you play test it and it turns out that its pretty mediocre in practice. 

The only thing worthy of envy in the new LRL release is the slew of interesting (but mostly weak) special abilities that all units got. Pretty much everything that was released got something that made them unique. BTs got blinding shot, kangaroos got unique movement shenanigans, loremasters got some crazy objective play, the twins got some unique damage per turn scaling and teleport stuff, windmage got a spell that triggers after the movement phase, Sevireth bascially have more special rules by himself than the entire Slaanesh faction. The only units that had recycled or kind of bland abilities was the swordmasters and BSB.

Our exalted seekers are strong indeed, i often defend them as being the powerful correctly pointed thing in our army (along with Glutos). The sad thing is when you try and compare them to Hellstriders, regular Seekers, regular Chariots, Paibringers or Twinsouls (I see some people defending Twinsouls but im not so sure about them, i still think Slickblades outshadow them by performing way better)

I think there is plenty of things to envy in other armies, starting with efficiency per point cost. That can be easily fixed in the future anyway. The unreliability of Locus and Shardspeaker is a serious matter tho. Something that certainly would be easier to gulp if the heroes were cheaper.

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4 minutes ago, Yoid said:

Our exalted seekers are strong indeed, i often defend them as being the powerful correctly pointed thing in our army (along with Glutos). The sad thing is when you try and compare them to Hellstriders, regular Seekers, regular Chariots, Paibringers or Twinsouls (I see some people defending Twinsouls but im not so sure about them, i still think Slickblades outshadow them by performing way better)

I think there is plenty of things to envy in other armies, starting with efficiency per point cost. That can be easily fixed in the future anyway. The unreliability of Locus and Shardspeaker is a serious matter tho. Something that certainly would be easier to gulp if the heroes were cheaper.

I think twinsouls are probably a decent choice for battleline, but they are definitely overcosted for what they are, and the lord of pain tax doesn't help that at all.

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3 hours ago, Yoid said:

I think there is plenty of things to envy in other armies, starting with efficiency per point cost. That can be easily fixed in the future anyway. The unreliability of Locus and Shardspeaker is a serious matter tho. Something that certainly would be easier to gulp if the heroes were cheaper.

I mean its a dice game and its in line with other faction abilities. Shardspeaker ability is basically a prayer except it goes off on 3+, instead of 4+ like most strong prayers, and it can be done after moving. Units with this type of abilities that are just point and click are outliers, not the other way around. As for Locus, there are plenty of armies with dice-rolling allegiance abilities and 3+ on KoS seems fairly reliable for how powerful it is. 

I'm curious, how would you change these abilities to make them less "unreliable"?

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1 hour ago, umpac said:

I mean its a dice game and its in line with other faction abilities. Shardspeaker ability is basically a prayer except it goes off on 3+, instead of 4+ like most strong prayers, and it can be done after moving. Units with this type of abilities that are just point and click are outliers, not the other way around. As for Locus, there are plenty of armies with dice-rolling allegiance abilities and 3+ on KoS seems fairly reliable for how powerful it is. 

I'm curious, how would you change these abilities to make them less "unreliable"?

I disagree with the shardspeaker being balanced in a 3+ because the range is really short and it points an enemy instead of an ally. In other armies you have instant effects that don't require a dice roll, that got better ranges or that point toward your own units making the positioning way easier. But i agree with the pray comparison. I disagree with the Shardspeaker himself being balanced at 150pts, other armies got similar support tools in the 100pts range, that is a 50% point cost difference, wich is a lot. I understand that half of the AoS armies got unreliable mechanics too, and the other half don't, but that dosn't fix the problem, simply aknowledge that even more problems exist.

As how would i change Viceleader and shardspeaker. Well, both heroes with a cost of 100pts seems worth to me, not gambling so many points into such unreliable mechanics make them less painful to fail.

Anyway, i was thinking earlier how would i fix locus specifically. I think i would limit locus to one per turn but make it automatically hit (or hit in a 2+).  

