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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion


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I do think that bumping up summoning costs and dropping actual points costs would be an okay bandaid patch to make the book function in the interim would be okay, but it would be a bandaid and I think the book has fundamental design flaws beyond that which are going to be tricky to address without a total overhaul.

Ultimately the summoning mechanic skews the design of the book too heavily, and it's a mechanic which wants you to play intrinsically opposite to how games of AoS are won.

Whilst we're wishlisting I'd love to see better access to the triple tap 6s from the battle trait, right now only daemonettes can realistically use then, and on their weak profile it only really pushes them up to 'okay.'  Give me a spell, or CA, or locus effect to turn it on, or something.  Speaking of spells I'd honestly love to see a smaller list of better options, the new IDK spell lore only has four options but they're all useful, no point printing twelve spells if, like, eight of them don't do anything.

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8 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

Whilst we're wishlisting I'd love to see better access to the triple tap 6s from the battle trait, right now only daemonettes can realistically use then, and on their weak profile it only really pushes them up to 'okay.' 

I'd like that as well - I think that it potentially could be a bonus given from the hosts. Currently, hosts give you extra ways to get depravity, which is fine but not super exciting. 

I'd like it if it was something like (imagine it's worded better):

Invaders: Units wholly within your opponent's table half and wholly within 12" of one of your generals treat hit rolls of 6 in melee as 3 hits rather than 2".

Pretenders: Units wholly within 12" of your general treat hit rolls of 6 in melee as 3 hits rather than 2. In addition, before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to your general, if a friendly Slaanesh Pretenders unit is within 3" of your general, you can roll a dice. On a 1-2, the wound or mortal wound is allocated to your general as normal. On a 3+, you can allocate the wound or mortal wound to the friendly Slaanesh Pretenders unit within 3" instead.

Godseekers: Units that made a charge move this turn may treat hit rolls of 6 in melee as 3 hits rather than 2. 

Pretenders gets the biggest buff here, but to be honest, I think it needs it. The other two give benefits to the rest of your army, but Pretenders just means you rely on, at best, a Keeper of Secrets surviving with some middling command traits and artifacts.

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Sure, something like that works fine too, there's 100 ways you could write more exciting rules, just very few of them are in the battletome!

Also I agree that the Keeper should stay in the 400+ points range but with the rules to match its price tag, I know they're probably afraid of rehashing the 2019 Keeper spam of yore, but it's a very different game these days!  Also, also, Shalaxi has got to be the least cost effective model in the game, all the other other named greater demons are at least interesting, we can do better than the current scroll, I'm sure!

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The old Keeper had an issue in that all the depravity was based purely on heroes and being able to CA itself meant that you could get a load of depravity from one model. However, they then changed depravity to be non hero dependant and then still nerfed the Keeper for the Locus and the CA, while also increasing its points. It didn't need all of that in one hit

Shalaxi is just awful though, supposed to be a killer of Bloodthirsters yet with only 1 attack on the spear is utterly unable to actually do that in the game with any degree of consistency. 

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30 minutes ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

Shalaxi is just awful though, supposed to be a killer of Bloodthirsters yet with only 1 attack on the spear is utterly unable to actually do that in the game with any degree of consistency. 

Shalaxi could really take a thing or two from the Beast Skewer Killabow where it does damage based on the enemy's wounds. Not necessarily the exact same rule, but something that means that one attack is always a brutal one. 

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I think all Keeper claws should gain 2 attacks and only degrade to a minimum of 3 damage just to make them less swingy - their spike damage is great but how often do you get more than one hit/wound through with the claws? For most I'd wager it's not a common occurrence, and while Damage 5 is impressive, Rend -2 really isn't as scary as it used to be.

The same logic applies to Shalaxi. Give that spear an extra two or three attacks if you want to keep the rest of the profile the same.

