AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Wordy9th]

Not sure but a question I did want to ask is if I take chaos warriors as Hedonites it says they must have the mark of Slaanesh. Does that mean they get exploding hits?

[Sonnenspeer]

If yes I would try something like this:

Allegiance: Slaanesh

Shardspeaker of Slaanesh (135)-

General

- Command Trait: Master of Magic

- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)

- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Dark Delusions

Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (245)

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)

- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh

11 x Blissbarb Archers (170)

11 x Blissbarb Archers (170)

20 x Chaos Warriors (400)

- Hand Weapon & Shield

- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh

- Reinforced x 1

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)

10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (330)

- Reinforced x 1

5 x Slickblade Seekers (230)

Prismatic Palisade (40)

Total: 2000

 

[JackOfBlades]

1 hour ago, Sonnenspeer said:

Sorry for my noob question, but are Chaos Warriors also battleline in an Slaanesh army?

48 minutes ago, Wordy9th said:

Not sure but a question I did want to ask is if I take chaos warriors as Hedonites it says they must have the mark of Slaanesh. Does that mean they get exploding hits?

Unfortunately for both of you, chaos warriors dont count as battleline since "Coalition units do not count towards the number of Battleline units in your army." They dont get exploding sixes either since they cant get the HEDONITE keyword.

Of course these things would only apply in 100% matched play, im sure anyone who plays even a little more narratively with you wont mind giving the appropriate keywords and battleline fulfillments.

Edited June 18, 2022 by JackOfBlades

[Sonnenspeer]

32 minutes ago, JackOfBlades said:

Unfortunately for both of you, chaos warriors dont count as battleline since "Coalition units do not count towards the number of Battleline units in your army." They dont get exploding sixes either since they cant get the HEDONITE keyword.

Thank you! That's really bad. But I still think they have exploding 6es as they receive the mark of Slaanesh (in 12" of S2D Slaanesh Hero)

What I don't understand is that Chaos Knights have the remark "Battleline in S2D army" while Warriors are unconditional battleline.

What is the difference?

Edited June 18, 2022 by Sonnenspeer

[JackOfBlades]

1 hour ago, Sonnenspeer said:

Thank you! That's really bad. But I still think they have exploding 6es as they receive the mark of Slaanesh (in 12" of S2D Slaanesh Hero)

What I don't understand is that Chaos Knights have the remark "Battleline in S2D army" while Warriors are unconditional battleline.

What is the difference?

Both the exploding sixes from the mark of slaanesh, and the chaos knights battleline fulfillment, require your army to have the Slaves to Darkness faction (27.0 ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES in the core rules). This requirement is fulfilled if every unit in your army except allies/coalitions has the SLAVES TO DARKNESS keyword.

But since the faction youre using is Hedonites of Slaanesh, which uses the HEDONITE keyword, your army cant use the battle traits from the Slaves to Darkness faction (warriors dont get exploding sixes) and chaos knights wont count as battleline in a Hedonites of Slaanesh army.

Now for a history lesson...

The disclaimer about chaos knights is a bit of antiquated wording made for an older edition, ill try to explain what happened: You used to be able to take the Pleasurebound Warband warscroll battalion in matched play, making the units in it part of the "Slaanesh" faction and gaining the SLAANESH keyword. At this point the HEDONITE keyword didnt exist and it was common for people to fill their battleline with stuff like S2D marauders or BoC ungors, which got the exploding sixes from Euphoric Killers because that battle trait used the SLAANESH keyword. So, chaos warriors could be battleline in a Slaanesh army if you put them in the right battalion, but chaos knights had that disclaimer saying they could only be battleline in a Slaves to Darkness army.

But then they both scrapped warscroll battalions in matched play, introduced the HEDONITE keyword for the Hedonites of Slaanesh army's battle traits, and introduced "coalition" units with their restrictions. After that, S2D battleline units no longer had any avenue to count as battleline in a HoS army nor could they benefit from the Hedonites' battle traits when coalitioned in as they lacked the HEDONITE keyword. This makes the bit about chaos knights being "battleline in a S2D army" redundant today in matched play, since now, no allied/coalitioned units like chaos warriors or marauders or ungors etcetra can count as battleline anyway.

Edited June 18, 2022 by JackOfBlades

[azdimy]

2 hours ago, Sonnenspeer said:

Sorry for my noob question, but are Chaos Warriors also battleline in an Slaanesh army?