I also have some other ideas of what locus can be turned into, but that would be another completely different ability. To me it would be very interesting if it were simply "You always activate your first unit before your opponent" meaning that it got no effect in your turn, but in the opponent turn you get to activate one unit before he start activating his. And is not a fight first or fight last ability so dosn't play into the activation wars, it simply give you priority during the enemy turn.

Now let's do an exercise of imagination. Let's think for a moment in a world in wich LRL only get to do his double activation if they roll a 4+. Or IDK only get to fight first during the high tide in a 4+. Yep, there is a reason why people hate the bad moon mechanics, because they are incredibly random.

In a more deep tough process, making something random dosn't balance it, it just make it unbalanced half the time and worthless the other half. Thats why our last version of locus, that was also random, no longer exist.

While designing a game, the feelings that the player will experience should be important too. Generating more "This is epic i feel powerful" moments than "Oh ******, i don't get to play with my toys AGAIN" moments. Making something powerful is not unbalanced as long as it cost the apropiate amount of points. Making something weak is not unbalanced unless it is not pointed apropiately.

Don't take my opinion too serious because im simply a no-one that can be wrong in all places. But almost everyone seems to agre that Slaanesh update was poorly design in comparison to other recent releases (DoK and LRL) by having weaker less complex mechanics and an excessively taxing point cost of units.

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5 minutes ago, Yoid said:

disagree with the shardspeaker being balanced in a 3+ because the range is really short and it points an enemy instead of an ally. In other armies you have instant effects that don't require a dice roll, that got better ranges or that point toward your own units making the positioning way easier. But i agree with the pray comparison. I disagree with the Shardspeaker himself being balanced at 150pts, other armies got similar support tools in the 100pts range, that is a 50% point cost difference, wich is a lot. I understand that half of the AoS armies got unreliable mechanics too, and the other half don't, but that dosn't fix the problem, simply aknowledge that even more problems exist.

I disagree that the range is "really short". 6"+1d6+9" is good threat range, I've never had issues applying it even it seeker heavy cavalcade lists. The fact that it targets enemies also lets you essentially buff several units at the same time. What abilities are similar that doesn't require a dice roll?  Main issues is that the mortal lore is kind of garbage and lvl 1 casters with +0 cast are bad in the current meta.

150 is a little steep but I don't think its way off. Most lvl 1 casters are 90-120 without additional abilities (or with some very mediocre ones). At 150 shes an ok choice, at 120 shes good and at 100 I'd never build a list without one.

26 minutes ago, Yoid said:

Now let's do an exercise of imagination. Let's think for a moment in a world in wich LRL only get to do his double activation if they roll a 4+. Or IDK only get to fight first during the high tide in a 4+. Yep, there is a reason why people hate the bad moon mechanics, because they are incredibly random.

 Locus is a lot more potent than LRL double activation. IDK has their own "unreliability" since they have to wait for turn 3 to get the most out of their engages. If high tide was on a 4+ per unit but you had it every turn and your heavies got it on a 3+, would it really be worse? Soulrenders and Cathallars in those factions also have to roll dice to get their abilities off, but then again they are cheaper. The reason Bad moon sucks is because it's a combination of too random (much more so than Locus), has a weak effect and is the only faction ability they have outside Loonshrine stuff. 

 

1 hour ago, Yoid said:

In a more deep tough process, making something random dosn't balance it, it just make it unbalanced half the time and worthless the other half. Thats why our last version of locus, that was also random, no longer exist.

Yeah I partly agree on this. Making it unreliable means you have to play around that and gauge risk vs reward, which certainly helps to balance it. It is however a poor form of balance and it can easily lead to "feels bad" moments in both direction if you fail or succeed a bunch of rolls in a row. It is a dice game and there should be a lot of stuff that relies on dice rolls, but creating overly powerful mechanics and then balancing them with "half the time they do nothing " isn't great. I would rather have a more reliable but less powerful Locus for sure (like your suggestion). 

