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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion


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6 hours ago, Yokai said:

The good folks over at Goonhammer did a re-evaluation of the battletome, two weeks later. It's a good read.

Evaluating the new Hedonites of Slaanesh Battletome – Is the Army Any Good Now?

Damn. I still don't have any of my new models (I live in China and it's moving slowly here) but it's sounding less and less like I'm gonna have a good time with them. I guess I'll prioritise building Glutos and the Slickblades since they sound like my best competitive options. 

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Now that Goonhammer has given the re-evaluation, in addition to the general negative feedback that the book has received from other prominent figures and the community as a whole, I have a feeling GW will have to address the point costs. If the OBR are able to get a point reduction to their necropolis stalkers, we should definitely be getting some sort of reduction. Otherwise, it would be insane if we didn’t. 

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4 hours ago, AngryPanda said:

Now that Goonhammer has given the re-evaluation, in addition to the general negative feedback that the book has received from other prominent figures and the community as a whole, I have a feeling GW will have to address the point costs. If the OBR are able to get a point reduction to their necropolis stalkers, we should definitely be getting some sort of reduction. Otherwise, it would be insane if we didn’t. 

I really look forward to a repricing of our points. Having the ability to field a decent mob of myrmadesh and symbaresh alongside slickblades is what I really want to get out of this book.

Currently a list I'm considering is:

Lord of Pain

Bladebringer on Seeker Chariot

Myrmadesh x10

Symbaresh x10

Symbaresh x10

Slickblades x5

Slickblades x5

Nobles of Excess

Seeker Cavalcade

I'd really like to fit in a shardspeaker and upgrade the bladebringer to exalted, and maybe squeeze in some blissbarbs. With some point reductions a lot of that would be possible.

I think the most jarring thing about the new book is that I want to build the kind of lists I used to, and that's just not what this tome is about. Having so few heroes makes the list feel naked, but I can actually field units that get to interact with the allegiance abilities in a more direct way, and that's pretty cool. It would be nice to be able to field more of the support pieces that let us really shine, and the new book forces disappointingly hard decisions.

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13 hours ago, Yokai said:

The good folks over at Goonhammer did a re-evaluation of the battletome, two weeks later. It's a good read.

Evaluating the new Hedonites of Slaanesh Battletome – Is the Army Any Good Now?

Definitely an interesting read. I certainly felt like the initial review was a bit too generalised and didn't consider how the book itself would stand in actual games.

While the introduction comparing Hedonites as Sylvaneth 2.0 is a bit overdramatic, it's definitely true that we'll be a bit of a joke as a faction until our points are addressed. Fortunately, like the article itself mentions, our problem is much easier to solve than Sylvaneth's. Unfortunately, repricing won't come until Summer at the earliest.

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3 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

I really look forward to a repricing of our points. Having the ability to field a decent mob of myrmadesh and symbaresh alongside slickblades is what I really want to get out of this book.

Currently a list I'm considering is:

Lord of Pain

Bladebringer on Seeker Chariot

Myrmadesh x10

Symbaresh x10

Symbaresh x10

Slickblades x5

Slickblades x5

Nobles of Excess

Seeker Cavalcade

I'd really like to fit in a shardspeaker and upgrade the bladebringer to exalted, and maybe squeeze in some blissbarbs. With some point reductions a lot of that would be possible.

I think the most jarring thing about the new book is that I want to build the kind of lists I used to, and that's just not what this tome is about. Having so few heroes makes the list feel naked, but I can actually field units that get to interact with the allegiance abilities in a more direct way, and that's pretty cool. It would be nice to be able to field more of the support pieces that let us really shine, and the new book forces disappointingly hard decisions.

This is a nice, fluffy list that looks like it would be an absolute blast to play. It's a shame we don't have any mounted mortal heroes to complete the almost-wholly mortal list here. Of course, as you point out, it's a bigger shame you can't realistically field this list. 

