AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[MothmanDraws]

I think for slaangor, give them a decent statline that can take hits but initially poor output, make them like dexcessa

1-2 attacks each with low damage as they enter the battle in a stupor, then once they either take damage or deal damage they ramp up fast. This will make them an interesting target for opponent of not actually wanting to hit them or if they want to they have to dedicate to wiping them out.

 

Mv 8" 3 wounds 5+ 6+

claws 2 attacks 4+/3+/-1/1  

gilded weapon 2 attacks 4+/3+/-2/2

-The unit has a 6+ FNP

slaughter at any cost

-After this model has fought for the first time or has received wounds, at the start of each battle round, add 1 to the Attacks characteristics of this model’s weapons for the rest of the battle. This effect is cumulative. In addition the unit gains +2 bravery. 

Obsessive violence

-This unit may not make the retreat charge reaction, At the end of the combat phase roll a dice for each model in the unit, for each 4+ that enemy unit suffers a mortal wound, if the unit contains 6 models that mortal wound is caused on a 3+. In addition this unit may run and charge.

Let them be battleline with glutos 

 

edit

Overall I would actually like our gimick to be detatched from summoning, I really like the dread pageants gimick in direchasm where the units super charge after taking damage or dealing it.

Edited July 28, 2021 by MothmanDraws

[Panacea]

13 hours ago, Enoby said:

Personally I'd like a redesign where they can switch their profile to slovenly beasts who the other Hedonites dote on (for buffs), and then to ferocious shock troops (-1 save, +1 damage, +1 attack, MWs on a charge like current ability). Would give them a role  

I think that many of the warscrolls missed an opportunity to include the lore in their design.

For example, I like the idea of the slaangoes being worshipped by the hedonites, perhaps having other mortal hedonites grant a look out sir kind pf rule, a ward save, or the ability to pass on wounds from the slaangors to them. Then, maybe to illustrate their lust for blood and increasing frenzy,  give them an extra pile in toward the nearest enemy if a model does within a certain distance, or grant them increasing buffs as they kill models, maybe culminating in them rampaging and becoming truly terrifying in combat, always moving towards the nearest target, be it friend or foe.

[LeonBox]

I know there's always a disconnect between the fluff and the crunch, but honestly: 

Quote

When the madness of battle descends upon Slaangor Fiendbloods, the carnage left in their wake is truly sickening (~2/3 unsaved wounds against a 4+). These gangly beasts are frighteningly strong (wounding on 3s) and swift (OK I'll give you this one), and they fight with a frenzied disregard for their own survival (can confirm, 5+ is rubbish). 

Though they look almost delicate (because they are), these savage beasts hit with hurricane force (x to doubt). Possessed of both speed and unnatural strength (see above), even a small unit can effectively harass foes (hmmmmm can it though), while a concerted attack can break even the largest formations (yeah yeah course it can).

 

[CeleFAZE]

1 hour ago, MothmanDraws said:

I think for slaangor, give them a decent statline that can take hits but initially poor output, make them like dexcessa

1-2 attacks each with low damage as they enter the battle in a stupor, then once they either take damage or deal damage they ramp up fast. This will make them an interesting target for opponent of not actually wanting to hit them or if they want to they have to dedicate to wiping them out.

 

Mv 8" 3 wounds 5+ 6+

claws 2 attacks 4+/3+/-1/1  

gilded weapon 2 attacks 4+/3+/-2/2

-The unit has a 6+ FNP

slaughter at any cost

-After this model has fought for the first time or has received wounds, at the start of each battle round, add 1 to the Attacks characteristics of this model’s weapons for the rest of the battle. This effect is cumulative. In addition the unit gains +2 bravery. 

Obsessive violence

-This unit may not make the retreat charge reaction, At the end of the combat phase roll a dice for each model in the unit, for each 4+ that enemy unit suffers a mortal wound, if the unit contains 6 models that mortal wound is caused on a 3+. In addition this unit may run and charge.

Let them be battleline with glutos 

 

edit

Overall I would actually like our gimick to be detatched from summoning, I really like the dread pageants gimick in direchasm where the units super charge after taking damage or dealing it.

I would go even a step further. This is a unit I would happily field:

8 mv, 5+ sv, 4 bravery, 4 wounds

Claws: 2", 4 Attacks, 4+/3+, -1, 2 damage

Gilded weapon: 2", 2 attacks, 3+/3+, -2, 2 damage

Abilities:

Slothful Advance: This unit has a 4+ ward save until it is selected to fight for the first time in the battle.

Image of Divinity: Mortal hedonite units wholly within 12" of any units with this ability gain +1 bravery. 

Obsessive Violence: This unit may run and charge. In addition, at the end of a charge phase in which this unit successfully charged pick one enemy unit within 1" and roll a number of dice equal to the unmodified charge roll for this unit. For each 5+ that enemy unit takes a mortal wound.

Slaughter at Any Cost: when this unit fails a battleshock test no models are removed as fleeing. Instead for every model that would normally flee add +1 attack to all of this unit's melee weapons in the next combat phase.