They did not count toward your minimum battleline requirement in the previous ghb (no idea if this is changing) but they remain a battleline unit per the latest ghb faq

[JackOfBlades]

7 minutes ago, azdimy said:

They did not count toward your minimum battleline requirement in the previous ghb (no idea if this is changing) but they remain a battleline unit per the latest ghb faq

Where does it say so? i cant find it either here or here but the core rules say "Coalition units do not count towards the number of Battleline units in your army." and the warscroll builder doesnt count them as battleline.

Edited June 18, 2022 by JackOfBlades

[azdimy]

3 minutes ago, JackOfBlades said:

Where does it say so? i cant find it either here or here but the core rules say "Coalition units do not count towards the number of Battleline units in your army." and the warscroll builder doesnt count them as battleline.

From this ruling the the last ghb errata

Q: Are coalition units with the Battleline battlefield role treated as 
having that battlefield role for The Backbone of Success rule in the 
Power in Numbers battleplan?
A: Yes.

 

[JackOfBlades]

1 minute ago, azdimy said:

From this ruling the the last ghb errata

Q: Are coalition units with the Battleline battlefield role treated as 
having that battlefield role for The Backbone of Success rule in the 
Power in Numbers battleplan?
A: Yes.

 

Ah yeah, but that's just a ruling for that one battle plan. As far as i can see, they havent changed the core rules about coalition units not counting toward the minimum battleline you must take.

[azdimy]

1 minute ago, JackOfBlades said:

Ah yeah, but that's just a ruling for that one battle plan. As far as i can see, they havent changed the core rules about coalition units not counting toward the minimum battleline you must take.

Not that I know but at least, from this ruling chaos warriors are battleline in every other aspect in slaanesh so can be GV and fight on 2 ranks

[JackOfBlades]

4 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Not that I know but at least, from this ruling chaos warriors are battleline in every other aspect in slaanesh so can be GV and fight on 2 ranks

I dont think that's what that ruling implies and the warscroll builder doesnt seem to think so either, but i personally wouldnt mind letting someone count their chaos warriors as battlelines in a hedonites army (and give them the HEDONITE keyword) anyway.

Edited June 18, 2022 by JackOfBlades

[azdimy]

3 minutes ago, JackOfBlades said:

I dont think that's what that ruling implies and the warscroll builder doesnt seem to think so either, but i personally wouldnt mind letting someone count their chaos warriors as battlelines in a hedonites army (and give them the HEDONITE keyword) anyway.

The warhammer app implies it that way reinforcing the faq but apparently there are zero mention of coalition units in the latest ghb so this might go away

[Sonnenspeer]

Both the Warhammer App and Warscroll Builder are doing it wrong and count Chaos Warriors as battleline in an Slaanesh army.

😕 This game is too complicated 😕

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

I'm struggling to justify giving over a fair portion of my army to coalition units. I've got a fair plethora of Slaves To Darkness troops all painted up in resplendent Slaaneshi livery, and I adore a lot of the models... but, tactically, they're rather deadwood-ish, aren't they?

Was very disappointed when Euphoric Killers became Hedonites-only. Would dearly love to see some benefit granted to coalition units. 

[azdimy]

It is sad that we were punished for Nurgle and Tzeentch sins who abused the coalition rules. It now means that our coalition heroes can t even get artefacts from our battletome because they are locked in our subfaction keyword.

What the chaos warrior provide is a solid anvil that will last long enough for our summoning units to arrive at a much lower point than painbringers. I ve had good results with a unit of 20 and glutos to make them harder to be hit

[JackOfBlades]

Do you guys think it will be worth it to pay for the new purple sun of shyish, and then summon a contorted epitome to actually cast it (cant fit the epitome into the list)? Or would you be better served scrapping the sun and just summoning 30 daemonettes instead?

Edited June 19, 2022 by JackOfBlades

[Enoby]

11 hours ago, JackOfBlades said:

Do you guys think it will be worth it to pay for the new purple sun of shyish, and then summon a contorted epitome to actually cast it (cant fit the epitome into the list)? Or would you be better served scrapping the sun and just summoning 30 daemonettes instead?

I do think Endless spells may be more worth it now, but I think the jaws may be more reliable than the sun. I think the wheels are also good. Both of these have a high chance to do at least 1mw on any unit, compared to the more swingy purple sun. The visage may be good too for its strike last ability. The Epitome is more attractive now I think, and Glutos isn't a bad caster either. 

[Wordy9th]

Had a game on the first battleplan with all the new GHB and points last night.

Took Contorted epitome and Purple sun, Siggy, blissbarbs, krondspine, all in battle regiment with Slickblades and 10x Twinsouls in Bounty Hunters.

This was against a 2k OBR army which had 30 / 20 Mortek guard and all the usual.