To note, I think if GW commits to making all greater daemons ~500 point power-houses (it'd be odd if the Great Unclean One was the exception, but there's no reason there can't be variance) the Keeper should be the hyper mobile and deadly scalpel to the GUO's slow yet absurdly tough brute. It should be terrifying. Currently, it's way too swingy, and even with optimal rolls it's certainly not the damage you'd expect from a 420 point model.

Edited by Jaskier
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Oh yes.

I think the main problem with the book is that we live in a world where the designer looked at the sword in the Keeper of Secrets hand, stroked their chin, and said "Minus one rend" to nods around the table.

"Claws? Well, it has two of them, so that must mean two attacks."

That profile gets me every time.

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I really don't understand giving the keeper and its variants so few attacks. I get that when it first hit the scene it had some of the best damage potential from the few swings it made, but power creep has made the competition do just as much damage per swing in some cases with far more attacks. Even presuming a keeper rolls 6's on all its attacks we're not even approaching the output of some of the units from recent books that cost half the points.

Ultimately, we're overcosted and under-synergized. We were clearly designed for 2.0, when low rend mattered and we had 6" pile-ins from the seeker cavalcade. All that's left is unreliably effective summoning for mediocre units, in an army that doesn't start with enough on the board to create enough momentum press the advantage. 

My main issue is that GW seems to be aware of the problems, and just... doesn't care. Seeing the lukewarm bones we've been thrown it just seems to me that they've prioritized keeping us chained to an extremely limiting core mechanic at the expense of any real effectness. I still try to do what I can with the tools we have, but it has definitely hamstrung my enthusiasm for the game for the time being.

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1 minute ago, CeleFAZE said:

I really don't understand giving the keeper and its variants so few attacks. I get that when it first hit the scene it had some of the best damage potential from the few swings it made, but power creep has made the competition do just as much damage per swing in some cases with far more attacks. Even presuming a keeper rolls 6's on all its attacks we're not even approaching the output of some of the units from recent books that cost half the points.

Ultimately, we're overcosted and under-synergized. We were clearly designed for 2.0, when low rend mattered and we had 6" pile-ins from the seeker cavalcade. All that's left is unreliably effective summoning for mediocre units, in an army that doesn't start with enough on the board to create enough momentum press the advantage. 

My main issue is that GW seems to be aware of the problems, and just... doesn't care. Seeing the lukewarm bones we've been thrown it just seems to me that they've prioritized keeping us chained to an extremely limiting core mechanic at the expense of any real effectness. I still try to do what I can with the tools we have, but it has definitely hamstrung my enthusiasm for the game for the time being.

I think they do care, the problem is our summoning mechanic inherently ruins army balance - it's far more scaleable than most other armies' equivalents, so simply doing major points cuts across the board (as is the norm for an underperforming faction) could easily torpedo them straight to the top tier. 

Like, you could cut 20-30 points off every unit in the army and most of them would still be overpriced relative to similar units from other factions, but that could also be the aforementioned tipping point where the army suddenly becomes overtuned due to getting 1500+ points of free models per game (even accounting for the 1 per turn limit on summoning.) 

That's the price we pay for our book being designed entirely around a summoning mechanic as opposed to other armies (like Khorne, Nurgle, etc) that use summoning as a secondary army mechanic. It likely can't and won't be fixed just by doing point changes. It's "better" than the old book in terms of being fun to play with and against and being less matchup-dependent, but the evolution of other battletomes and the core rules has really exposed how systemic the problems with Slaanesh truly are. A White Dwarf update would need to do a lot of heavy lifting to fix it, hence why I think that a battletome is probably coming next year (but not this year; Skaven are due first.) 

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9 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

Ultimately, we're overcosted and under-synergized. We were clearly designed for 2.0, when low rend mattered and we had 6" pile-ins from the seeker cavalcade. All that's left is unreliably effective summoning for mediocre units, in an army that doesn't start with enough on the board to create enough momentum press the advantage. 

Unfortunately so - it's a shame that they focused so much on summoning to the detriment of other parts of the army, leaving it feeling quite bland and very hard to balance for. 

