AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[AronQ_]

13 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I personally prefer twinsouls, but @zombiepiratexxx is right that they fill different roles; painbringers are good at defending against no or low rend chaff, whereas twinsouls are better at damage or defending against high rend or mortal wounds

So twinsouls have much potential than painbringers. I will also buy Lord of Pain, don't know how he is good, but I love the model.

[Enoby]

Looks like we're back online!

Thanks everyone for filling out the survey, have over 300 responses now - I'll post results nearer to the time

[Sorrow]

We are back!

@Enoby I must admit that I  am looking forward to results. How other fellow Hedonites see the state of our faction.

[AronQ_]

Hello hedonites-friends! I have a question, Sigvald's attacks characteristic matches his unmodified charge roll (With a minimum of 5 attacks), so his max attackes are  12 or 15(because of powered by vainglory +3 charge)?

[TheArborealWalrus]

28 minutes ago, AronQ_ said:

so his max attackes are  12 or 15(because of powered by vainglory +3 charge)?

His max attacks are 12 as it says "unmodified charge roll." His natural +3 is still a modification.

[Enoby]

5 hours ago, Sorrow said:

We are back!

@Enoby I must admit that I  am looking forward to results. How other fellow Hedonites see the state of our faction.

Hopefully everyone will find it interesting - and @AngryPanda has kindly volunteered to get in touch with some of the larger AoS voices to ask them to share the survey too. Even if we get no more people though, I think we have a good enough number of player voices

Whether we see any change or not is to be seen, but they can't say we didn't try  

In other news, I did buy some more twinsouls - while I don't think they will function amazingly at the moment, I really like the aesthetic of a mostly foot troop army that focusses on tanking. I'm thinking something along the line of this:

Lurid Haze invaders

Lord of Pain (general) - Lurid haze trait, Lurid haze artifact for fane

Glutos - battleshock spell

Viceleader (general, careful to not be too near LoP) - Rod of Misrule, healing spell

Twinsouls x 10 

Twinsouls x10

Twinsouls x5

Chaos Warriors x5

Chaos warriors x5 

Nobles of Excess

Emerald Lifeswarm

Dreadful Visage

Extra CP

1990pts total 

It's not a good list - definitely a 'friendly' one for a casual game, but it's trying to be a tanky Slaanesh list that has more punch than a wet noodle (unlike pure chaos warrior lists). The chaos warriors exist to screen or to cap objectives, and the twinsouls are mostly the damage dealers (helped a bit by the visage). Mainly, it'll be about striking at the right time so twinsouls get the benefit of the rrs to wound and rrs to hit. The 10 twinsouls, when rr both, should do about 25 damage to a 4+ save and 34 to a 5+ (42 to a 6+ but you don't really see them around much). 

Again, it's a pretty casual list and does have some glaring weaknesses, but on the other hand DP shouldn't be too hard to come by to make up for those weaknesses 

[AngryPanda]

We’re back! 

[Enoby]

I've done a bit more work on Glutos - mostly just the snake and the riders to go now

[AronQ_]

Im making roster at the moment and have a question... What are really strong sides of Hedonites comparing to other factions? I know that we have nice summon mechanic( we have profit from any dmg, that cool) and we have nice speed. But what hedonites have that we can outperform our opponent? Who can share with some tips?
P.S. I love Slaangors, but I know that they r too bad for their points cost and sadly that there is lack of synergy between hedonites. Any hope for new units or something more for Slaanesh when NEwborn will come?

[pnkdth]

4 minutes ago, AronQ_ said:

Im making roster at the moment and have a question... What are really strong sides of Hedonites comparing to other factions? I know that we have nice summon mechanic( we have profit from any dmg, that cool) and we have nice speed. But what hedonites have that we can outperform our opponent? Who can share with some tips?
P.S. I love Slaangors, but I know that they r too bad for their points cost and sadly that there is lack of synergy between hedonites. Any hope for new units or something more for Slaanesh when NEwborn will come?

Glutos can be a real MVP. His effects and -1 to hit aura is useful (and it isn't 'wholly within' just 'within' so has quite a reach). 

Seeker Cavalcade is generally accepted as Hedonites most competitive battalion due to extra movement + it makes slickblades better. That 6" activation and pile-in is great, it really lean into our fast and furious advantage.

