Enoby Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 36 minutes ago, Lightbox said: Yeah having looked over the lord of pains warscroll again he does seem like a decent hero for 1k, being somewhat survivable and having a nice little command ability buff. And with him unlocking the battleline twinsouls I can see why you went with it. How swingy did you find sigvald and the slickblades? My main concern, especially with the slickblades, is whiffing in combat a lot and then getting curbstomped by whoever I charged. I presume the reasoning behind sending Siggy and the slicks into combat together was to help mitigate that? Yeah, Sigvald and Slickblades shouldn't both whiff (hopefully) and will attack one after the other after Sigvald charges. As long as you have a spare command point for their battleshock, an All Out Attack on the Slickblades should mean they get most of their hits through at least. Sigvald is usually tanky enough to survive a round with most things at 1k points, and they're both damaging enough to take out any scalpel parts of the opponent's army. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elazar The Glorified Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Meant to write about my game against Maggotkin last week. Used the below list... Faction: Lurid Haze Grand Strategy: Hold the Line Battle Regiment: Keeper of Secrets - Shining Aegis Lord of Pain - General - Oil of Exultation, Feverish Anticipation Lord of Pain 22 Blissbarb Archers 10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 10 Symbaresh Twinsouls No Battalion: Sigvald My opponent had something like: The Glottkin Bloab Rotspawned 10 Blightkings 5 Blightkings 5 Blightkings We rolled Marking Territory as the battleplan. It was immediately apparent that we both had lists that were going to lead to an absolutely brutal throwdown in the middle of the board. Spoilers - that's what happened! Not sure what the battalion layout was like for the Maggotkin but I know I had less drops with the 2 and I chose to go second. Sigvald disappeared into the mists to redeploy, declining to take any friends with him. My opponent's first turn was mostly spent pressing up. For my first turn I decided that Shock and Awe was the order of the day so went for Bring It Down as my Battle Tactic aiming for Bloab Rotspawned but it was fully my intention to get him and hopefully The Glottkin too if I could, or at least significantly hurt the big brute! There were a couple of challenges to that though. Firstly the Cycle of Corruption started at Nauseous Revulsion (-1 to charges and pile-in moves can't end closer to Nurgle units) also Blitzkrieg on The Glottkin was impacting my thinking perhaps a little more than it ought to... One unit of Twinsouls and the General moved up my left to go tackle Bloab (they had reroll hits for this turn) and the other unit on my right moved up to tackle The Glottkin (they had the ward). The other Lord of Pain and the Keeper moved up with them. The Glottkin had 15 Blightkings supporting and Bloab had 5 so decided that even though the Keeper wouldn't be supporting much this turn that's where the Twinsouls would need the most help. The Blissbarbs kept themselves at max range of Bloab to support the effort to score our Battle Tactic and Sigvald came on behind The Glottkin. So I had set up Sigvald and the supporting Twinsouls to trigger Blitzkrieg. I was less concerned about the Twinsouls as they were in range for the support they needed and didn't gain any massive bonus from the charge (beyond the impact that no pile-ins might have). Sigvald however really needed the drop on whatever he was going to fight. Thankfully the 10 Blightkings failed their charge at Sigvald with a reroll and the Glottkin failed his at the Twinsouls. Shooting saw the Blissbarbs take 8 wounds from Bloab and so when the Twinsouls went in there they were able to kill him and get my Battle Tactic. They took some damage from the Blightkings escorting Bloab but nothing substantial as they were slightly too far away before their pile-in to maximise their attacks thanks to the angle they took to get to Bloab. Sigvald and the Twinsouls both made their charges into the Glottkin. Sigvald would drag both units of Blightkings on that side into combat with him due to the narrow gap he had to charge through but with a natural roll of 10 he was able to put a lot of wounds onto The Glottkin who was rendered relatively ineffective as a result and thanks to their ward saves the Twinsouls remained effective enough to wipe out his remaining wounds. Siggy then tanked a lot of attacks from the Blightkings but maxed out his Disease counters so was took a pasting from those but survived on a couple of wounds. A decent trade-off to get the brothers Glott out of the way before they could do anything impactful! The first turn shock and awe did exactly that so it was always going to be a bit of an uphill struggle for my opponent after that but I'm very impressed by Blightkings in general. They take a punch, dish out plenty of attacks and with the various avenues they have for delivering Mortal Wounds, I was never able to truly stretch the game beyond my opponent but because he couldn't quite get away from me either I was able to cap objectives with summons and the support characters skirting around the edges of the huge melees between Blightkings and Twinsouls and was able to grab the auto-win on this battleplan. Probably my last time using the Keeper in a starting list. Between it failing to cast anything and my reluctance to commit it into combats as I knew it wouldn't win it really didn't contribute much other than an Excess of Violence (that might have been key had the main victory condition not been triggered) that allowed my Twinsouls, fresh from killing The Glottkin and some summoned Nurglings, to pile-in to the Blightkings that Sigvald had been entertaining to kill a unit and get my Battle Tactic that turn. The only wounds the Keeper took were from its miscasts (yes plural, ugh!) and Disease tokens but it didn't do a great deal otherwise and that I still had no confidence in it at 420pts is the final nail in its coffin I think. Sigvald