AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[whispersofblood]

3 minutes ago, Sobakaa said:

One thing i haven't seen discussed here much is the Seeker Cavalcade battalion and units of chariots in Godseekers where they're battleline. In my mind that would be useful against a mirror matchup of slaanesh or khorne with its chain activation and 6" pile in. Something like that, maybe:

Allegiance: Slaanesh
Keeper of Secrets (360)
- Ritual Knife
The Masque (120)
The Contorted Epitome (200)
Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot (220)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (100)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (100)
10 x Seekers (240)
3 x Seeker Chariots (360)
Seeker Cavalcade (140)
Supreme Sybarites (120)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 94

2x10 seekers would give more attacks and be faster, but chariots are battleline, can retreat and charge and provide some mortal wounds at the start of combat. I'd love to fit in another keeper but than it would be a completely different list more suited for Invaders.

The problem you are going to have is the single point of failure in the KoS. None of these units do a good amount of dmg without Excess of Violence, and 4+ locus is unreliable. 

I theorize you will only win games where your KoS survives into turn 3 and you get important 4+ locus rolls off.

This list needs at least a second KoS.

[Luke1705]

I’m not sure I agree with that assessment. Tons of lists have been doing just fine with only 1 keeper and shalaxi who doesn’t have that command ability.

That being said, three thoughts on the list:

1) if you want to use the seeker battalion (and I highly recommend that you do) you really want to be invaders because the 6” pile in isn’t a charge, so you will struggle to gain depravity from being godseekers or you won’t be using the entire point of the battalion. It’s not good to have conflicting goals there.

2) Charging will often get you more distance than the 6” pile in unless you’re willing to spend a command point to run 6” (since you’re not charging you can run and pile in or fall back and pile in or both. It’s really amazing). But the reason I bring this up is because this is good for single model units but you may struggle to engage large units like the 10 seekers with only a 6” pile and no charge move. People who run seeker blobs usually do so alongside the depraved drove and just go full alpha strike wombo with cogs and the whole nine yards to maximize how many models can swing in combat

3) Lastly, the biggest battle in Slaanesh mirror matchups is actually the war of cp attrition. For this reason alone, I am not considering another host other than invaders. The glory hog trait is amazing and you have to keep a hero out of the thick of it anyways so that you can guarantee a summon even if plans go awry, so that should pay dividends all game. Also, the rod of misrule and the mandatory supreme sybarites means that while godseekers will run low on CP, you keep raking it in far longer.

[Enoby]

A bit tangential to the discussion, but is there anything near a competitive Pretenders host? It seems the other two are just better, and a lot of that (for me) comes down to the Supreme Saberites battalion being neutered (mostly the lack of a smaller drop number and very few ways to generate extra CP throughout the battle).  Anyone found a way to make pretenders work?   

[Lucentia]

I feel like Pretenders is mostly going to shine at lower points levels, where your opponent is going to find it harder to remove your super-Keeper from play, at the standard 2k, I dunno, it's hard to see much value in what Pretenders brings to the table over the other options.  Potentially some sort of Depraved Drove list where you can use the Beasts of Chaos speed and threat to keep pressure off your general?

[Obeisance]

Hey so, Let's say you were thinking about buying into Slaanesh. 

What would be a) your starting list and b) your starting purchases?

And of course c) what extra junk would you need for summoning?

 

[Overread]

4 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

Hey so, Let's say you were thinking about buying into Slaanesh. 

What would be a) your starting list and b) your starting purchases?

And of course c) what extra junk would you need for summoning?

 

The Getting Started set is a very good investment. With it you get:

10 Deamonettes

5 Seekers

2 Chariot kits

Those are all core models in the army and a good starting point to build from. 4 Getting Started sets would give you enough for;

40 Deamonettes - Easily able to give you 3 units of 10 for Battleline and then 10 for summoning. Or you can build them into 20 or 30 unit blocks. Personally I tend to err toward having at least one 30 unit block. I also tend to only build banners and such per unit block rather than every 10 - mostly because to me it looks islly to have 3 banners for a unit of only 30 troops. Note that many might well do it one per 10 so that you've then got several viable groups of 10 at full strength for summoning or for putting down on the table as min-strength groups to make up for the battleline requirements. 

