AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Nagashfan]

2 hours ago, Enoby said:

To be honest, if I were to take a guess, they want to make a true separation between matched and narrative/open play. 

I'm not sure about others, but in the past, narrative games were kind of just matched play with a story attached and maybe a running set of upgrades. You might have a narrative "2k list of squigs" vs a narrative of "2k ogors" who want to eat the squigs. It works like a matched play game but you don't pick optimal models and you may have a different battleplan.

Now I think they may want matched play to be actually balanced play. Not just points and some restrictions, but "cut off the fun fluff and get down to the meat of the game". No narrative battalions, no mixing S2D with gods, a strict way to get enhancements, and very straight forward battleplans. 

Narrative on the other hand seems to be more like AoS 2 with extras, and what looks like a very cool crusade system.

If this is the case, then it may be nice for them to give narrative its own identity as an actual game mode, rather than code for "mess about with a few daft lists", and for matched play to move away from "normal" play. But I think the latter will be a harder change

Maybe they will do a one in 4 system with slaves and beasts similar to cities of sigmar? I’d be ok with that

[CarkFish]

Which bit in the rules suggests no S2D units? 😕🥺

[dicebod]

@Enoby - thanks for the fantastic rundown on HoS going into 3.0, definitely has gotten the list-building juices flowing.  Here's something I put together that seems to really play to our strengths:

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Invaders Host

Leaders
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- General
- Sinustrous Hand
- Command Trait: Glory Hog
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
- Host Option: General
- Spell: Paths of the Dark Prince
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (260)
- Host Option: General
The Contorted Epitome (210)
- Artefact: The Rod of Misrule
- Host Option: General
- Lore of Slaanesh: Hysterical Frenzy

Battleline
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (140)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (140)
10 x Daemonettes (110)

Units
10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (340)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Wheels of Excruciation (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
 

It seems like this puts up a decent amount of wounds, has pretty OK spell output and has some major melee threats in the slickblades/twinsouls.

[Jaskier]

5 hours ago, dicebod said:

@Enoby - thanks for the fantastic rundown on HoS going into 3.0, definitely has gotten the list-building juices flowing.  Here's something I put together that seems to really play to our strengths:

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Invaders Host

Leaders
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- General
- Sinustrous Hand
- Command Trait: Glory Hog
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
- Host Option: General
- Spell: Paths of the Dark Prince
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (260)
- Host Option: General
The Contorted Epitome (210)
- Artefact: The Rod of Misrule
- Host Option: General
- Lore of Slaanesh: Hysterical Frenzy

Battleline
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (140)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (140)
10 x Daemonettes (110)

Units
10 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (340)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Wheels of Excruciation (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
 

It seems like this puts up a decent amount of wounds, has pretty OK spell output and has some major melee threats in the slickblades/twinsouls.

Just a quick note, it's generally a bad idea to make a Keeper one of your three generals for Invaders as it means you won't be able to use its command ability on/when it's within 12" of Sigvald and the Epitome, and Sigvald in particular is a great target for Excess of Violence. You're probably better off making the Epitome your main general and not making the Keeper a general - you can have up to three generals, so you aren't forced to have all three. 

[Enoby]

If this is true (and it's a big if), and it's similar for everyone, and we don't see any points increases ourselves, we'll be on the way to reasonably costed

Looks like big jumps for their monster heroes as well as their troops. 

[Feorag]

12 minutes ago, Enoby said:

If this is true (and it's a big if), and it's similar for everyone, and we don't see any points increases ourselves, we'll be on the way to reasonably costed

Looks like big jumps for their monster heroes as well as their troops. 

Ardboys in 5s really does sting I thought they'd be in 10s! 

But if our points don't change as the rumours suggest I'm a lot more comfortable with that! 

[ibel]

Hej Guys,

what do u think About this List (Maybe vor Tournemants and so)

Ist a 4 Drop List.

