AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[KrispyXIV]

44 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

Dumb question; I just bought 3 Slaangors for 40% off due to the Christmas box; is it worth offering a box of Blissbarb archers NiB (in shrink wrap) for another 3 NoS? Are the points down enough to be usable? Plus I just love the look of them. 

Their points are down enough that they outperform the damage output of Daemonettes, point for point, if they charged.  And that is more or less the only favorable comparison I can come up with.  

Get them because you love the models, theres still no argument for fielding them ever. 

[Feorag]

1 hour ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

Dumb question; I just bought 3 Slaangors for 40% off due to the Christmas box; is it worth offering a box of Blissbarb archers NiB (in shrink wrap) for another 3 NoS? Are the points down enough to be usable? Plus I just love the look of them. 

Unfortunately Slaangor aren't worth running even at 130 points, hellstriders, seeker chariots, and of you have some more spare points twinsouls and Myrmidesh are far better! 

[AmonRa]

Without a whole scroll rework at what price point would slaangors be worth it?

 

I honestly can't see anything above 75 as reasonable.

[Enoby]

16 minutes ago, AmonRa said:

Without a whole scroll rework at what price point would slaangors be worth it?

 

I honestly can't see anything above 75 as reasonable.

They're in a really weird position - I think all models have a role when they're first designed, and should be judged on that role. For example, no one says Pink Horrors are bad because their damage is low, they're good because they hold an objective really well. 

Slaangors are meant to be a glass cannon, but fundamentally fail at this role because of their very poor damage. To take another example from our book, Slickblades are also glass cannons but actually have decent damage (but perhaps not worth the cost). Something like Slickblades could well be worth it should their points be reduced a little because they have the opportunity to be successful at their role. Slaangors on the other hand will never be a good glass cannon because of their pitiful damage and middling speed. Even if Slaangors cost 100 points, they may do okay damage for their points at that level on a charge (and better with a LoP buff) but realistically they wouldn't complete their desired role and would just be non-battleline cheap chaff that can sting a bit. So I think the answer to "when are they worth it" is "when do they beat out the other forms of cheap useless screening chaff"?  

To give you a greater look at my reasoning with some numbers: unbuffed, their average damage vs a 4+ save is 3.8. On a charge it's 5.3. On a charge when rerolling all hits (an extra 150 pts investment), their average damage is 7.3.

To compare, 10 Daemonettes have an average of 4.67 against a 4+ save. That's not to mention they are faster, battleline, and much higher bravery. They have 5.83 when on +1 to hit. In the most common cases, daemonettes are better in all ways including damage. 

As such, Slaangors can't really be "good" at any level for their role of an offensive unit, but rather "good" in that they can become about as cheap as gors and we use them for the same purpose - chaff. 

I have no clue how they messed this warscroll up that badly. It's one of life's great mysteries... 

[CeleFAZE]

19 hours ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

Dumb question; I just bought 3 Slaangors for 40% off due to the Christmas box; is it worth offering a box of Blissbarb archers NiB (in shrink wrap) for another 3 NoS? Are the points down enough to be usable? Plus I just love the look of them. 

The only reason to use slaangors at the moment is if you really like the models and want to play at a handicap. I've tried to find a use for a lot of the pieces available to us, and slaangors just don't do much of anything well, and even at 130 I just can't recommend them at all. Which is a huge shame, as they're one of the best sculpts in the new lineup.

 

On 12/25/2021 at 3:09 AM, Pompe said:

What's the general opinion on Slickblades? I've not had the chance of fielding them. Are they worth their points? It seems like a good unit to go snipe backyard objective holders. 

And has anyone found a good way of dealing with double Maw-crushas? I went 3-2 on a tournament a month ago and that was the only game I felt that I had no real answer to my opponents that. Other than Gotrek, Glutos seems to be a good answer to any and all threats. 

Slickblades can do some definite work, but as others have mentioned they really shine with rerolls (acquiescence, LoP), a hit or wound buff (invaders artifact, dark delusions, AOA, shardspeaker), and/or a double pile-in from a keeper. They operate best when you can reduce incoming attacks as despite their decent wounds they're startlingly fragile, so in a situation where they won't be your first pick for attacker you'll want a locus buddy to minimize damage.

Even without buffs they can be great in the right situations. Slickblades were amazing in my last game against Skaven, basically tore through an entire flank on their own with minimal support.

[azdimy]

On 12/26/2021 at 11:28 AM, TimeToWaste85 said:

Dumb question; I just bought 3 Slaangors for 40% off due to the Christmas box; is it worth offering a box of Blissbarb archers NiB (in shrink wrap) for another 3 NoS? Are the points down enough to be usable? Plus I just love the look of them. 

