AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Acid_Nine]

5 hours ago, Poryague said:

That's 480 point block thats a quarter of you army for 1 battline. If you want them for combat it would be good idea to take the chaos lord on foot so he can give out run and charge. That brings it to 620 points.  on average will be 7 may 10 of these guys getting in depending on the charge. You may want some shields in there just to tank mortal wounds. Its definitely a hard to shift unit.  May want to add enrapturess  to starter roster as well enarapturess and epitome can handle magic fairly well.

 

Okay, that is actually around what I was thinking too. Epitome, chaos lord on foot and a sorcerer to cast that +1 to hit spell on a unit for my block to run down with great weapons. Plus, if they stay above 20 they get 2 hits per six rolled?

[Poryague]

34 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

 

Okay, that is actually around what I was thinking too. Epitome, chaos lord on foot and a sorcerer to cast that +1 to hit spell on a unit for my block to run down with great weapons. Plus, if they stay above 20 they get 2 hits per six rolled?

The +1 to hit spell I didnt find it as usefull as the chaos sorcerer spell daemonic power. The problem is when you run into things with bravery 8+. You have to run phantasmagoria and unless you get a good roll it kinda sucks. It's so swingy and inconsistent. Against lower bravery armies it should work better. Unfortunately I keep playing high bravery armies so my milage with those spells is bad.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Poryague

[Carnith]

Fought tzeentch today. Same list except I used a vice leader instead of a second enrapturess. 

Tzeentch player took a bunch of flamers and exalted flamers. 3 pink horrors, loc, scribes, herald. Turn 1 he didn’t move and Cast portals. Didn’t do much. On my turn I healed up damage and moved forward. He kept tempo, threw more spells and moved up. And somewhat engaged me. From my hand and heals, I full healed on keeper, and engaged his exalted flamer chariot. A bunch of other engages left me feeling fine. His turn he deals more mw to the keeper and flamers do some damage. My turn he denies all of my spells with what he has left, and I move up and engage. The keeper one shots the lord of change and he calls it. I would have tabled him on turn 3 with a total of 40ish depravity. I summoned a second enrapturess but I could have summonened probably another keeper. 

[Poryague]

Winner of battle of northern realms slaanesh. Quotes found from player on face book group warhammer: headonites and host of slaanesh.

"battle of the northern realms. Not sure if rest of the full results are up yet but it was slaanesh, dok and NH on the podium. Lots of australian masters players in attendance too. Was a pretty tight field with 24ish players"

"blister piloted by masters player, hagnar by masters player, 18 eels by one of my clubmates who found his way on table1 rd5."

[Acid_Nine]

1 hour ago, Poryague said:

Winner of battle of northern realms slaanesh. Quotes found from player on face book group warhammer: headonites and host of slaanesh.

"battle of the northern realms. Not sure if rest of the full results are up yet but it was slaanesh, dok and NH on the podium. Lots of australian masters players in attendance too. Was a pretty tight field with 24ish players"

"blister piloted by masters player, hagnar by masters player, 18 eels by one of my clubmates who found his way on table1 rd5."

Was that the one from milwaukee

[Poryague]

11 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

Was that the one from milwaukee

Cairns, Australia

[Carnith]

So how have your opponents felt after facing you guys? I’ve gotten quite a few complaints and “too strong “ and “I’m not having fun”

One complained about the keeper of secrets command ability and a lot complain about depravity yet I’ve only summoned one enrapturess at most

[Poryague]

5 minutes ago, carnith said:

So how have your opponents felt after facing you guys? I’ve gotten quite a few complaints and “too strong “ and “I’m not having fun”

One complained about the keeper of secrets command ability and a lot complain about depravity yet I’ve only summoned one enrapturess at most

Its overwhelming to people mostly because of the new rules. Its beatable its going to be mission dependent and army dependent.

