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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion


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3 minutes ago, Overread said:

Well to be fair Demon armies already have gods - the Greater Demons and Plague Lords are basically their equivalents. Though it would be neat to see a new big slaanesh beasty!

Yeah, the greater daemons kind of fitting for the role, but they're not quite 'god' level in stats. They're strong, but more like a Vampire Lord on Zombie dragon than Nagash.

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In general Greater Demons have a lot of variety in power to almost godlike. Also I'd say that the Chaos Gods are far more powerful than regular AoS gods in general. Considering it took 4 Aelf Gods to contain Slaanesh and they can't even destroy Slaanesh. Meanwhile we've already seen the Mortal Realms lose a god or two do death and war. 

 

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I think the newborn is going to be the "mortal" special character. Its birth is a by the book mythology story about the rise of a demi-god/hero who is also the child of a god.

Considering the position the hedonites are in they need a big leader to unite them in some fashion.

Edited by shinros
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11 hours ago, carnith said:

Daemonettes from what I hear are unchanged. Hellstriders we know got some changes, but yet to see exactly what in full, but nerfed in battleline status which really hurts. 

I am guessing it's because some Slaanesh mortals and Slaangors are coming who will take the battleline role. 

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I actually kind of think hellstriders "lost" battle line status because the folks who made the new pitched battle profile page copy pasted from the battle tome instead of the GHB which is what made them battle line.

I don't think anything has ever lost battle line status in AOS as far as I can think.

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4 hours ago, herohammer said:

I actually kind of think hellstriders "lost" battle line status because the folks who made the new pitched battle profile page copy pasted from the battle tome instead of the GHB which is what made them battle line.

I don't think anything has ever lost battle line status in AOS as far as I can think.

Hellstriders are battleline in the battle tome. It's another nerf.

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My bad. You are right. I was thinking of vargheists I think.

Still wouldn’t be surprised if it is an error. The cities of sigmar factions in the Marathi book have no spell lores and the chaos faction has no artifacts so mistakes have been made in the new rules more generally.

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I know there are others in greater need than us, but I am hoping we get another book soon. Mostly just to sort out the 'mess' we have now. And by 'mess' I mean the tilt towards heroes, and lack of synergy (pretty much everything is a one man army and the buffs tend to be 'fight twice'). The biggest issue being how tilted our allegiance abilities are towards heroes to the point it feels like you're handicapping yourself if you take things like fiends.

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If anything everything outside of leaders is fairly "ok to nicely" balanced. If we fixed that whole depravity and heroes focus I think the tome would come together really well as being quite fairly in balance. And it would open up so many more options. From Chariot heavy armies with seekers going for a full speed build; through to demon or fiend heavy forces and such. 

Heck I own 9 of those fiends (and 7 of the old metal kind that I am very slowly rebasing) and would love an excuse to put them on the table and summon them without feeling like I know I'm intentionally playing a weaker army. 

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My hope at this point for a new tome is some way to make hellstriders battleline, and for more dedicated mortal units. There's a great opportunity for the Syll'Esskan host to get codified as something baseline, with an ability that allows for slaanesh marked mortal S2D units to gain the hedonite keyword, and for buffs from slaanesh marked S2D to treat hedonites as slaanesh S2D. Order has some major power pieces that aren't tied to anything beyond the Order keyword, and it's really irritating that Chaos (and maybe Destruction, though I'm less familiar) is so bogged down with multiple keyword restrictions by comparison. 

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2 hours ago, Enoby said:

Hellstriders with claw spears have lost the ability to get +1 attack, traded for +1 damage on their claw when they charge

I'm not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, it definitely encourages running multiple smaller units, on the other hand it sort of runs counter to the benefits of the seeker cavalcade battalion. Combined with the removal of the battleline status, it's a pretty significant departure from where they stood previously in our repertoire. The -1 to hit on the charge I've heard the hellscourges provide now does offer way more than that option had previously though, so I'm happy to see that our toolbox has been made broader, even if our battleline options (and ability to reduce drops in an efficient way) have narrowed significantly.

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4 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

I'm not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, it definitely encourages running multiple smaller units, on the other hand it sort of runs counter to the benefits of the seeker cavalcade battalion. Combined with the removal of the battleline status, it's a pretty significant departure from where they stood previously in our repertoire. The -1 to hit on the charge I've heard the hellscourges provide now does offer way more than that option had previously though, so I'm happy to see that our toolbox has been made broader, even if our battleline options (and ability to reduce drops in an efficient way) have narrowed significantly.