20 Seekers. A single expensive block or two blocks of 10. Ideal for putting on the table or summoning.

8 Chariot Kits. This can be build in a number of ways. Personally I'd aim for getting 2 exalted (2 chariot kits each); 3 seeker and 1 hellflayer as a starting point. Note that whilst any chariot can now have a herald atop few people model them fixed to one form or another and just say at the start of the battle which are herald and which are regular, though if you figure you want some that always stand out you can easily do so. 

Furthermore if you build exalted chariots and hellflayers you will get spare standing deamonette bodies from the kit. These can easily be given some big claws from the kits (such as from seeker riders) and become - Heralds. Not as showy as the finecast herald, but certainly another way to get more out of the kit. And because the bodies swap around you don't have to stick to the spare bodies from the chariot kits (who tend to have rather sideways arm postures for holding whips) so you can swap the body over with one of the deamonette kits if you want. 

 

Note that all the deamonette kits can interchange parts. Heads and arms can freely swap around however you want so you can shift stuff about to give even more variety. Personally one thing I like to do is to use the horn from the seekers instead of the one from the deamonettes. The riders can also shift around between the chariots and the regular seekers. 

Also if you get tired of cleaning whips for chariots remember that you really only need one whip arm for the weapon profile; you can make the other a claw if you want. 

 

That would give you a lot to build and a very solid core to the force. Also you can build it up in stages, possibly interspacing each starting set with a leader. Leader wise the models have few bad choices - the Keeper is a massive powerhouse; the Infernal gives you a ranged attack; the Contorted Epitome is a powerful supporting unit. 

 

 

 

Also note that there are still Wrath and Rapture kits around on ebay broken in half. A GREAT way to get cheap Infernals, fiends (which are utterly fantastic kits) , seekers and deamonettes. I would recommend seeing if you could get hold of 3 copies. That would give you 3 infernals which is the most you'll likely ever need; you'll have a bit of an excess of fiends and likely seekers, but that's not a bad thing all told. You'll have extras to summon or to form into large single block units or multiples for some army variety and fun. I'd probably suggest scooping these up sooner than getting started sets if just because the stock on these is limited and will, eventually, run out. 

[CB42]

6 hours ago, Enoby said:

A bit tangential to the discussion, but is there anything near a competitive Pretenders host? It seems the other two are just better, and a lot of that (for me) comes down to the Supreme Saberites battalion being neutered (mostly the lack of a smaller drop number and very few ways to generate extra CP throughout the battle).  Anyone found a way to make pretenders work?   

You could make a competitive Depraved Drove pretenders list - you don’t take sybarites in that and it gives your Bestigors reroll 1s against non-order lists. You lose out on making your keeper run and charge and on Cameo, which reduces your turn 1 effective threat range, but you gain the super keeper and reroll 1s, You could probably take Sliverslash on the Keeper, Sword of Judgment on the Epitome, a Bladebringer on Exalted, 30 Ungors, 60 Bestigors, 2 GBS and Cogs, which would be a solid tournament list.

[whispersofblood]

14 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

I’m not sure I agree with that assessment. Tons of lists have been doing just fine with only 1 keeper and shalaxi who doesn’t have that command ability.

That being said, three thoughts on the list:

1) if you want to use the seeker battalion (and I highly recommend that you do) you really want to be invaders because the 6” pile in isn’t a charge, so you will struggle to gain depravity from being godseekers or you won’t be using the entire point of the battalion. It’s not good to have conflicting goals there.

2) Charging will often get you more distance than the 6” pile in unless you’re willing to spend a command point to run 6” (since you’re not charging you can run and pile in or fall back and pile in or both. It’s really amazing). But the reason I bring this up is because this is good for single model units but you may struggle to engage large units like the 10 seekers with only a 6” pile and no charge move. People who run seeker blobs usually do so alongside the depraved drove and just go full alpha strike wombo with cogs and the whole nine yards to maximize how many models can swing in combat

3) Lastly, the biggest battle in Slaanesh mirror matchups is actually the war of cp attrition. For this reason alone, I am not considering another host other than invaders. The glory hog trait is amazing and you have to keep a hero out of the thick of it anyways so that you can guarantee a summon even if plans go awry, so that should pay dividends all game. Also, the rod of misrule and the mandatory supreme sybarites means that while godseekers will run low on CP, you keep raking it in far longer.