 

1 hour ago, Yoid said:

Don't take my opinion too serious because im simply a no-one that can be wrong in all places. But almost everyone seems to agre that Slaanesh update was poorly design in comparison to other recent releases (DoK and LRL) by having weaker less complex mechanics and an excessively taxing point cost of units.

As are we all. Maybe  the broken realms Belakor has a positive outcome. The last Everychosen book certainly had an impact.

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I'd argue our book is better designed than LRL. Our problems can be solved with a simple points adjustments and we're not saddled with impractical rules or bloated warscrolls. They've managed to create units with character without writing an essay. 

A concrete example, if the LoP/Shardspeaker gets dropped to 120-130pts alongside Blissbard Archers down to like 140 then suddenly the Depraved Carnival ain't such a bad deal which means we can combine it with a seeker cavalcade. Suddenly we're a two drop army. The shardspeaker is no longer a liability and the LoP can add in that wonderful CA re-rolls for mortal units. Or don't, and simply save points for the rest of the army.

Another, if our elite foot soldiers gets a reduction (170 to 150, 150 to 130) then Nobles of Excess becomes more viable. As mentioned in other posts, Lurid Haze adds a redeploy and a really good CA to increase saves. Hellstriders were brought up and I honestly think some players are sleeping on that -1 hit and 4+ save. If you're rocking up with Glutos or Fiends (summoned or not) that can create serious problems for an opponent's elite units and monsters.

All potential points adjustments adds up to more units, which means more wounds, which means more DP... And so on. It all adds up.

10 hours ago, LeonBox said:

For sure, I think if our host options had stuff like "all friendly daemon heroes gain +1 to Locus of Diversion rolls" then it would at least make it less frustrating. As it stands, frequently playing LRL and IDK with their guaranteed re-rolls from buff heroes is extremely annoying given how frequently I fail Locus/Horrible Fascination rolls. 

I'm hesitant to buff up the Locus since it could quickly spiral out of control. Reliably being able to charge in and pretty much shut down the combat phase would be extremely powerful and could create a decidedly unfun experience for the opponent. I'm not a huge fan of 4+ rolls and in the case of the Horrible Fascination it is such niche ability I don't really understand why it couldn't be an always on ability.

But yeah, adjust the points a bit and I think we'd be good. That way those abilities become nice to haves which sometimes goes off. 

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Correct, a points adjustment for a 2-3 units and Slaangors reworked would make us a powerhouse. 

@Enoby@AngryPanda

There is one more option we can take, wait with sending anything to GW until the Soulblight are out.  If their rules end up being systematically better than ours, then we can forget that HoS rules are signs of AOS 3 balance.

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1 hour ago, Sorrow said:

Correct, a points adjustment for a 2-3 units and Slaangors reworked would make us a powerhouse. 

@Enoby@AngryPanda

There is one more option we can take, wait with sending anything to GW until the Soulblight are out.  If their rules end up being systematically better than ours, then we can forget that HoS rules are signs of AOS 3 balance.

I'm hoping to write the draft survey tonight or tomorrow, which I'll wait for feedback before releasing a proper one. After that, I don't mind waiting for the SGL battetome until sending in any, just in case we're wrong :)

Just did a bit of work on Glutos 

20210411_173625.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I'm hoping to write the draft survey tonight or tomorrow, which I'll wait for feedback before releasing a proper one. After that, I don't mind waiting for the SGL battetome until sending in any, just in case we're wrong :)

Just did a bit of work on Glutos 

20210411_173625.jpg

I love the black marble with white veins aesthetic you are going for, please do post more as you finish Glutos.

You did a excellent job on phrasing questions,  so the draft survey should be very accurate in my humble opinion. Of course, I am hoping our fellow Hedonites here give their feedback too.

What do you expect of Soulblight?

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9 hours ago, umpac said:

Main issues is that the mortal lore is kind of garbage and lvl 1 casters with +0 cast are bad in the current meta.

At 150 shes an ok choice, at 120 shes good and at 100 I'd never build a list without one.