I like that it helps give a clearer definition between use for scourges and spears. If you want to run multiple small units that are charging a lot then you can run the spears. If you want bigger units then the scourges with their mass of attacks and long reach will be a better bet. I'm pretty happy they seem to have found a way to make them both work but in different situations.

I'm still hoping that the removal of battleline was just a typo or something since that's going to have a pretty big impact on my list building. Worst case I can always just run 2 units of marauder horsemen in their place but that'd definitely be a trade down. 

Edited by Grimrock
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20 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

My hope at this point for a new tome is some way to make hellstriders battleline, and for more dedicated mortal units. There's a great opportunity for the Syll'Esskan host to get codified as something baseline, with an ability that allows for slaanesh marked mortal S2D units to gain the hedonite keyword, and for buffs from slaanesh marked S2D to treat hedonites as slaanesh S2D. Order has some major power pieces that aren't tied to anything beyond the Order keyword, and it's really irritating that Chaos (and maybe Destruction, though I'm less familiar) is so bogged down with multiple keyword restrictions by comparison. 

This is sensible and needed, therefore I am 95% sure that GW is not going to do it.

Honestly, Chaos needs only 8 keywords: 5 for gods and undivided and mortal/beast/daemon. STD should be just MORTAL, HEDONITE should be just SLAANESH etc.

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10 hours ago, Grimrock said:

I like that it helps give a clearer definition between use for scourges and spears. If you want to run multiple small units that are charging a lot then you can run the spears. If you want bigger units then the scourges with their mass of attacks and long reach will be a better bet. I'm pretty happy they seem to have found a way to make them both work but in different situations.

I'm still hoping that the removal of battleline was just a typo or something since that's going to have a pretty big impact on my list building. Worst case I can always just run 2 units of marauder horsemen in their place but that'd definitely be a trade down. 

Unfortunately marauder horsemen are only battleline in Slaves to Darkness. We've basically lost our crown as the force with the fastest battleline objective grabbers, which really runs counter to our previous role. I'm really hoping it's an oversight, but I don't expect that to be the case.

As to the hellscourges, I actually don't really see the multiple attacks as something to capitalize on, and I'll probably be running a few small units of both, with hellscourges as basically a defensive debuff where I need it on the charge and the spears as an extra punch for my larger melee blocks. Daemonettes at 300 make it far more worthwhile to have a large block of 30 to lock opponents into melee and be our primary damage dealers, with small units of hellstriders running around to provide support as needed where we need it. If the hellscourge bonus lasted longer than the turn you charged it would be worth it to run big squads of hellscourges as an anvil, but I'm not convinced that would be as useful as it seems.

Weirdly, I feel like this almost gives chaos warriors a more defined role as tough anvil units to give us something to stick to the enemy while the hellstriders, chariots and seekers do their thing, though I'm not sure they do this so much better than daemonettes or marauders to justify the loss of damage output.

Edited by CeleFAZE
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Welp, just saw the new hellstriders scrolls, and the scourges are... less useful than I have thought. The ability only affects attacks against the hellstriders themselves, and only on the turn they charge, which severely limits their utility. It looks like the only way to really make much use of them is as a mobile tie-up unit for things you really don't want to eat through something more important. I'm kind of perplexed as to how best to really utilize them, but as I have 15 with spears already I suppose it's worth it to try that loadout with the 10 from the new box and see how it goes.

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8 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

Welp, just saw the new hellstriders scrolls, and the scourges are... less useful than I have thought. The ability only affects attacks against the hellstriders themselves, and only on the turn they charge, which severely limits their utility. It looks like the only way to really make much use of them is as a mobile tie-up unit for things you really don't want to eat through something more important. I'm kind of perplexed as to how best to really utilize them, but as I have 15 with spears already I suppose it's worth it to try that loadout with the 10 from the new box and see how it goes.

I've used a 10 man squad when the book came out, but that was as battleline. I'd rather have Chaos Knights for a few more points, and it fits in pleasure bound for low drops.

I suppose on the charge 10 with the full RR to hit to fish for 6s might, generate some damage, but... meh

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The problem with assuming full rerolls is that... Lord of Pain ain't reaching them anytime soon. I kinda wish we got our banners back from before the tome. Or make it so whips have the banner and spears have the icon and make them do different things. As it is right now, you can't have both with one kit, so might as well make them something useful. 

Overall, now I end up shelving my hellstriders, they were battleline for the purpose of capturing objectives and being quick, now they aren't battleline. Going back to daemonettes or finally buying warriors. Maybe in Slaanesh 2.0, we get some mortal factions and hellstriders are back with some buffs, but they just feel... so lackluster now. 

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