can be a bit hit and miss but when there's stuff like The Glottkin on the board he's such a great piece for trading up! He was abnormally tanky in this game between All Out Defence, Finest Hour and some very fortunate dice rolling so he looked after 15 Blightkings for a while whilst my Twinsouls worked their way into the combat. The Twinsouls hit like a ton of bricks (even missing rend) and having the two Lords of Pain was really useful for making sure both units were always rerolling in every combat. What there isn't a substitute for is the turns they don't have their ward saves as that's when the Blightkings could really press their advantage in the combats. Speaking of the Lords of Pain, as far as cinematic moments go. The final combat we resolved was the non-General Lord of Pain surrounded by about 8 Blightkings by that point. He gave a decent account of himself and there's nothing like the sheer weight of dice being thrown at him there to see the benefits of the Share The Pain rule! I found that unlike my first game against the new Maggotkin, I didn't accrue much depravity with this list. I managed to summon 10 Daemonettes who were key in just sitting on an objective in my opponent's territory that he couldn't get back to. Everything tended to die if it was taking damage, certainly on my side and there weren't many units on the board to begin with. Quite enjoyed the list, it's a little one-dimensional in what it does but was fun going toe-to-toe with an opponent a little more than I normally would other than with Glutos! Will have to tweak it for the next game but not sure what direction to take with the points saved on the Keeper... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbox Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 So I discovered today that myrmidesh arms work really well on hellstriders. Gives them a nice knightly feel imo. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elazar The Glorified Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 So I've been giving a lot of thought to how to expand the below based on my last game (couple of posts up) before my next game (not sure what army I'm up against so thinking more of where are the obvious gaps for a balanced list) Lurid Haze Lord of Pain - General - Feverish Anticipation, Oils of Exultation Lord of Pain Sigvald 10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 22 Blissbarb Archers The Keeper of Secrets is out so I have 425pts to play with. I feel like I'm hitting a bit of a wall for inspiration the obvious gaps are either a Wizard, something speedy for objective grabbing and rapid support, and perhaps an anvil unit of some kind as the Twinsouls can't be everywhere. My concern over the Wizard element is wanting something reliable as another character forces me to two drops - not a deal breaker but comes with its risks as I prefer the security of usually picking who goes first. Does anybody have any suggestions to try? Otherwise my instinct is to make room for Glutos again at the cost of one of the Lords of Pain as he does a couple of those jobs on his own and the trade off in hitting power from the constant rerolls is a little more durability from his -1 to hit bubble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azdimy Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 21 hours ago, Elazar The Glorified said: So I've been giving a lot of thought to how to expand the below based on my last game (couple of posts up) before my next game (not sure what army I'm up against so thinking more of where are the obvious gaps for a balanced list) Lurid Haze Lord of Pain - General - Feverish Anticipation, Oils of Exultation Lord of Pain Sigvald 10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 22 Blissbarb Archers The Keeper of Secrets is out so I have 425pts to play with. I feel like I'm hitting a bit of a wall for inspiration the obvious gaps are either a Wizard, something speedy for objective grabbing and rapid support, and perhaps an anvil unit of some kind as the Twinsouls can't be everywhere. My concern over the Wizard element is wanting something reliable as another character forces me to two drops - not a deal breaker but comes with its risks as I prefer the security of usually picking who goes first. Does anybody have any suggestions to try? Otherwise my instinct is to make room for Glutos again at the cost of one of the Lords of Pain as he does a couple of those jobs on his own and the trade off in hitting power from the constant rerolls is a little more durability from his -1 to hit bubble. Glutos is a good pick taking the space of 1 lord of pain. He is our best caster, he is not slow with run and charge starting turn 2 and can be an anvil on it s own. If you don t mind fielding allies, belakor is also a good pick. You d go to 2 drops but his dark master ability helps offset the one drop adantage 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I went to Warhammer World (actually the day Henry Cavill was there but I didn't see him) and I gave Hedonites a game vs Gloomspite. - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh - Army Type: Invaders - Subfaction: None - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumph: Inspired LEADERS Glutos Orscollion (475)** - Spells: Battle Rapture Lord of Pain (155)** - General - Command Traits: Glory Hog - Artefacts of Power: The Rod of Misrule Shardspeaker of Slaanesh (150)** - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome - Spells: Judgement of Excess BATTLELINE 5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145) 5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145) 5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (135) 10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (330)* OTHER 5 x Slickblade Seekers (230)* 5 x Slickblade Seekers (230)* TERRAIN 1 x Fane of Slaanesh (0) CORE BATTALIONS - *Hunters of the Heartlands - **Command Entourage TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000 It was a fun game, though Gloomspite were tabled turn 4. I won't go over a step-by-step of the game, but I will make a few comments: - Painbringers were surprisingly good, able to tank