Allegiance: Slaanesh  4er Drop
- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)

Leaders
Keeper of Secrets (340) 1 Drop Battalion
- Sinistrous Hand
- Artefact: Oil of Exultation
- Spell: Progeny of Damnation
Dexcessa (280)         Warlord Battalion
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (260) Warlord Battalion
- Host Option: General
The Contorted Epitome (210) Warlord Battalion
- General
- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation
- Artefact: The Rod of Misrule (Warlord)
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation
The Masque (130) ) 1 Drop Battalion
- Host Option: General

Battleline
33 x Blissbarb Archers (480) ) 1 Drop Battalion
10 x Chaos Warriors (180) ) 1 Drop Battalion
- Hand Weapon & Shield
10 x Daemonettes (110) ) 1 Drop Battalion

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105

U think this could Work?

What goes in Lurid Haze Ambushed (Sigvald/Archer/Keeper ?!)

Thanks for watching

[Feorag]

11 minutes ago, ibel said:

Hej Guys,

what do u think About this List (Maybe vor Tournemants and so)

Ist a 4 Drop List.

Allegiance: Slaanesh  4er Drop
- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)

Leaders
Keeper of Secrets (340) 1 Drop Battalion
- Sinistrous Hand
- Artefact: Oil of Exultation
- Spell: Progeny of Damnation
Dexcessa (280)         Warlord Battalion
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (260) Warlord Battalion
- Host Option: General
The Contorted Epitome (210) Warlord Battalion
- General
- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation
- Artefact: The Rod of Misrule (Warlord)
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation
The Masque (130) ) 1 Drop Battalion
- Host Option: General

Battleline
33 x Blissbarb Archers (480) ) 1 Drop Battalion
10 x Chaos Warriors (180) ) 1 Drop Battalion
- Hand Weapon & Shield
10 x Daemonettes (110) ) 1 Drop Battalion

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
 

 

U think this could Work?

What goes in Lurid Haze Ambushed (Sigvald/Archer/Keeper ?!)

Thanks for watching 

I'd probably drop the warriors as they will most likely go up in points and tick you over 2k.

I'd then split up the blissbarb archers. 

Maybe go 2x11 blissbarb 2x10 daemonettes and a unit of slickblades(these do some serious work!) as your core army and those 5 fit in the one drop! 

 

[ibel]

Ah jes i see ist a 5 Drop.

Do u really think CW go up and Points AND in Minimum Sizze ?!

but okay, ya i could drop the CW for 5 Hellstrider with Clwas and go just 22 Archer and 5 Sickblades, good Point.

What do u think, Ambusehd the Archer or stay an the Field for "Unleashed Hell" ?!

[Enoby]

6 minutes ago, ibel said:

Ah jes i see ist a 5 Drop.

Do u really think CW go up and Points AND in Minimum Sizze ?!

but okay, ya i could drop the CW for 5 Hellstrider with Clwas and go just 22 Archer and 5 Sickblades, good Point.

What do u think, Ambusehd the Archer or stay an the Field for "Unleashed Hell" ?!

I agree with @Feorag - as well, we don't know if warriors will actually be usable by us in the next GHB. You can swap them out for more archers, or some daemonettes and wheels of excruciation (my preference).

I would keep the archers down field - their shooting will reach where it needs to, and putting them too far up would leave them open to being easily cleared. They do quite a bit less damage on Unleash Hell, so I wouldn't count on it for defence 

[ibel]

So u Maybe this ?

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)

Leaders
Keeper of Secrets (340) 1 Drop Battalion
- Sinistrous Hand
- Artefact: Oil of Exultation
- Spell: Progeny of Damnation
Dexcessa (280) WarlordBat
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (260) 1 Drop Battalion
- Host Option: General
The Masque (130) WarlordBat
- Host Option: General
The Contorted Epitome (210) WarlordBat
- General
- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation
- Artefact: The Rod of Misrule
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation

Battleline
22 x Blissbarb Archers (320) 1 Drop Battalion
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (140) 1 Drop Battalion
10 x Daemonettes (110) 1 Drop Battalion

Units
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200) Battalion WarlordBat

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 104

Ambushed 1.Archer 2.Sigvald 3.... ??? Keeper ?! Sickblades??

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, ibel said:

Ambushed 1.Archer 2.Sigvald 3.... ??? Keeper ?! Sickblades??

