AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Hebroseph]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

It actually gives a neat reason to encourage your opponent not to swing any predatory endless spell in your direction. "Oh you want to hurt me with my own spell - ok that's fine my keeper will love it! She'll generate a load of depravity points!" 

Quick clarification, Endless spells do not generate DP when hitting your units, just your heros, even if you cast the spell. Once it's cast it becomes a unit on the table, and is no longer a "hero"

[Unit1126PLL]

Quick comment for the people saying "Godseekers is best because Invaders can't support each-other."

I like the Invaders army artefacts better (Rod of Misrule plus Supreme Sybarites means all of your Keepers can fight twice almost all the time). Just nominate one to be your general instead of 3.

You can even take that 1 with the command trait to re-roll all wounds if a Hero is within 6", and keep the 3 Keepers together, giving them free wound re-rolls.

[themortalgod]

3 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

Anybody seeing some use of Mortals in their army? I've been thinking about maybe bringing a Chaos Lord as a way to get some more DP through his Reaper Blade, but the fact he doesn't get Locus nor does he really have any buffs, it makes it hard to pick him. However, only being 20 points more than a herald does kinda make him tempting.

I think you would be hard pressed to get value out of him to justify his cost. The Reaper Blade seems cool but statistically, it isn't anything special. Normally that Lord does ~2.6 damage. With a reaper blade swing, he does about ~3.0 so a slight increase. The big difference is the Reaper Blade is all or nothing so sometimes it will be awesome, sometimes it will be horrible. On average it won't do much more tho. For 20pts more you get a Daemon Prince who can fly, has more wounds and does ~5 damage depending on weapon options and enemy targetted. 

[Undeadly]

10 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

I think you would be hard pressed to get value out of him to justify his cost. The Reaper Blade seems cool but statistically, it isn't anything special. Normally that Lord does ~2.6 damage. With a reaper blade swing, he does about ~3.0 so a slight increase. The big difference is the Reaper Blade is all or nothing so sometimes it will be awesome, sometimes it will be horrible. On average it won't do much more tho. For 20pts more you get a Daemon Prince who can fly, has more wounds and does ~5 damage depending on weapon options and enemy targetted. 

Yeah, that's the other thing that seems pretty good in lower level games; A Daemon Prince with Silverslash or some other combat buffing artifact could really be good. I just wish they left us the Lord of Slaanesh on Daemonic mount; that super fast move and fight again stratagem could have been awesome for light Hero sniping.

[Drib]

For lower games you could run a chaos lord in a seeker host with "Into the Fray" and Thermalrider Cloak to get two autohits with 3+/-2/2D6. Good chance to delete almost every Monster/Hero. And if you like the Daemon Prince more, you could turn him into one after he has blown things up.

Edit: The Daemon Prince might even pile in an attack.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Drib

[CB42]

I'm considering a hero-lite list for an upcoming tournament with a lot of maps where teams start 24" apart from each other. I know everyone wants to make depravity points and summoning into the centerpiece of their army, but I want to make the exploding 6s and an alpha strike into the centerpiece of mine. I really want the reroll 1s to hit because it's a pretty meaningful damage bump for an alpha strike list, and 24" apart is enough that you can't rely on the Contorted Epitome's Overwhelming Acquiescence.

The goal is for this list is to either take first turn and try to cripple someone, or take second turn, screen, kill their screen with my screen, then cripple them turn 2.

The list:

• Pretenders Allegiance
• Keeper of Secrets (General, Strength of Godhood, Inspirer, Thermal Cloak) (360)
• The Contorted Epitome (Sceptre of Domination) (200)
• 20 x Seekers (480)
• Depraved Drove Battalion (150)
• Great Bray Shaman (100)
• 30 x Bestigors (300)
• 40 x Ungors (200)
• 10 x Ungors (60)
• 10 x Ungors (60)
• Chronomantic Cogs (60)

1970 points. Against most lists, I'll stack Beasts of Chaos on one side and Daemons on the other. Take top of turn 1 (or bottom of turn 1 if the enemy is slow and won't be able to do anything, or if they deploy super far back), cast Cogs with the Epitome from outside unbinding range, move the GBS next to the Bestigors, take a mortal wound on the keeper for the rerolls to hit, and then launch the Keeper into one enemy unit (and the Seekers into the same enemy unit so that the Keeper is at the midpoint of where the Seekers will be), making the Seekers fight twice; and launching the Bestigors into as many units as possible on the other side of the map.

To enemies with a 5+ save, the Seekers will deal ~35 damage after saves with the first swing, and assuming that they lose 4 seekers, will deal ~24 damage with the second swing - and 59 damage is no joke. Against enemies with a 4+, this will be closer to 28 and 18 for 46 damage to a 4+ save. To grimghast reapers, they'll average about 33 damage after all saves are made. Plus whatever damage the Keeper does... and the Keeper will be screened from being surrounded because the Seekers will be there.