[Belmail]

So a quick question from you guys? I played my buddy's FeC today and if a keeper is in combat with a unit and it's the only combat for the round(keeper vs terrorgheist) can you not double activate the keeper? Based on the wording for the command ability it might not seem so, it says when it is your turn to activate. After the keeper swings it seems like it is the FeC player's turn to activate, so he would get to potentially double swing back with feeding frenzy?

Also if you summon a caster hero does it get to pick a spell?

[Poryague]

18 minutes ago, Belmail said:

So a quick question from you guys? I played my buddy's FeC today and if a keeper is in combat with a unit and it's the only combat for the round(keeper vs terrorgheist) can you not double activate the keeper? Based on the wording for the command ability it might not seem so, it says when it is your turn to activate. After the keeper swings it seems like it is the FeC player's turn to activate, so he would get to potentially double swing back with feeding frenzy?

Also if you summon a caster hero does it get to pick a spell?

The game only moves to the end of combat once all units that can do stuff during the combat phase have done so. So yeah the comand ability would let you activate.

Yes you pick a spell for wizards that are summoned.

[Rentar]

2 hours ago, Belmail said:

So a quick question from you guys? I played my buddy's FeC today and if a keeper is in combat with a unit and it's the only combat for the round(keeper vs terrorgheist) can you not double activate the keeper? Based on the wording for the command ability it might not seem so, it says when it is your turn to activate. After the keeper swings it seems like it is the FeC player's turn to activate, so he would get to potentially double swing back with feeding frenzy?

Also if you summon a caster hero does it get to pick a spell?

Unlike Feeding Frenzy, the KoS' command ability does not state "Immediately". So you get to activate a second time whenever you like, but it consumes one activation. Feeding Frenzy has to be activated immediately after the first pile in, but does not consume an activation.

I hope that clarifies things. 

[Belmail]

The real question is, if the keeper is the only combat and there are no legal activations left can you still double activate? If so, does the enemy get to activate before you even if he is fighting last? 

[Magnus The Blue]

1 hour ago, Belmail said:

The real question is, if the keeper is the only combat and there are no legal activations left can you still double activate? If so, does the enemy get to activate before you even if he is fighting last? 

Of cause you can, the combat phase only ends when both players have not activated a unit one after each other.

[Arcce]

Been trying to choose between getting BoC for Depraved Drove with 30 bestigors or running a StD cavalry combo. 

The StD combo being godseekers and a 10 or more man unit of chaos Knights. A lord of chaos on foot and a mounted one, as well as a chaos sorcerer with mount option. 

The idea is buffing the unit up with +1 to hit and reroll charges with mounted lord. Then giving them run and charge with on foot Lord. Then lastly putting Daemonic Power on them with Sorcerer to reroll all ones. 

Equipped with Glaives that seems pretty deadly. Not to mention Into the Fray on Lord of Chaos being a fun combo. 

However idk how to math these things to see how good it actually is, compared to like 30 Bestigors. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Arcce

[Kasper]

9 hours ago, Poryague said:

Winner of battle of northern realms slaanesh. Quotes found from player on face book group warhammer: headonites and host of slaanesh.

"battle of the northern realms. Not sure if rest of the full results are up yet but it was slaanesh, dok and NH on the podium. Lots of australian masters players in attendance too. Was a pretty tight field with 24ish players"

"blister piloted by masters player, hagnar by masters player, 18 eels by one of my clubmates who found his way on table1 rd5."

I'm somehow not really surprised by this list. Joel has played loads of BoC and prefers to run as many models as possible. In his BoC lists he has like 150+ models in a 2.000 pts list. He said his playstyle was counterpunch, and not just move everything up the table and ram it at the opponent.

[whispersofblood]

1 hour ago, Arcce said:

Been trying to choose between getting BoC for Depraved Drove with 30 bestigors or running a StD cavalry combo. 

The StD combo being godseekers and a 10 or more man unit of chaos Knights. A lord of chaos on foot and a mounted one, as well as a chaos sorcerer with mount option. 

The idea is buffing the unit up with +1 to hit and reroll charges with mounted lord. Then giving them run and charge with on foot Lord. Then lastly putting Daemonic Power on them with Sorcerer to reroll all ones. 

