AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Cambot1231]

The real trick will be to see if these are match play/ tournament legal battalions.  A little sad that these mortal battalions are most likely the rose on the grave for new mortal slaanesh models

[shinros]

1 hour ago, decker_cky said:

Its a little annoying that the battalion doesn't include hellstriders as an option.

It seems the battalions might be tailored for people who want to run old mortal models and daemons. I suspect one might let you use Hellstriders, would be weird if it didn't. But it just seems to me this is a band-aid for people who wanted to run mortal lists, since they didn't get any models and people are not buying the new hero model, KOS is just too good. 

At the end of the day GW should of made new mortal models instead of front-loading the release with daemons/heroes. 

This is just my opinion. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by shinros

[CB42]

2 hours ago, Cambot1231 said:

The real trick will be to see if these are match play/ tournament legal battalions.  A little sad that these mortal battalions are most likely the rose on the grave for new mortal slaanesh models

Unless something changes, no. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/age_of_sigmar_generals_handbook_designers_commentary_en.pdf

 

Q: If a unit’s Pitched Battle profile is not included in the General’s Handbook 2019 or its Official Errata document, can it be used in a Pitched Battle?
A: No

[Overread]

That's a change. Their original stance was if it had points or not. Also the White Dwarf article might veto that answer. It wouldn't be the first time that GW gets its ultimate statments in a twist. 

 

 

Even so the lore and story will be good to read, Slaanesh has need of more named characters within the story! Khorne and Nurgle have loads and Tzeentch gets a strong following too, Slaanesh needs a good few heroes of its own! Heck thus far we've only got 2 in this edition and one of them is a Keeper. 

[Enoby]

This was posted as a comment on FB. I know they're not always accurate, but it's worth noting.

[Enoby]

That double depravity point ability seems a bit strong... just park two keepers next to him and they become kinda pointless to shoot at (26dp per dead keeper). 

[Sobakaa]

20 minutes ago, Enoby said:

That double depravity point ability seems a bit strong... just park two keepers next to him and they become kinda pointless to shoot at (26dp per dead keeper). 

Why not shoot him first? That would only give what, 18 depravity? Then this ability turns off.

[Enoby]

Just now, Sobakaa said:

Why not shoot him first? That would only give what, 18 depravity? Then this ability turns off.

Pretty sure he can benefit from cover and look out sir, so you can shoot him, but it'll take a decent number of shots away from the two keepers (who are very dangerous), and those 18 dp can be summoned into like 200 points of models. 

[Carnith]

The other battalions are mortal hero, chosen/warriors/marauders, 1-2 warshrines. I think soemthing else, but all it grants is the warshrine goes off on a 2+

The other one we haven't seen are 1-3 soul grinders and they gain +1 hit and +1 save. Also getting to 13 drops for the d6 CP isn't bad cause it'll grant you extra rounds of double pile ins. 

[Popisdead]

On 10/7/2019 at 10:47 PM, HERO said:

So... in October, we're going to get 4 more Battalions.  Who's excited?  Any bets on maybe getting a Fiend battalion?

I think GW could drop the price of Fiends, make them BL if Shalaxi is your general and at least it presents a fluffy avenue to explore them. Not saying anything about that from a tournament option just fluff.  

On 10/11/2019 at 1:48 PM, decker_cky said:

Its a little annoying that the battalion doesn't include hellstriders as an option.

I think the battalions are bringing STD units into HoS. 

18 minutes ago, carnith said:

The other battalions are mortal hero, chosen/warriors/marauders, 1-2 warshrines. I think soemthing else, but all it grants is the warshrine goes off on a 2+

The other one we haven't seen are 1-3 soul grinders and they gain +1 hit and +1 save. Also getting to 13 drops for the d6 CP isn't bad cause it'll grant you extra rounds of double pile ins. 

Wahoo, I have two custom built Soul Grinders that I’ve wanted to try again.

[Overread]

From the core Battletome most likely if they are not present in the "mini" tome in the wd

[HERO]

Hmm.. doesn't look like there's going to be battalions that are going to benefit Daemons.  oh well, more Godseekers it is!

[shinros]

5 minutes ago, HERO said:

Hmm.. doesn't look like there's going to be battalions that are going to benefit Daemons.  oh well, more Godseekers it is!

The current book is pretty much a daemon tome already, I think this is GW essentially throwing mortals a bone and trying to shift more boxes of their new hero. 

