AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[TimeToWaste85]

I’m cool with our point costs if everyone  

5 minutes ago, Poryague said:

Well that's a big change to arcane bolt. Wonder why the need for the change and if it's because of battle plan changing 

This tells me you can move before magic. Woohoo!!!

[pnkdth]

8 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

I’m cool with our point costs if everyone  

This tells me you can move before magic. Woohoo!!!

It could also just be it is a spell you can choose to activate in the hero phase or subsequent phases. Very interesting choice for wizards who also want to be in combat. It would be very bad for buffs and such spells if they take effect AFTER you need them (if the hero phase comes later).

[Selpharia]

I’m a little saddened by how a Keeper + Twins can’t fit in any battalions we’ve seen so far, but honestly it probably doesn’t matter that much if one or two units don’t fit. It’s not like Hedonites can be easily made low-drop now 

[Enoby]

8 minutes ago, Selpharia said:

I’m a little saddened by how a Keeper + Twins can’t fit in any battalions we’ve seen so far, but honestly it probably doesn’t matter that much if one or two units don’t fit. It’s not like Hedonites can be easily made low-drop now 

They can fit in the warlord battalion together

Two Leaders (Keeper and Dex) and one sub commander (Syn, as they have 9 wounds)

Edited June 12, 2021 by Enoby

[Apinecone]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Bad news is chaos warriors are less good for us (min units of 10) and Archaon has had a gargantuan points hike. Though this makes pure hedonites much better

The chaos warrior change is really going to hurt but everything else is pretty good.  Our battleline situation worries me a little but hopefully everything else will make up for it.  So the real question is what will be people's go to battleline from now on?  Blissbarbs are nice but die in a light breeze, painbringers are tougher but need a lord of pain to be battleline, so maybe hellstriders are going to return?

[TimeToWaste85]

It won’t be units of chariots, that’s for sure. I think this is a nail in the coffin for them. Reason being, you have to reinforce them to have anything more than a single model, and points versus wounds, it just isn’t worth it. Chariot units as battle line or effectively dead. I realize they only existed in Godseekers anyway

[Yoid]

New Arcane Bolt is like a little buff to KoS. She is a double caster and you usually dosn't have a good second spell for her. Now you can load it and basically have 1d3 MW more impact damage at the charge. Synessa can do it too but she will usually cast something more useful with her single spell. If you add the monstrous rampage that is 2d3 MWs on the charge (or when the enemy charge you) before fighting.

[Carnith]

I love new arcane bolt. 

Exalted Herald just doing even more mortal wounds on the charge. Or the Keeper using it after lore spell.

Even waiting to use it as a deterrent incase you get charged in the next turn could be good. Lastly, waiting till battleshock and poke a unit for a mw to get extra depravity. 

[AngryPanda]

In preparation for Aos 3.0, I’ve derived this list designed to generate depravity while also being relatively tanky; it will also give us a lot CP to use on the new command abilities that have been teased. It’s a bit spell-heavy, but with the changes to endless spells I feel that it will give the list a somewhat reliable means of generating MWs and depravity. I’m not sure if the Supreme Symberites detachment will be allowed in match play, and if it isn’t I’ll use the Warlord detachment instead. I personally can’t wait to try the +3 rerollable save that the Painbringers can utilize in addition to the -1 hit buff that Glutos brings.
 

The Painbringers stick with Glutos, the Lord of Pain, and the emerald swarm to hold the center of the board, while the twinsouls and the Shardspeaker move together to hit lightly armored troops or tie up anything that would be a hassle. The fiends infiltrate from the side of the board to get into the back lines early. For summons, I’ll probably bring Daemonettes to hold objectives or get stuck in, or an Infernal Enrapturess if there’s a lot of spellcasting; the fiends -1 to casting mixed with the rerolls from the Enrapturess will make the opponent’s casting attempts somewhat difficult. 