Locus is a lot more potent than LRL double activation. IDK has their own "unreliability" since they have to wait for turn 3 to get the most out of their engages. If high tide was on a 4+ per unit but you had it every turn and your heavies got it on a 3+, would it really be worse? Soulrenders and Cathallars in those factions also have to roll dice to get their abilities off, but then again they are cheaper. The reason Bad moon sucks is because it's a combination of too random (much more so than Locus), has a weak effect and is the only faction ability they have outside Loonshrine stuff. 

I can see the Viceleader and Shardspeaker being worth 120 in a different meta, but they are almost guaranteed to fail their casting in our current spell-dom meta. Maybe that is why 100pts sound more fair in my head. I would also make the Infernal Enrapturess 120pts for the same reason, she is only good at disrupting low casters, the true spell-doms simply ignore her.

I don't think is fair to simply say that IDK would be fine having it in a 4+ every single turn, because that afirmation seems to ignore that only our Daemon Heroes do locus and not our entire army. So you got to say something like "only some specific heroes, not even all in the army, get to do that roll, and you can only roll once per enemy unit no matter what". Our locus got some really weird limitations after all.

About LRL double activation being less powerful than our current locus. I don't think so. Our locus got some very specific situations in wich is useless (being charged and thus being already pile in by the enemy, or being in combat with a big centerpice monster that don't care about pile in moves) to that specific situations you add the moments in wich you fail the roll to apply it into a unit that really matters. So in some specific situations is better and in others is worst, and i don't think that justify the random roll or it being tied so specifically to the Daemon keyword. But is just a personal biased opinion. If the rest of the army were stronger, with the powerful models being cheaper, im sure i would feel locus as a fun little addon that is not core to the playstyle of the army. Like, if KoS really hit like a truck in the same way as other big monster centerpieces that cost 300+ points, im sure i would take the locus as a plus to the general extra goodness of the model. Or if Viceleader spell were giving +1 to hit instead of rerolling 1s (wich you can obtain in a million other ways) the locus may not feel so core and needed to me. It is also not the same a KoS that cost 340pts and one that cost 280pts (or 300pts or whathever). The more worth per point you make a unit the more you can think at the extra non-stat things as being an addon and not the core reason why you use it.

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Love the survey Enoby. Already filled it out and I see you added my question and worded it better than I could. Do you plan to share this with the FB group?

Edited by Carnith
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14 hours ago, Sorrow said:

I love the black marble with white veins aesthetic you are going for, please do post more as you finish Glutos.

You did a excellent job on phrasing questions,  so the draft survey should be very accurate in my humble opinion. Of course, I am hoping our fellow Hedonites here give their feedback too.

What do you expect of Soulblight?

Thank you :) I'll be posting more as I can do more; he's a really fun model to paint

The draft survey is up now with a few responses; if everything's working by the end of the day with no changes, I'll distribute it and hope we get some responses. 

I'm really not sure what to expect with Soulblight, though by now I'm pretty sure they'll have more reasonable points costs and probably some crazy rule GW didn't quite think through. That said, they could get unlucky and end up with just LoN 2.0 with only small changes - it would suck for vampire fans who wanted a fully fleshed out army, but sometimes I think GW can be a bit too liberal with CTRL+C when it comes to remaking battletomes. 

4 hours ago, Carnith said:

Love the survey Enoby. Already filled it out and I see you added my question and worded it better than I could. Do you plan to share this with the FB group?

Thank you :) I'll be sharing it with the all of the unofficial FB groups I'm in (which I think is most of the Slaanesh ones), the relevant Reddits, this forum, and the Whatsapp (hoping that maybe Warhammer Weekly will pick up on it and take it to Twitter). 

If there are no last minute changes, I'll just rename this survey and send it out. That said, I'm tempted to add on a "any other thoughts" question to make sure everything can be captured.

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59 minutes ago, Enoby said:

If there are no last minute changes, I'll just rename this survey and send it out. That said, I'm tempted to add on a "any other thoughts" question to make sure everything can be captured.