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1 hour ago, LeonBox said:

This is a nice, fluffy list that looks like it would be an absolute blast to play. It's a shame we don't have any mounted mortal heroes to complete the almost-wholly mortal list here. Of course, as you point out, it's a bigger shame you can't realistically field this list. 

Oh, I would've been over the moon if we'd had a new boobsnake lord in this release. I'm tempted to convert something that evokes that in the right size to count as a bladebringer.

Despite the costs, this list is technically 2000 points on the nose, so I may give it a go and see how it works out.

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10 hours ago, AngryPanda said:

Now that Goonhammer has given the re-evaluation, in addition to the general negative feedback that the book has received from other prominent figures and the community as a whole, I have a feeling GW will have to address the point costs. If the OBR are able to get a point reduction to their necropolis stalkers, we should definitely be getting some sort of reduction. Otherwise, it would be insane if we didn’t. 

I had 17 games with new Hedonites. Lost 11, won 6. 

I lost against armies that had actually strong melee and/or magic/shooting such as OBR, Seraphon, Lumineth and Tzeentch.  

There are viable units and combinations, but overall the faction lacks direction and as @Gistradagis already said, there is little to no meaningful synergy.

 

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20 minutes ago, Sorrow said:

I had 17 games with new Hedonites. Lost 11, won 6. 

I lost against armies that had actually strong melee and/or magic/shooting such as OBR, Seraphon, Lumineth and Tzeentch.  

There are viable units and combinations, but overall the faction lacks direction and as @Gistradagis already said, there is little to no meaningful synergy.

 

Out of curiosity, what is the list you used?

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I ran two lists, first is the courtesy of @Enoby.  This is the list that granted me all of my wins. 

Spoiler

Invaders Lurid Haze

Glutos (400pts)

Syll'Esske (200pts) - general

Lord of Pain

11 Blissbarb Archers (160pts)

11 Blissbarb Archers (160pts)

11 Blissbarb Archers (160pts) 

5 Slickglaive Seekers (200pts)

5 Slickglaive Seekers (200pts)

5 Slickglaive Seekers (200pts)

Seeker Cavalcade (160pts) 

The second list is not worth writing, to be frank. Nobles of Excess with Glutos, Sigvald and Lord of Pain. Its supposed chief power, melee, fails miserably. 

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3 hours ago, Sorrow said:

I had 17 games with new Hedonites. Lost 11, won 6. 

I lost against armies that had actually strong melee and/or magic/shooting such as OBR, Seraphon, Lumineth and Tzeentch.  

There are viable units and combinations, but overall the faction lacks direction and as @Gistradagis already said, there is little to no meaningful synergy.

 

That’s rough, I’m sorry to hear that lol. I like an army having some challenge and thought when playing, but to have such an up mountain struggle in list building against other armies makes it frustrating, at least from my perspective. 
 

With the number of people in the community criticizing the book, like Honest Wargamer, Goonhammer, and other prominent figures, I think we’re gonna see something come out of this. If we don’t, then it shows a a decent detachment from the community, and would look bad on GW’s part. 
 

Who knows? We might see some massive point decreases; a Shardspeaker for 90-100 points would be awesome, and I don’t believe it would be OP. However, realistically I would imagine a 20-30 point drop on stuff across the board, which I would still be happy about. The only unit that really needs a complete revamp is the Fiendbloods, which have sort of became a meme because of how badly they’ve been designed. 
 

Next week I plan to write the design team a positive and constructive email with some suggestions on point decreases, and how to improve the army in the future. I also suggest that for people who feel the same to do this as well, as the more voices that are heard, the more likely change will happen. 

 

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4 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

Oh, I would've been over the moon if we'd had a new boobsnake lord in this release. I'm tempted to convert something that evokes that in the right size to count as a bladebringer.

Despite the costs, this list is technically 2000 points on the nose, so I may give it a go and see how it works out.

Could you imagine? A dual kit or even a tri kit. Boob snake lord. Named Hero on Snake. Generic lord on Snake, Caster on Snake. Lord on Snake could've unlocked seeker battleline. 

