AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[CB42]

17 minutes ago, Arcce said:

Win Con vs HoS seems to be assassinate their heroes and/or weather their attacks with tankiness and hit back hard (fyreslayers and maybe Nurgle).

Easier said than done. 

If you hit hard and have a lot of bodies, you can also kill the heroes on one half of the board and then just clog up movement to slow the surviving / summoned Slaanesh units from reaching the half of the board you now control. I’ve done this with my alpha strike Slaanesh against summoning Slaanesh using my Ungors and summoned Daemonettes to screen off the newly captured left side of the board, and I’ve also seen it done by seraphon, just summoning or teleporting tons of skinks into multiple layers of screens cutting off the right side of the board.

 

Heavy shooting armies with good screens can just keep killing keepers as they get resummoned.

 

You can also out drop them, give them first turn, screen hard with your army more than 3” back from your screen (since Slaanesh can only activate a second time if they’re within 3” of an enemy), then hit them hard on your turn. This works especially well if you have some form of strike first on your turn or make them strike last or activate to fight from 6” away (FEC, Khorne, Daughters, Sylvaneth, BoC with Taurus, Nighthaunt with spell), but you can work around the locus, like charging a small unit and staying 3.1” from the Keeper, and then piling into the Keeper when you fight.

 

Then, of course, there are missions like Scorched Earth and Better Part of Valour where you can burn objectives and win the game if you get ahead early, or Relocation orb where if you get lucky with priority rolls turns 3-5, it can be impossible for someone to come back.

 

Obviously slaanesh is strong, but between playing the mission and playing around the locus and summoning, there are ways to beat them with most armies.

[whispersofblood]

On 8/1/2019 at 2:13 PM, kozokus said:

I guess everyone has his own definition of fun™. Mine would be, ending the game happy, regardless of the issue of the game, because you played the game. (And i am the kind of guy that loves to play with or against Dredge/Storm/SnT in MTG)

Sure, when Nagash hit AoS V2, it was called BATSHITOPWTFBBQLOL, yet it doesn't won that much tournaments and people adapted to the matchup by playing against the repop.  I really enjoyed trying idoneth vs 3++ dragonzombies and dusty hands grand daddy.  same happened for DoK and Dwarfs.

Yet i haven't found the solution for Slaanesh.  The "Learn to play" argument is a bit naïve and people often overestimate the importance of beeing a good general in this game compared to having an "overthetop" battletome. You might be Kasparov, you will never beat an average HoS player while playing a Destruction army (Except maybe that fancy endless-spell grot army).

Anyway, i am all ears on the subject to "How to beat SheWhoThirst" if you have any general advices to share, usable by anyone (other than"just-play-the-objectives, you grot").

Again, the game is the battleplan though.

The real problem is that people aren't actually playing the game, its like if you just focus on War in Risk its a path you *can* take to win the game but its definetly not optimal if you are playing against anyone with some experience.

They key to playing a battleplan against HoS starts at the strategy phase, you have to clearly identify how you are going to win the game. Is it control the majority of objectives early on and sacrifice them over the remaining turns? Is it let the HoS split up their army to take the objectives and then fight the HoS piecemeal?

Because a HoS army can build momentum very quickly its important to disrupt their momentum, and make sure you stick to your plan. Charging and killing and seemingly vulnerable KoS because it is within reach without support may not be the best move. You have to identify more than what is on the board right now, things like how many Depravity points does the player have, where on the board are his heroes, who's turn is next, is their a priority roll coming up.

These are important because it is very likely that the KoS is coming back at the bottom of your opponent's movement phase. Since you can't kill the KoS generally speaking without them fighting, it might just be better to claim the objective or make your move towards the objective and let the KoS charge you. That way you kill the model in his combat phase and you get to play your turn without a KoS on the board. Or maybe his heroes are in non-optimal positions to summon, and you jump on the KoS so that the opponent has to wait a turn to summon or summons into a non-optimal position. 

That is how you must be thinking, you can just roll into a HoS army and kill it and hope for the best after they summon. That being said, since I started playing HoS I've been focusing on summoning where and when I want to, which means stopping people purposely or accidentally doing the very things I'm telling you to do. Playing against HoS is probably more of a strategy and tactical level match then people are willing to admit to themselves. But, realistically if you look at the Warscrolls and point costs, the army isn't really all that impressive, a ton of models are 3+/4+ at best, they do on average throw a decent amount of dice about, but also heavily rely on rend -1. There isn't a ton of mortal wounds, and the battalion that does give MW to only Daemonettes is expensive and doesn't really lower your drop count since you need a lot of heroes. The models are not durable at all, so targeting objectives and keeping your models outside of 6" of a hero when you charge is the best strategy to get points on the board. Do not trade! Trading with HoS is a fast way to lose the game, since I will just summon the right unit I need in the context of the game. maybe heroes, seekers, fiends or 10/20/30 daemonettes. 