Define "tons" and "just fine". 

[azmodan]

10 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Hey so, Let's say you were thinking about buying into Slaanesh. 

What would be a) your starting list and b) your starting purchases?

And of course c) what extra junk would you need for summoning?

 

Start collecting box and wrath and rapture slaanesh half. After that keeper and fane.

 

[Luke1705]

5 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

Define "tons" and "just fine". 

I mean tons is an obvious exaggeration but IIRC the 2nd place Blackout list was like that and like 6 of the top 11 spots were Slaanesh.

Also @Rhellion was/is like 10-0 over the last month at GTs and was explaining the Slaanesh mirror matchup point.

But I’ve been combing over the top GT list results since the book has been in use and I was originally thinking that 3 keepers would be ideal but noticed that with like 1 or 2 exceptions most people have not used more than 2 that podiumed or top 10’d at a major GT.  Obviously anecdotal and not true data but it is a definite trend I’ve noticed

[whispersofblood]

9 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

I mean tons is an obvious exaggeration but IIRC the 2nd place Blackout list was like that and like 6 of the top 11 spots were Slaanesh.

Also @Rhellion was/is like 10-0 over the last month at GTs and was explaining the Slaanesh mirror matchup point.

But I’ve been combing over the top GT list results since the book has been in use and I was originally thinking that 3 keepers would be ideal but noticed that with like 1 or 2 exceptions most people have not used more than 2 that podiumed or top 10’d at a major GT.  Obviously anecdotal and not true data but it is a definite trend I’ve noticed

Ok But the comment was that one KoS is a point of failure, and I've not seen a 5-0 list without 2+ KoS since launch. I don't have access to Blackout 2nd place list, but 3rd also 5-0 had 4 KoS. 

[Enoby]

Having ran 1 KoS in a semi-narrative list (that has held its own against more competitive armies), I can say that only having 1 is a difficulty because a decent chunk army has to be devoted to protecting it (through screens or extra loci) for long enough to make its points back (otherwise it just gets surrounded and killed).  Having two means the opponent can't focus fire your best unit. 

Also, by the by, but I really think the fane is better than some people were giving it credit for. The rerolls have changed the outcome of many combats.  

[Luke1705]

36 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

Ok But the comment was that one KoS is a point of failure, and I've not seen a 5-0 list without 2+ KoS since launch. I don't have access to Blackout 2nd place list, but 3rd also 5-0 had 4 KoS. 

I’d agree if you couldn’t summon more KoS in but since you can I think it’s workable. That being said I saw the 4 keeper list so clearly that’s viable as well

[CB42]

On 9/1/2019 at 6:02 AM, whispersofblood said:

Ok But the comment was that one KoS is a point of failure, and I've not seen a 5-0 list without 2+ KoS since launch. I don't have access to Blackout 2nd place list, but 3rd also 5-0 had 4 KoS. 

I went 5-0 at BWG’s Summer Slaughter with my one Keeper / Epitome / 20 Seekers / Depraved Drove / Cogs list. One Keeper is less of a point of failure when you can run and charge and have cogs up. The extra 7” (or 10” with a cp) allows you to keep the keeper further back than normal and still be the first one to charge.

[Luke1705]

Interesting that both of the two 5-0 Slaanesh lists at NOVA went godseekers. One had two keepers and one had three. Both had a brick of 30 daemonettes and were 4 drop. The 3 keeper list won on strength of schedule it looks like.

[Enoby]

Here's a Facebook post of the rundown of Nova for the winning Slaanesh list: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1641718192732121/permalink/2433658273538105/