light hits well; I wouldn't say they're super tanky, but are great at holding up a medium threat and doing some good damage in return. - The Twinsouls were caught in a corner and pretty badly injured turn 1, though did eventually break through. Not a great showing by them, but that was mostly on their positioning. - Glutos was MVP; very tanky, killed quite a lot, dispelled and cast a bit too. Imo, he's one of the few models in Hedonites that I'd call truly strong. - Slickblades were good, though can't take a hit back; buffed by the Lord of Pain, they killed the mangler squig, which was nice. - The Shardspeaker died turn 1, so not much to say about her. - Hellstriders were used to draw the fanatics out and then die. They did their job. - The summoned KoS fluffed its attacks, but its command ability was pivotal for winning the game. It's not worth the points, but is worth the summon. - Lord of Pain was their for battleline, but I did use his command ability a few times with good results. --- Gloomspite are undeniably a bad army (they don't call it "The Good Moon" for a reason), but I did often feel lacking in damage. I think that is part of the design philosophy (to maximise DP), but it's frustrating against glass cannons. Personally, I can't see any of my more competitive list not including Glutos. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeleFAZE Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) A bit of last minute painting before representing as the only Slaanesh player at a 2-day tourney this weekend. She's absolutely getting shot off the board turn 1, but I still wanted to give her a try. Edited February 25, 2022 by CeleFAZE 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombiepiratexxx Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Lovely model! Which is pretty much what you have to say about Slaanesh at this point, amazing model line, just a bit cack on the tabletop lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 On 2/25/2022 at 8:31 AM, CeleFAZE said: A bit of last minute painting before representing as the only Slaanesh player at a 2-day tourney this weekend. She's absolutely getting shot off the board turn 1, but I still wanted to give her a try. She looks great! Also, off the topic of the game but still interesting, Josh Raynolds was talking about what BL books have sold well this year and he actually said Darkly Dreaming was his best selling audio book this time around. Doesn't mean all too much, but maybe it might persuade more Slaanesh work in the future... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wordy9th Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) Hey guys, if I’m looking to start collecting slaanesh does anyone have any suggestions on what to go for? I’m thinking the shadow and pain box and the blade carnival with sigvald? I’m a fan of big boxes for value but I’m open to suggestions. I’d like it to have it reasonably competitive (though I’m well aware of slaanesh’s relatively low power level at the moment), with suggestions for base army and models for summoning and what to buy for it. cheers! Edited February 27, 2022 by Wordy9th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Just now, Wordy9th said: Hey guys, if I’m looking to start collecting slaanesh does anyone have any suggestions on what to go for? I’m thinking the shadow and pain box and the blade carnival with sigvald? I’m a fan of big boxes for value but I’m open to suggestions. cheers! The Slaanesh Christmas battle box, if you can find it, is probably the best bargain you can find - everything in there (besides Slaangors) can be used to good effect That, a start collecting (for summoning - half of Shadow and Pain could also work if you can split the box) and Sigvald would easily make a 1000+point army. Other things to look at in the future would be: - A Lord of Pain - Additional Twinsouls up to 10 (you want a unit of 10) - Glutos (very strong all rounder) - Keeper of Secrets (this is usually just for summoning though so don't feel as if it needs to be an instant buy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeleFAZE Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 So, the tournament was an interesting experience. I had a lot of stuff to do outside of the game, so I ended up bringing a list based on what I had on hand already painted to a minimum standard. I went 1-4, though two games were entirely decided on 1 agonizing wound remaining on the targets of my battle tactics at the end, which was the difference between what happened, and what would've been a 3-2. In light of failure I'm always looking to improve, so I've been compiling some notes on battle tactics, which are absolutely the most important part of this edition. I was originally just doing this for myself as a way of sitting down and pouring through the rules to improve on my game in a meaningful way, but after giving it some thought, I realized that our little community here could benefit from discussion on these points, as we tend to get really fixated on units and combat effectiveness, which while important is actually pretty secondary to winning the game at this point. Without further ado: Battle Tactics: For ease of mentally mapping these I've separated them into easy categories, so I can remember what I can do based on function rather than just eight individual points on a list. These categories are: Kill Stuff: These are exactly what they say on the tin. You call your shot like an overconfident baseball player, and take down your target of choice. Each one of these has some nuances that make them tricky, easy, or even literally impossible depending on the situation. These are tactics of opportunity, making them first priority when the chance arises to make them happen with near certainty. Bring It Down -Literally impossible to do if your opponent has no monsters. A second, more literal version of impossible if your opponent has no monsters or mages. -Even when you have potential targets, that doesn't mean they are good targets. Don't recklessly call this on a healthy monster unless you are more than statistically likely to take it down. Dice are evil. You will roll