AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Draconaught]

1 hour ago, Midjithero said:

Few questions:

does a Lord of Change/Kairos get affected by an Infernal Enrapturesses Discordant Disruption (mortal wounds on a double)?  Since it’s not a “roll”, but change dice to match highest...I didn’t see it in the FAQ unless I missed it?!?  After rereading both rules, my thought is no, but want to be clear.

Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot: Pungent Soulscent states “at the start of the combat phase”, if the bladebringer is affected by a KoS command ability to attack twice, do they get to use the Pungent Soulscent twice?  My thought is no, you can’t use Pungent twice, but wanted to verify.

Thanks everyone!! 

Currently all we have to go off of is the FAQ about the realm of metal trait and how it affects changing the dice roll which that only applies if the initial roll before the change was a double. If you go off that ruling then only if re-roll is a double before the dice get changed it would do the mortal wounds But it's GW so who knows for sure.

To your second question you're correct that no it wouldn't since the start of the combat phase is a separate sub phase of the combat phase.

[Kasper]

Have anyone toyed with the Purple Sun of Shyish? On paper it sounds really awesome against Horde armies but also great against really tough stuff like Fyreslayers etc. 50 pts. sounds tempting to me.

[Magnus The Blue]

I've not played it yet, as the 8+ to cast puts me off (probably need Epitome to reliably cast it).

I have notice that all three of the heavily discounted endless spells give -1 to Bravery (Sun, Gravetide and Jaws), so could synergies well with our Bravery focused magic and artefacts.  100 points for all three could be interesting in a caster heavy list and their size allows for some serious movement blocking potential.

Shame they don't give Depravity

Edited July 2, 2019 by Magnus The Blue

[Sobakaa]

Yay, Slaanesh is the 2nd most popular army for ETC this year, only loosing to Skaven by 1 pick! Russian team chose to take Sylvaneth because they are a good counter to what others were likely to bring. Suppose we should expect nerfs to summoning in winter.

[Magnus The Blue]

1 hour ago, Sobakaa said:

Yay, Slaanesh is the 2nd most popular army for ETC this year, only loosing to Skaven by 1 pick! Russian team chose to take Sylvaneth because they are a good counter to what others were likely to bring. Suppose we should expect nerfs to summoning in winter.

ETC isn't a great indicator of power as the matching system means it suits very speicalist armies that excel against some list even if they struggle against others (Slaanesh).

I wouldn't argue against some rebalancing though as our internal balance is way off, almost all chariot options are bad and the non-heros ones are verging on unplayable in matched play (120 points for a 6 wound chariot!). Daemonettes and Helbane are also poor and could shed some points.    Keepers seem are too cheap for me, as our our bestigors but the rest feels ok.

[Sobakaa]

I know ETC is a very specific indicator that the army performs well against something in the meta or, alternatively, is universally good at either attack or defend role (which is rare). We'll see what they were used for when the pairings and the lists get posted. To me it's just a way to see what people have come up with in different metas and it's nice to see an army you play being popular on big events.

[Reezark_SP]

13 hours ago, Draconaught said:

Currently all we have to go off of is the FAQ about the realm of metal trait and how it affects changing the dice roll which that only applies if the initial roll before the change was a double. If you go off that ruling then only if re-roll is a double before the dice get changed it would do the mortal wounds But it's GW so who knows for sure.

To your second question you're correct that no it wouldn't since the start of the combat phase is a separate sub phase of the combat phase.

Tzeentch main here! We have an artifact (Mark of the Conjurer) that's been FAQed to give us 2 Fate points instead of 1 when our casting roll is a double. It uses the exact same wording as the Enrapturess so unless we've been playing our artifact wrong since GH 2018 I would agree that the Enrapturess ability pretty much auto wounds LoC/Kairos. Ouch! 

[Enoby]

Messing around with lists. Feels like there's something missing - maybe too many spells? I chose them over a hero to minimise drops and increase toolbox (purple sun for hearthguard mostly - need a way to soften them up). Also unsure about Kairos - great for spells and dispelling, but maybe too many points for his job? 