Lurid Haze

2000/2000

Reinforcements: 2/4, 1/1

Battalions:

Supreme Symberites (?), or the warlord battalion depending on how much it’s priced- 150

Heroes:

Glutos- 400

 

Shardspeaker- 150

General #1 

Artifact: Oil of Exultation

 

Lord of Pain- 150

General #2

Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation

Artifact: Rod of Misrule

 

Batteline:

Twinsouls x 5- 170

Blissbarb Archers x 10- 160

Painbringers x 10- 300

 

Beasts- 

Fiends x 6- 360

 

Endless Spells:

Emerald Swarm (50) 

Wheels of Excruciation (50)

Mesmerizing Mirror (60)

 

Summons: 

Fiends

Daemonettes

Keeper of Secret

Infernal Enrapturess

Edited June 13, 2021 by AngryPanda

[Enoby]

Just had a rough game against Orruk Warclans using what we know of 3rd rules

Ended in a round 5 draw and summoned 2 keepers throughout the game. I made some very big mistakes - if I'd have not messed up with a twinsoul charge into the mawkrusha, I reckon I would have clinched it because that Krusha was tearing through my army.

My list:

Invaders host

Keeper of Secrets 

Dexcessa (general 1)

Lord of Pain (general 2, Glory Hog, Rod of Misrule)

Battleline

Painbringers ×5

Blissbarb archers ×11

Twinsouls ×10

Daemonettes ×10

Other

Slickblades ×5

Slickblades ×5

Wheels of Excruciation

Off the bat, I will admit I left the wheels to the side and forgot about them. This is totally on me because I wasn't paying attention at the start of the hero phase. 

In addition to that, I made a massive mistake in sending in the twinsouls into the Mawkrusha which put itself on a 2+ save. Very bad idea on my behalf as I just forgot about that ability. It's an absolute monster, and looking back I think it needed the KoS and Slickblades on it - though I can see the Krusha going up in points. 

Some thoughts:

Dexcessa did quite a lot of damage (12 on a charge), but had a very nasty 8 mortal wounds to the face and crumpled turn 1. Though I think I misused them with where I went

KoS (all three of them) were the stars of the show. Their healing is incredible - d3 from the hero ability, d3/6 from their claw, d3 from their spell. I think they healed 25+ wounds between them, so they need to be killed first turn.

Lord of Pain didn't do anything besides sit on an objective and hold an artifact - but that's all I wanted

Blissbarbs were actually surprisingly good. They did a lot of damage and killed a decent chunk with the +1 to hit. I'll investigate a unit of 33...

Painbringers, actually managed to tank three turns of the megaboss. They didn't do much damage but I was very surprised by their tankiness - will look at taking more

Twinsouls, I screwed up with them as I said. Had a brain ****** and just forgot the 2+ save. They did roll 21 wounds, so against a proper target they should have done much much more if I'd have used them properly. 

Slickblades, very fast and did good damage, but was a mistake to put them into brutes. I think I'd have swapped one unit out for an epitome

Overall, we felt much stronger. The depravity generation was very good as the first turn charge gave me the chance to summon a KoS turn 2. Command point generation was absolutely fantastic despite getting a 1 first turn on the rod of misrule. Warclans have always been (imo) one of our hardest opponents because they hit so hard, but with Locus of Diversion and command abilities, we did very well.

We used one of the new battleplans  

Definitely a lot to learn, but very fun. Planning ahead is going to be paramount.

[Poryague]

2 hours ago, Enoby said:

Just had a rough game against Orruk Warclans using what we know of 3rd rules

Ended in a round 5 draw and summoned 2 keepers throughout the game. I made some very big mistakes - if I'd have not messed up with a twinsoul charge into the mawkrusha, I reckon I would have clinched it because that Krusha was tearing through my army.

My list:

Invaders host

Keeper of Secrets 

Dexcessa (general 1)

Lord of Pain (general 2, Glory Hog, Rod of Misrule)

Battleline

Painbringers ×5

Blissbarb archers ×11

Twinsouls ×10

Daemonettes ×10

Other

Slickblades ×5

Slickblades ×5

Wheels of Excruciation

Off the bat, I will admit I left the wheels to the side and forgot about them. This is totally on me because I wasn't paying attention at the start of the hero phase. 

