AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Carnith]

So we’ve all been talking about lists and while some contention has occurred, I want to apologize for my behavior in sounding hostile when it is not my intention. We are all hear for slaanesh, and I wish to contribute to that. 

Hows everyone’s painting and modeling been going? My goal is to crank out my keeper of secrets this week. 

Heres three WiP pics. I need to fix the inner cloak as I noticed a part that I don’t like. But overall this is my favorite face/head I’ve done. How is everyone else’s projects going?

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, carnith said:

So we’ve all been talking about lists and while some contention has occurred, I want to apologize for my behavior in sounding hostile when it is not my intention. We are all hear for slaanesh, and I wish to contribute to that. 

Hows everyone’s painting and modeling been going? My goal is to crank out my keeper of secrets this week. 

Heres three WiP pics. I need to fix the inner cloak as I noticed a part that I don’t like. But overall this is my favorite face/head I’ve done. How is everyone else’s projects going?

Looks great

I've been on holiday so I've not had the chance to build much, but the kits I have built have been a treat. May try build a load of seekers that have just been lying about; they seem like they could be good now.

[Darkfine]

7 minutes ago, carnith said:

So we’ve all been talking about lists and while some contention has occurred, I want to apologize for my behavior in sounding hostile when it is not my intention. We are all hear for slaanesh, and I wish to contribute to that. 

Hows everyone’s painting and modeling been going? My goal is to crank out my keeper of secrets this week. 

Heres three WiP pics. I need to fix the inner cloak as I noticed a part that I don’t like. But overall this is my favorite face/head I’ve done. How is everyone else’s projects going?

Looks like it’s coming along!

Personally I can’t stand that model, will probably be looking elsewhere for Keeper of Secrets.  Which is unfortunate , aside from another Slaanesh sculpt or two I’ve never overtly disliked a GW sculpt.

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, Darkfine said:

Looks like it’s coming along!

Personally I can’t stand that model, will probably be looking elsewhere for Keeper of Secrets.  Which is unfortunate , aside from another Slaanesh sculpt or two I’ve never overtly disliked a GW sculpt.

Just out of curiosity, why don't you like it?

[Darkfine]

9 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Just out of curiosity, why don't you like it?

The Slaanesh aesthetic has been a hot mess since the Diaz sculpts were retired.  In my opinion everything from the demonettes to the ridiculous lawnmower chariots are silly in a bad way.

Specifically to the KoS it is 100% the pose of the model.  It doesn’t look like a lithe, deadly creature.  It looks like something trying to hold in flatulence.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Darkfine

[SwampHeart]

Different strokes for different folks I guess - I think the new KoS is an absolutely amazing model, probably one of the best GW has produced in years. 

I've been mostly working on getting stuff together so far, built an Enrapturess and Epitome last night, waiting for pay day to get my Keeper. I'm still not 100% sure on my hero load out, my only set in stone choices are atleast 1 Keeper, 1 Great Bray Shaman, and 1 Epitome.  

Also if you haven't assembled your Epitome yet I recommend a ton of dry fitting, especially with the big tentacles. They're not a bad fit but the instructions aren't super clear on exactly where they're supposed to go on the 'stand'. I figured it out by putting together basically all the tentacle sub assemblies and then just sort of slide fitting them until they all locked together. Its a good kit but the instructions could be clearer. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by SwampHeart

[Carnith]

Keeper and epitome are a must have, while the rest of the hero choices are up in the air. I definitely want soul shard and phantasmagoria as spells to nuke a hero or a unit. I might put back my manticore sorcerer since his spell is good at hero nuking. 

[themortalgod]

4 hours ago, Are Verlo said:

It looks like a blast to play, but i think you have made some mistakes that will reduce the effectiveness of the build. The Dragon Ogor Shaggoths are not SLAANESH DAEMON WIZARDS and can therefor not chose spells from the lore of slaanesh. This will reduce the healig slightly.