Lurid Haze is arguably out most competitive host option with its powerful redeploy and stellar command ability (+1 to saves).

Yeah, don't forget those DPs BUT do not compromise your battleplan just to get them. Objective play > DPs. Don't save for something big if you can make impact with with a lesser summon which gets you points. When and what will become an easier choice with experience.

There are some hints of the newborn Slaanesh will appear later in BR series. Unless the great threat being referenced in BR:Teclis actually is Be'lakor rather than Slaanesh. I'm hoping for more host options or something like that (similar to what Nighthaunt got in BR:Be'lakor) to give us both advance is the lore. Maybe even an updated version for all three host + extra options. On the other hand, with 3rd edition being rumoured the newborn Slaanesh might be a part of making Chaos the main big bad again. In other words, no one really knows.

[Enoby]

4 hours ago, AronQ_ said:

Im making roster at the moment and have a question... What are really strong sides of Hedonites comparing to other factions? I know that we have nice summon mechanic( we have profit from any dmg, that cool) and we have nice speed. But what hedonites have that we can outperform our opponent? Who can share with some tips?
P.S. I love Slaangors, but I know that they r too bad for their points cost and sadly that there is lack of synergy between hedonites. Any hope for new units or something more for Slaanesh when NEwborn will come?

I think the things we have going for us are: 

- High volume of attacks, compounded by our allegiance ability 

- Very good summoning that comes easily throughout the game, probably the best summoning in the game 

- We're still very fast, despite the new Lumineth release 

- I think we have the best debuffs in the game, being able to impact hits, wounds, casting (minus and reroll), and bravery often multiple times over. Most other armies tend to cap at a -1 here and there but it's very easy to get to a -2/-1 with us

As @pnkdth says, while our summoning is super good. it's not a key strategy and focussing on it too much is likely a big mistake. I think we are one of the few armies that work well as a well rounded army, rather than spamming army. Even our best units don't work well being spammed too much, and depravity points are a good encouragement to taking small ranged units, tanky units, and damage units that don't aim to obliterate on hit. Despite complaints being that our battletome is overshadowed by other battletomes in power and 'creativity', I think we're really fun to play during the battle. When playing other factions (Slaves to Darkness and old Slaanesh especially, but kind of Lumineth too) I always got the feeling of "I wish I just spammed X unit instead of bringing a varied list, but in our new battletome I've not had that feeling yet. 

As for the newborn, with Belekor and Kroak coming out well after their battletomes were released I think we could very well see a Newborn model at some point. I'd really like to see it in all honesty - kind of like having a mini chaos god on the table that's not as squishy as a greater daemon. I wouldn't count the Newborn out 

[AronQ_]

 

5 hours ago, Enoby said:

I think the things we have going for us are: 

- High volume of attacks, compounded by our allegiance ability 

- Very good summoning that comes easily throughout the game, probably the best summoning in the game 

- We're still very fast, despite the new Lumineth release 

- I think we have the best debuffs in the game, being able to impact hits, wounds, casting (minus and reroll), and bravery often multiple times over. Most other armies tend to cap at a -1 here and there but it's very easy to get to a -2/-1 with us

As @pnkdth says, while our summoning is super good. it's not a key strategy and focussing on it too much is likely a big mistake. I think we are one of the few armies that work well as a well rounded army, rather than spamming army. Even our best units don't work well being spammed too much, and depravity points are a good encouragement to taking small ranged units, tanky units, and damage units that don't aim to obliterate on hit. Despite complaints being that our battletome is overshadowed by other battletomes in power and 'creativity', I think we're really fun to play during the battle. When playing other factions (Slaves to Darkness and old Slaanesh especially, but kind of Lumineth too) I always got the feeling of "I wish I just spammed X unit instead of bringing a varied list, but in our new battletome I've not had that feeling yet. 

As for the newborn, with Belekor and Kroak coming out well after their battletomes were released I think we could very well see a Newborn model at some point. I'd really like to see it in all honesty - kind of like having a mini chaos god on the table that's not as squishy as a greater daemon. I wouldn't count the Newborn out 

Ok thanks man! Very nice explanation. 