Equipped with Glaives that seems pretty deadly. Not to mention Into the Fray on Lord of Chaos being a fun combo. 

However idk how to math these things to see how good it actually is, compared to like 30 Bestigors. 

The problem with Chaos Knights is that they take up a lot of space and their dmg per inch is not high at all. Meaning when you need the dmg the unit can apply most it will also be very easy to mitigate their ability to apply it. They are one of those units that seem amazing when you are winning. They are probably the toughest unit HoS have at hand however so they might have a place once people start learning how to mitigate depravity generation in a month or two.

Bestigors are our best infantry unit in terms of raw damage output. They are paper and you will lose the unit unless you break the opponent's ability to do dmg as soon as a you get them stuck in. But they out damage the Knights considerably. 

One of the things I'm loving most about HoC is that I can't figure out their final evolution. I can see a few builds based on where the meta is likely to go, but something is still not quite clear to me.

[whispersofblood]

1 hour ago, Kasper said:

I'm somehow not really surprised by this list. Joel has played loads of BoC and prefers to run as many models as possible. In his BoC lists he has like 150+ models in a 2.000 pts list. He said his playstyle was counterpunch, and not just move everything up the table and ram it at the opponent.

Yeah this is pretty much the most stable pretenders archtype. It's basically a more flexible DoK from the get go, trades the defence on the Monster (KoS v Morathi) for the ability to summon. 

In pretenders Epicurean revellers is essentially because it gives you units with significant threat besides the KoS general. 

[Enoby]

9 hours ago, carnith said:

So how have your opponents felt after facing you guys? I’ve gotten quite a few complaints and “too strong “ and “I’m not having fun”

One complained about the keeper of secrets command ability and a lot complain about depravity yet I’ve only summoned one enrapturess at most

I've had a lot of complaints too, mostly that it's not fun to play against and the opponent feels as if they can do nothing.  

[Arcce]

1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:

The problem with Chaos Knights is that they take up a lot of space and their dmg per inch is not high at all. Meaning when you need the dmg the unit can apply most it will also be very easy to mitigate their ability to apply it. They are one of those units that seem amazing when you are winning. They are probably the toughest unit HoS have at hand however so they might have a place once people start learning how to mitigate depravity generation in a month or two.

Bestigors are our best infantry unit in terms of raw damage output. They are paper and you will lose the unit unless you break the opponent's ability to do dmg as soon as a you get them stuck in. But they out damage the Knights considerably. 

I didn't think of that but then they also serve the function of surviving the hit back better than bestigors. 

How big are their bases? If they are fiend size maybe its just better to run fiends, who can be quite destructive and tanky ish. 

A squad of 20 knights get exploding attacks and tag a few units but how much space is that actually?

[Elazar The Glorified]

Knights are the same base size as Fiends. I liked them as an anvil when Hellstriders could babysit them and make them harder to hit. They're still tough but they definitely don't pull their weight on the dealing damage front. They have a place where their durability and base size is a strength. E.g just owning an objective in No Man's Land but they may need help capturing it first if you want it done quickly etc

Bestigor will grab you an objective from the enemy but they won't hold it under any real pressure. 

I'm really enjoying my Beasts in HoS. Not managing to really use my Fiends at all though at the moment

 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Elazar The Glorified

[Carnith]

3 hours ago, Enoby said:

I've had a lot of complaints too, mostly that it's not fun to play against and the opponent feels as if they can do nothing.  

I get this to some degree, but i see the counters to our armies. Shooting hurts. Multiple engagements on our heroes will see them dead. Chaff units may die, but we dont go through them quick enough. And it's not like before the book, where we stacked -hit modifiers and made enemies hit on 6's for elite troops. Like there are work arounds to our Locus. Anything that allows instant activation goes around us, such as Khorne or Ironjawz. 

