AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[whispersofblood]

34 minutes ago, CB42 said:

Man, I hope this doesn’t get treated as legal for tournaments. It’s just so absurdly strong that I’d feel obligated to switch to it for tournaments, if only to keep up with the power creep of other Slaanesh players doing the same.

I don't think it's that strong. You can't take any of the wsb in the book, no mortal heroes have locus, you can't excess to violence anything in battalions. To get d6 CMD points you have to be what at least 7 drops? 

No traits, no Artefacts, this has all the makings of a flop. If the host ability wasn't strong it would be basically pointless.

[CB42]

2 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

I don't think it's that strong. You can't take any of the wsb in the book, no mortal heroes have locus, you can't excess to violence anything in battalions. To get d6 CMD points you have to be what at least 7 drops? 

No traits, no Artefacts, this has all the makings of a flop. If the host ability wasn't strong it would be basically pointless.

Ulgu, SyllEsske host.

Keeper, Keeper, Shalaxi, Syll’Esske, Epitome, Hellstrider x 4, Seeker Cavalcade. Give one Keeper Doppelgänger Cloak, give the Epitome Sword of Judgment. Start with 2+D3 cp turn 1 and generate infinite depravity as you push forward. You can give up a command trait in exchange for double depravity.

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

I don't think it's that strong. You can't take any of the wsb in the book, no mortal heroes have locus, you can't excess to violence anything in battalions. To get d6 CMD points you have to be what at least 7 drops? 

No traits, no Artefacts, this has all the makings of a flop. If the host ability wasn't strong it would be basically pointless.

While I don't think the new host is an instant take, I would say it's better than you're giving it credit for. 

The one drop list isn't that hard to make (and you stick some keepers in that, and min battleline hellstriders in the seeker cavalcade). Some of the best artifacts we have are realm artefacts so no issue there (e.g. thermalrider clock). We really only use Excess of Violence on Keepers from what I've seen, so that's not an issue. 

In tax, it requires 380 points of battalions, 300 pts of Hellstriders (which you were probably going to take anyway), 320 chaos knights, 140 chaos lord on mount, and 200 S'E for a total of 1340. You can fit a Keeper, Epitome, and Cogs in there if you want and have an okay 1 drop list. Probably won't win a tournament, but is a considerable help to mortal Slaanesh and would likely do a lot in casual play. 

[whispersofblood]

I pretty specifically didn't say it was bad. Just outlined what you are trading. 

Also that list isn't significantly different from what is already being played. Invaders has superior CP generation anyway.

So really the substantive difference is the depravity generation which probably buffs the factions weakness to shooting. Which explains the lack of Sybarites. 

To summarize it doesn't seem drastically out of proportion.

[Holy_Diver]

34 minutes ago, CB42 said:

Ulgu, SyllEsske host.

Keeper, Keeper, Shalaxi, Syll’Esske, Epitome, Hellstrider x 4, Seeker Cavalcade. Give one Keeper Doppelgänger Cloak, give the Epitome Sword of Judgment. Start with 2+D3 cp turn 1 and generate infinite depravity as you push forward. You can give up a command trait in exchange for double depravity.

Interessting... brainstorming on a possible list, I've thinked that:

1x Keeper
1x Soulfeaster
1x Shalaxi
1x Enrapturness

Devout battallion:
Syll'Eske
1x Warshrine
3x5 Warriors

1990/2000

5 drops, 2+D3 command points first turn and a lot to say to the enemy.

[decker_cky]

50 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

Interessting... brainstorming on a possible list, I've thinked that:

1x Keeper
1x Soulfeaster
1x Shalaxi
1x Enrapturness

Devout battallion:
Syll'Eske
1x Warshrine
3x5 Warriors

1990/2000

5 drops, 2+D3 command points first turn and a lot to say to the enemy.

Doesn't the Devout Supplicants require a MORTAL SLAANESH HERO? I haven't seen the text clearly, but I assume it does to mirror Vengeful Throng.  Syll'Eske is only mortal for the purpose of calculating the number of mortal and daemon units.

[Holy_Diver]

3 hours ago, decker_cky said:

Doesn't the Devout Supplicants require a MORTAL SLAANESH HERO? I haven't seen the text clearly, but I assume it does to mirror Vengeful Throng.  Syll'Eske is only mortal for the purpose of calculating the number of mortal and daemon units.