Currently not worth it. But who knoes what gw will do to them in the future. I have 6 myself all on sprues

[AngryPanda]

If there is one thing I learned about life and the internet in general, is that everyone has an opinion, and that they usually treat said opinion is fact (ironically this statement mimics this concept). 
 

However, in very rare instances people universally come together and agree to something. When this happens, it’s very likely what is being agreed upon is completely factual, or so fundamentally misunderstood that we as a society or group have failed to some capacity.
 

The universal agreement that Slaangors are bad is most likely the first. They’re so bad, there are no counter arguments, nothing that can be said to support them; there’s nowhere where I’ve seen anyone ever mention that they’ve had success with Slaangors, ever. If GW were to release a survey that asked us what unit was the biggest success, and which was the most disappointing, I guarantee Slaangors will be the winner. 
 

GW is very, very stubborn when it comes to changing warscrolls. I don’t know why, but they are very keen on keeping warscrolls the same through updates despite some obvious flaws (Blades of Khorne mortals have needed serious help for a very long time). I don’t expect Slaangors to get much love in the future, maybe if we are incredibly lucky in an update will see something, but I doubt it.
 

The upside, however, is that the battlebox that was released comes with only one squad, which is perfect if you just want to own the models. Also, they’re pretty good in warcry, which is a great game to play if you only want to have quick skirmishes with your Slaanesh models; that’s where I plan to use my Slaangors. 

[Cataphract]

How many Daemonettes is it reasonable to have on stand by for summoning? I have 60+ Daemonettes and wondering if I should trade some off. 

[ibel]

8 hours ago, Cataphract said:

I have 60+ Daemonettes and wondering if I should trade some off.

Keeü them, we all know there will be a time u Play 2x20 or 3x30 so u Need them.

 

Slanngors Need to be at 95 Points for 3 and Need a Hero who maken them Batteline and give them Run&Charge. Than u see a Unit off 12 many times.

[zombiepiratexxx]

Slaangors would be a ton better if they just added the Gilded weapon to all of them and not just the champion. They'd still not be a brilliant warscroll but they'd be able to put out some more damage. 

[azdimy]

Question for the group as this just hit me. Did our coalition heroes just lost the ability to take our tome artefacts by loosing our sub faction keywords in the winter faq?

(Until we get a new tome and our artefacts are no longer sub faction specific they re now limited to universal artefacts while chaos coalition heroes in other tomes are fine)

Also can we still summon from a Slannesh coalition hero or did we lose that as well? (I think this one we haven't  lost yet)

[Enoby]

11 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Question for the group as this just hit me. Did our coalition heroes just lost the ability to take our tome artefacts by loosing our sub faction keywords in the winter faq?

(Until we get a new tome and our artefacts are no longer sub faction specific they re now limited to universal artefacts while chaos coalition heroes in other tomes are fine)

Also can we still summon from a Slannesh coalition hero or did we lose that as well? (I think this one we haven't  lost yet)

I think it does stop coalition units using host artifacts as I think enhancements are part of an allegiance ability, unfortunately. 

However we're okay to summon from them still:

[Popisdead]

On 12/16/2021 at 3:55 AM, Enoby said:

Fiends of Slaanesh are, at least in Total War, a lot bigger than I thought.

Very interesting find.  thanks for sharing.

On 12/21/2021 at 5:36 AM, Feorag said:

I was hoping for slaangor update! 

oh man so cool.  the local manager bought two of the boxes.  I love painting the Slaangors and will probably field them (no longer playing tournaments) for the rule of cool (well cool looking)...  I will stick with just the 3 for now

On 12/21/2021 at 5:09 AM, Feorag said:

But I quite liked bullgors with +2 to charge! 

Also bestigors rerolling 1s with pretenders!

Do coalition units get any allegiance abilities?  Are those bullgors and Bestigors getting exploding 6s etc?  Or are they just operating on their own here?

On 12/26/2021 at 7:35 PM, Enoby said:

 have no clue how they messed this warscroll up that badly. It's one of life's great mysteries... 

causally points at BoC battletome,. <cough cough,.> oh and the last one in 2010,.. and ... maybe the 2004 one,.. O_o...  one of life's great mysteries indeed.

 

At any rate I was painting a converted Seeker chariot last night, thinkin gof the usual crew here and wanted to add happy holidays to whomever for whatever.  Hope you are all safe and well.

[CeleFAZE]

At this point I'm tempted to convert some bullgors out of slaangors. They may not get allegiance abilities, but they're cheap and punchy.

[Feorag]

22 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Do coalition units get any allegiance abilities?  Are those bullgors and Bestigors getting exploding 6s etc?  Or are they just operating on their own here?