The bestigors will also average... about 59 damage after saves to a 5+ unit, assuming that the unit has at least 10 models, becoming 49 damage to units with fewer than 10 models, and becoming 39 damage to units with fewer than 10 models and a 4+ save. To grimghast reapers, they'll average 29 damage. The bestigors will die to the counterattack and battleshock, but they'll have wiped most anything they touched before they do.

Against screening enemies: blocks of 40 Ungors are almost as good in combat as 20 Daemonettes, but are 20 points cheaper and have twice as many wounds. Instead of launching Bestigors and Seekers turn 1, give the enemy first turn and launch 40 Ungors up the field into the screens. They'll average forcing 20 saves, which against a screen should be good to kill about 13 of them. Then there's 40 Ungors with a 5+ save holding the enemy in their deployment zone, which gives me time to control the board, and if they move to deal with the ungors with anything other than their screen, then I can hit them with Bestigors and Seekers turn 2. If they don't, it'll take some time for them to chew through it with their screen.

My biggest concern is that I don't have a ton of CP and on a 24" map I may need to make my Bestigors run 6" in order to guarantee that they get into the enemy lines, which means I'd be out of CP after my alpha strike. So it would definitely be prone to getting hit back.

Edited May 8, 2019 by CB42

[SwampHeart]

20 minutes ago, CB42 said:

The list:

• Pretenders Allegiance
• Keeper of Secrets (General, Strength of Godhood, Inspirer, Thermal Cloak) (360)
• The Contorted Epitome (Sceptre of Domination) (200)
• 20 x Seekers (480)
• Depraved Drove Battalion (150)
• Great Bray Shaman (100)
• 30 x Bestigors (300)
• 40 x Ungors (200)
• 10 x Ungors (60)
• 10 x Ungors (60)
• Chronomantic Cogs (60)

You're speaking my language here - I love the list and I'm excited to see how it works out. I think it takes hue advantage of the speed of HoS and gives you a lot of firepower. My only concern is if you don't do enough damage with that first haymaker you're going to get absolutely pummeled in return. 

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, Hebroseph said:

Quick clarification, Endless spells do not generate DP when hitting your units, just your heros, even if you cast the spell. Once it's cast it becomes a unit on the table, and is no longer a "hero"

I believe you are both right and wrong here. If I remember correctly both spells and endless spells cast by your heroes count towards depravity points, they don't just become distinct from the caster after they're on the board. Not sure if that's in the depravity rules or if it was just mentioned in an article somewhere though, so I could be wrong.

That being said, the depravity rules do say that a hero only generates points by receiving damage (from any source) or specifically damaging an enemy unit. So no double dipping on points if you use an endless spell on a friendly hero ('causing' and 'receiving' at the same time) or gaining points for hurting your own multi wound units. 

[CB42]

9 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

You're speaking my language here - I love the list and I'm excited to see how it works out. I think it takes hue advantage of the speed of HoS and gives you a lot of firepower. My only concern is if you don't do enough damage with that first haymaker you're going to get absolutely pummeled in return. 

Yeah, absolutely. I played a similar list last weekend with Index Slaanesh (swap out the Keeper, Epitome, 20 Seekers, and 40 Ungors for Exalted Keeper, 60 Daemonettes, a herald on steed, and 10 Ungor Raiders) and I managed to come in 2nd place at a local GT. It was a lot less reliant on the alpha strike than this list, but it was also a lot worse at the alpha strike than this list. And, truth be told, 3 of my 4 wins came from either the alpha strike or splitting my forces and alpha striking one side of the board and just holding the other side. Meanwhile, my 1 loss came when I tried to alpha strike against Daughters of Khaine but I screwed up my deployment pretty bad. But I believe I could do similar things if I can't alpha strike - I think I could use the Bestigors on the charge as a "mini" alpha strike on one part of the board, and have the 40 Ungors plus 2 x 10 ungors to hold one side of the board's worth of objectives while the Seekers and Keeper hold back and wait for the right moment to strike on the other side of the board, from outside effective shooting range but inside effective charge range.

I will be bringing an Infernal Enrapturess and 30 daemonettes to summon in case I manage to get that much depravity, though. The 30 daemonettes are really what I'd consider my priority summon, since they're so versatile.

Edited May 8, 2019 by CB42

[Hebroseph]

31 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

I believe you are both right and wrong here. If I remember correctly both spells and endless spells cast by your heroes count towards depravity points, they don't just become distinct from the caster after they're on the board. Not sure if that's in the depravity rules or if it was just mentioned in an article somewhere though, so I could be wrong.