There are good points of the army, but the summoning caused a good chunk of issues for the designers:

- If units are cheap and decent, and the more decent units you have the more you summon, then summoning can get out of hand quickly. Thus, they need to artificially inflate the points, which doesn't feel good for anyone.

- They may feel restricted on the power of the summoned warscrolls, not wanting anyone to get something amazing for free. 

- Every mechanic in the army has to account for summoning, ensuring it doesn't break it, and thus often leading to over-balance and lack of synergy.

For players, summoning causes other issues:

- You have to buy more than other armies, and things like a KoS are expensive.

- A lot of people only like the mortals, but daemons are manditory to play with. Imagine if Iron Jawz allegiance ability was focused around summoning Bonesplittaz - they're both orks in the same book, but they look so different that fans of one may not like the other.

- It's hard to transport the army - not only do you need to bring 2000 points, you probably need another 1000 at least for summoning if you want to take full advantage of it. 

- Playstyles often have to play to maximise summoning, which isn't always a bad thing, but it can lead to samey games.

The more I think about it, the more I'd like summoning to be a small or optional add on and for the army to just function on its own without being pigeonholed to bringing certain models. Especially as summoning isn't particularly tied to Slaanesh's lore moreso than any other Chaos God. I spoke a while ago about why summoning became so prevalent, but I hope they choose to build passed it next time.  

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Summoning, not just for Slaanesh but as a general rule, should be designed around getting to summon one extra unit during a game, maybe two to three if you can build a 'Summoning list by sacrificing other elements of list composition.  There should not be a situation where you can bring on 50% of your lists points (or more!) onto the board mid-game, it's either going to be overtuned and horrible to play against, or undertuned and horrible to play with.  

 

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27 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

Summoning, not just for Slaanesh but as a general rule, should be designed around getting to summon one extra unit during a game, maybe two to three if you can build a 'Summoning list by sacrificing other elements of list composition.  There should not be a situation where you can bring on 50% of your lists points (or more!) onto the board mid-game, it's either going to be overtuned and horrible to play against, or undertuned and horrible to play with.

Nurgle has struck a pretty good balance, in my opinion. If you don't focus on summoning, you will probably get a min-size unit of Plaguebearers turn 2, which is relevant, and something else turn 4/5, which is probably not. But you don't need to rely on your summoning to play the game. If you want to lean hard into summoning, you can do that, too. And you will get some good stuff on the board pretty flexibly that way. But it's not nearly as overtuned as old Slaanesh's one Keeper of Secrets per turn that high-end lists could pump out.

I think the margin of error for summoning mechanics is really razor thin. Larger or smaller numbers on one side reach a tipping point really quickly. For Slaanesh currently that point is on the side of the line where you don't start with enough bodies and risk getting steam rolled, sadly. And there is the added downside that you can neither play pure mortals (because you have to summon demons to be successful) nor pure demons (because they are overcosted to compensate for summoning).

There are case studies available in AoS for instances where nerfing a summoning mechanic made the army better and more fun. The most recent example is Legions of Nagash/Soulblight. The general of a Legions of Nagash army used to be able to resurrect full-sized units for a command point. That encouraged huge blocks of units, hoarding command points (because nothing else came close in value to resurrecting something like 30 Grimghast Reapers) and building death stars (because the general had to stay alive at all costs).

Now in Soulblight Gravelords, only half-sized units get resurrected, and it happens on a die roll in the battleshock phase. That means the army is now free to run smaller units, spend command points freely and spread out around the board, resulting in much more diverse lists and more dynamic games. You can't as easily strategize around your summoning, but it is still free value and likely contributes in each game. Having an upper limit on summoning is nice, too, since each unit can only get resurrected once. Gravelords are also allowed stronger warscrolls and better allegiance abilities as a result, because not everything is warped by the overwhleming power of their summoning.

I really hope GW eventually cracks the nut of how to make Slaaneshi summoning work. Before they figure that out, I think Slaanesh will always be either over- or underpowered.