Unfortunately they don't get exploding 6's in this book like they did in 3.0.

Also since the latest FAQ update coalition units no longer get the subfaction abilities either so no +1 to charge, rerolling ones when above 10 models etc!

[Feorag]

First game after new year will be running this trying to get a list sorted for the March WHW AOS tournament! 

Thoughts? I have a lot of Slaanesh so I can change this up pretty well if needed.

Spoiler

- Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh -

Army Type: Invaders - Subfaction: The Lurid Haze -

Grand Strategy: Hold the Line -

Triumph: Inspired

LEADERS

Sigvald (265)

Lord of Pain (155)* - General - Artefacts of Power: Oil of Exultation

Synessa (260)*

The Contorted Epitome (255)* - General - Command Traits: Feverish Anticipation - Artefacts of Power: The Rod of Misrule - Spells: Hysterical Frenzy

BATTLELINE

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)

10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (330)

OTHER

5 x Blissbarb Seekers (220)

5 x Blissbarb Seekers (220)*

CORE BATTALIONS -

*Warlord -

Hunters of the Heartlands

TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000 

 

[Carnith]

Played this list vs Sylveneth on TTS. 

 

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (265)
- Host Option: General
Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot (265)
- General
- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation
- Artefact: Oil of Exultation
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation
Lord of Pain (155)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Host Option: General
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Dark Delusions
11 x Blissbarb Archers (180)
10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (370)
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (160)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (230)
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (220)
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (220)

Total: 2065 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122
Drops: 9
 

His list (new player to sylv)

Gnarlroot

Alarielle, Warsong Gen, knight-inc

1 spite

2x5 tree

6 bownoths

aetherwings

Ended with a warlord a nd hunters of the heartland (slicks, myrm, sym).

Mission was Tectonic Interference. 

He takes turn 1 and decides to kill the blissbarb archers with everything. I think he overestimated them. He moves onto each of the objectives with his revenants and takes monster takeover on the far right objective with some tree's blocking for him. 

Score is 0-6 as he takes all 3 objectives and gets his tactic.

My turn

I have blissseekers on the flanks and they run up. Sigvald deepstrikes in back to target warsong and bownoths. 

Everything else moves up to 3" from charge range. 

Every charge is made and Alarielle ends up caught in combat, but can't fight, so gets stuck in pile in.  Sigvlad did 3 damage to bows. 

Score is 6-6

Turn 2, I take the double. I have everything that can attack alarielle go for it. She has 9/10 seekers shoot into her. Slicks charge her. Symbaresh were within 3" and pile in to her. Lord of Pain charges. 

SIGVALD STRIKES! and does no damage. 

Slicks go first and get reroll hits from lord of pain. They manage to do like 7 damage to Alarielle. 

She has 2 wounds left at this point and swings at the lord of pain, who gives her a wound back from his ward. 

Symbaresh finish her off with 6 damage still going through. 

Opponent conceded here. 

 

Moral of the story? Why doesn't Alarielle have a ward save?

 

[Jaskier]

15 hours ago, Carnith said:

Moral of the story? Why doesn't Alarielle have a ward save?

Speaking as a Sylvaneth player, she'd probably be busted at her current points if she had a 5+ or better ward on top of her other rules. She's not designed to work like an Archaon that can just sit in the middle and eat all the punishment; she's intended to zoom around from combat to combat and make the most of her incredible mobility and healing, all the while sniping support heroes with her javelin. Save stacking her to a boosted 2+ is enough in most cases I find, provided you keep her away from the big sources of mortals (obviously it won't save her against some matchups, i.e. 30+ Sentinels.) Keep in mind she's effectively a 540 point model thanks to her in-built ~200 point summon. A model that heals an average 7 wounds in her hero phase before accounting for the D6 heal spell it automatically knows and the potential D3 heal from Heroic Recovery each turn would probably be extremely hard to balance if you then also slapped a decent ward save on it (she can of course get a 6++ in Gnarlroot.) 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Jaskier

[Nasnad]

Thinking of starting some chaos in the new year! .. Stuck between Hedonites and tzeentch. (ANd hoping for a slaves to darkness rework).

But what are some essential hedonites units? .. ANd what would be a good start for a 1000 point list?

thanks.

[Enoby]

2 hours ago, Nasnad said:

Thinking of starting some chaos in the new year! .. Stuck between Hedonites and tzeentch. (ANd hoping for a slaves to darkness rework).

But what are some essential hedonites units? .. ANd what would be a good start for a 1000 point list?

thanks.