That being said, the depravity rules do say that a hero only generates points by receiving damage (from any source) or specifically damaging an enemy unit. So no double dipping on points if you use an endless spell on a friendly hero ('causing' and 'receiving' at the same time) or gaining points for hurting your own multi wound units. 

The rules on the Endless spell say "Set up this model" then that model "does something".  Once it's successfully cast, it is now its own entity, and no longer attached to the caster. If it stayed a hero then that has far reaching ramifications for other factions. When the Ogroid Thaumaturge cast his spell Fireblast, which after dealing damages and sets up models equal to the damage dealt, are those now heroes? Does the Skaven Verminlord who creates clanrats when he casts his spell, are they also Heroes? 

Endless spells have the keywords, "Endless Spells, name of spell, realm" not "spells" or "Heroes"

I imagine GW with release an FAQ addressing this situation soon. Maybe they will rule in your favor and that will make slaanesh endless spells auto take. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Hebroseph

[themortalgod]

5 minutes ago, Hebroseph said:

The rules on the Endless spell say "Set up this model" then that model "does something".  Once it's successfully cast, it is now its own entity, and no longer attached to the caster. If it stayed a hero then that has far reaching ramifications for other factions. When the Ogroid Thaumaturge cast his spell Fireblast, which after dealing damages and sets up models equal to the damage dealt, are those now heroes? Does the Skaven Verminlord who creates clanrats when he casts his spell, are they also Heroes? 

I imagine GW with release an FAQ addressing this situation soon. Maybe they will rule in your favor and that will make slaanesh endless spells auto take. 

This is correct. Your hero only knows the "Summon Endless Spell X" spell. The product of that spell is to create a model that is entirely an independent entity just like any other summoning effect any effects triggered by that entity existing or taking an action such as moving are attributed to the entity itself and not the summoner. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by themortalgod

[Poryague]

they could clarify it in depravity rules. Add section saying something like slaanesh endless spells add depravity when damages enemy units for the player who cast it or they could just say no. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Poryague

[jackmcmahon]

I did the into the Fray thermal rider lord of chaos last week.  Anecdotal, but: both wounds went through.  1 was saved. Rolled a 3 for my 2d6.  He morphed into chaos spawn soon after.  Don't care. I love it. I am keeping him as general, but might use my realm artifact for goblet of draining on bladebringer.  Can proc it in hero, charge, start of combat, attacks.  Lots of attempts at that extra d3.

[Carnith]

Would the goblet give us depravity?

[themortalgod]

So been working on this list. Not sure how powerful it will be but I think it actually can do pretty decent. I really like the theme of including dragon ogres. My plan is to use the creature caster one, minus the wins as I feel it is not only a better model but also it actually feels sort of Slaanesh with the ornate helmet and the very gratuitous upper body.

For the dragon ogors, I'm not sure what I will do but I will replace the entire upper body with something suitably slaanesh, just not sure what yet. Ideas? 

This is the list:

Godseekers Host.

Keeper of Secrets - General, Thermal-Rider Cloak, Speed Chaser, Progeny of Damnation - 360pts

Shaggoth - Cameo of the Dark Prince, Born of Damnation - 180pts

Shaggoth - Hysterical Frenzy - 180pts

Shaggoth - Born of Damnation - 180pts

Great Bray Shaman - Lash of Slaanesh - 100pts

10 Ungors - 60pts

10 Ungors - 60pts

10 Ungors - 60pts

30 Bestigors - 300pts

6 Dragon Ogors - 280pts

Depraved Drove - 150pts

Cogs - 60pts

Palisade - 30pts

Total: 2000pts

 

- The list has a ton of healing so the opportunity for DP is actually really good since I will be constantly recovering wounds on heroes and +3 to charge means I will be charging very often on the turn of being summoned.

- Shaggoth can use the Cameo for a free CP then convert it with the Fane for heavy hitting. 

- Dragon Ogors are actually pretty solid in Slaanesh since they have so many attacks each that can trigger double hits. 

- Bestigors are ridiculously good.

- 2 drop army. 

 

 

[Yokai]

Lots of nifty trolling methods with the new rules.

For example: place a Mesmerising Mirror so that an enemy hero is inbetween it and Shalaxi, and then use Irresistible Challenge.

The enemy hero will now suffer at least D3 mortal wounds no matter what it does.

😅

Edited May 9, 2019 by Yokai

[Are Verlo]

5 hours ago, themortalgod said:

So been working on this list. Not sure how powerful it will be but I think it actually can do pretty decent. I really like the theme of including dragon ogres. My plan is to use the creature caster one, minus the wins as I feel it is not only a better model but also it actually feels sort of Slaanesh with the ornate helmet and the very gratuitous upper body.