 

Or I might be mistaken, because I have not read the rules for the Deperaved Drove, and if that enables the Shaggoths to cast like SLAANESH DAEMON WIZARDS, then it is all good.

Right, good call, I didn't realize it was only daemons, I thought it was any slaanesh wizards. That isn't a huge loss though, its only ~1 wound per turn or so of healing and the other spells I don't care about.

[Grimrock]

Built my keeper model last night, it's a really fantastic kit from a technical perspective. So many neat little joints and ways the pieces stick together. Same with the epitome, absolutely incredible model. 

17 hours ago, Hebroseph said:

The rules on the Endless spell say "Set up this model" then that model "does something".  Once it's successfully cast, it is now its own entity, and no longer attached to the caster. If it stayed a hero then that has far reaching ramifications for other factions. When the Ogroid Thaumaturge cast his spell Fireblast, which after dealing damages and sets up models equal to the damage dealt, are those now heroes? Does the Skaven Verminlord who creates clanrats when he casts his spell, are they also Heroes? 

I'm not saying that the endless spell is a hero, but that it is cast by one. I looked at the depravity rules and they specifically say that mortal wounds caused to an enemy model by a SPELL cast by a slaanesh hero will generate depravity. Since an endless spell is a spell cast by the slaanesh hero it should generate depravity for all damage it causes to enemy models. I can understand the confusion because an endless spell both is and isn't a spell, so I agree that hopefully GW will FAQ it one way or another. 

[Carnith]

Endless spells are not considered spells I believe. But we will have to see with an faq. I will play it as it doesn’t generate depravity so my opponents don’t get salty when the wheels run over a wizard in a drive by. 

[Hebroseph]

The spell creates the model, the spell doesn't deal any damage. The hero casts the spell, end stop. The model moves by itself and is its own entity. 

[jackmcmahon]

1 hour ago, Grimrock said:

Built my keeper model last night, it's a really fantastic kit from a technical perspective. So many neat little joints and ways the pieces stick together. Same with the epitome, absolutely incredible model. 

I'm not saying that the endless spell is a hero, but that it is cast by one. I looked at the depravity rules and they specifically say that mortal wounds caused to an enemy model by a SPELL cast by a slaanesh hero will generate depravity. Since an endless spell is a spell cast by the slaanesh hero it should generate depravity for all damage it causes to enemy models. I can understand the confusion because an endless spell both is and isn't a spell, so I agree that hopefully GW will FAQ it one way or another. 

Ya, according to language, they are spells.  What kind of spell? An endless spell. Unfortunately, rules aren't fully clarifying intent all the time, but are getting better since I restarted a few years ago.  I think they treat spells and endless spells wording like wounds and mortal wounds.  Something that says it stops wounds on a 4+ should stop mortals if you read it as written, but it doesn't so they put wounds or mortal wounds in the wording.  Instead of "endless" being an adjective for "spells" think of it as "endless spells" being a one word noun that does not contain the word "spell". Oh, unless you are unbinding...or counting tzeentch spell ability...or other things.  Ok ok some work to be done still.

[LordRogalDorn]

Remember, we have a brief window to send AoSFAQ@gwplc.com emails with our questions. Waiting for the FAQ to drop before asking your questions doesn't serve anyone. 

[firebat]

9 minutes ago, Hebroseph said:

The spell creates the model, the spell doesn't deal any damage. The hero casts the spell, end stop. The model moves by itself and is its own entity. 

You keep making a whole list of assumptions based on how you think it works that isn't actually covered in any of the wording. The only relevant part is that the DP rules say that wounds done by spells cast by a Slaanesh Hero count for DP generation. Any attempt to say that the spell stops being one cast by that hero once a model is on the board or anything else is you applying rules you've made up on top. Did the Endless spell do a wound? Was that endless spell cast by a Slaanesh Hero? If both of those are a yes then it counts until they say otherwise. They are also clearly spells because any items or effects that provide protection against spells work against endless spells so they don't just become something else they haven't defined after they're cast.