It was a hilarious game. Purple sun was dispelled every time (he took it too) by both of us so we never got to see it. The highlight which won me the game was managing to get the krondspine in on 30 Mortek after Arkhan failed his mystic shield (!), getting the roar off so he couldn't reroll saves, and managing an 11 inch charge with the twinsouls which walked right past his screen and ended up killing 22 Mortek Guard with their 3 damage each bounty hunter bonus. Without that roar or 11" charge I wouldn't have counted on me winning the game, but it sure demonstrated the damage they can do now. 

My slickblades managed to charge the other 20 Mortek Guard but with reroll saves they didn't do a whole lot, even with the Keeper I summoned making them attack twice and their +1 damage from bounty hunters.

Being able to summon Daemonettes to drop GV units anywhere you need is useful, and Hellstriders with whips are still always overperforming for me.

[JackOfBlades]

3 hours ago, Enoby said:

I do think Endless spells may be more worth it now, but I think the jaws may be more reliable than the sun. I think the wheels are also good. Both of these have a high chance to do at least 1mw on any unit, compared to the more swingy purple sun. The visage may be good too for its strike last ability. The Epitome is more attractive now I think, and Glutos isn't a bad caster either. 

I was thinking of the purple sun in particular because of its new save malus aura. I havent done any calculations, but i imagine it would help out slaaneshi units quite a bit as they arent exactly overflowing with rend.

Ive also noticed people tend to run symbaresh twinsouls as 10, have you ever tried them as 15?

Edited June 20, 2022 by JackOfBlades

[Wordy9th]

Yeah the purple sun's application giving blissbarbs -2 rend, or twinsouls -1 rend(!) is amazing on paper. It's an 8 casting value, which is why I took an Epitome for the reroll casts and the Krondspine for the +1, though I was against Arkhan who has a No Fun Allowed policy on spells so I didn't get to see it in action :(.

I wouldn't take them in 15 for a couple of reasons.

1) too many points in one place, Slaanesh likes to have lots of min sized units running around for more depravity generation

2) Overkill. You will be very hard pressed to get all 15 in combat, on who you want and where you want. 

I also rarely use any command points on Twinsouls. I usually just rely on their reroll hits to do work and save those command points for else ware.

 

[Carnith]

Messing around with a magic heavy list where I didnt take a lot of vets and play the defensive game. 

 

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Invaders Host
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs:
The Contorted Epitome (255)
- General
- Command Trait: Skin-taker
- Artefact: The Rod of Misrule
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (475)
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Dark Delusions
11 x Blissbarb Archers (170)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (135)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (135)
5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)
5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)
Krondspine Incarnate of Ghur (400)
- Allies
Wheels of Excruciation (100)
Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (55)

Total: 2015 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 76
Drops: 1
 

One drop with everything going inside Battle Regiment. Move up in a sort of castle formation. 

[ibel]

Hi Guys,

What do u think About following List:

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)

- Mortal Realm: Ghur

- Grand Strategy: No Place fort he Weak

 

Leaders
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (470)*
- Host Option: General
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Battle Rapture
Lord of Pain (140)*
- General
- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation
- Artefact: Oil of Exultation
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (245)*
- Host Option: General

Battleline
5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*

22 x Blissbarb Archers (340)*
- Reinforced x 1

10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (330)*
- Reinforced x 1

Endless Spells & Invocations
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000 Punkte
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
Drops: 1

 

I mean, if u get the First turn u easyly get 12 DP with Geminis punished yourself.... 

What do u think about the Idea with Geminids punished your owne Units ?!?! i mean on a 2+ just 1 Mortal is nize or not ?!

[azdimy]

Now these point changes are worthwhile:

Blissbarb 140

Sigvald 205

Painbringers 120

Twinsouls 130

[ibel]

11 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Now these point changes are worthwhile:

Blissbarb 140

Sigvald 205

Painbringers 120

Twinsouls 130

Maybe to Much for the first step, but jes:

I think the Points had to go a littel bit down again.

Blissbarb 150

Sigvald 225

Painbringers 125

Twinssouls 135

Seekblade S. 200

Blissbarb Archer 180.....

With Points like this we are Abel too fit 1 or 2 more Units in our Army (on 2k) so we are Abel to Play the DP-Summoning Game...

[azdimy]

3 minutes ago, ibel said:

Maybe to Much for the first step, but jes:

I think the Points had to go a littel bit down again.

Blissbarb 150

Sigvald 225

Painbringers 125

Twinssouls 135

Seekblade S. 200

Blissbarb Archer 180.....

With Points like this we are Abel too fit 1 or 2 more Units in our Army (on 2k) so we are Abel to Play the DP-Summoning Game...

I should have been more clear, these are the new ghb points gw just released online!