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In addition to what has been already stated. One of the problem I have playing hedonites in a tournament setting is that :

1 it requires me a full 3hr to play most of my game to the end while most 1 day event I go to only give us 2.5hrs to play due to store hours so it limits my tournament play with them to 2 day events. Note that I have no problem finishing games in 2.5hrs with other factions I play. This is mostly due to our summoning mechanic I suspect. As opposed to other factions the later turns take longer than the early turns.

2- in the event that the game needs to be talked through to figure out the final score as we are out of time. Our summoning make it almost impossible to be taken into account when not playing the turn and not aleady on the table so we just go by what the score is when the time ends and what is on the table. It has never been in Slaanesh favor. This has been particularly frustrating for me when I see I have enough depravity to turn the tides in the turn we will not play hence issue #1

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6 minutes ago, azdimy said:

In addition to what has been already stated. One of the problem I have playing hedonites in a tournament setting is that :

1 it requires me a full 3hr to play most of my game to the end while most 1 day event I go to only give us 2.5hrs to play due to store hours so it limits my tournament play with them to 2 day events. Note that I have no problem finishing games in 2.5hrs with other factions I play. This is mostly due to our summoning mechanic I suspect. As opposed to other factions the later turns take longer than the early turns.

2- in the event that the game needs to be talked through to figure out the final score as we are out of time. Our summoning make it almost impossible to be taken into account when not playing the turn and not aleady on the table so we just go by what the score is when the time ends and what is on the table. It has never been in Slaanesh favor. This has been particularly frustrating for me when I see I have enough depravity to turn the tides in the turn we will not play hence issue #1

You hit the nail on the head for my tournament experiences. I even find myself summoning suboptimally near the end of my tournament games due to time constraints and not wanting to seem like I'm slow-playing intentionally. Rather than a 30-strong daemonette unit that will eat up a disproportionate amount of remaining time I'll bring on a keeper, as it's just a single model and speeds things up, even if it's not the best choice.

I'm in the process of getting movement trays made, but combined with splitting fire and having to be very careful with our movement it takes me an embarrassingly long time to get through a game.

Edited by CeleFAZE
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Also, when Battle Tactics rely on being completed by units from your Starting Army, your only real use for a lot of the decent summons (30 Daemonettes) is to hold an objective, but you might not score tactics with that unit which can the difference between winning and losing. 

At this point you seem to lose far more from summoning units than you actually gain (in some ways). 

Drukhari in 40 have a Power from Pain rule where they get bonuses as the game goes on (kind of like DoK do) I wouldn't be against something like that rather than having summoning as being the crutch we're meant to rely on. Slaanesh has such an amazing model range that it would be really cool to see it all on the table at the start and not relegated to "might make an appearance at some point depending on what I need/packed in my army case".

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24 minutes ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

Also, when Battle Tactics rely on being completed by units from your Starting Army, your only real use for a lot of the decent summons (30 Daemonettes) is to hold an objective, but you might not score tactics with that unit which can the difference between winning and losing. 

At this point you seem to lose far more from summoning units than you actually gain (in some ways). 

Drukhari in 40 have a Power from Pain rule where they get bonuses as the game goes on (kind of like DoK do) I wouldn't be against something like that rather than having summoning as being the crutch we're meant to rely on. Slaanesh has such an amazing model range that it would be really cool to see it all on the table at the start and not relegated to "might make an appearance at some point depending on what I need/packed in my army case".

I feel like 40k Drukhari are a great template for what Slaanesh should feel like as an army, basically applying something like Glutos has to the whole army. Maybe even based on currently accumulated depravity points, similar to how Big Waaugh works. It would be a cool way to differentiate the hosts too, if each one had a different "track" that the buffs followed (though I don't know if I trust GW not to make at least one host absolute trash again in that paradigm, so I may have talked myself away from it).