Damn, me too (didn't read clearly, bad source) 😅 At least talkin about it helps to notice mistakes.

So, for now seems the best way to play the host is with the Cavalcade, like CB42 said.

[decker_cky]

2 hours ago, Holy_Diver said:

Damn, me too (didn't read clearly, bad source) 😅 At least talkin about it helps to notice mistakes.

So, for now seems the best way to play the host is with the Cavalcade, like CB42 said.

I'm wondering if there's a trick available with sorcerors on manticores. 200 pts for 12 wounds generating double depravity for wounds suffered, on a caster that can generate depravity at range, must be one of the best value summoning engines in the game. If you ignore the matching mortals/daemons (a bit of a trap IMO), you can make a one drop army that starts the game with 3 CP (3 battalions), generates a bonus CP each turn, and doesn't become CP hungry until the second wave starts from summoning.

Something along this framework: 

 

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (200)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (200)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (200)
Syll'Esske, the Vengeful Allegiance (200)
The Contorted Epitome (200)

Battleline

Units
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (100)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (100)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (100)

Battalions
Seeker Cavalcade (140)

Total: 1760 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

Edited October 16, 2019 by decker_cky

[whispersofblood]

Only one Sorcerer lord generates DP from range, so maybe 3 is excessive. However this might be a good place for Archaon.

[Sobakaa]

Initially i was vert skeptical, but with all the shooting i'm facing in local meta with the cities, seraphon and shootcasts the double depravity might just be the answer. Amount of drops isn't all that critical.

[Luke1705]

22 hours ago, CB42 said:

Ulgu, SyllEsske host.

Keeper, Keeper, Shalaxi, Syll’Esske, Epitome, Hellstrider x 4, Seeker Cavalcade. Give one Keeper Doppelgänger Cloak, give the Epitome Sword of Judgment. Start with 2+D3 cp turn 1 and generate infinite depravity as you push forward. You can give up a command trait in exchange for double depravity.

Basically what I came up with except with one less seeker squad and no epitome to get a bunch of endless spells, but I like your version more. I don't want to have to get more hellstriders but including the epitome is a big win.  That extra depravity is huge and being 5 drop vs 6 drop is mostly meh. I think going down to 4 drops is a lot more important.

The only thing I wonder is how plausible it will be to keep syll'esske within 12" to proc the double depravity while also hiding behind the pallisade when against shooting armies.  Will have to see, but I'm definitely thinking this is the way to go going forwards.

Also how could this not be matched play legal? It has points.

[CB42]

1 hour ago, Luke1705 said:

Also how could this not be matched play legal? It has points.

The Fyreslayers White Dwarf has points but is still not matched play legal because one of the heroes was listed with points but no battle role, which invalidated the whole thing. And any White Dwarfs with points from before the GHB 2019 are not matched play legal, so if this is matched play legal it is only legal until the next time a GHB or similar announces that stuff not in the GHB is invalidated.

So I'd say it looks like it's probably legal to use until June 2020, unless GW switches to a different points update schedule and invalidates things in December rather than in June.

1 hour ago, Luke1705 said:

The only thing I wonder is how plausible it will be to keep syll'esske within 12" to proc the double depravity while also hiding behind the pallisade when against shooting armies.  Will have to see, but I'm definitely thinking this is the way to go going forwards.

Adding Palisades means losing units and I'd rather keep the Epitome and Hellstrider over the endless spells you mentioned. In my experience, unless Syll'esske were to be physically touching the center of the palisades, it's too easy for shooting units to move to get LOS. And even then, Syll's whip is so long that there's a non-zero chance that shooting units will be able to get LOS anyways on the tip of the whip, no matter how you position Syll'Esske.

[Sobakaa]

Just have to tank it hoping that either syll's death will allow keepers to advance or keepers will die generating tons of depravity, i guess.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

This has been a point of contention in my local group, is the sylleskkian host legal for matched play? If not then why give their unique battallions points if they're banned in the one format that uses points?

[Enoby]

Just now, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

This has been a point of contention in my local group, is the sylleskkian host legal for matched play? If not then why give their unique battallions points if they're banned in the one format that uses points?