[Enoby]

14 minutes ago, LordRogalDorn said:

Remember, we have a brief window to send AoSFAQ@gwplc.com emails with our questions. Waiting for the FAQ to drop before asking your questions doesn't serve anyone. 

Definitely a good idea.

I asked these questions, but I feel I missed a few:

"Do endless spells generate depravity points when the Slaanesh wizard cast them on the enemy? 

 

If a model that always strikes first is brought under the effect of Locus of Diversion (bringing it to normal activation as they cancel each other out), and then brought under the effect of Horrible Fascination, does the model then strike at the end of the combat phase? 

 

If you use a once per battle artefact (such as the Cameo of the Dark Prince), can you then sacrifice it to the Fane of Slaanesh? If so, are the artrfact's once per battle effects immediately lost?

 

If the Girdle of the Realm-racer is sacrificed to the Fane, does the hero regain the lost wound? "

[Grimrock]

24 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Definitely a good idea.

I asked these questions, but I feel I missed a few:

"Do endless spells generate depravity points when the Slaanesh wizard cast them on the enemy? 

 

If a model that always strikes first is brought under the effect of Locus of Diversion (bringing it to normal activation as they cancel each other out), and then brought under the effect of Horrible Fascination, does the model then strike at the end of the combat phase? 

 

If you use a once per battle artefact (such as the Cameo of the Dark Prince), can you then sacrifice it to the Fane of Slaanesh? If so, are the artrfact's once per battle effects immediately lost?

 

If the Girdle of the Realm-racer is sacrificed to the Fane, does the hero regain the lost wound? "

Basically copy and pasted this, along with one more:

How is Syll'Esske's ability 'Deadly Symbiosis' meant to interact with the Keeper of Secret's command ability 'Excess of Violence'? Would it be possible to give a step by step example including which attacks receive rerolls?

Edited May 9, 2019 by Grimrock

[Carnith]

The thing with endless spells is you don’t cast them on the enemy. You just cast them and they become their own entity. The closest way to allow this would be only on the turn they are cast. 

[Enoby]

While I don't think endless spells will count, I was also really adamant about MW counting for DP pre-battletome, so sometimes 'clear' rulings aren't clear at all. If they do count, then it gives us a much bigger reason to use them.  

[GeneralZero]

3 hours ago, Darkfine said:

It looks like something trying to hold in flatulence.

Beware, if it holds too much it transforms into GUO and explode on 6 damages D66

 

[Carnith]

13 minutes ago, Enoby said:

While I don't think endless spells will count, I was also really adamant about MW counting for DP pre-battletome, so sometimes 'clear' rulings aren't clear at all. If they do count, then it gives us a much bigger reason to use them.  

It was super clear before hand. The core book says treat mortal wounds like wounds for all rules purposes. It was clear how it worked, and when it was erratad it made no sense. 

[Enoby]

14 minutes ago, carnith said:

It was super clear before hand. The core book says treat mortal wounds like wounds for all rules purposes. It was clear how it worked, and when it was erratad it made no sense. 

Yeah, but I guess that's kind of my point - I was 100% certain, but then the FAQ came out and said otherwise. Basically, I'm not sure we can say anything on endless spells until the FAQ because it really could go any way, no matter how clear it may seem.

[jackmcmahon]

Just a clarification here: the model that is set up by an endless spell summon is also considered an endless spell itself, and was cast by a Slaanesh hero so if someone wanted to say they count until FAQ i wouldn't mind allowing it because that's what it says.  I am personally playing that they don't in expectation of an FAQ.  Future-proofing.

[LordRogalDorn]

Here are the questions I have asked. Some of them I have an idea of what the answer should be, but because we have this opportunity, I want to see what GW intended the answer to be. I'm also not interested in debating the rules until after GW has had a chance to comment on them. If you're thinking of asking any of these questions to GW, I'd recommend changing the wording a bit so that it doesn't seem like a bot is hitting their FAQ team. 