Also Slaanesh daemons, despite only being a subfaction of the larger daemon book are excellent in 40k, basically one of the only daemon builds that is still pulling decent tournament results. It's worth noting that their summoning isn't "free" points like in AoS, where it's effectively more like reserved points for an on-the-fly sideboard. If anyone else was around in the wild west of AoS 1 that was basically how the community made summoning work when it came down to us to figure out a system of balance on our own (one that GW eventually adopted and expanded on to create modern matched-play).

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On 3/21/2022 at 2:05 AM, Enoby said:

 We can only hope that means it's more likely we get a Beasts of Chaos style White Dwarf update (their win rate is now 45%). 

Let's hope for a very significant drop in the GHB. Maybe, if we're very lucky, a Slaangor rewrite.

re: Slaangor be still my beating heart... 

On 3/18/2022 at 2:41 AM, zombiepiratexxx said:

Let's definitely hope its more of a BoC White Dwarf update rather than a BoK update! 

Yes yes, we all hope that.  However; Regarding the BoC update it was 2 phases.  the Broken Realms which gave a couple nice little buffs to Warherd and Thunderscorn (still unsure if the Gor change really means anything other than "oh,.. um okay").  

Then we got a WD that pardon me if I speak incorrectly on this (kids sick, i'm sick, boss is sick) but gave a blanket 4+ rally for the army as well as some more buffs, that were in particular fairly helpful for the game system (monsters, etc).

I feel I'm mostly seeing those two factions, in large numbers AND i'm seeing tournament results from players who were long time champions of the army.  I've played them since 2003 and the thing I've always noticed is GW is completely clueless about them AND they attract a significant number of hobbyist and competitive players alike.  The player base is a relatively good community.  So there are people around to leverage these benefits and for us to have these results in the visible channels. 

What we saw, uh 3 years ago? with the first Slaanesh was bandwagon hoppers following people like Rhelion who gets the game very well, buys an army, and dominates, but moves on when the army is balanced out in any manner.  I mean, there are a couple champions here (enoby, celefaze) but since AoS was out there are few other long timers in the slaanesh thread.  

GW will still want us to buy new kits.

 

TL;DR: blah blah blah  :P

 

On 3/21/2022 at 6:04 AM, azdimy said:

 they really need to look at the deamon side of the army. 

100%  I have a mostly daemon army and given all the things in the world and my life I don't want to buy a new half of an army when I'm really fond of the large amount of Juan Diaz sculpts in my army.  I want to use what i have not replace it nor say SWEEPING COMMENTS OF DOOM like "I've moved on from this army" O.o 

 

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I'm in the process of gearing up for a really... odd skew list. Our biggest issues (aside from general overcosting) tend to be resilience, and dealing with enemy resilience. So I decided, what the hell, why not lean into mortal wounds to a ridiculous degree:

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot (265)*
- General
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Artefact: Enrapturing Circlet
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation

Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot (265)$
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon

Synessa, The Voice of Slaanesh (260)*

Battleline
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)$
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)$
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)$

Units
1 x Exalted Chariot (200)*
1 x Exalted Chariot (200)*
1 x Exalted Chariot (200)*
1 x Exalted Chariot (200)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
The Burning Head (20)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
$Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 83 Drops: 2

Synessa is there to provide a little bit of ranged mortals, as well as to be a flexible way to issue commands to my non-hero exalted chariots. She's also our least expensive source of slothful stupor, which I want to have on hand to counter khorne daemon princes specifically, as their command ability really messes with my capability to do what I need to do.

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10 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

I'm in the process of gearing up for a really... odd skew list. Our biggest issues (aside from general overcosting) tend to be resilience, and dealing with enemy resilience. So I decided, what the hell, why not lean into mortal wounds to a ridiculous degree:

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot (265)*
- General
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Artefact: Enrapturing Circlet
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation

Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot (265)$
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon

Synessa, The Voice of Slaanesh (260)*

Battleline
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)$
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)$
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)$

Units
1 x Exalted Chariot (200)*
1 x Exalted Chariot (200)*
1 x Exalted Chariot (200)*
1 x Exalted Chariot (200)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
The Burning Head (20)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
$Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 83 Drops: 2

Synessa is there to provide a little bit of ranged mortals, as well as to be a flexible way to issue commands to my non-hero exalted chariots. She's also our least expensive source of slothful stupor, which I want to have on hand to counter khorne daemon princes specifically, as their command ability really messes with my capability to do what I need to do.