Both Symba/Myrm are listed as Twinsouls/Twinsouls not Twinsouls/Painbringers.

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2 minutes ago, pnkdth said:

Both Symba/Myrm are listed as Twinsouls/Twinsouls not Twinsouls/Painbringers.

Thanks, I'll get this changed when I'm back on my PC :)

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I've been sitting and toying around with different kinds of lists (as I like to do... too much) and I haven't really looked past allies bar the obvious (warriors or even marauders).

Previously in this thread there was a list with Fomoroid Crushers (which adds some muscle , MWs, extra ranged attack, and terrain disruption), Mindstealer Sphinx (for bravery manipulation), and so on. I've seen Archaon lists too but at that point I think the list becomes an S2D list. :D I believe someone mentioned Blightkings too.

Have you all explored any allied units and how did you use them? If so, I'd like to hear more! As usual, it doesn't have to be tournament viable stuff, cool and creative stuff too.

Edited by pnkdth
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I've tried One-Eyed Grunnock. It's surprising just how tough a Mega-Gargant really is, and how punchy it is if you can ping something with Dark Delusions. Will definitely give him another shot down the line, but you do feel the sting of such a big points sink not supporting your army (besides being a good Depravity generator) and only counting as 1 model for objectives (count as 20 rule is only for Sons of Behemat allegiance.) 

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20 hours ago, Enoby said:

I'm hoping to write the draft survey tonight or tomorrow, which I'll wait for feedback before releasing a proper one. After that, I don't mind waiting for the SGL battetome until sending in any, just in case we're wrong :)

@Sorrow

My apologies for the long response and absence from the board, law school can be awful at times via the workloads. I'm unsure of what developments have happened since we've been discussing the creation of a poll, but I think we should be prepared to release sometime before the summer (ideally late April or early May) to give the Age of Sigmar community as a whole to responds and circulate the questions, and give GW time to implement the feedback into the assumed GHB. Otherwise, if we were to release the poll too close to Summer, then it may not give GW enough time to review and consider the propositioned changes.

I also read that it would be a good idea to incorporate a question or answer in the poll that goes something on the lines of "I am interested in the models, but the point costs have kept me from investing/buying from the Hedonites of Slaanesh range." 

Or, another means of rephrasing this question or answer: "The point costs have kept me from collecting the army, but I am interested in the Hedonites of Slaanesh range as a whole in terms of design and sculpts." 

Those are my two cents; I think the poll so far looks good, and maybe can incorporate questions or answers that ask if whether the point costs repulsed players or not. Personally, I believe sales and points/strength of an overall army correlate directly into higher sales numbers. This may give the illusion that an army isn't popular and does not have a fanbase, but in reality people are afraid of collecting the army because of their potential to be difficult to play. 

It can also be due to the challenge of painting and collecting the range, such as Skaven being notoriously difficult to collect simply because of the quanity of model's one needs to collect and paint. This may be the case for Slaanesh as well, as we are considered to have recieved some of the best sculpts within Age of Sigmar; whether we want to include a question/answer that inquires into this is debatable, as it might sidetrack the mission of the poll. 

 

Edit: 

Also, I don't know if this was mentioned, we should also concentrate distributing the survey to some key figures in the community (Honest Wargamer, Miniwargaming, Goonhammer, etc.), and see if they would like to participate. It's a long shot, but the ones mentioned (and maybe more) are sympathetic with our beliefs, and if they post the poll on their webpage or make a remark regarding it, that could be big. 

Edited by AngryPanda
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A bit of an odd question for you all. So I have a lot of hellstriders back from when there weren't any other themed slaanesh stuff. Do you think it's possible to build a list around them? I realize that they aren't an ideal unit ... I just have 25 of them after shadow and pain.

For reference, my area is currently in some sort of competitive arms race. (I have no idea why) Like the kindest list I've fought (outside of the couple of newbies) is a Khorne bloodthirster spam.

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