In addition to that, I made a massive mistake in sending in the twinsouls into the Mawkrusha which put itself on a 2+ save. Very bad idea on my behalf as I just forgot about that ability. It's an absolute monster, and looking back I think it needed the KoS and Slickblades on it - though I can see the Krusha going up in points. 

Some thoughts:

Dexcessa did quite a lot of damage (12 on a charge), but had a very nasty 8 mortal wounds to the face and crumpled turn 1. Though I think I misused them with where I went

KoS (all three of them) were the stars of the show. Their healing is incredible - d3 from the hero ability, d3/6 from their claw, d3 from their spell. I think they healed 25+ wounds between them, so they need to be killed first turn.

Lord of Pain didn't do anything besides sit on an objective and hold an artifact - but that's all I wanted

Blissbarbs were actually surprisingly good. They did a lot of damage and killed a decent chunk with the +1 to hit. I'll investigate a unit of 33...

Painbringers, actually managed to tank three turns of the megaboss. They didn't do much damage but I was very surprised by their tankiness - will look at taking more

Twinsouls, I screwed up with them as I said. Had a brain ****** and just forgot the 2+ save. They did roll 21 wounds, so against a proper target they should have done much much more if I'd have used them properly. 

Slickblades, very fast and did good damage, but was a mistake to put them into brutes. I think I'd have swapped one unit out for an epitome

Overall, we felt much stronger. The depravity generation was very good as the first turn charge gave me the chance to summon a KoS turn 2. Command point generation was absolutely fantastic despite getting a 1 first turn on the rod of misrule. Warclans have always been (imo) one of our hardest opponents because they hit so hard, but with Locus of Diversion and command abilities, we did very well.

We used one of the new battleplans  

Definitely a lot to learn, but very fun. Planning ahead is going to be paramount.

Did you build using the new reserves and all that stuff if so did change list building for either of you?

Did inspiring presence change of 1 use come up in the battle because I have had battles where people stored cp and inspired multiple units. 

[AngryPanda]

7 hours ago, Enoby said:

Just had a rough game against Orruk Warclans using what we know of 3rd rules

Ended in a round 5 draw and summoned 2 keepers throughout the game. I made some very big mistakes - if I'd have not messed up with a twinsoul charge into the mawkrusha, I reckon I would have clinched it because that Krusha was tearing through my army.

My list:

Invaders host

Keeper of Secrets 

Dexcessa (general 1)

Lord of Pain (general 2, Glory Hog, Rod of Misrule)

Battleline

Painbringers ×5

Blissbarb archers ×11

Twinsouls ×10

Daemonettes ×10

Other

Slickblades ×5

Slickblades ×5

Wheels of Excruciation

Off the bat, I will admit I left the wheels to the side and forgot about them. This is totally on me because I wasn't paying attention at the start of the hero phase. 

In addition to that, I made a massive mistake in sending in the twinsouls into the Mawkrusha which put itself on a 2+ save. Very bad idea on my behalf as I just forgot about that ability. It's an absolute monster, and looking back I think it needed the KoS and Slickblades on it - though I can see the Krusha going up in points. 

Some thoughts:

Dexcessa did quite a lot of damage (12 on a charge), but had a very nasty 8 mortal wounds to the face and crumpled turn 1. Though I think I misused them with where I went

KoS (all three of them) were the stars of the show. Their healing is incredible - d3 from the hero ability, d3/6 from their claw, d3 from their spell. I think they healed 25+ wounds between them, so they need to be killed first turn.

Lord of Pain didn't do anything besides sit on an objective and hold an artifact - but that's all I wanted

Blissbarbs were actually surprisingly good. They did a lot of damage and killed a decent chunk with the +1 to hit. I'll investigate a unit of 33...