[HERO]

12 minutes ago, shinros said:

The current book is pretty much a daemon tome already, I think this is GW essentially throwing mortals a bone and trying to shift more boxes of their new hero. 

Sure, I guess I was more or less bummed that Pretenders will still be terrible.  Well, not terrible, just not as powerful as Invaders or Godseekers because of ONE battalion being dominant (Supreme Syrabites).

[Luke1705]

8 hours ago, Sobakaa said:

Why not shoot him first? That would only give what, 18 depravity? Then this ability turns off.

Prismatic palisade

[RuneBrush]

+++ MOD HAT +++

Just a reminder about not posting up leaked pictures - that includes photos of your White Dwarves 😉

[Enoby]

6 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Prismatic palisade

Yeah, I think this and other LoS blocking terrain means they're going to be difficult to get rid of. And even if you do get rid of them, you've not been shooting at the keepers. Not to mention armies without shooting.

 

Very interested in the Soul Grinder battalion; not amazing, but makes them usable - 16 wounds and a 3+ save is nothing  to sniff at.   

[Overread]

Well its a well timed mini-tome to get people interested in buying Slaves models in advance of a Slaves update. My one issue is that depravity - as noted above. That 12 inch bubble with double depravity generation is, well, I mean its going to basically turn the current army combo into 3 keepers and hero character. Even if the pair only remain in range of one keeper that's going to double the generation. It's also a flat doubling so you get it if they attack or if they take damage from attacks. 

Depravity was mostly broken in a large keeper list anyway and this just kinda seems to build on top of that. 

It gives me a bit of worry that GW isn't really paying attention to user feedback, then again this article was likely penned months ago (though the Slaanesh Tome is also many months old now). 

The only benefit is that you can argue it helps the army against 1 wound heavy armies where they can't generate as much depravity from attacks. However because its a flat gain it also means that if you're against a multi-wound army you can generate double the depravity off all the attacks as well. It might have been better and a more situational beneficial if it had just been from wounds received. 

[whispersofblood]

33 minutes ago, Overread said:

Well its a well timed mini-tome to get people interested in buying Slaves models in advance of a Slaves update. My one issue is that depravity - as noted above. That 12 inch bubble with double depravity generation is, well, I mean its going to basically turn the current army combo into 3 keepers and hero character. Even if the pair only remain in range of one keeper that's going to double the generation. It's also a flat doubling so you get it if they attack or if they take damage from attacks. 

Depravity was mostly broken in a large keeper list anyway and this just kinda seems to build on top of that. 

It gives me a bit of worry that GW isn't really paying attention to user feedback, then again this article was likely penned months ago (though the Slaanesh Tome is also many months old now). 

The only benefit is that you can argue it helps the army against 1 wound heavy armies where they can't generate as much depravity from attacks. However because its a flat gain it also means that if you're against a multi-wound army you can generate double the depravity off all the attacks as well. It might have been better and a more situational beneficial if it had just been from wounds received. 

It doesn't look like this new host has any artefacts, or command traits, thats a pretty big hit. I would argue double depravity makes taking mortal heroes worthwhile since you struggle to gain depravity with them as it is. 

I'm curious to play around with these battalions, and to see how many daemon units I can get to maximize the CP generation. That being said without a significant role for Excess of Violence maybe I don't need as many CPs anyway.

Also IF the warshrine doesn't have to be marked Slaanesh, that could be very good. If it does... well then is a horrible tax for the time being.

[Holy_Diver]

Hi slaaneshi people! 😎
I read very much on this forum, but I speak little...there are more qualifyed player than me to listen to.

So... let me take one point about the Syll'Essakn host: the trait of doublin DP is very strong, but it does not solve the current problems of the army...that is SHOOTING 😱
 

10 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Prismatic palisade

- Skaven with 9x stormfiends (that shoot without line of sight or teleported with the bridge)
- Orruks with Kunnin Rukk
- Cityes with Sisters of the Watch/Handgunners/Ironweld/Dwarves
- Tzeentch with Changehost (if we assume spells like shooting)

All of they can take "Syll'Xerxes" and shred it turn 1, with or without Palisade (and we remain with 16 DP).
And that's the first problem. the second is: how to make enough command points?
 

Spoiler

My first idea (5 DAEMON + 5 MORTAL units): 

Keeper
Shalaxi
Syll'Eske
Epitome
Exalted Champion
Exalted Champion

30x Daemonettes
2x5 Hellstriders

Sybarites
Cogs
Palisade

And that is. Let me know some solutions about.