[kozokus]

I did maths and souvenirs-analysis. I admit i was wrong on most things i said.

Thanks for the advices.

[Redking]

My daughter has been interested in painting and trying to play AoS, so she got the Slaanesh half of Wrath and Rapture.  While she is not allowed to read the fluff, she has started painting and will hopefully have enough to play soon.  I’m getting her a start collecting, which should get her to 1k points.  I haven’t gotten the book, yet, but I’m thinking about the following:

• Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot
• Infernal Enrapturess
• 10x Daemonettes
• 5x Hellstriders with Hellscourges
• 5x Seekers
• 3x Fiends

This takes her to 900 points and gives her 10 Daemonettes to summon.  What would be the best endless spell to run?  Dreadful Visage or Wheels of Excurtiation?

She doesn’t like the Hellstrider models, so we are going to convert them using Daughters of Khaine bits and Dark Eldar Wych legs to replace the Daemonette feet.  Also, would Hellscourges be good or Clawspears?

Thanks

[Enoby]

4 hours ago, Redking said:

Also, would Hellscourges be good or Clawspears?

I've found clawspears best in 99% of cases. 

 

4 hours ago, Redking said:

What would be the best endless spell to run?  Dreadful Visage or Wheels of Excurtiation?

I prefer the wheels, but both are decent. I prefer the wheels so I can launch them at wizards hiding out of charging range.  

[whispersofblood]

5 hours ago, Enoby said:

I've found clawspears best in 99% of cases. 

 

I prefer the wheels, but both are decent. I prefer the wheels so I can launch them at wizards hiding out of charging range.  

Dreadful visage is significantly harder to cast.

Clawspears are best at the current price.

[Saiken]

I was wondering, has anyone tried lists revolving around Archaon ?

What could that look like ?

[whispersofblood]

4 hours ago, Saiken said:

I was wondering, has anyone tried lists revolving around Archaon ?

What could that look like ?

Yeah I don't know if there is anything there tbh. Archaon doesn't get much from being Slaanesh, don't have many things that proc off of the Slaanesh Keyword, other than Battle Traits and Locus needs Hedonite.

It probably looks like a Slaves to Darkness army, with 1 or 2 Epitome, slightly better combat and summoning. 

[Overread]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/08/armies-of-legend-ricki-smiths-sylvaanesh/

 

Some really neat conversion ideas and army from Ricki on the GW website - a neat blend of Sylvanath and Slaanesh!

[AronQ]

Hello everyone! Does hedonites of Slaanesh good vs Daughters of Khaine? What is the good sides of Slaaneshi army? Sorry, Im newplayer.

[Ratrek]

On 8/2/2019 at 6:36 AM, CB42 said:

Heavy shooting armies with good screens can just keep killing keepers as they get resummoned.

Sorry for the side related question, but what does such an army look like?

I've been playing Nesh lately and one of my mates loves shooting armies but seems to think they're all garbage. I'd like to help him out even if it's to my detriment.

[Rentar]

5 hours ago, Ratrek said:

Sorry for the side related question, but what does such an army look like?

I've been playing Nesh lately and one of my mates loves shooting armies but seems to think they're all garbage. I'd like to help him out even if it's to my detriment.

Skyre from Skaven, Anvilstrike (Anvils of Heldenhammer Chamber for Stormcast Eternals running a battery of Longstrikes), arguably some weirder Tzeentch builds (though those won't work against most armies so I'd discount them), Freeguild, any Order army grabbing Ironweld Arsenal as allies, Legion of Azgorh (though they are kinda weak in general).

 

[Enoby]

13 hours ago, AronQ said:

Hello everyone! Does hedonites of Slaanesh good vs Daughters of Khaine? What is the good sides of Slaaneshi army? Sorry, Im newplayer.

Couldn't tell you about DoK (though I imagine we stand a better chance than most), but as an army Slaanesh has many strong sides, such as being incredibly fast, having access to the best summoning in the game, their heroes being very good in combat (because they can make their enemies strike last), and we have access to a wide range of models (as we can take Slaves to Darkness as well as Beasts of Chaos).