Painbringers, actually managed to tank three turns of the megaboss. They didn't do much damage but I was very surprised by their tankiness - will look at taking more

Twinsouls, I screwed up with them as I said. Had a brain ****** and just forgot the 2+ save. They did roll 21 wounds, so against a proper target they should have done much much more if I'd have used them properly. 

Slickblades, very fast and did good damage, but was a mistake to put them into brutes. I think I'd have swapped one unit out for an epitome

Overall, we felt much stronger. The depravity generation was very good as the first turn charge gave me the chance to summon a KoS turn 2. Command point generation was absolutely fantastic despite getting a 1 first turn on the rod of misrule. Warclans have always been (imo) one of our hardest opponents because they hit so hard, but with Locus of Diversion and command abilities, we did very well.

We used one of the new battleplans  

Definitely a lot to learn, but very fun. Planning ahead is going to be paramount.

And this also doesn’t include the theoretical point increases for Orruks and the rest of the armies in the game. If there are some decent point increases across the board, and we’re untouched, will be in a good spot and will most likely be within the same power level as many other recently released armies. 

[Enoby]

6 hours ago, Poryague said:

Did you build using the new reserves and all that stuff if so did change list building for either of you?

Did inspiring presence change of 1 use come up in the battle because I have had battles where people stored cp and inspired multiple units. 

We did use reserves, though I don't think it changed listbuilding for us Cohesion did make Ardboyz a lot worse. I also think it made Locus of Diversion stronger, simply as a unit had to be in a poor position to begin with, so not being able to correct the position helped a lot.

It did once for me - when I made the mistake of putting 10 Twinsouls into the Krusha, 5 Brutes killed four Slickblades and the Krusha killed 6 Twinsouls. I elected to save the Twinsouls to keep the Krusha put so the Slickblades died.

1 hour ago, AngryPanda said:

And this also doesn’t include the theoretical point increases for Orruks and the rest of the armies in the game. If there are some decent point increases across the board, and we’re untouched, will be in a good spot and will most likely be within the same power level as many other recently released armies. 

Yeah, I think the actual conclusion of the game isn't too important in this case, both because of the points increases and also because the Orruk Warclans book is probably getting a rull rewrite with Kruelboyz so will probably end up a totally different army. That said, if I dealt with the Mawkrusha earlier, I reckon I'd have won - problem is I'm not actually sure if we have the realistic capacity to kill a Mawkrusha on a 2+ save in one go (I don't know how many armies have this ability to be honest). Probably would require a lot of shooting and a KoS.  

[Lucentia]

16 hours ago, Apinecone said:

The chaos warrior change is really going to hurt but everything else is pretty good.  Our battleline situation worries me a little but hopefully everything else will make up for it.  So the real question is what will be people's go to battleline from now on?  Blissbarbs are nice but die in a light breeze, painbringers are tougher but need a lord of pain to be battleline, so maybe hellstriders are going to return?

Under the new coherency rules Hellstriders might be our most efficient screens in terms of board coverage if you string them out sideways, so perhaps there's some merit to them.  And in an MSU world their damage output might be a little more impactful.

[docofallplagues]

2 hours ago, Enoby said:

problem is I'm not actually sure if we have the realistic capacity to kill a Mawkrusha on a 2+ save in one go (I don't know how many armies have this ability to be honest). Probably would require a lot of shooting and a KoS.  

Being both a hedonites and FEC player I'm pretty sure a ferocious hunger buffed ghoul king on terrorgheist could do it just because of mortal wounds, if not crypt flayers might be able to under similar circumstances. The new CP generation might mean FEC can feeding frenzy a lot more. 

[Yoid]

6 hours ago, Enoby said:

We did use reserves, though I don't think it changed listbuilding for us Cohesion did make Ardboyz a lot worse. I also think it made Locus of Diversion stronger, simply as a unit had to be in a poor position to begin with, so not being able to correct the position helped a lot.

It did once for me - when I made the mistake of putting 10 Twinsouls into the Krusha, 5 Brutes killed four Slickblades and the Krusha killed 6 Twinsouls. I elected to save the Twinsouls to keep the Krusha put so the Slickblades died.