"Hi all,
First battle report here… Pardon my writing skills as English is not my first language as well 😊
In any case, I came back after last year’s sad story. (I went 6-0 with Nagash and didn’t get any trophy/podium prizes due to my painting points being too low). The TO this year did a really fantastic job in making sure none of this happens again, and I really think this is why NOVA is such a great AOS event for everyone. At the end of the day its all about having fun and listening to what the players think! Thank you for all the hard work! Chuck Moore
Here goes the brutal battle report I hope you all enjoy it! Back to back undefeated at NOVA (11-0)! 😊
I’m taking a Slaanesh army with Godseekers – I know… The typical bandwagon army hahahhahahah
It’s essentially 3 Keepers + Exalted Hero of chaos + Contorted Epitome + daemonettes
Round 1
Vs Matt barker– Nurgle
Knife to the Heart – Aqshy
One of the roughest matchup I’ve had and favorite matches as well. I have 4 drops so I let him went first not realizing that his army was super tough and tanky to deal with. I’ve played another kind of nurgle last year but I totally forgot how awesome can they be.
Yeah, the marauders were 5+ 6+ 6+ 6+, and on top of that, he made me reroll hit on 6’s and reroll wound on 6’s. Ouch! So the first turn Matt charged 40 marauders into my 2 keeper and 30 daemonettes. I spent all my CP to kill them and still couldn’t kill it until the 2nd round. 
One lucky thing was the 10 blight king wasn’t able to make it charge on my flank, and it really helped me on being not flanked on the corner 
Battle was really fierce since the only thing I was able to kill was the 40 marauders, he killed 1 keeper and left my other one with 4 wounds on. Luckily I got thermal rider cloak and run across the board to summon 20 daemonettes to take control his objective to secure the win. 

Round 2
Vs Joe Krier – Changehost – I’ve been dying to challenge the tzeentch master itself, it’s like a dream come true lol 
Total Conquest on Aqshy, Again this is one of the most tactical and precise base game I’ve ever played. (Making sure that he all of his heroes can’t run far enough to summon screens/50 more blues is clearly bananas. Again, one of my all-time favorite matches!)
Joe had one drop, so he let me go first. It was clear that I am going first since we are essentially 24 inch apart. Any double turn against me would have been game/rough for me. Knowing the condition I deployed my keepers in the front, so during my first turn I spent a cp on my general to run and charge with 20 inch movement and the other keeper with thermal to charge all of his blues. I rolled pretty well and managed to wipe a lot of the horrors, more importantly, 20 pinks. On his turn, he managed to kill a keeper and almost killed the other one with massive shooting (he summoned 50 blues every turn! Yikes!). Since I didn’t get the double, the other keeper managed to follow through and I was really high on points since my plan was to corner him on the left edge of the board.
By turn 3, I’ve had almost all of the horrors killed and I think the game was decided after I managed to kill the LOC with the Keeper. I managed to secure the victory through a lot of lucky charges and priority turn. Wonderful game!

Round 3
Shifting Objectives – Thomas Goddard -Khardron Overlod
YA – JUDGEEEEE!! WHY AM I PLAYING AGAINST KO ON FLAMING MISSILES T___________T
I totally thought I wud havelost round 1 and just have no chance of winning. The game was super blur (sorry not a great battle report after all)
I deployed so that all the keepers are out of the arkanuts range – 28.0000000001 inch 😊. Since I had one less drop I gave him the first turn. Luckily for me, the arkanuts didn’t kill enough daemonettes and it was enough for me.
I made one keeper to run and charge on a CP and the other with thermal rider to clear the arkanuts. Thankfully the balloon -12 of them only managed to kill 1 keeper. At this point, I had max points to his points that he only score in round 1. Again, no double turn on this game… Lucky for me, so I managed to secure the game around round 3 after all 40 arkanuts were killed. 

Round 4
Focal Points/Shyish – Matthew Phasby – Mixed order – 30 arko with 15 eels – YEA U HEARD IT, ANOTHER 30 arko!!
Again, probably one of my most favorite game of all time and sorry I’ve said this to all of my games because I truly enjoy every single one of them lol …. The game was super tactical, and precise, matt measure every single model to the very inch to make sure he can just shoot of any unit that is in the objective while still out of threat range of getting charged. 
I let Matt went first because all of his arko was 29 inches away from my keeper and daemonettes. Matt ended up taking the minimal point which is the 2 point in the center and the 2 point in the back. On my turn I managed to cast ethereal, -1 to hit, and mystic shield on the daemonettes. The goal was to let the 30 daemonettes run of the board and let it distract the arko. The daemonnates killed the 3 tanky eels. I also made sure that the keepers were 28 inch away from the arkos. 
Until a miracle came! I got the most dreaded skill turn of all time /double turn 😛 Sorry Matt, managed to charge in the keeper and daemonettes to the eels and arko. The daemonates killed the arkanuts and the keeper tied down the eels. At this point, I was maxed on points because I controlled all of the objectives on round 2. Luckily Matt didn’t get the double on round 3. He killed another keeper and I managed to summon the keeper back to kill off the rest of the eels and score the victory.