There's no fully official consensus, but there's no reason why not and we do have this:  

[Sobakaa]

The other issue with the new Host is how the hell do i generate enough cp for all the keepers and shalaxi to fight twice... Assuming CB42's list or similar we start with 4cp average and with no sybarites it's just +1 per turn on subsequent turns I'm so used to 2+ per turn from all the artifacts and sybarites.

[Holy_Diver]

May the combo "Ethereal Amulet + Ragged Cloak double Keeper" put more pressure on a shooting list? (and we can combine the ethereal keeper with cogs or a sorcerer lord)

Just a curiosity:  how does one of the most played and performing armies of the moment have only 47 pages of discussion? 😅

[Enoby]

23 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

May the combo "Ethereal Amulet + Ragged Cloak double Keeper" put more pressure on a shooting list? (and we can combine the ethereal keeper with cogs or a sorcerer lord)

Just a curiosity:  how does one of the most played and performing armies of the moment have only 47 pages of discussion? 😅

Hmmm, always been unsure on the ethereal amulet - seems our 4+ save isn't really that reliable with or without it, at least imo.

There was an older thread with 100 pages of discussion (moved after we got the new book), so it's more like 147 pages at this point 😛 

[Sobakaa]

4 hours ago, Holy_Diver said:

Just a curiosity:  how does one of the most played and performing armies of the moment have only 47 pages of discussion? 😅

I feel like the book doesn't offer too much variety - combos were all discussed on first 20 pages and now there's not much to passionately talk about. Look at Daughters of Khaine - one of the most performing armies as well and it only has 59 pages of discussions, since the obvious combos were all found already and the faction itself doesn't have an influx of new players who'd keep asking the same stuff over and over boosting the page count.

Mini battle report with a new Host - played CB42's list against lizardmen on 4 shooty monsters, took 1st turn since i noticed a juicy 6" pile in opportunity. Got carried away with pile ins on keepers and ended up more than 12" from Syll. Shooty stuff ended up locked with hellstriders for a turn so it was fine but then the opponent took a double and i lost 2 keepers out of 3. Combined with the fact that he stuffed every objective with a bunch of skinks and i was only sitting on ~37 depravity i decided to concede.

Shameful performance, really, since the whole point was to test that double depravity and i ended up not using it due to a misplay. On the bright side i had enough cp for the first turn so i guess lack of Sybarites isn't that huge.

[AronQ]

Hello hedonites! I have a questions, what is the strong sides of hedonites of Slaanesh, should I have Shalaxi or standard Keeper? And does hedonites good vs flesh-eater courts?

[whispersofblood]

12 hours ago, Holy_Diver said:

May the combo "Ethereal Amulet + Ragged Cloak double Keeper" put more pressure on a shooting list? (and we can combine the ethereal keeper with cogs or a sorcerer lord)

Just a curiosity:  how does one of the most played and performing armies of the moment have only 47 pages of discussion? 😅

This is just what happens until someone innovates and does well at an event. Nothing to worry about.

[Enoby]

2 hours ago, AronQ said:

Hello hedonites! I have a questions, what is the strong sides of hedonites of Slaanesh, should I have Shalaxi or standard Keeper? And does hedonites good vs flesh-eater courts?

A standard keeper is better and is very very strong, but Shalaxi isn't bad on the side - but probably taking the place of a 3rd keeper. HoS, from what I know, can do well against any army, including FEC - just be clever with your screens (use hellstriders for cheap but useful battleline). 

[kozokus]

Hello you dirty drepraved people.

I sometimes see the inclusion of an exalted hero of Slaanesh but i miss the point, and fail to obtain an answer by myself. can someone educate me?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Hello you dirty drepraved people.

I sometimes see the inclusion of an exalted hero of Slaanesh but i miss the point, and fail to obtain an answer by myself. can someone educate me?

 

Thanks in advance.

He's our cheapest hero option, and is very small so we can hide him away - his only purpose is to hide out of line of sight and act as a summoning beacon.

[Piether]

I don't know if this topic is already finished but I was wondering about building my slaanesh army. In the battletome is written that when you have chosen your host your army must contain a number of battalions. 

Like a Godseekers host must contain 0-2 epicurean revellers and 2-4 seeker cavalcades. Sounds lkke a must have without I'm not able to play this host. But I couldn't find any tournament list that contains this amount of battalions while they're a Godseekers host. 

Main question: is my english this bad or isn't it a must that I need to play a special host? 

Thanks for your help!