Yeah, I think the actual conclusion of the game isn't too important in this case, both because of the points increases and also because the Orruk Warclans book is probably getting a rull rewrite with Kruelboyz so will probably end up a totally different army. That said, if I dealt with the Mawkrusha earlier, I reckon I'd have won - problem is I'm not actually sure if we have the realistic capacity to kill a Mawkrusha on a 2+ save in one go (I don't know how many armies have this ability to be honest). Probably would require a lot of shooting and a KoS.  

I think you need a monster (Dex/Syn/Shalaxi/KoS) simply to roar into him, then he cannot +1 save. Even if you hit with twinsouls or wathever other unit first that change a lot. If you do so he will probably use finest hour the next turn (other way of having +1 save), but at least that turn you catch him offguard.

Exalted Chariots are not a bad bet either. 1d3/1d6 MW from charge + 1d3 MW from blades + 1d3 MW from spell.

Synessa can 1d3 MW from spell + 1d3/1d6 MW from shoot and then roar to set other units into atacking him, is a risky spot for her but everything is in danger near a Maw-Krusha.

Monsters also have the bonus option of +1 to hit with Titanic Duel just in case you figth him with two (Lets say, Synessa doing what I said before and a KoS being the one that attack with Titanic Duel) If Synessa survives to punch, the -2 rend put him into 5+ save wich is a decent chance to hit 2 or 4  more wounds (the -1 to be hit can help her survive)

I just noticed you can use Finest Hour with the summoned KoS, is somewhat close to having unlimited Finest Hours with the Keepers (unlike other heroes like the Maw-Krusha that can use it only once).

[TimeToWaste85]

4 hours ago, docofallplagues said:

Being both a hedonites and FEC player I'm pretty sure a ferocious hunger buffed ghoul king on terrorgheist could do it just because of mortal wounds, if not crypt flayers might be able to under similar circumstances. The new CP generation might mean FEC can feeding frenzy a lot more. 

Isn’t this where Shalaxi shines? Put them back in and watch them nail down a Mawcrusha. Whip (why would you ever take Aegis for only a 6++), second attack from a Keeper OR ally Kairos (point change depending) for the auto 6, generate 2 attacks on the spear and watch him drop the crusha down to be meaningless. 

[Nagashfan]

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Invaders Host
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Allies
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (260)
- Host Option: General 
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- Sinistrous Hand
- Spell: Progeny of Damnation
The Contorted Epitome (210)
- General
- Command Trait: Glory Hog  
- Artefact: The Rod of Misrule  
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation

Battleline
11 x Blissbarb Archers (160)
10 x Daemonettes (110)
10 x Daemonettes (110)

Units
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Soulscream Bridge (100)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (30)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 92
 

Thoughts lads?

[EchoHavoc]

On 6/11/2021 at 6:03 PM, CeleFAZE said:

These faction articles have largely been hit or miss, especially the SBGL article which gave no new information and seemed to have been written by someone who likely doesn't play the faction. However our article at least answers the question of whether or not we can summon larger units to bypass the reinforcement point system.

The mentioning of symbaresh and myrmadesh was interesting, though I think the more telling omission is slaangors. You'd think they'd have said something about their 2" reach, but it seems they are aware of the sorry state of the unit internally at least.

This couldn’t be further from the truth. The guy who wrote the Soul Blight article is one of if not the best death player in the U.K

They’ve just had a new book so really wasn’t much to give away.

[EchoHavoc]

I’ve heard various rumours floating round the net that all points are going to increase apart from Slaanesh. This maybe be wishful thinking, but if it’s true it puts the army is such a good place.

[Nagashfan]

If we take Kairos and Syn, does kairos know the entire lore of slaanesh?

[CeleFAZE]

2 hours ago, EchoHavoc said:

This couldn’t be further from the truth. The guy who wrote the Soul Blight article is one of if not the best death player in the U.K

They’ve just had a new book so really wasn’t much to give away.