Round 5 – Chai Tzola – DOK with 20 snakes + 70 witches!! Ugh! 
Duality of Death- Shyish, Let’s say we can call this DEJAVU!!!!! We played duality of death last year on round 5 as well. One of the best player’s I’ve ever met! Fun game and sorry Chai… I beat you TWICE!!! 😊 JK, I got lucky in all of my saves and managed to somehow score a victory.
I’ve actually prepared a secret tech for this one. I’ve been practicing this a lot and I felt that this mission can be heavily abused against a player that has less drops than you. 
So I dropped daemonettes on each side but with holes indicating that a keeper will be placed on each side. My plan was to bait my opponent to split his army and essentially drop my entire army on his weaker flank and sit on the objectives forever. Also if I got lucky I cud potentially move to the other side and wiped everything as well since my entire army is literally in one side of the placement. 
It worked 😊 my right flank was essentially 5 hellstriders and 10 daemoonates + exalted hero of chaos while the left side had 3 keepers + 30 daemonates and epitome. 
I went first, blocked the movement with hellstriders since they could move so past and essentially blocked the first turn charge on the opponent. The 2 other keepers, 1 was buffed to be ethereal, -1 hit, +1 hit, shield etc to charge his entire army. Sad to say I rolled 5 ones on my keeper attacks and didn’t manage to kill his slaughter queen on the cauldron. The other keeper managed to kill 6 snakes due to my lucky charge rolls – Rolled 11 . Things were also going downhill when I rolled 1 on the locust for the snakes. I know… serves me right for all the Slaanesh players…. 
Chai got a double turn and almost wiped up my entire left flank. By this point, I’ve had so many depravity points and his army on the other flank was super beat up. On my second turn, I  summoned another keeper and 30 daemonettes which secures the game since they end up wiping the 30 witches and remaining snakes. The game was over since I was up by 2 points due to the first turn move.
Managed to secure the victory again 😊 Thank you for the great game! "

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

Hi, everyone! I asked this question in the Beasts thread and thought I'd get a perspective here!

If building a list for Depraved Drove, is it generally a better idea to play Hedonites Allegience with the battalion, or is it a case of "Beasts and Hedonites do different things but each has its strengths"?

Playing as Hedonites would cause me to lose out on the Allegiance abilities, and I think I might miss Ambush.

Essentially what I'm asking is: would a Depraved Drove list lend itself better to Slaanesh allegiance or Beasts with Slaaneshi allies?

[Enoby]

3 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

Hi, everyone! I asked this question in the Beasts thread and thought I'd get a perspective here!

If building a list for Depraved Drove, is it generally a better idea to play Hedonites Allegience with the battalion, or is it a case of "Beasts and Hedonites do different things but each has its strengths"?

Playing as Hedonites would cause me to lose out on the Allegiance abilities, and I think I might miss Ambush.

Essentially what I'm asking is: would a Depraved Drove list lend itself better to Slaanesh allegiance or Beasts with Slaaneshi allies?

I've not played beasts, but I can say that being able to run a full power KoS and Contorted epitome (for damage, locus, and spells) will likely make up for the BoC allegiance. That's not to mention the 6s generate extra hits which is brilliant on the bestigors if you're running them in big chunks. 

If you want nothing but BoC (so no KoS or CE) then maybe BoC allegiance is better, but otherwise I think the HoS is best.  

[sal4m4nd3r]

I am the Nurgle player that played William round one at NOVA. It was a great game. Something he didnt mention was that he had 100+ depravity points by round 3 LOL!! because my list was 30 blightkings. My only real chance at winning that game was to make the charge on the flank with 10 blightkings and gutrot. With a 4+ roll, gutrot can really neuter a large character by taking away a weapon profile. But I didn't get the charge. His army looks flippin amazing. Each keeper is completely converted.  His list is killer. I play against a slaanesh player semi-regularly but William is  incredibly skilled at piloting his list. Was a GREAT game!