ones. You will roll twos when you bought insurance on those ones with acquiescence. Be certain your target is going down or you risk throwing the game on hubris. Which I'll admit is a pretty Slaaneshi way to go, but it doesn't help your winrate any. -Defensively, don't get cocky and overextend your own monsters to try and nab a cheeky extra point on a kill stuff tactic. At best you'll hand your opponent a monster kill point. At worst you'll hand your opponent two extra points if they use their own monster to render yours into a greasy smear as the target of their own Bring it Down. Slay the Warlord -Never technically impossible. Everyone has one chosen general, so everyone has the capacity to be a target of this. -Not impossible is not synonymous with probable, however. There are many tough characters in the game, and the vast majority of the weird and wacky means to cheat death are based on characters, and generals more specifically. Don't go charging into Archaon just because if you win you'll get some decent points. He will ruin your day. Which to him, was just a Tuesday. -Defensively, you can make your general tough as nails, or very difficult to reach. Unfortunately for us we have a very limited list of characters that fit that description, primarily Glutos for resilience and Synessa for ability to still contribute to the battle while she's off sipping pina coladas on a hammock in the far corner of the board. You might be asking "but if we make a named character our general, won't be miss out on a warlord trait?" Very true. What's also true is that many of our warlord traits are garbage, especially if you're running one of our super-special sub-sub-factions. In lurid haze I've forgotten my warlord trait more often than I've used it, and I'll eat my non-existent hat if that's not a similar experience for most of you. The fact of the matter is this: make your warlord hard to kill, whatever that means for you. Broken Ranks -In the world of kill stuff tactics, this is the favorite child. The one that should be showered with affection and has the best prospects for a successful future. The one all its siblings resent deeply, but can't help but silently admire. -This is another one that is never impossible, unless you've murdered every potential target for it. Every army needs battleline, and frequently the throwaway chaff units are battleline. -However, sometimes those battleline units are ****** dragons. While frequently the monsters that can be fielded as battleline are of the squishier and less lethal variety, in many cases they are a nightmare of resilience. Or a nightmare of offensive capability. Or they're ****** dragons and can eat their cake and somehow have more of it than they started with after everything is said and done. The world is cruel. Again, never call this unless you are certain you can kill your target. -This one is tough for us defensively. Our battleline is either paper-thin with some degree of punch (in the base of blissbarbs) squirrely and mildly resilient on paper but will fold pretty fast to sustained abuse (hellstriders), or somewhat tanky and punchy, but require a general that is just dying to have his head mounted on your opponent's trophy wall (myrmadesh and symbaresh). This may be one you'll have to assume is going to be difficult to deny your opponent in most cases, but you can make clever use of redeploy and all out defense to try and eke out a chance of survival. Or run your battleline close to Glutos and make your melee opponents frantically scroll through rules in frustration. I guess what I'm saying here is that Glutos is a very solid entry for us competitively right now in terms of defensively denying kill stuff tactics. Objective Stuff: This is the second tier of priority in most cases. While you want to snatch up your kill stuff opportunities as soon as they present themselves, as you may not get a second chance to make a sure kill, these are more bread-and-butter kinds of tactics that are going to be easier to do but still require good selection to ensure you can make them happen with certainty. Monstrous Takeover -The battle tactic with a trust fund. The one who skates through life without a care in the world, and less regard for their place in it. It's easy, is what I'm saying. That is, if you have a monster. Not a wizard who has a non-zero chance to completely botch the monsterification process, I mean a monster. -This can be done on an objective in your own territory, as long as you have a monster to plant on it, and none of your opponent's around to cramp its style. In fact, you don't even need to control the point, just contest it, so it just kind of auto-completes as long as your big little helper doesn't dirtnap before the end of your turn. -This is a good one to do early if you have the ability to do so, as you don't want to leave this one on the table in the event that your monster comes down with an unforeseen case of arrows to the chest and has to take a surprise sabbatical before you have a chance to use it. -This one is less easy to do in certain scenarios, such as when objectives spawn in later in the game, but for most battleplans you're going to have good opportunities for this if you're running Synessa, who can just tip the edge of her base onto the objective and maintain a fair amount of bufferzone from the enemy. Conquer -Not quite the walk in the park that Monstrous Takeover is, but usually not terribly difficult to do early. Many opponents will try to get a leg up on objectives early, and so if you spot something with limited defense sitting on an objective you can reach with the numbers to easily capture it, this is probably going to be your go-to. Unless it's battleline, a monster, or for some weird reason the opposing general, then go for a Kill Stuff tactic to capitalize on your golden opportunity. Aggressive Expansion -This one is highly battleplan dependent. It's usually not hard to snag objectives early with our speed, and in missions with multiple objectives in the middle we can usually commit enough forces to sit on them for a turn and cap them before we face harsh criticism in the form of dice-based