For the dragon ogors, I'm not sure what I will do but I will replace the entire upper body with something suitably slaanesh, just not sure what yet. Ideas? 

This is the list:

Godseekers Host.

Keeper of Secrets - General, Thermal-Rider Cloak, Speed Chaser, Progeny of Damnation - 360pts

Shaggoth - Cameo of the Dark Prince, Born of Damnation - 180pts

Shaggoth - Hysterical Frenzy - 180pts

Shaggoth - Born of Damnation - 180pts

Great Bray Shaman - Lash of Slaanesh - 100pts

10 Ungors - 60pts

10 Ungors - 60pts

10 Ungors - 60pts

30 Bestigors - 300pts

6 Dragon Ogors - 280pts

Depraved Drove - 150pts

Cogs - 60pts

Palisade - 30pts

Total: 2000pts

 

- The list has a ton of healing so the opportunity for DP is actually really good since I will be constantly recovering wounds on heroes and +3 to charge means I will be charging very often on the turn of being summoned.

- Shaggoth can use the Cameo for a free CP then convert it with the Fane for heavy hitting. 

- Dragon Ogors are actually pretty solid in Slaanesh since they have so many attacks each that can trigger double hits. 

- Bestigors are ridiculously good.

- 2 drop army. 

 

 

It looks like a blast to play, but i think you have made some mistakes that will reduce the effectiveness of the build. The Dragon Ogor Shaggoths are not SLAANESH DAEMON WIZARDS and can therefor not chose spells from the lore of slaanesh. This will reduce the healig slightly.

 

Or I might be mistaken, because I have not read the rules for the Deperaved Drove, and if that enables the Shaggoths to cast like SLAANESH DAEMON WIZARDS, then it is all good.

[Magnus The Blue]

Correct, which is why I'd focus on Combat heroes in the Drove.  Doom Bulls stick out as a great option since they produce nearly their own points cost worth of Depravity points when killed!

[Enoby]

Anyone tried the Seeker Cavalcade battalion? Seems like it could be interesting as it's super easy to make (with battleline included and seekers not being all that great). As we know from Devotee of Torment, a 6" pile in can be incredible (it would let seekers strike first out turn without a hero, and would let them retreat and pile in), and seekers are much better now. I'd like to give building it a go; would probably include a sybarite battalion too as it's very easy to make and often worth it.  

[Redbaron]

Hi, quick question for folk: if you are building a smaller army for a 1000-pt game, would you consider a KoS viable? Or is it just too much of a points drain? 

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, Redbaron said:

Hi, quick question for folk: if you are building a smaller army for a 1000-pt game, would you consider a KoS viable? Or is it just too much of a points drain? 

I think it's fine at 1000pts; the command ability and dp generation is worth it on its own, but it hits like a truck and many armies just can't deal with it at that pount level.

[jackmcmahon]

10 hours ago, carnith said:

Would the goblet give us depravity?

I'll have to re-read it when I go home, buy I believe it would not.  The only way it would (sometimes) is if it says "that attack does an additional d3" then you would get it during combat and spells but still not abilities.  I think it's just general wording of they suffer d3 mortals from the goblet, in which case no depravity ever from it, though.  Still worth in my opinion though.  Average of 2/3 mortals per proc.  Can hit multiple heroes during multiple phases.

[jackmcmahon]

3 hours ago, Enoby said:

Anyone tried the Seeker Cavalcade battalion? Seems like it could be interesting as it's super easy to make (with battleline included and seekers not being all that great). As we know from Devotee of Torment, a 6" pile in can be incredible (it would let seekers strike first out turn without a hero, and would let them retreat and pile in), and seekers are much better now. I'd like to give building it a go; would probably include a sybarite battalion too as it's very easy to make and often worth it.  

Have not tried it, but another thing you can do with PIF6 is only pile in to 2.99" (because you didn't need to get within 1/2" from charge).  This keeps them from getting more than 1-3 models attacking and forces them to either retreat or spend turn killing your 100 point unit with their unit.  

[Enoby]

Just now, jackmcmahon said:

Have not tried it, but another thing you can do with PIF6 is only pile in to 2.99" (because you didn't need to get within 1/2" from charge).  This keeps them from getting more than 1-3 models attacking and forces them to either retreat or spend turn killing your 100 point unit with their unit.  

Ah yeah, good point. Gives a very interesting niche for Hellstriders - being a tie up unit for hordes.  

[jackmcmahon]

1 minute ago, Enoby said:

Ah yeah, good point. Gives a very interesting niche for Hellstriders - being a tie up unit for hordes.  

Right. Fits well with an army that really doesn't want their heroes fighting big units, even if they can kill them.  (Except maybe chaos lord on manticore with daggerfist and smouldering helm)