Here is the list with the minimal reasoning behind each choice:

Keeper of secrets [for damage, summoning, and locus]
-Thrill seeker
-Thermalrider cloak
-Slothful stupour
-Sinistrous hand

Great bray shaman [for bestigor speed, and maybe devolve through portal if there is nothing better or devolve would bring them in range]

Contorted epitome [for spells, esp horde clearing; spellportal and cogs first turn hopefully]
-Cameo of the dark prince
-Hysterical frenzy

Kairos fateweaver [to cast slothful stupor when needed, plus any other endless spells, and emergency locus]

10 Ungors x3 [cheap bl and screens, and for objectives]

30 bestigors [speedy hammer to run alongside the keeper]

-Endless spells-

Chronomatic cogs [speed]

Umbrall spellportal [teleport my good spells]

Purple sun of shysh [hearthguard killer predominantly; in a unit of 30, it should kill 5 - equivalent to 20mw]

Wheels of excruciation [wizard sniper]

Prismatic pallisade [anti shooting]

Malevolent maelstrom [why not? Likely will not be used, but ah well]

*command point* [for KoS double pile ins in both phases, and the possibility of needing to roll a 6 for bestigors' run]

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Enoby

[Kasper]

Kairos is really tempting to me, however the $$$ and needing to paint such a flashy model is kinda off putting for me atm.

Unfortunately we dont have much to help us cast spells. As Magnus pointed out, getting a 8+ for the Purple Sun is kinda an issue. Im abit afraid of banking so much on spells, yet having not the greatest odds of getting them off. I do like the options against different armies.

You can do some funny stuff with Kairos though, like oneshotting a 6W hero through the spell portal turn 1. 

[Enoby]

1 minute ago, Kasper said:

Kairos is really tempting to me, however the $$$ and needing to paint such a flashy model is kinda off putting for me atm.

Unfortunately we dont have much to help us cast spells. As Magnus pointed out, getting a 8+ for the Purple Sun is kinda an issue. Im abit afraid of banking so much on spells, yet having not the greatest odds of getting them off. I do like the options against different armies.

You can do some funny stuff with Kairos though, like oneshotting a 6W hero through the spell portal turn 1. 

Yeah, I'm very on the fence about him. The reason I included so many spells is that Kairos and the epitome both have high chances to cast those spells, and the opponent may run out of dispells before our really good stuff happens - for cogs, portals, and the spell through the portal, we would have had 4 other spells beforehand, and we can keep the spell caster models out of range first turn. 

 

My biggest issue with my list is going first/second. With 4 drops, I feel I'm too high to usually get first, and so when I'm forced to go second the extra speed isn't as useful. If I dropped Kairos, I'd be able to bring it down to two drops, which makes first turn much more likely (would replace for another contorted epitome and the sybarite battalion, or remove some endless spells and replace for a second keeper and the battalion). 

[Draconaught]

14 minutes ago, Kasper said:

Kairos is really tempting to me, however the $$$ and needing to paint such a flashy model is kinda off putting for me atm.

Unfortunately we dont have much to help us cast spells. As Magnus pointed out, getting a 8+ for the Purple Sun is kinda an issue. Im abit afraid of banking so much on spells, yet having not the greatest odds of getting them off. I do like the options against different armies.

You can do some funny stuff with Kairos though, like oneshotting a 6W hero through the spell portal turn 1. 

I haven't gotten a chance to try him myself but I've been wanting to run Karios as well. Big reason because I "just as planned" myself years ago when they first released because I thought he was a cool model that would let me dabble in DoT and give me a fun caster to ally. Turns out it was a good choice.

From the very limited experience I've gotten with the new book (only 2 games for Forbidden Power at 1.5k points) the Epitome along with our heroes can be enough if spells are an edge to your game plan and not a big part.  I think Karios while really powerful needs to have a plan for him to be worth the points. Something like using gateway to help nuke screens, having better chance at slothful stupor being successfully cast, or even for endless spells.

I was running invaders with sybarites and rod of misuse  in both those games; with the GHB2019 I didn't need the spells as much because I had so many command points I could burn for re-roll ones to hit and save rolls that mystic shield and acquiescence weren't as important. I think he's a really fun powerful addition for us but far from a necessary must include.

[Overread]

Question - what do people think about the various beasts/creatures of Chaos as allies for Slaanesh Hedonites? I'm thinking things like the cheap Cockatrace or the more expensive ones like the Warpfire dragon and Chimera. 

[Enoby]

7 hours ago, Overread said:

Question - what do people think about the various beasts/creatures of Chaos as allies for Slaanesh Hedonites? I'm thinking things like the cheap Cockatrace or the more expensive ones like the Warpfire dragon and Chimera. 

I feel, as it is with a lot of options, our heroes tend to do a better job with the added benefit of allegiance abilities, artefacts, and summoning.