simulated violence. -If you have to fight off opposing forces to get those objectives, consider conquer instead. If the battleplan is one that causes objectives to disappear past a certain point, whether by burning or in the case of the vice, then jump on this before it ends up being impossible to complete. That is, if it is certain you can do so. Other Stuff: The third tier of priority when it comes to battle tactics. These can generally be done at any time, as long as you still have enough starting units to do so. They'll usually be relatively easy, so it's not a terrible idea to save these for those turns when you have no other good options. Ferocious Advance -So easy a caveman could do it. That caveman is not likely to be doing much else while doing so however. -Not a good idea if you need a certain run roll to achieve it. You want to be able to make this happen with your base movement +1". Move the slowest unit of the chosen three first, or you might accidentally wind up in a situation where you've outrun your ability to keep all three units in the 3" triangle of success. -Excellent for units that can run and still do stuff. Wonderful for blissbarb seekers and archers in particular, since they can do this and contribute to the fight at a distance. -Don't take three monsters just to do this tactic. All the monsters we have access to are fragile at best, and tissue-paper in a windstorm at worst. Taking three monsters, unless one is a wizard, one is Belakor, and the other is Synessa is just asking for your opponent to snap up free monster kill points. One point is not worth ceding three. This is the way. Savage Spearhead -We're fast enough that the opponent's territory, especially in the late game, is practically free real estate. -Another "in case of emergency select battle tactic" choice, which is best saved for when you've exhausted all your sure bets in priority tiers one and two. You don't want to fire this one off early when you could've capitalized on a more specific opportunity and end up having to pick uphill fights as your endgame choices. Learn from my failures. -Again, don't take monsters solely for this kind of tactic. You don't want two monsters overextending into your opponent's territory for one bonus point while potentially ceding far more. If you have a safe opportunity take advantage, but don't make it a suicide run. Hopefully my commentary on these was helpful. Again this is mostly me just collecting my own thoughts on the matter for self-reference, but I wanted to share this in hopes that it might help anyone else who has struggled with modernizing their play for the current edition. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elazar The Glorified Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) Great post @CeleFAZE, totally agree that this edition is often about making good choices around your battle tactics. I think it's a useful exercise to consider how your list might deal with scoring these as you're writing it as a priority and how you might mitigate against some scoring for your opponent as a secondary thing personally. Whilst some of the opponent's tactics can be considered at list building stage not all of them can be and to me that side is mostly about thinking on your feet to make whatever your opponent has chosen more difficult in whatever way you can. However, the Battleline point is definitely a good one to keep in mind and the more games I've played with Hedonites in this edition the more I've tended to reinforce my Battleline units so that there aren't any easy choices for my opponent early on. I've certainly pulled back on using Hellstriders as their main benefit was from screening etc and I think there are probably better choices in our Coalition and Allies choices for that than a Battleline unit that your opponent can get VP for killing. Otherwise though, I'm a big fan of making sure there's always a Command Point left for a key Redeploy etc to mess with any plans your opponent might have to get at a unit and kill it. From my experience that sort of thing can often be the turning point when your opponent is forced to either pass up those points or now over-extend to score them (which links to your point on making sure you can reliably kill a unit as the dice may be unkind etc. can your opponent do anything that will make it hard or impossible to score? Always factor in All Out Defence etc. But also, my game I posted about with Maggotkin a couple of weeks ago was an example of this. My main aim for the first turn was to neutralise the Glottkin but I couldn't bank on being able to do it with Blitzkrieg an option for them to charge themselves into the ambushing Sigvald or out to the flank and take themselves out of reliable charge range of everything else but units outside of Blitzkrieg range were more viable targets). This can look different depending on the circumstances and battle tactic they pick though, maybe it's healing your General with a Heroic Action or Rallying the remnants of a Twinsouls unit locked in combat that your opponent thought might be an easy Battleline kill without having to do anything. Be'lakor and Glutos can be quite good for these shenanigans too. We often talk about Be'lakor neutralising the biggest nasty in the enemy list but sometimes (especially those games that don't have an Archaon etc on the table) his ability to potentially stop a unit moving or fighting can be the difference between a tight game and a win/loss. Glutos is a bit more niche but if you have him as your General or you have one of our Hedonite Monsters within 12" of him you can put Gorge on Excess on it in your Hero Phase. It lasts until your next Hero Phase so can make these feel like less attractive targets. If your opponent is going second in the Battle Round and so has the chance for the Double Turn and is potentially committing multiple units to taking that target out it can have some value as they'll have to get their combat order choices right or risk you healing up off the squishier units they maybe put in to try and tip a combat. Bonus points if you can trigger this and be in range of a Keeper! Lots of planets needing to