I'd definitely recommend Keeper and Sigvald over archers - my suggested order would be:

1) Sigvald

2) KoS 

3) Slickblades OR Hellstriders (if they have a shooting unit, use Hellstriders to bait unleash hell)

I wouldn't recommend teleporting archers

[ibel]

5 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I'd definitely recommend Keeper and Sigvald over archers - my suggested order would be:

1) Sigvald

2) KoS 

3) Slickblades OR Hellstriders (if they have a shooting unit, use Hellstriders to bait unleash hell)

I wouldn't recommend teleporting archers

Mhmm, but i Hope Sigvald would reach some Unit if my Oppinuin go first (6+3+2W6 Charge, Something between 11 and 18(21) going)

Jes the Keeper is very "soft" but key…. but he is fast so i would  but him/her in the Backfield and go straight Forward in my 1.turn

Sickblades okay jes....

The Point is Archer on the Field against a Army with shoots, just a Little and so they are just with 3 Lost under 20 because of exploding 6ses 🤔

[Enoby]

31 minutes ago, ibel said:

Mhmm, but i Hope Sigvald would reach some Unit if my Oppinuin go first (6+3+2W6 Charge, Something between 11 and 18(21) going)

Jes the Keeper is very "soft" but key…. but he is fast so i would  but him/her in the Backfield and go straight Forward in my 1.turn

Sickblades okay jes....

The Point is Archer on the Field against a Army with shoots, just a Little and so they are just with 3 Lost under 20 because of exploding 6ses 🤔

If you have the ability to teleport, I'd stick Sigvald in the teleport as it gives him the option to act first turn and will nearly always get the charge when the reroll is available. It gives him use as a character assassin, and with the KoS behind him (even if the KoS doesn't get in with the charge), you can make him attack twice without the opponent being able to respond. 

He becomes a really good assassin, and a great way to make his points back immediately. While you can charge him in from the front, he'll likely hit a low value screen. He's best at taking down high priority targets ASAP, especially those with a ward save

The Keeper is more of a support piece; if you weren't in Lurid Haze, I'd recommend forgetting the one drop and giving them the enhancement for the artifact for the 5+ ward save. It does good damage, but it's initial purpose is to buff Sigvald on his first charge. Depending on your opponent, this charge can win the game.

Edit: also, you often won't need to teleport on the new board sizes due to the space between being so small. Things like Slickblades and a KoS can first turn charge easier by just moving (the teleport is to get them around the back/in range of Sigvald)

Edited June 17, 2021 by Enoby

[Feorag]

Allegiance: Slaanesh

- Host: Pretenders Host

Mortal Realm: Ghur

Dex (280)

Keeper of Secrets (340)

- General

- Sinistrous Hand

- Command Trait: Monarch of Lies

- Host Option: Craving Stare

- Spell: Progeny of Damnation

5+ ward save item

Shardspeaker of Slaanesh (150)

- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Dark Delusions

The Contorted Epitome (210)

- Artefact: Mask of Spiteful Beauty

- Lore of Slaanesh: Phantasmagoria

Infernal Enrapturess, Herald of Slaanesh (150)

11 x Blissbarb Archers (160)

10 x Daemonettes (110)

10 x Daemonettes (110)

6 x Fiends (360)

Mesmerising Mirror (60)

Dreadful Visage (40)

 

Total: 1970 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 98

One drop bat + 3 hero enhancement batallion

The aim of the list is to heavily mess with bravery and try and control as much of the board as possible. Having a free +1 dispell from the enrapturess may be pretty helpful for clearing through endless spells which will no doubt be prominent. The forced reroll + the neg from fiends may help out! 

It may not work but I'm trying to play with more than just invaders!

 

 

[ibel]

22 minutes ago, Feorag said:

It may not work but I'm trying to play with more than just invaders!

Hey okay. But correct me if i am wrong u want a very big blob (Maybe in the Middel) to Support your Heros and Troops each other (CE with KOS or SoS and Fiends)

Is this not a littel bit against the Fieldcontroll Idea ?!

[zombiepiratexxx]

Wondering if they want to (at least in matched play) keep armies to one battletome to make the game easier to balance. Outside of allies if you have to consider how each book interacts with units that it can take in the main part of the army that must make planning for balance a pain and you have way more stuff to test (and we're already not sure just how good their playtesting is, especially in what makes it into final production). While it may be less fluffy in terms of who would fight together I can certainly understand their reasons for wanting to keep stuff separate. 