[Apinecone]

Not posted in a bit but finally got in a game again, I ended up playing this list -

Spoiler

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- General
- Sinistrous Hand
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Artefact: Cameo of the Dark Prince
- Spell: Born of Damnation
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (400)
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Dark Delusions
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
11 x Blissbarb Archers (160)
10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (340)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
Seeker Cavalcade (140)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123

As despite them being pretty simple I do just like the godseekers.  We played take and hold, my opponent was trying to learn lumineth so had a relatively simple list of mostly spears and bows and some heroes.  The game might not be the best of tests for the list though, as everything went great for me plan wise, and a few mistakes from the lrl ended up playing into everything I wanted to do leading to a turn 3 victory.  Will just give my thoughts on the units here -

Keeper did well, I did risk them a bit on the locus and double turn but it made up for fluffing all my claw attacks and not being able to roll 5+ saves.   Retreat and charge then let me get into the back line and start removing sentential, and +1 to hit did help with how glowie all the lumineth are.

Glotus did really well his unique spell helped trap a unit of wardens out of position and unable to do anything and his speed helped me run down some dawnriders who got a little too close.

Chaos warriors lived, give some look out sir to glutos and annoy me a bit aesthetically but did what I wanted for 90 points.

Blissbarbs pulled in some depravity but as we where on the realm of ulgu their vision was a little hampered so I couldn't generate that many, not that I really had any time to spend them.

Twinsouls did well, gave me a slightly tougher unit that I just used to bully its way into the centre of the table.  Also a big plus to rolling 31 dice.

Slickblades didn't get too much action but ran down the rest of dawnriders so my objective was safe and helped me just overrun the last objective holders with their speed.

@EnobyI really like the black marbling on your glutos, I am going to have to try that myself when I get to painting my own.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Apinecone

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, Apinecone said:

Not posted in a bit but finally got in a game again, I ended up playing this list -

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- General
- Sinistrous Hand
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Artefact: Cameo of the Dark Prince
- Spell: Born of Damnation
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (400)
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Dark Delusions
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
11 x Blissbarb Archers (160)
10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (340)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
Seeker Cavalcade (140)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123

As despite them being pretty simple I do just like the godseekers.  We played take and hold, my opponent was trying to learn lumineth so had a relatively simple list of mostly spears and bows and some heroes.  The game might not be the best of tests for the list though, as everything went great for me plan wise, and a few mistakes from the lrl ended up playing into everything I wanted to do leading to a turn 3 victory.  Will just give my thoughts on the units here -

Keeper did well, I did risk them a bit on the locus and double turn but it made up for fluffing all my claw attacks and not being able to roll 5+ saves.   Retreat and charge then let me get into the back line and start removing sentential, and +1 to hit did help with how glowie all the lumineth are.

Glotus did really well his unique spell helped trap a unit of wardens out of position and unable to do anything and his speed helped me run down some dawnriders who got a little too close.

Chaos warriors lived, give some look out sir to glutos and annoy me a bit aesthetically but did what I wanted for 90 points.

Blissbarbs pulled in some depravity but as we where on the realm of ulgu their vision was a little hampered so I couldn't generate that many, not that I really had any time to spend them.

Twinsouls did well, gave me a slightly tougher unit that I just used to bully its way into the centre of the table.  Also a big plus to rolling 31 dice.

Slickblades didn't get too much action but ran down the rest of dawnriders so my objective was safe and helped me just overrun the last objective holders with their speed.

@EnobyI really like the black marbling on your glutos, I am going to have to try that myself when I get to painting my own.

Glad to hear you managed to get a game - how did you find Slaanesh to play as a whole? while you won, was there anything you'd have done differently or taken differently? 

And thanks - it was surprisingly easy to do A lot of it is just stippling grey to lighter grey and then some small veins with near white grey in the centre of those veins. 

[Apinecone]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Glad to hear you managed to get a game - how did you find Slaanesh to play as a whole? while you won, was there anything you'd have done differently or taken differently? 

And thanks - it was surprisingly easy to do A lot of it is just stippling grey to lighter grey and then some small veins with near white grey in the centre of those veins. 

I enjoy playing as slaanesh but it does feel like we are missing a couple of things. Never feels like I have enough points and I do wish we had more sub allegiances and they where a little more impactful(outside of lurid haze). I do still have fun with them and do feel like I can win games, that is always the most important point.