My nurgle list included a contorted epitome as an ally. Since we were playing in aqshy (which has inferno blades and stoke rage) I decided a double caster/unbind with RRs was worth 200 points!  Anyway here is the epitome I converted up using the greasus goldtooth model combined with the mirror from the bloodwrack shrine, and rouge trader era nurglings. The coins I individually cut from greenstuff! 

I this as a symbol of excess of wealth and vanity (note the reflection in the mirror), that also touched on nurgle as a symbol of stagnation.

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r

[azmodan]

Do fellow hedonites.. how does Gotrek hype affect Your army rosters

any tricks to kill the dwarfen hero it just use high movement and run away?

 

 

[CB42]

9 minutes ago, azmodan said:

Do fellow hedonites.. how does Gotrek hype affect Your army rosters

any tricks to kill the dwarfen hero it just use high movement and run away?

 

 

Things that could potentially kill Gotrek:

* 30 Daemonettes fighting twice

* A bladebringer on exalted chariot fighting twice as well as 5 hellstriders fighting twice

Things that will not kill Gotrek, no matter what:

* Keepers of Secrets

 

Gotrek, especially at tournaments with Duality of Death, means we need to be able to do two things. First, we want to be able to outdrop armies with Gotrek (to take top in Duality), as otherwise Gotrek moves onto the objective in Duality and scores for the whole game and a single unit moves onto the other objective and scores for one turn, and we lose (if we get top of 1, we can do the same thing to them - put 10 daemonettes on one objective where Gotrek is and our whole army on the other objective and just win). Second, we want to have enough chaff units to slow Gotrek down. Alternate ways to accomplish this include endless spells such as Shackles or Prismatic Palisade that could be used to block his path or slow his movement.

 

Besides duality, the biggest concerns will probably be armies that want to castle up and can bring Gotrek to defend the castle. Seraphon armies that summon skinks to clog up the board and have Gotrek punch anyone who comes near the Slann or EOTG. Shootcast plus Gotrek. Free Peoples shooting plus Gotrek. For these armies, we play the mission rather than try to crash the castle, or if we do try to crash the castle, accept that anything that goes near Gotrek will die a horrible, horrible death. Castles tend to stay put until turn 3-5, so hold all other objectives for 2 turns, set up surviving models as a screen around Gotrek and co, and make it hard for them to push out onto objectives turn 3.

 

My Depraved Drove list with 130 bodies will be fine; my Ungors will die to Gotrek, but they'll slow him down while my Seekers and Bestigors kill everything else. But people running 3 keeper lists will have to simply abandon the part of the board that Gotrek is on until they can start summoning Daemonettes to hold him in place.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

On 9/4/2019 at 12:34 PM, sal4m4nd3r said:

This is one of the best conversions I've ever seen. I half expected to see Handsome Squidward in the reflection but still, excellent work!

[Luke1705]

I’m not sure that I buy 30 daemonettes fighting twice being able to kill Gotrek. That dude is on a small base.

I think you just treat him like a deathstar and cede the (decently small) board area to him unless it’s duality in which case yeah you gotta tango

[Draconaught]

5 hours ago, azmodan said:

Do fellow hedonites.. how does Gotrek hype affect Your army rosters

any tricks to kill the dwarfen hero it just use high movement and run away?

 

 

Start taking Slothful Stupor to keep him from charging if you gotta get close and maybe soulsnare shackles just to to make sure their 520 points investment does as little as possible. I think the investment to kill him is just too high to be worth trying unless you absolutely have no other choice but to kill him to secure the win.

[CB42]

2 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

I’m not sure that I buy 30 daemonettes fighting twice being able to kill Gotrek. That dude is on a small base.

I think you just treat him like a deathstar and cede the (decently small) board area to him unless it’s duality in which case yeah you gotta tango

Yeah, fair. I was running the math assuming you can get 20 in (which kills him about 45% of the time), but you can probably only get 12-15  in. At which point you’re more likely putting 4-6 wounds on him than 8. But that does get him into kill range for a Bladebringer on Exalted to finish him off.

The right move is absolutely to just avoid him, but on many maps thats not viable - not just duality, but also you often don’t want him burning your objectives in scorched or valor, you don’t want him near where the objectives drop in starstrike, you don’t want him sitting on the crucial middle objective in focal unless you can take all their backline objectives, stuff like that. I think it gives Slaanesh armies a reason to take more chaff. You need those bodies to serve as speed bumps.