Does the model I select as the target for the ritual knife special mortal wounds at the end of the combat phase have to be the model that first has mortal wounds allocated to it, or does my opponent allocate mortal wounds to the model(s) of his(her) choice? 

When will the recommended base for the  Slaanesh Exalted Seeker Chariot increase? The base that the model is currently on makes it difficult to play with and store as a large portion of the model hangs off of the sides of the base.

What happens if a unit has the ability to strike first, has been affected by the locus of diversion at the end of the charge phase, and then is affected by Horrible Fascination? Does the targetted unit attack in the normal way in the combat phase, or does the unit now strike at the end of the combat phase?

 

Shalaxi Helbane's irresistible challenge rule states that if the target hero accepts the challenge that hero must attempt to charge, and must finish the charge move within 1/2 in of Shalaxi if it is possible for it to do so. What happens if there is a unit of daemonettes between the target hero and Shalaxi and the target hero cannot fly? Additionally, what happens if Shalaxi is 10 inches away and a unit of daemonettes are 8 inches away and the target hero rolls a 9 for charge distance? Does the target hero get to complete a charge move against the daemonettes, or can the hero not make a charge at all?

 

Many Slaanesh abilities, like the contorted epitome's spell overwhelming acquiescence, say something to the effect of "You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for attacks that target those units..." Does this mean the caster of the spell, or is the "You" referring to me as the player of the army and as such all units in my army can re-roll hit rolls of 1?

Do the attacks from a hero's mount also generate depravity points or just the attacks from the hero itself?

 

Do endless spells cast by Slaanesh heroes generate Depravity Points? 

 

How does Syll'Esske's Deadly Symbiosis rule interact with the Keeper of Secret's Excess of Violence command ability? Does Syll'Esske get to activate to attack up to 4 times with three of those activations getting to re-roll hit rolls? 

 

If a Keeper of secrets is within 1 inch of an Umbral Spell Portal and casts Cacophonic Choir can units within 6 inches of the other Umbral Spell Portal be targeted?

 

Can a Slaanesh hero sacrifice an artifact of power that can only be used once per game that has already been used?

 

Can the herald versions of the chariots be taken in Revellers battalion?

 

If you summon a Slaanesh wizard with depravity points, does that Slaanesh wizard get to pick a spell from one of the spell lores it qualifies for at the time it is summoned?

[LordRogalDorn]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Definitely a good idea.

I asked these questions, but I feel I missed a few:

"Do endless spells generate depravity points when the Slaanesh wizard cast them on the enemy? 

 

If a model that always strikes first is brought under the effect of Locus of Diversion (bringing it to normal activation as they cancel each other out), and then brought under the effect of Horrible Fascination, does the model then strike at the end of the combat phase? 

 

If you use a once per battle artefact (such as the Cameo of the Dark Prince), can you then sacrifice it to the Fane of Slaanesh? If so, are the artrfact's once per battle effects immediately lost?

 

If the Girdle of the Realm-racer is sacrificed to the Fane, does the hero regain the lost wound? "

Seems like we have many of the same questions. I hadn't thought about sacrificing the Girdle to the fane and possibly getting a wound back. That is an interesting thought!

[Lhurgoyf]

Hey I noticed the exploding 6s allegiance ability doesn't effect all attacks profiles equally. An attack that hits on 3s&4s and an attack that hits on 4s&3s normally both do .333 dmg per swing. However with the slaanesh buff the 3s&4s deals .416, and the 4s&3s attack deals .444. It isnt a huge difference, but it adds up over time.

 

Unfortunately most of the slaanesh book is on 4s to wound. Are there any good units out there with 3s to wound that can be a part of a Slaanesh army? I found Chaos Warriors with greatblades, and Chaos Knights with spears, but if anyone has other ideas I'd love help brainstorming. Alternately, any wizards with a +1 to wound buff would find their spell amplified by an allegiance to She who Thirsts. Are there any buffs like that in StD or BoC?