I was referring to the article writer who described black knights as "elite" and "hard-hitting" which they are demonstrably anything but. I wasn't referring to the player they interviewed, whose input was not really objectionable in any way. 

[Enoby]

Just had another game, this time a much clearer victory - I made a small change in my list from last time and learned some things

Invaders host

Keeper of Secrets 

Dexcessa (general 1)

Lord of Pain (general 2, Glory Hog, Rod of Misrule)

Contorted epitome

Battleline

Painbringers ×5

Blissbarb archers ×11

Twinsouls ×10

Daemonettes ×10

Other

Slickblades ×5

Wheels of Excruciation

Exact same new battleplan (Rising Power) against Orruk Warclans again. This time they went first and charged the Megaboss into 10 blissbarbs (I redeployed the Twinsouls in line with them, kind of using them as bait, for 4" behind). The Megaboss, as expected, wiped them off the face of the planet. The slickblades were charged by 10 buffed savage orcs, and they killed 5 of them. On my turn, the KoS charged in as did the twinsouls (not ideal but hoping for the roar and I needed something to 'tank', so I gave them a 5++). The Mawkrusha roared on the KoS and the KoS roared on it. I cast Wheels and did a lucky 3 MW to the Krusha and 5MW to the Savage Orks. I also cast arcane bolt on the keeper, who flung it into the Krusha after the charge. Dex went into the buffing heroes at the back.

The Keeper did about 10 damage to the Krusha (with +1 to hit from fane and +1 to wound from finest hour) and the Krusha did 12 to the Twinsouls who had given themselves a 3+ save (the Krusha doing 4 damage on each of its 6-8 fists hurts A LOT). Dex killed the Wardoc general and took very little in return from the warboss next to them. The Painbringers stood in the way of the Ardboys and the daemonettes stood in the way of the Rogue idol. Slickblades finished off the orks. The Twinsouls did 4 damage onto the Mawkrusha (lots of wounds, lots of saves, but their purpose was to tank). 

They got priority, charged the daemonettes and Painbringers, and charged Dex with some big stabbas. They healed the Krusha 2 and I think the fix it beat healed them again. Dex tried to stomp a stabba but failed. Krusha went first and I got lucky with the saves, taking only 8 overall. Dex had finest hour but managed to not kill both stabbas with their 2/2 attacks with a massive amount of 1s, but they got just as unlucky and managed to only do 4 damage overall. The Arboyz charged the Painbringers and killed three (two damage each), so the leader was left on 1. The daemonettes were flattened by the idol. Dex piled in again with the Keeper and killed the last stabba and the warboss. The twinsouls finished off the megaboss. 

At this point I could summon a keeper, which I did to charge into the idol with the Slickblades going into the Savage orcs on that flank. Dex went further back into the opponent's objectives to kill their final caster. The Twinsouls and surviving keeper moved up to finish the Arboyz. At this point the opponent called it.

From this, I can attest the KoS remains very very strong, and the wheels did a tonne of damage despite being dispelled ASAP. In retrospect, I think Dex is very very good as a small hero killer - they do pretty decent damage when not rolling 1s and are mobile enough to jump around the board. Painbringers again were surprisingly tanky - I will definitely consider taking more of these. Daemonettes and blissbarbs didn't have the chance to shine. Twinsouls were a necessary punch brick that let the keeper survive and they tanked very well, though are a very pricey tank (wouldn't recommend as their primary role). 

While we can charge first turn, I think we're better taking second against most armies unless they can bring in a lot to our most vulnerable units. 

At some point, I'm hoping to use Glutos soon. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Enoby

[LeonBox]

2 hours ago, Nagashfan said:

If we take Kairos and Syn, does kairos know the entire lore of slaanesh?

No -- he only knows the warscroll spells of friendly wizards. 

[Nagashfan]

13 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

No -- he only knows the warscroll spells of friendly wizards. 

Yeah I ment taking him as part of a slaanesh army with syn also