align to make massive use of it in this context but certainly not one to sleep on, especially if you're hoarding VP and have obvious targets for your opponent to pick in their turn! I do agree that the bonus Monster scoring can often feel like a trap and I certainly would only be trying for the Monster condition if my list was going to have one in anyway and it was a relatively risk-free bonus. I can't say I've been using Monsters in my Hedonites too often since nearer the beginning of the edition as the extra VP that's potentially up for grabs for each one that dies from Predators and Prey on top of any of the Battle Tactics and their bonuses for monsters often feels too steep a price to pay for what monsters can do. I think the armies that do Monsters best are usually the ones that can really lean into it (my other army is Beasts of Chaos so I can get my Monsters kicks there!) But also, don't forget yours and your opponent's Grand Strategy and all the other elements of scoring for the Battleplan. For a lot of them there's 3VP for the Primary Objective and 2 for your Battle Tactics on offer each turn. You've then got your bonus 3VP at the end for Grand Strategy to add on top. Ideally you want to be thinking a turn ahead as much as you can too. If you score the Primary this turn does it weaken you for the following turn etc? Are you better forgoing some of the 3VP on that to score a Battle Tactic that will also cripple your opponent's scoring the following turn? Can you mess up your opponent's Grand Strategy if you pass up on the Battle Tactics this turn? Will any of the Battle Tactics be viable next turn? If not can you max out your scoring this turn to prepare for a bit of a fallow turn the one after (and use that turn to disrupt your opponent's scoring to keep a net lead etc)? We'll not have long before we move out of the current GHB and need to rethink some of this though. Very curious to see what we end up with next and the impact that had in game and on our list building! Edited February 28, 2022 by Elazar The Glorified 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wordy9th Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 In a fit of hedonistic excess, I bought a bunch of stuff today: Spoiler Glutos Sigvald Keeper of Secrets Sybarite Blade Carnival Warcry sybarite box (11 blissbards + 5 painbringer/twinsouls) Shadow and Pain boxed set Start collecting: demons Any ideas for lists / strategies for this bunch? Cheers! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elazar The Glorified Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) @Wordy9th Sounds like a great splurge with plenty for you to try out and see how you like it Based a little on my last list, maybe something like: Glutos Sigvald - General Lord of Pain - General 10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 5 Myrmidesh Painbringers 22 Blissbarb Archers 5 Slickblade Seekers I really like them in a Battle Regiment for being able to deploy them in one drop and hopefully controlling the choice of who has first turn, but if you wanted to use more of your other characters instead of the named ones then the other battalions start to have some use. Making them Lurid Haze to ambush Sigvald is probably the key to getting the best use out of him and because they're an Invaders force, Sigvald and the Lord of Pain can be your generals to benefit from making the two Warrior types Battleline and getting the extra Depravity whilst Sigvald is in the opponent's deployment zone. The Lord of Pain's Command Ability is great on the Twinsouls on the turns they don't have rerolls from their Fractured Souls ability and on the other turns if Glutos is in range he's a great target for the rerolls instead (or the Slickblades but I work to the assumption they're potentially more out on a flank). You've also got plenty of options from your Daemons for your summoning as the depravity piles up. Edited February 28, 2022 by Elazar The Glorified 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azdimy Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 3 hours ago, CeleFAZE said: Savage Spearhead -We're fast enough that the opponent's territory, especially in the late game, is practically free real estate. -Another "in case of emergency select battle tactic" choice, which is best saved for when you've exhausted all your sure bets in priority tiers one and two. You don't want to fire this one off early when you could've capitalized on a more specific opportunity and end up having to pick uphill fights as your endgame choices. Learn from my failures. Great post, thanks for sharing. Let s not forget savage spearhead, monstruous take over and ferocious advance cannot be achieved by summoned units as they specify units from your starting army. I usually select savage spearhead early on for that reason with monstruous takeover and eventually ferocious advance if I don t have anything better to do Extra points: Broken ranks - Likely the easiest.I tend to see if a battleline has already sustained damage or if I can concentrate fire to get that one. We don t have very killy units like other books do to guarantee this one. If the opportunity is there, I ll favor a monster to attenpt to finish it off. Don t forget the spell to turn into a monster for this one Bring it down - more poiints as you re also killing a monster and get a bonus point here. Same idea as broken ranks. Our army is typically unable to kill the big monsters from full health. I ll deal some damage in previous turn and select the tactic later on, killing units in multiple turns play alos toward our depravity generation. Again, spell to turn into a monster can net you that extra point here Slay the warlord - Many armies have now god like characters counting as a second general although slay the warlord applies to their chosen general. I ll tend to not even bother with that one until the end unless I see an opportunity and there are no other general in the army so my opponent effectively loses a CP per turn. Lurid haze is great for that against opponent who take cheap support piece as their general and screen poorly but it s pretty rare List building My