[Luke1705]

1 hour ago, Holy_Diver said:

Hi slaaneshi people! 😎
I read very much on this forum, but I speak little...there are more qualifyed player than me to listen to.

So... let me take one point about the Syll'Essakn host: the trait of doublin DP is very strong, but it does not solve the current problems of the army...that is SHOOTING 😱
 

- Skaven with 9x stormfiends (that shoot without line of sight or teleported with the bridge)
- Orruks with Kunnin Rukk
- Cityes with Sisters of the Watch/Handgunners/Ironweld/Dwarves
- Tzeentch with Changehost (if we assume spells like shooting)

All of they can take "Syll'Xerxes" and shred it turn 1, with or without Palisade (and we remain with 16 DP).
And that's the first problem. the second is: how to make enough command points?
 

  Hide contents

My first idea (5 DAEMON + 5 MORTAL units): 

Keeper
Shalaxi
Syll'Eske
Epitome
Exalted Champion
Exalted Champion

30x Daemonettes
2x5 Hellstriders

Sybarites
Cogs
Palisade

And that is. Let me know some solutions about.

So just touching on some of the issues you've mentioned:

Tzeentch requires line of sight for most of their powers I believe.  So palisade does solve that problem.

Same with cities. Unless they under drop slaanesh (which they do not I don't think) you can go first and use line of sight blocking to your advantage

No idea what kunnin' rukk is. Haven't dove into the new book yet.  But if it's shooting that ignores LOS, that is a problem for sure. But they're not normally a hugely shooty army, so I'm a little less concerned.

Skaven are a problem.  They under drop us if we take the new syll'esske stuff because IMO the vengeful alliance isn't worthwhile. I can't make a syll'esske host list with less than 5 drops even with seeker cavalcade. The gnawholes we can usually block somewhat (but less well if they go first) and those 24" guns will down syll'esske on average, though it's not 100%. I guess at that point you just take the depravity generated by syll'esske and be happy they're not killing your keepers and then wombo the ****** out of them with your keepers.  Frankly it would probably be better to have the normal hosts against skaven to stop their mobility by under dropping them and not getting shot before you move.

Your list I like except that it's pretty high drop. Would recommend the seeker cavalcade to lower the drop count.

[decker_cky]

2 hours ago, Holy_Diver said:

 

  Hide contents

My first idea (5 DAEMON + 5 MORTAL units): 

Keeper
Shalaxi
Syll'Eske
Epitome
Exalted Champion
Exalted Champion

30x Daemonettes
2x5 Hellstriders

Sybarites
Cogs
Palisade

And that is. Let me know some solutions about.

You can't take sybarites in the new host.

[Holy_Diver]

21 hours ago, decker_cky said:

You can't take sybarites in the new host.

Mh yup, you're right... and that's another bad thing.

21 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

So just touching on some of the issues you've mentioned:

Tzeentch requires line of sight for most of their powers I believe.  So palisade does solve that problem.

Tzeentch do not requires LOS because of the Spell Portal and the Changehost is "one-move-deploy-trick-pony".
So the problem remains.

21 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

No idea what kunnin' rukk is. Haven't dove into the new book yet.  But if it's shooting that ignores LOS, that is a problem for sure. But they're not normally a hugely shooty army, so I'm a little less concerned.

Shooting warscroll battallion of the savege orruks, who take a unit of 20 models (in the hero fase) and decide to shoot or move (if shoots, 60 hits come).

Anyway... that's why I think it's difficult to pull out a list of the new host. The meta is changin really and there still two other tomes to be seen.

[themortalgod]

On 10/11/2019 at 7:11 PM, CB42 said:

Unless something changes, no. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/age_of_sigmar_generals_handbook_designers_commentary_en.pdf

 

Q: If a unit’s Pitched Battle profile is not included in the General’s Handbook 2019 or its Official Errata document, can it be used in a Pitched Battle?
A: No

By the logic of that FAQ any new battletome that is printed after GHB2019 cannot be used in a pitched battle because it is neither printed in GHB2019 or the Errata. 

The trump to that, however, is that the most recent publication is always the authority. The FAQ only has authority over stuff published before it, not after it. 

[CB42]

Man, I hope this doesn’t get treated as legal for tournaments. It’s just so absurdly strong that I’d feel obligated to switch to it for tournaments, if only to keep up with the power creep of other Slaanesh players doing the same.