[LeonBox]

58 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

I would go even a step further. This is a unit I would happily field:

8 mv, 5+ sv, 4 bravery, 4 wounds

Claws: 2", 4 Attacks, 4+/3+, -1, 2 damage

Gilded weapon: 2", 2 attacks, 3+/3+, -2, 2 damage

Abilities:

Slothful Advance: This unit has a 4+ ward save until it is selected to fight for the first time in the battle.

Image of Divinity: Mortal hedonite units wholly within 12" of any units with this ability gain +1 bravery. 

Obsessive Violence: This unit may run and charge. In addition, at the end of a charge phase in which this unit successfully charged pick one enemy unit within 1" and roll a number of dice equal to the unmodified charge roll for this unit. For each 5+ that enemy unit takes a mortal wound.

Slaughter at Any Cost: when this unit fails a battleshock test no models are removed as fleeing. Instead for every model that would normally flee add +1 attack to all of this unit's melee weapons in the next combat phase.

That's a sexy warscroll, but I think giving them low bravery and then not only immunity to battleshock, but bonuses precisely because of the low bravery would be a bit OP. The attacks are way more in line that the sort of damage they should be doing. Mortal wounds ability is nice but not too OP (average 2 MW on the charge). 

[CeleFAZE]

21 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

That's a sexy warscroll, but I think giving them low bravery and then not only immunity to battleshock, but bonuses precisely because of the low bravery would be a bit OP. The attacks are way more in line that the sort of damage they should be doing. Mortal wounds ability is nice but not too OP (average 2 MW on the charge). 

Yeah, the bravery is something that could be tweaked. Their ability gives them a +1 natively, so they're effectively 5 bravery, but making them 5 bravery base would bring them to 6 normally, which is more in line with standard mortal hedonites. Mostly I made this scroll on account of my extreme disdain for the lumineth cathalar, and how this would be a unit that would specifically be the worst possible target for their abilities, while being quite functional in a general sense. The downside to low bravery however is that they are far more susceptible to bravery-based attacks, which I feel would be a fitting weakness for what would otherwise be a fairly powerful, though not overpowered scroll.

[pnkdth]

I'd think be cool to see them as a chosen-type unit, i.e. buffing and inspiring mortals to new heights of excessive slaughter. I really like the idea @CeleFAZE put forth called Image of Divinity.

Some ideas;

Power from Pain: Pick a friendly hedonite unit within 12" in the combat phase. After all wounds have been allocated roll a dice for each wound, on a 5+ that unit takes a mortal wound. After the wounds have been resolved remove slain models as normal.

Slaughter at any cost: As is. In addition, add one damage to each melee weapon on the charge. Once per battle round, if they successfully wipe out an enemy unit, they can immediately pile in 6" and fight. 

Pain is a gift: 5+ ward. 

No idea on cost.

Edited July 28, 2021 by pnkdth

[LeonBox]

1 hour ago, CeleFAZE said:

Mostly I made this scroll on account of my extreme disdain for the lumineth cathalar, and how this would be a unit that would specifically be the worst possible target for their abilities, while being quite functional in a general sense.

I hear ya. Bravery is really the one thing you can go after with LRL (the new range eliminated their other weakness, movement, pretty much completely) and the Cathallar just totally negates it. 

[CeleFAZE]

Personally I'd love to see some more background-relevant armywide abilities, as the summoning is so... tragically dull for Slaanesh.

Mortals should have something like combat drugs where you can take a mortal wound to the squad and gain a +1 to your choice of hit, wound, save, or bravery. Generates depravity and allows our mortals to be far more flexible.

Myrmadesh should have something that underscores their martial prowess far more than just +1 to save in close combat. Something like 1's to hit from opponents deal mortal wounds to the attackers as they parry the swings. Also let the +1 save apply to ranged attacks, it's not going to break the game.

All seeker-based units should have a 6" pile-in.

I'd like to see all of this added, summoning weakened, and a matching point rebalancing. I think that would really make this the army that most of us wanted to play from the start. When the depravity system first came around in the GHB update, it was a decent boost, but far from game-breaking. Once it became our central army identity things went downhill real fast.

Edited July 28, 2021 by CeleFAZE

[Nagashfan]

11 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

 

All seeker-based units should have a 6" pile-in.

Hell yeah I’d love that for godseekers

[KrispyXIV]

15 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

Personally I'd love to see some more background-relevant armywide abilities, as the summoning is so... tragically dull for Slaanesh.

...

I'd like to see all of this added, summoning weakened, and a matching point rebalancing. I think that would really make this the army that most of use wanted to play from the start. When the depravity system first came around in the GHB update, it was a decent boost, but far from game-breaking. Once it became our central army identity things went downhill real fast.