[spenson]

From the few games I've played, DoK is one of the hardest matchup when you play Slaanesh. Their heroes are very well protected, the battlelines have only 1 wound and they have some nasty surprises like Morathi. 

Edited August 10, 2019 by spenson

[CB42]

15 hours ago, Ratrek said:

Sorry for the side related question, but what does such an army look like?

I've been playing Nesh lately and one of my mates loves shooting armies but seems to think they're all garbage. I'd like to help him out even if it's to my detriment.

Stormcast ballistas and longstrikes; Seraphon Thunderquake Starhost; Skaven warp lightning cannons or jezzails (or both); Kharadron overlords with a unit of 40 arkanauts buffed with an aetherkhemist and using only light skyhooks; Bonesplittas arrowboy spam in a Kunnin Rukk (see Team England’s lists at ETC this year) (likely to be changed soon); Freeguild crossbowmen with Tau Overwatch (see Team america’s roster at ETC) (likely to be changed soon).

[Lord Krungharr]

On 8/5/2019 at 4:02 AM, Saiken said:

I was wondering, has anyone tried lists revolving around Archaon ?

What could that look like ?

I have used Slaanesh Archaon (before the Hedonites book) with a Lord on Daemonic mount and regular foot Lord, so he can run and charge (CP for 6") and attack twice in the combat phase.  That was pretty awesome, and I don't have the new Slaanesh book so I imagine it could be even more awesome now.  But certainly a mortals focused Slaanesh army.

[NurglesFirstChosen]

16 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I have used Slaanesh Archaon (before the Hedonites book) with a Lord on Daemonic mount and regular foot Lord, so he can run and charge (CP for 6") and attack twice in the combat phase.  That was pretty awesome, and I don't have the new Slaanesh book so I imagine it could be even more awesome now.  But certainly a mortals focused Slaanesh army.

Unfortunately there’s no longer anything that can buff Archaon to activate twice in the combat phase 

[Luke1705]

I’ve heard that godseekers can get +3” to their charge when units are summoned in somehow. Did I misunderstand this or how does that work?

[Enoby]

10 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:

I’ve heard that godseekers can get +3” to their charge when units are summoned in somehow. Did I misunderstand this or how does that work?

Perhaps the chronomatics cogs?

[Lord Krungharr]

3 hours ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

Unfortunately there’s no longer anything that can buff Archaon to activate twice in the combat phase 

Aw snap, I didn’t see the Lord of Slaanesh on daemonic mount anywhere in the app!

oh wow and the Keeper only works on Hedonites.   Back to the drawing board ....

Edited August 11, 2019 by Lord Krungharr
Added finding on keeper.

[Rentar]

1 hour ago, Luke1705 said:

I’ve heard that godseekers can get +3” to their charge when units are summoned in somehow. Did I misunderstand this or how does that work?

Only way is using Cogs, as Enoby pointed out.

[AronQ]

Hello hedonites-mates! I wonder, how to play vs Khorne players? Can you share with your tactics, please! Do hedonites  good vs Khorne? Thanks for attention.

Edited August 11, 2019 by AronQ

[Enoby]

2 hours ago, AronQ said:

Hello hedonites-mates! I wonder, how to play vs Khorne players? Can you share with your tactics, please! Do hedonites  good vs Khorne? Thanks for attention.

We pretty much hard counter Khorne in my experience; they only thing that really helps them is the Bloodthirster battalion that can bypass our strike last ability. 

[Luke1705]

5 hours ago, Enoby said:

We pretty much hard counter Khorne in my experience; they only thing that really helps them is the Bloodthirster battalion that can bypass our strike last ability. 

As a khorne player I can 100% confirm that this is the only way to beat Slaanesh.

Khorne also has a command ability to pile from 6” which is an AOE ability and that helps a lot too.

How to beat them is basically just with good screening or through attrition of summoning. Slaanesh summoning is much better than Khorne summoning

Edited August 12, 2019 by Luke1705

[SwampHeart]

On 8/10/2019 at 10:45 AM, spenson said:

From the few games I've played, DoK is one of the hardest matchup when you play Slaanesh. Their heroes are very well protected, the battlelines have only 1 wound and they have some nasty surprises like Morathi. 

DoK is almost exclusively why I take Wheels of Excruciaton  - it is such a potent spell against DoK and especially their support heroes.