I'd really recommend the battlebox for a 1000 points list (minus the Slaangors)

In general, all of our units are pretty decent (besides Slaangors) so we have the advantage of not really having one list that works. Something simple and cheap for 1000 points would be:

 - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
     - Army Type: Invaders 
LEADERS

Lord of Pain (155) - Glory Hog, Rod of Misrule OR Shardspeaker (150) - Glory Hog, Rod of Misrule

BATTLELINE

11 x Blissbarb Archers (170)

5 x Hellstriders with Hellscourges (135)

OTHER

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145) (battleline with Lord of Pain General)

5 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (165) (battleline with Lord of Pain General)

5 x Slickblade Seekers (230)

TOTAL POINTS: 1000/1000

The Shardspeaker variant would be cheaper as that comes in the box, but would leave you will less battleline (though she's probably a better support). With that variant, you'd only need to buy some Hellstriders (or find them on Ebay).

You would likely need some models for summoning, but to save yourself money, at 1k points there's no need to dive into a KoS - I'd recommend the Start Collecting box (building the exalted chariot with herald). This should give a decent small summoning pool and also allows you to mix and match daemons into your army.

Hope this helps!

[Koala]

As has been said hedonites are quite well designed as in there are no really badly designed units (except slaangors, but even they are OK if a bit underwhelming). 

And there is not as much synergy stacking happening, so with the exception of the Keeper of Secrets ( which is NOT the beatstick you would expect but a support hero, so only useful if you first have something big you want to have fight twice) you can just choose to your liking.

But this also means no "must have" choices.

Go for what you like aesthetically and/or the playstyle you prefer. 

Most daemon units are currently slightly out of favour, but then a start collecting daemons of Slaanesh is cheap and always useful ( If Just to have something to summon).

I would guess it has more to do with the mortals being exciting new models than anything else.

[Nasnad]

Sounds great. So an army with maybe a lord of pain, and some painbringers as battleline could be an okay start? ..
And what are some of the prefered units to summon?

[pnkdth]

On 12/27/2021 at 8:37 PM, AngryPanda said:

The upside, however, is that the battlebox that was released comes with only one squad, which is perfect if you just want to own the models. Also, they’re pretty good in warcry, which is a great game to play if you only want to have quick skirmishes with your Slaanesh models; that’s where I plan to use my Slaangors. 

Alternatively, they would work very well as a daemonic hero/unit kitbash or even a really twisted and far gone mortal hero/unit.

[Enoby]

37 minutes ago, Nasnad said:

Sounds great. So an army with maybe a lord of pain, and some painbringers as battleline could be an okay start? ..
And what are some of the prefered units to summon?

Yeah, that'd work well If you wanted more of a focus on Painbringers (over Twinsouls), I'd suggest this list:

 - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh

  - Army Type: Invaders

LEADERS

Lord of Pain (155)

  - General

  - Command Traits: Glory Hog

  - Artefacts of Power: The Rod of Misrule

Shardspeaker of Slaanesh (150)

BATTLELINE

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)

11 x Blissbarb Archers (170)

5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)

OTHER

5 x Slickblade Seekers (230)

TOTAL POINTS: 995/1000

This will be quite a nice well-rounded list

Summon-wise, your best units in 2000pts are usually (like 80% of the time) a Keeper of Secrets or 30 daemonettes. However, at 1000 points you may struggle to get these until turn 3, which may be a little too late. 10-20 daemonettes are still a good choice, but at that level I'd actually argue fiends are better against monsters, and the exalted seeker chariot is a good summon too (if you need some mortal wounds or a healing spell). I'd not recommend a KoS until you're sure you enjoy the army - they are a great summon and very consistently easy to summon, but they're a pricey model. 

You can build a lot on the above army, including Sigvald and Glutos as two very solid units if you like them.

[Enoby]

I should be at a small tournament soon - no clue how nasty the lists will be, so I'm going to play something silly.

I don't expect to win, in fact I may well go 0-5, but I want to take the opportunity to see what this ends up doing:

  - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh

     - Army Type: Pretenders
LEADERS

Glutos Orscollion (475)

Keeper of Secrets (420)
     - General
     - Command Traits: Hunter of Godbeasts, Master of Magic
     - Artefacts of Power: Sceptre of Domination
     - Spells: Slothful Stupor

BATTLELINE

5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (135)
11 x Blissbarb Archers (170)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (135)*

OTHER

10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (330)*
5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS

1 x Umbral Spellportal (70)
1 x Wheels of Excruciation (100)
CORE BATTALIONS
 -  *Hunters of the Heartlands

TOTAL POINTS: 1980/2000
 

So basically I just hope that slothful stupor goes off on their big model! I've not used the wheels so I wanted to give them a spin. 

It's not a good list, but it's something different!