Talking with a friend, he asked me if the problem was if I was just good at the game, is the book good, or are my opponents bad, and while I don't want to be rude, it could very well be all 3. I've had 2 opponents ask to play straight up run across and murder each other, and then they go "Oh god this army isn't fun to play against!" Well sure, you opted for the game mode that doesn't require me to actually think of how to play. I can run forward and gage what combats I want to take. Hell, every game also ends in complaining about the double turn, but in all 4 of my games, I have never double turned yet. I've summoned also one 1 model at most in each game, an enrapturess. Opponents complain about my potential to summon, but I don't even take advantage of it, cause I'm already winning. 

It feels frustrating to play because I get constant complaints of the army, and everyone hoping the FAQ/Errata is going to nerf us. Like, I don't understand how they see the Keeper's CA broken, when DoK does it, and has a 60 point Priest who gives a unit Battleshock immunity AND reroll wounds. I've also brought up how all of my points have gone up, and my summoning has gotten more expensive. I'd bring less heroes, but I just know my normal units will do just as much work, just that I won't get as much depravity, and my opponents will still feel that 210 for fiends isn't justified... 

I don't know how else to make the game fun for my opponents who "just wanna push models across the board". 

Sorry for the rant, but 3 weeks of complaining about new book from nearly every opponent (Squig GSG player is super chill and just calls the keeper a strong model), has me not as excited to play. 

[Overread]

I think its just that Slaanesh doesn't play well against if you're just charging into them meat-grinder style. It's a close combat army with tricks to force the opponent to attack last and which generate a bonus when attacking and when attacked on the leaders. Honestly if your opponents are just charging and not really engaging any tactics or thinking then I'd wager they will get annoyed playing against any army that doesn't mirror that tactical approach; or any player who can out think them. 

If you keep beating them then I'd say its time to consider letting them take the advantage - let them have more points or you take less etc.... Or try a siege/assault mission where one player is entrenched and the other is assaulting a fortified position etc... Ergo change things up to try and balance out the challenge for them. 

[Carnith]

3 minutes ago, Overread said:

I think its just that Slaanesh doesn't play well against if you're just charging into them meat-grinder style. It's a close combat army with tricks to force the opponent to attack last and which generate a bonus when attacking and when attacked on the leaders. Honestly if your opponents are just charging and not really engaging any tactics or thinking then I'd wager they will get annoyed playing against any army that doesn't mirror that tactical approach; or any player who can out think them. 

If you keep beating them then I'd say its time to consider letting them take the advantage - let them have more points or you take less etc.... Or try a siege/assault mission where one player is entrenched and the other is assaulting a fortified position etc... Ergo change things up to try and balance out the challenge for them. 

I did this to some degree in my last game. It was a Tzeentch army and he used two 1's to get more pinks despite that since it takes the place of their roll... wouldn't I technically make them reroll for the daemon horns? I didn't bring it up and let him have it. The keeper in that game didn't even do much. Killed a Exalted Flamer Chariot and killed a LoC, but the game was done at that point.

[Elazar The Glorified]

I played a Better Part of Valour game against a Khorne army yesterday. 

I won the game comfortably by playing the mission better. Through Depravity Points I summoned two Keepers over the course of the game. 

Interestingly my opponent found that quite hard to stomach. However, when he called it he had enough Blood Tithe to summon his second Bloodthirster. He played MSU around a big block of Skullcrushers (who completely nullify our edge if allowed to charge) and dropped one Keeper in a single round of magic (not magic though). I think the next game will be much tougher against this opponent as he knows the tricks now and won't be as passive engaging with the scenario. But clearly, if built to maximise to both sets of summoning are very productive. It will be interesting to see in a few weeks id sentiment is the same or it is just the newness and the way that building to our strengths also builds nicely to our theme

[Arcce]

I play Khorne as well and basically feel he got the short end of the straw Battletome wise compared to Slaanesh. However, still very fun but yeah would never bet on Khorne vs Slaanesh. 

I will play HoS against the stronger armies my Khorne could never beat and just mess around with weird lists both Khorne and Slaanesh against anyone else.