[Magnus The Blue]

Yeah, got to agree. I have had some joy with multiple Cockatrices in Beast, but Slaanesh forces should really be investing points in models that take advantage of our alligence abilities.

[Kasper]

13 hours ago, Enoby said:

Yeah, I'm very on the fence about him. The reason I included so many spells is that Kairos and the epitome both have high chances to cast those spells, and the opponent may run out of dispells before our really good stuff happens - for cogs, portals, and the spell through the portal, we would have had 4 other spells beforehand, and we can keep the spell caster models out of range first turn. 

 

My biggest issue with my list is going first/second. With 4 drops, I feel I'm too high to usually get first, and so when I'm forced to go second the extra speed isn't as useful. If I dropped Kairos, I'd be able to bring it down to two drops, which makes first turn much more likely (would replace for another contorted epitome and the sybarite battalion, or remove some endless spells and replace for a second keeper and the battalion). 

It must be fate - This morning someone put him up for sale at an ok discounted price on Facebook 😂 You should give him a spin and report back!

Edited July 3, 2019 by Kasper

[Xyxel]

How is your experience with Meeting Engagement format for HoS?

So far first 2 rounds are easy for me to score with fast HoS units but after that, its dificult do gain victory points for causing more wounds than the oposite player. Fiends seems like a defensive unit but also look expensive compared to KoS which I'm tempted to squeeze into those 1000 points.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Xyxel

[SwampHeart]

18 hours ago, Enoby said:

Keeper of secrets [for damage, summoning, and locus]
-Thrill seeker
-Thermalrider cloak
-Slothful stupour
-Sinistrous hand

Great bray shaman [for bestigor speed, and maybe devolve through portal if there is nothing better or devolve would bring them in range]

Contorted epitome [for spells, esp horde clearing; spellportal and cogs first turn hopefully]
-Cameo of the dark prince
-Hysterical frenzy

Kairos fateweaver [to cast slothful stupor when needed, plus any other endless spells, and emergency locus]

10 Ungors x3 [cheap bl and screens, and for objectives]

30 bestigors [speedy hammer to run alongside the keeper]

-Endless spells-

Chronomatic cogs [speed]

Umbrall spellportal [teleport my good spells]

Purple sun of shysh [hearthguard killer predominantly; in a unit of 30, it should kill 5 - equivalent to 20mw]

Wheels of excruciation [wizard sniper]

Prismatic pallisade [anti shooting]

Malevolent maelstrom [why not? Likely will not be used, but ah well]

Unsurprisingly I like the list but you've way over invested in Endless Spells. Kairos is a good caster for sure but he's still on a two a turn caster. You're better off picking up a 5th drop or bulking out an Ungor unit and cutting out Pallisade, Maelstrom, and maybe Spell Portal. Kairos' best use of a cast is actually using Slothful Stupor off your Keeper. 

[Midjithero]

6 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

Unsurprisingly I like the list but you've way over invested in Endless Spells. Kairos is a good caster for sure but he's still on a two a turn caster. You're better off picking up a 5th drop or bulking out an Ungor unit and cutting out Pallisade, Maelstrom, and maybe Spell Portal. Kairos' best use of a cast is actually using Slothful Stupor off your Keeper. 

I’ll agree, I think you have too many points in endless spells.  You can only cast 7 spells per turn (until you summon more casters, but that will not be until turn 2 or 3), Have roughly 11 spells available, and probably 4 (cogs/stupor/umbrel/overwhelming acquiescence) that are must cast? 

 I’m currently running Kairos because he’s painted and I didn’t have enough time to buy/paint all the Slaanesh models I want, but he’s become almost a staple for me.   If I ever did drop him, it’d be for either 2 more Epitomes or 1 epitome 1 exalted bladebringer (and find a few more pints)

[Browncoat89]

Hey you guys I had a question and I wanted to see how you guys would rule it. I came across a few artefacts like the Sword of Judgement from the realm of shadows that reads, If the hit roll for this weapon against a monster or hero is a 6+ then it deals d6 mortal wounds and the attack sequence ends. How do you guys think this rule would play in with our exploding 6's? Would it deal d6 mortal wounds then not generate another attack at all because the attack sequence immediately ends, would just that one 6 end it's attack sequence and you roll all the other hit rolls with one additional dice in there from the exploding 6 or, and I doubt it, but would it generate 2d6 mortals. Again I doubt it on that last one just in general wondering how the mortal wounds and ending the attack sequence would factor in with generating extra attacks, thanks.