I sure hope not, the summoning mechanics are what make me love this army.  I've always wanted to play a balanced, non-oppressive demon summoning army and I finally have one

It's a very unique playstyle, and I mostly hope they just tweak the points costs for a few units more towards where I might actually consider paying points for them. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by KrispyXIV

[CeleFAZE]

1 minute ago, KrispyXIV said:

I sure hope not, the summoning mechanics are what make me love this army.  I've always wanted to play a balanced, non-oppressive demon summoning army and I finally have one

It's a very unique playstyle, and I mostly hope they just tweak the points costs for a few units more towards where I might actually consider paying points for them. 

That's entirely fair, and a perspective I should've considered.

What I find interesting is that there may be some circular logic to how GW determines summoning points, which may account for some of our increase: the more they raise points to account for summoning, the more "value" summoning has, and thusly the more points would need to go up to account for it. I'm curious as to whether we got hit with a doubly applied correction as a result of this.

[KrispyXIV]

32 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

That's entirely fair, and a perspective I should've considered.

What I find interesting is that there may be some circular logic to how GW determines summoning points, which may account for some of our increase: the more they raise points to account for summoning, the more "value" summoning has, and thusly the more points would need to go up to account for it. I'm curious as to whether we got hit with a doubly applied correction as a result of this.

My big concern is that I think they applied a relatively flat modifier/tax for summons (30% - I'd bet ten dollars it's currently near 30%) across the board, which produces weird results when applied at the extremes.  A KOS is probably around ok at 320 points, but paying a "fee" for a single unit of around 120 points is prohibitive.  

Similarly for a max reinforced blob of say, Daemonettes.  They're expensive, but not completely awful at 140 (partially because they are one of your mandatory battle lines) but 420 and two reinforcement points AND only counting as one battleline makes paying points for a max blob of then kindof a non-starter. 

Additionally, some units "bear" the tax better than others - blissbarbs and enrapturesses, for example, help contribute well to generating DP which makes them feel extra potent for their cost. 

My Point - I think units need to be evaluated independently to be sure their final cost accounts for the "soft" factors of running them in various conditions.  Keepers probably need a discount, for example.  Maybe Painbringers, Daemonettes as well (though I'd like to actually hear more experiences with these units as the dust settles for 3e - Daemonettes haven't exactly weighed me down, and I think Painbringers have been extremely maligned because of early opinions on save rerolls versus stackable save bonuses).

[dicebod]

Today's hobby tip: Namarti Reavers are a great base for twinsoul conversions.

[Lucentia]

Looks cool.  I was thinking about either Namarti or BB Wood Elves as a conversion base, but I don't think they look armoured enough for a 4+ save for my taste.  Maybe I'll grab some of the BB dark elves and see how those look.

[TimeToWaste85]

I was considering Namarti originally for Blissbarb conversions, but it was the same $ price, and I’d be short the haemonculous. But it looks good for a Twinsouls! I’m still confident the Dominion Stormcast Vindicators are going to be good fodder for Myrmadesh conversions. I just need to get my hands on one to test out my theory. 
 

if I could get down to my local GW to get a sample model, I could test it out. 

[Enoby]

Chaos Warriors make very good Painbringers too - very easy conversion and very cheap (if you use the old kit) Just need the swords, shield, and helmets and you get some bulky Painbringers.

[TimeToWaste85]

14 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Chaos Warriors make very good Painbringers too - very easy conversion and very cheap (if you use the old kit) Just need the swords, shield, and helmets and you get some bulky Painbringers.

Too static for my taste, and the new stormcast have fitting armor for haughty Warriors of slaanesh. I got rid of all of my old static Chaos warriors, and they won’t make a return. Lol

[Enoby]

And done Will have some lore for them later 

[Benkei]

14 hours ago, Lucentia said:

Looks cool.  I was thinking about either Namarti or BB Wood Elves as a conversion base, but I don't think they look armoured enough for a 4+ save for my taste.  Maybe I'll grab some of the BB dark elves and see how those look.

Im gonna use Sisters of Silence 

[Nagashfan]

3 hours ago, Benkei said:

Im gonna use Sisters of Silence 

That’s a good choice

[TimeToWaste85]

So, someone earlier said the Blissbarbs are like painting a unit of characters based on their detail. You know? …good. Slaanesh, of all armies, should have the foot soldiers feel superior and on par with characters. Pride is still one of the sins of excess. It’s a sneaky way to fit in one more aspect of excess; make the minis excessively ornate, even the basic ones. Doesn’t make it easier to paint. But makes it justified. Hello contrast!

[Selpharia]

I mean you’re not wrong. It’s why I’m kind of excited for the horror of Exalted Seekers

[TimeToWaste85]

I have ten exalted, ten Twinsouls and 33 Blissbarbs now. Plus the older hedonites and the characters. It feels like an army of characters. It’s definitely the show off army. That said, I contrast. A lot. 
 

and as soon as I confirm that Vindicator torsos work w/Myrmadesh arms, I’m buying ten for 2 units of Myrmadesh. 

[LeonBox]

A guy in my neck of the woods (China) is selling this entire Slaanesh army for around 800 pounds: 

 

Beautiful work, especially on the bases, but does not match my colour scheme at all. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by LeonBox