favorite monster we can take: Belakor (need to try Synessa soon bur dark master is so key as our army typically cannot survive a double turn and belakor helps with that a ton) My chosen general : Glutos(our command trait and artefacts are bad) He almost never dies. He survived a gotrek at my last event. Opponents underrestimate him because nobody play hedonites and usually lose 2VPs on that one. He does decent damage supports other units cam turn himself into a monster for an extra vp and his warscroll spell is clutch against the big baddies we cannot deal with Battlelines: our battleines are weak and I typically only prevent my opponent to score broken ranks with a good roll on a redeploy ( I always will spend the cp on the redeploy) Grand strategy: predators domain is the easiest we can achieve by process of elimination because our summoned units can contribute to its success 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeleFAZE Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 14 hours ago, Elazar The Glorified said: Great post @CeleFAZE, totally agree that this edition is often about making good choices around your battle tactics. I think it's a useful exercise to consider how your list might deal with scoring these as you're writing it as a priority and how you might mitigate against some scoring for your opponent as a secondary thing personally. Whilst some of the opponent's tactics can be considered at list building stage not all of them can be and to me that side is mostly about thinking on your feet to make whatever your opponent has chosen more difficult in whatever way you can. However, the Battleline point is definitely a good one to keep in mind and the more games I've played with Hedonites in this edition the more I've tended to reinforce my Battleline units so that there aren't any easy choices for my opponent early on. I've certainly pulled back on using Hellstriders as their main benefit was from screening etc and I think there are probably better choices in our Coalition and Allies choices for that than a Battleline unit that your opponent can get VP for killing. Otherwise though, I'm a big fan of making sure there's always a Command Point left for a key Redeploy etc to mess with any plans your opponent might have to get at a unit and kill it. From my experience that sort of thing can often be the turning point when your opponent is forced to either pass up those points or now over-extend to score them (which links to your point on making sure you can reliably kill a unit as the dice may be unkind etc. can your opponent do anything that will make it hard or impossible to score? Always factor in All Out Defence etc. But also, my game I posted about with Maggotkin a couple of weeks ago was an example of this. My main aim for the first turn was to neutralise the Glottkin but I couldn't bank on being able to do it with Blitzkrieg an option for them to charge themselves into the ambushing Sigvald or out to the flank and take themselves out of reliable charge range of everything else but units outside of Blitzkrieg range were more viable targets). This can look different depending on the circumstances and battle tactic they pick though, maybe it's healing your General with a Heroic Action or Rallying the remnants of a Twinsouls unit locked in combat that your opponent thought might be an easy Battleline kill without having to do anything. Be'lakor and Glutos can be quite good for these shenanigans too. We often talk about Be'lakor neutralising the biggest nasty in the enemy list but sometimes (especially those games that don't have an Archaon etc on the table) his ability to potentially stop a unit moving or fighting can be the difference between a tight game and a win/loss. Glutos is a bit more niche but if you have him as your General or you have one of our Hedonite Monsters within 12" of him you can put Gorge on Excess on it in your Hero Phase. It lasts until your next Hero Phase so can make these feel like less attractive targets. If your opponent is going second in the Battle Round and so has the chance for the Double Turn and is potentially committing multiple units to taking that target out it can have some value as they'll have to get their combat order choices right or risk you healing up off the squishier units they maybe put in to try and tip a combat. Bonus points if you can trigger this and be in range of a Keeper! Lots of planets needing to align to make massive use of it in this context but certainly not one to sleep on, especially if you're hoarding VP and have obvious targets for your opponent to pick in their turn! I do agree that the bonus Monster scoring can often feel like a trap and I certainly would only be trying for the Monster condition if my list was going to have one in anyway and it was a relatively risk-free bonus. I can't say I've been using Monsters in my Hedonites too often since nearer the beginning of the edition as the extra VP that's potentially up for grabs for each one that dies from Predators and Prey on top of any of the Battle Tactics and their bonuses for monsters often feels too steep a price to pay for what monsters can do. I think the armies that do Monsters best are usually the ones that can really lean into it (my other army is Beasts of Chaos so I can get my Monsters kicks there!) But also, don't forget yours and your opponent's Grand Strategy and all the other elements of scoring for the Battleplan. For a lot of them there's 3VP for the Primary Objective and 2 for your Battle Tactics on offer each turn. You've then got your bonus 3VP at the end for Grand Strategy to add on top. Ideally you want to be thinking a turn ahead as much as you can too. If you score the Primary this turn does it weaken you for the following turn etc? Are you better forgoing some of the 3VP on that to score a Battle Tactic that will also cripple your opponent's scoring the following turn? Can you mess up your opponent's Grand Strategy if you pass up on the Battle Tactics this turn? Will any of the Battle Tactics be viable next turn? If not can you max out your scoring this turn to prepare for a bit of a fallow turn the one after (and