It is a little hard to say what I would do differently without seeing how the other player would have changed their deployment and tactics but I was happy with the key plan of going for the quick victory the speed advantage and glutos's spell really helps there. For now I am happy with this set up, I might end up making small changes but given how tight points as it is hard to see how. I don't see it getting me any top tables with this list but given the state of things outside I don't think I will have to care about that till after 3.0 and any changes that brings.

Also good too know marbling isn't too hard, will have to look up a tutorial near the time but it is a great effect.

[AngryPanda]

I reached out to a few figures in the community (Goonhammer, Miniwargaming, The Honest Wargamer, etc.) over the weekend via the contact us info on their websites or media pages. I sent a polite message with the survey linked, while briefly explaining premise behind the survey and how we want to gauge feedback from the book in a healthy manner; I’ll post any updates if I hear back from them. 

[LeonBox]

Having just fully finished Glutos, something I'd suggest doing to make your model a little more dynamic: magnetise Priestess Dolece, Painbringer Kyazu and Lashmaster Vhyssk. It's super easy to do and it's pretty cool to be able to add/remove models according to the number of wounds allocated to Glutos. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by LeonBox

[Vurtias]

Do Hellstriders curently have much of a place in our lists? Ignoring the points changes im not sure if the weapon changes combined with a plethora of fast cavalry options in the book currently make them a fairly lukewarm take. Are small 5 person blobs of claw-spears doing better still than whip units, or is taking whips in large units actually viable these days?

[LeonBox]

7 minutes ago, Vurtias said:

Do Hellstriders curently have much of a place in our lists? Ignoring the points changes im not sure if the weapon changes combined with a plethora of fast cavalry options in the book currently make them a fairly lukewarm take. Are small 5 person blobs of claw-spears doing better still than whip units, or is taking whips in large units actually viable these days?

I think the consensus is that they were already mediocre before the points hike and are a very unattractive choice now. They're at least battleline again, but I'm not sure that makes them particularly viable over, say, 5-man Chaos Warrior blocks who have the virtue of being both cheap and tanky. 

[Enoby]

4 hours ago, Apinecone said:

enjoy playing as slaanesh but it does feel like we are missing a couple of things. Never feels like I have enough points and I do wish we had more sub allegiances and they where a little more impactful(outside of lurid haze). I do still have fun with them and do feel like I can win games, that is always the most important point.

Hopefully we see a change in the points soon I also hope that, if GW are listening, we see some more hosts or sub hosts in White Dwarf and other supplements. I can actually imagine Slaangors getting a rewrite in a White Dwarf.

12 minutes ago, Vurtias said:

Do Hellstriders curently have much of a place in our lists? Ignoring the points changes im not sure if the weapon changes combined with a plethora of fast cavalry options in the book currently make them a fairly lukewarm take. Are small 5 person blobs of claw-spears doing better still than whip units, or is taking whips in large units actually viable these days?

I think, at 100-110 points they'd be our top battleline pick over chaos warriors - especially when considering them in Seeker Cavalcade (really cutting down drops). I think they're the most strangely costed unit in the book besides Slaangors (which are just weird all around). 

If they come down 40-50 points, they'll have a good place again as a screen and objective capper.

[dicebod]

OH MY DARK GODS.

Coming w/ BR Kragnos, the twin offspring of Slaanesh...https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/19/quiz-which-of-these-new-slaaneshi-daemons-are-you

 

[Enoby]

I'm not complaining, this is a fantastic pair, but I did not expect new models so quickly!

@AronQ_ the newborn is an early arrival, it seems.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Enoby

[dicebod]

They really make it sound like the Talon is going to be very killy (I hope)...perhaps that can make up for the wimpiness afflicting the current KoS.

@Enoby it is crazy this is coming out so soon, but I have to keep reminding myself that the HoS tome was likely due out like this time LAST year.

[Twisted Firaun]

10 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I'm not complaining, this is a fantastic pair, but I did not expect new models so quickly!

@AronQ_ the newborn is an early arrival, it seems.

Did anyone else think "Murder-Peacocks" or is that just me?

[zombiepiratexxx]

These are stunning and no mistakes.