Are you putting this army together? I have nightmare after the 1st bladebringer I assembled and seeing how there s no way it fits on the oval base it comes with makes me cry

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3 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Are you putting this army together? I have nightmare after the 1st bladebringer I assembled and seeing how there s no way it fits on the oval base it comes with makes me cry

I found a decent 3d printing proxy for the chariots, which streamlines the process significantly. I may not have a high self-esteem, but I don't hate myself enough to assemble 4 more of the official hand-murdering nightmare machines.

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8 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

I found a decent 3d printing proxy for the chariots, which streamlines the process significantly. I may not have a high self-esteem, but I don't hate myself enough to assemble 4 more of the official hand-murdering nightmare machines.

I have the biggest love/hate relationship with my 2 exalted chariots, I love them but hate building or even playing with them because of how much hangs off the base

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I'm finally getting a chance to attend a tournament instead of run one this weekend and decided to dust of the hedonites and shelve my soulblight for a bit. Faaaar from an optimal list but I'm a bit limited by my collection and I just kinda want to have a keeper play cheerleader for Sigvald while he cuts through the many nurgle armies that are attending.

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (265)*
- Host Option: General
The Contorted Epitome (255)*
- General
- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation
- Lore of Slaanesh: Hysterical Frenzy
Keeper of Secrets (420)*
- Sinistrous Hand
- Artefact: Oil of Exultation
- Spell: Progeny of Damnation

Battleline
11 x Blissbarb Archers (170)*
11 x Blissbarb Archers (170)*
5 x Hellstriders with Hellscourges (135)*
5 x Hellstriders with Hellscourges (135)*

Units
10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (330)*
- Reinforced x 1

Endless Spells & Invocations
Dreadful Visage (90)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1970 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89
Drops: 1

 
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15 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

I'm finally getting a chance to attend a tournament instead of run one this weekend and decided to dust of the hedonites and shelve my soulblight for a bit. Faaaar from an optimal list but I'm a bit limited by my collection and I just kinda want to have a keeper play cheerleader for Sigvald while he cuts through the many nurgle armies that are attending.

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (265)*
- Host Option: General
The Contorted Epitome (255)*
- General
- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation
- Lore of Slaanesh: Hysterical Frenzy
Keeper of Secrets (420)*
- Sinistrous Hand
- Artefact: Oil of Exultation
- Spell: Progeny of Damnation

Battleline
11 x Blissbarb Archers (170)*
11 x Blissbarb Archers (170)*
5 x Hellstriders with Hellscourges (135)*
5 x Hellstriders with Hellscourges (135)*

Units
10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (330)*
- Reinforced x 1

Endless Spells & Invocations
Dreadful Visage (90)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1970 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89
Drops: 1

 

Not a terrible list. You've got all your bases covered, with a notable focus on double-attacking with Sigvald. Just remember to be careful with outflanking the twinsouls, as that will prevent them from getting their buff going if they're not on the board during your hero phase.

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5 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

Not a terrible list. You've got all your bases covered, with a notable focus on double-attacking with Sigvald. Just remember to be careful with outflanking the twinsouls, as that will prevent them from getting their buff going if they're not on the board during your hero phase.

Yeah as much as I want to avoid them getting shot off it's better they start with the ward and tank some shooting so that sigvald and the keeper can go in. Sigvald double tapping is the goal but the keeper can use the charge reroll if Sigvald doesn't need it to get int, eat some damage for Sigvald and prevent pile-ins from hitting back too hard if I can tag squads of blight kings or hearth guard on their flanks.

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