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I think the biggest concern I have with a points decrease is how expensive the army is going to become. It's already pretty bad with the new GW pricing and the heavy reliance on summoning, but if we get a 20% points reduction that means the army is going to get even worse. Personally I'd much prefer them update the army to be worth the points cost, but I guess I know that isn't how GW operates. 

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3 minutes ago, AngryPanda said:

Who knows? We might see some massive point decreases; a Shardspeaker for 90-100 points would be awesome, and I don’t believe it would be OP. However, realistically I would imagine a 20-30 point drop on stuff across the board, which I would still be happy about. The only unit that really needs a complete revamp is the Fiendbloods, which have sort of became a meme because of how badly they’ve been designed. 

While we certainly are in a position to see point reductions I'd strongly recommend everyone to not assume that changes are coming and building/collecting a force with the hopes that they will see significant buffs.

Look at Nighthaunt or Sylvaneth, the community and "prominent figures" has been in agreement that they need big buffs for years and they've basically been untouched (NH even got significant nerfs thanks to LoG). GW can be unpredictable in this regard.

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37 minutes ago, umpac said:

While we certainly are in a position to see point reductions I'd strongly recommend everyone to not assume that changes are coming and building/collecting a force with the hopes that they will see significant buffs.

Look at Nighthaunt or Sylvaneth, the community and "prominent figures" has been in agreement that they need big buffs for years and they've basically been untouched (NH even got significant nerfs thanks to LoG). GW can be unpredictable in this regard.

I agree here that we should be cautious, but on the other hand the fixes to those armies seem harder to do than points - they seem systemic to the army. While points changes would help, the complaints seem to be more along the lines of those armies being fundamentally poor, whereas most of our complaints are "they cost how much?". That's not to say we're guaranteed a points fix, but at least the community consensus is clear. 

That said, if we do get a change I think it'll be minor at first to be careful; so maybe a 20 points decrease here and there, and then a larger additional decrease in December if complaints continue. While frustrating, it's better for changes to be carefully thought out.  

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If there are going to be any cost reductions for our faction, they absolutely must be done properly. 

No massive reductions to make the faction overpowered and no cosmetic reductions which change nothing.

Balanced.

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Trying to make a list, as I've said before, always feels like I'm missing something, in this case, something to make use of the second artifact from the Batallion. 

Godseekers

Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot  - General - Artefact: Enrapturing Circlet - Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation

Syll'Esske, the Vengeful Allegiance

Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh

UNITS

11 x Blissbarb Archers 

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers

5 x Slickblade Seekers

5 x Slickblade Seekers

1 x Seeker Chariots

1 x Seeker Chariots

BATTALIONS

Seeker Cavalcade 

 

1970/2000

I'd love 6 Fiends but can't fit them in, Keeper will be summoned as will Daemonettes to pad things out. Not sure how this will go into a 40 Mortek Guard list....

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24 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I agree here that we should be cautious, but on the other hand the fixes to those armies seem harder to do than points - they seem systemic to the army. While points changes would help, the complaints seem to be more along the lines of those armies being fundamentally poor, whereas most of our complaints are "they cost how much?". That's not to say we're guaranteed a points fix, but at least the community consensus is clear. 

That said, if we do get a change I think it'll be minor at first to be careful; so maybe a 20 points decrease here and there, and then a larger additional decrease in December if complaints continue. While frustrating, it's better for changes to be carefully thought out.  

I agree, and I am careful to assume that we will see point reductions because even though they’re deserved, that does not mean that they are guaranteed, which is why I believe it is wise to email GW if the same sentiment is shared. With BoC, Sylvaneth, and NH, the changes that need to be made are more fundamental to their design, and not just to point costs.  
 

With HoS, I feel we also have the same problem (issue in our design), as there is little synergy within the book. Our battalions are somewhat strange, and we don’t have many generic mortal heroes, such as a decent General. The Lord of Pain and Shardspeaker are more akin to a lieutenant then the leaders of an army. If we were to get another release far ahead in the future (either through an expansion/campaign book or a new battletome), I hope to see heroes that would fill this role and increase synergy capabilities, or new battalions and rules that would do the same.