[LeonBox]

This passed me by until recently (thinking about running a Godseeker host just for a change) but has anyone realised how pointless this artefact now is? 

There's now no point in Locus'ing a hero at all given its range is only 1", but clearly they didn't look at this artefact at all when rewriting the battletome.  

[Enoby]

1 minute ago, LeonBox said:

This passed me by until recently (thinking about running a Godseeker host just for a change) but has anyone realised how pointless this artefact now is? 

There's now no point in Locus'ing a hero at all given its range is only 1", but clearly they didn't look at this artefact at all when rewriting the battletome.  

Yeah, this artifact is a flop - especially considering locus of diversion is only good against hordes. 

At least we don't have to take it, but perhaps the rules writers should have taken a look at that rather than nerfing the Pretenders artifacts 

[LeonBox]

6 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Yeah, this artifact is a flop - especially considering locus of diversion is only good against hordes. 

At least we don't have to take it, but perhaps the rules writers should have taken a look at that rather than nerfing the Pretenders artifacts 

Exactly. They found the time to decide that Sliverslash was too powerful and that we shouldn't have a run and charge trait anymore, but apparently they couldn't fix Breathtaker? #priorities 

Edited June 17, 2021 by LeonBox
Mistook a trait for an artefact

[Enoby]

5 minutes ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

Wondering if they want to (at least in matched play) keep armies to one battletome to make the game easier to balance. Outside of allies if you have to consider how each book interacts with units that it can take in the main part of the army that must make planning for balance a pain and you have way more stuff to test (and we're already not sure just how good their playtesting is, especially in what makes it into final production). While it may be less fluffy in terms of who would fight together I can certainly understand their reasons for wanting to keep stuff separate. 

I think you're onto something there. 

That said, in an ideal world, they should just point things differently for every allegiance. Tzeentch Archaon should not cost the same as Nurgle or Slaanesh Archaon. It also gives them more freedom to target broken combos without kneecapping the sensible ways the unit can be used in other factions. 

I know it would be a lot of effort for GW, but it would be worth it if they want to balance the game and keep armies open.

[Enoby]

21 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

Exactly. They found the time to decide that Sliverslash was too powerful and that we shouldn't have a run and charge trait anymore, but apparently they couldn't fix Breathtaker? #priorities 

Yeah, while I like most of the book (though think there's a lot of scope for improvement), I do not understand the multiple nerfs to Pretenders.

Pretenders have always been the worst host, except when Slaanesh first got a GHB allegiance (then Invaders was the worst); that was partially due to the (previous) best battalion not functioning well with them, but also because it didn't buff the general enough to make up for the worse support in the rest of the army. It never had the CP generation of Invaders or the charge buff and easy depravity or Godseekers, and traded it for a rerolling 1s to hordes (which is okay but requires a specific type of unit) and some okay command traits on the general. 

One of the playtesters thought that Sliverslash on a KoS was the meta way in 2019, which isn't true at all. I wonder if the designers were too scared of a potential monster mash in AoS 3...

Regardless, they did Pretenders dirty and they're my favourite host narratively  Ah well, at least Invaders is very vague in its narrative so you aren't narratively restricted using them

[Elazar The Glorified]

Have we seen any confirmation yet that the Core Battalions are free in Matched Play?

 

[ibel]

34 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

There's now no point in Locus'ing a hero at all given its range is only 1", but clearly they didn't look at this artefact at all when rewriting the battletome.  

It is just okay to use if a Keeper stand 2,5" away from a Hero with max 2" Range. than u can hit them with Claws and the enemy hero not.

But it is so Situation..... can forgett it.

[Elazar The Glorified]

I wonder if there is a bit more scope in Pretenders now actually...

The reroll 1s to hit is something that has some more use now that the command ability is adding 1 rather than doing the same. I also think Battle-Lust and Skilled Leader on a Pretenders General with the Amulet of Destiny whilst not a necessarily world-beating combo does a few useful things we can't do out of the book with Pretenders. Gets a few extra CP over the course of a battle and a CP or two saved for getting the charge-reroll and the Amulet of Destiny feels like the new go-to for Keepers!