 

[Kasper]

7 minutes ago, Browncoat89 said:

Hey you guys I had a question and I wanted to see how you guys would rule it. I came across a few artefacts like the Sword of Judgement from the realm of shadows that reads, If the hit roll for this weapon against a monster or hero is a 6+ then it deals d6 mortal wounds and the attack sequence ends. How do you guys think this rule would play in with our exploding 6's? Would it deal d6 mortal wounds then not generate another attack at all because the attack sequence immediately ends, would just that one 6 end it's attack sequence and you roll all the other hit rolls with one additional dice in there from the exploding 6 or, and I doubt it, but would it generate 2d6 mortals. Again I doubt it on that last one just in general wondering how the mortal wounds and ending the attack sequence would factor in with generating extra attacks, thanks.

 

I don't remember what FAQ it was, but it was refering to a similiar event. The result is you get D6 MW + 1 ordinary wound roll from the extra attack. The "attack sequence ends" is for the attack delivering D6 MW, not the additional you get from exploding 6s.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Kasper

[SwampHeart]

6 hours ago, Browncoat89 said:

Hey you guys I had a question and I wanted to see how you guys would rule it. I came across a few artefacts like the Sword of Judgement from the realm of shadows that reads, If the hit roll for this weapon against a monster or hero is a 6+ then it deals d6 mortal wounds and the attack sequence ends. How do you guys think this rule would play in with our exploding 6's? Would it deal d6 mortal wounds then not generate another attack at all because the attack sequence immediately ends, would just that one 6 end it's attack sequence and you roll all the other hit rolls with one additional dice in there from the exploding 6 or, and I doubt it, but would it generate 2d6 mortals. Again I doubt it on that last one just in general wondering how the mortal wounds and ending the attack sequence would factor in with generating extra attacks, thanks.

  

For each 6 you rolled with the Sword of Judgement against a monster or hero (just used here as an example) the following would happen:

-You would deal D6 MWs
-You would roll 1 dice to wound

In effect both 6s proc - you get the SoJ proc and the Euphoric Killers proc. They're both separate - so if you say had 4 3+ attacks with the results of 2, 4, 4, 6 you'd do D6 MWs and roll to wound 3 times. This is per the core rules FAQ.  

[Nokrah]

Hi guys,

I am not into BoC, and was thinking to add StD to my Slaanesh army (std fits well with the lord of pleasure).

what do you think of marauders ? A quick mathhammer suggests flails are better than swords (with the Reroll 1 banner) - any experience with them in a HoS army?

Edited July 4, 2019 by Nokrah

[whispersofblood]

41 minutes ago, Nokrah said:

Hi guys,

I am not into BoC, and was thinking to add StD to my Slaanesh army (std fits well with the lord of pleasure).

what do you think of marauders ? A quick mathhammer suggests flails are better than swords (with the Reroll 1 banner) - any experience with them in a HoS army?

The main problem you are going to have with StD is using the KoS as anything other than a solo beat stick, and Battalions.

On one hand you can get all your heroes into one drop, which is handy. But I would focus and mostly maximizing StD synergies and that you will probably not operate as powerfully as a Hedonite army would.

[Overread]

A joint summoning/model question here.

I'd be curious what you guys are doing with regard to building models, specifically seekers and deamonettes. Both groups have several command options (banners/horns/leaders) and can be taken in large or smaller groups. Now as there is no cost in taking the command upgrades for the unit its prudent to have at least one of each allowed within each unit deployed to the tabletop. However what I'm curious about is how you numerically break this up. 

 

Do you simply build all command options per boxed set;

Do you divide the army into full unit blocks and build one set of command per block (ego 1 set every 30 deamonettes; 1 set every 20 seekers).

Do you never deploy fullsized units and use smaller blocks (10, 20,? ) with full command per block. 

 

And when summoning does this change. Do you find you're pulling in 5 seekers every time  with full command or do you find that they rarely make the battlefield and instead your'e relying on 10 deamonettes, or 20?

[SwampHeart]

14 hours ago, Overread said:

Do you simply build all command options per boxed set;

Effectively this every time - I always build the maximum allowable command per unit. So if I can have 3 banners and 3 musicians in a 30 man unit I do. It is actually a major aggravation for me in AoS - I hate the way it looks but you're hamstringing yourself by not doing so. Having redundant command means you don't have to worry about losing an important banner bonus because you positioned the banner poorly. And when I summon I always have my summons organized in the same way - I have 30 Daemonettes to summon so regardless of if I summon 10, 20, or 30 they'll always have max command options.