The biggest controversy right now is the points, and I want to emphasize that if the community wants change, this needs to be voice in a polite and constructive means via email or other healthy avenues.

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2 hours ago, AngryPanda said:

That’s rough, I’m sorry to hear that lol. I like an army having some challenge and thought when playing, but to have such an up mountain struggle in list building against other armies makes it frustrating, at least from my perspective. 
 

 

To be blunt, I think 6 wins and 11 loses with a new army is not necessarily all that terrible rate. 

Also I do play in a extremely competitive local meta,  a lot of people are constantly prepping for tournaments across Europe.

Suffice to say, I am not really a hardcore competitive player.  

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So list I'm milling about in my mind

Bladebringer on exalted chariot

General

Trait: either retreat and charge or on the charge 2+ for units near it take d3 mw.

Keeper of secrets

Another keeper

2 units of blissbarbs

5 warriors

3x5 slickblades

No battalion, which does suck, but i don't know what artifact to take. I'm thinking cameo, pop it, and dump it for a +1 to hit. Probably on a keeper. 

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3 hours ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

I'd love 6 Fiends but can't fit them in, Keeper will be summoned as will Daemonettes to pad things out. Not sure how this will go into a 40 Mortek Guard list....

I wouldn't take Fiends without Glutos anyway, and to fit both in you have to change ~1/3 of your army. In seekers cavalcade you definitely have the tools to deal with a 40 blob, just stall them with Locus and/or 2.9" cavalcade pile-in shenanigans and win on objectives. You don't have enough shooting or strong enough melee to tackle a 40 blob praetorian Morteks in honest combat. Sigwald could put the hurt on them with a good charge roll and double pile-in but he'll die in prolonged combat so you're better off removing them from play in other ways and directing your damage to smaller units. If the Morteks get into a good position before you can jam them up then its gonna be rough. 

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9 minutes ago, umpac said:

I wouldn't take Fiends without Glutos anyway, and to fit both in you have to change ~1/3 of your army. In seekers cavalcade you definitely have the tools to deal with a 40 blob, just stall them with Locus and/or 2.9" cavalcade pile-in shenanigans and win on objectives. You don't have enough shooting or strong enough melee to tackle a 40 blob praetorian Morteks in honest combat. Sigwald could put the hurt on them with a good charge roll and double pile-in but he'll die in prolonged combat so you're better off removing them from play in other ways and directing your damage to smaller units. If the Morteks get into a good position before you can jam them up then its gonna be rough. 

I've put together so many lists trying to get everything I want, I've done some Glutos and Fiends, but always struggle with Battleline and feel like I'm handicapping myself by taking 6 Fiends which is almost 2 units of Slickblades which are probably overall better. 

Don't know if it makes a difference but the 40 Mortek will be in 2 units of 20, not a single unit. 

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For those who have been getting some games in , Is Glutos looking like a "must have" for the army or can another Keeper or syl eske take on the leader roll okay and make due without the benefits that Glutos offers?

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Does anyone have an experience with building/kitbashing both options out of a mymadesh painbringers box? 

Seems to only be worth the price if you can get 5 painbringers AND 5 twinsouls out of it

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1 hour ago, Cambot1231 said:

For those who have been getting some games in , Is Glutos looking like a "must have" for the army or can another Keeper or syl eske take on the leader roll okay and make due without the benefits that Glutos offers?

He isn‘t. He is good and a good Tank in a fragile army, that‘s it :)

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31 minutes ago, Arcce said:

Does anyone have an experience with building/kitbashing both options out of a mymadesh painbringers box? 

Seems to only be worth the price if you can get 5 painbringers AND 5 twinsouls out of it

If you have any cheap stormcasts, the spare parts of the Painbringers kits attach very well. Stormcast are usually super cheap on ebay

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