use that turn to disrupt your opponent's scoring to keep a net lead etc)? We'll not have long before we move out of the current GHB and need to rethink some of this though. Very curious to see what we end up with next and the impact that had in game and on our list building! I appreciate the insights. I didn't touch upon grand strategies in my write-up as I felt that was worth its own post. Generally I've been favoring prized sorcery as it's the easiest to achieve in my lists, which almost always include Synessa. I used to do predator's domain, but it's heavily summoning reliant, and there are some games where I only get enough depravity to summon one unit, and Synessa lives to the end in 99% of my games. This edition has been a huge shift, and having not had the opportunity to play as much of it as I did 2nd edition I've found the battle tactics to be my biggest stumbling block. Grand strategies with canny opponents are usually hard to counter outside of very grave errors, either in picking one that rests on a shaky foundation or one that requires action during the game to achieve rather than preservation of list elements that can be screened effectively (though I've found pavane from Synessa to be very useful in reaching characters that are otherwise out of range for anything else). I'm in the process of converting my own counts-as Glutos, and plan to use them as my general until things change significantly for us, as resilience is just too important in this edition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbox Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Does anyone know how well Synessa & Dexcessa fare in Slaaneshi lists? I really like their models but I'm not too sure how useful they are without a ward save for survivability. Granted I don't usually face shooting heavy lists but my tactical play still needs a lot of work so would be good to know how difficult they are to get their points worth out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeleFAZE Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Lightbox said: Does anyone know how well Synessa & Dexcessa fare in Slaaneshi lists? I really like their models but I'm not too sure how useful they are without a ward save for survivability. Granted I don't usually face shooting heavy lists but my tactical play still needs a lot of work so would be good to know how difficult they are to get their points worth out of them. I still have yet to build Dexcessa, so I can't say much about her from experience, but I will say that Synessa makes her way into nearly all of my tourney lists. She's an excellent vehicle for heroic actions to generate command points due to her infinite range on issuing commands, and being able to cast pavane from outside most unbind ranges is an excellent way to generate depravity and harrass heroes from a distance. Being able to do all of this from extreme range also gives her a measure of safety, helping to ensure prized sorcery is maintained if you choose that for your grand strategy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koala Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 So i did a thing... 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryPanda Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 7 hours ago, Koala said: So i did a thing... How’d you do the leopard cloak? I’m considering doing one as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koala Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Thank you for the question. Yellow basecoat, random black spots paint in (slightly red) brown spots, so that on one side it connects to the yellow basecoat. Then shade and edgehighlights according to taste. Originally i did the brown spots first and then used a black highliner to do the black borders... slightly nicer/more controlled but WAY more work. Also you have to seal in the highliner as it tends to rub off. So not suggested. As can be seen on my keeper. That coat cost me ages! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wordy9th Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Just a couple rules questions guys: Sigvald's 'fight first at the start of the combat phase if he's charged'. Does this mean I can attack with him, and then immediately with another unit if it's my turn? If not, what's the benefit of this? The Keeper's CA. Can I use it to make Sigvald immediately attack after his start of the combat phase activation? Or do I have to wait until my next activation, after the opponent's? Does it also count as a full activation in itself? Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 27 minutes ago, Wordy9th said: Sigvald's 'fight first at the start of the combat phase if he's charged'. Does this mean I can attack with him, and then immediately with another unit if it's my turn? If not, what's the benefit of this? Yes, you can fight with Sigvald and then something else so it's pretty strong 27 minutes ago, Wordy9th said: The Keeper's CA. Can I use it to make Sigvald immediately attack after his start of the combat phase activation? Or do I have to wait until my next activation, after the opponent's? Does it also count as a full activation in itself? You can use the Keeper's command ability to attack twice in a row, and it counts as an activation. So it would go like this: - Sigvald charges - Sigvald fights first - Keeper uses their CA - Sigvald fights again - Opponent fights 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azdimy Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 27 minutes ago, Wordy9th said: Just a couple rules questions guys: Sigvald's 'fight first at the start of the combat phase if he's charged'. Does this mean I can attack with him, and then immediately with another unit if it's my turn? If not, what's the benefit of this? The Keeper's CA. Can I use it to make Sigvald immediately attack after his start of the combat phase activation? Or do I have to wait until my next activation, after the opponent's? Does it also count as a full activation in itself? Cheers! Yes to all three questions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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