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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion


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5 minutes ago, Poryague said:

"On the flip side, you really need to think about Battleshock now, as only one unit can benefit from the Inspiring Presence command ability."

so inspiring presence can be used to save one unit from battleshock from the sound of it. So multiple battleshocks happen better choose wisely.

That battleshock immunity spell and Syll'Esske looking a lot more important now...

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1 minute ago, Nagashfan said:

Unless they nerf it and the mirror…. Which I bet will happen

I reckon they'll nerf most of the generic endless spells, but I can't see them taking the time to change every endless spell. I think our units were written with AoS 3 in mind, so why not nerf it from the get go if it wasn't meant for AoS 3

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3 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I reckon they'll nerf most of the generic endless spells, but I can't see them taking the time to change every endless spell. I think our units were written with AoS 3 in mind, so why not nerf it from the get go if it wasn't meant for AoS 3

Just the pessimism in me I guess 🤷🏼‍♂️ Hope they don’t get changed

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Also, I'm on a Whatsapp group with someone who has seen some of the AoS 3 rules (they're a famous AoS personality and they play exclusively (?) Slaanesh and were very disappointed in our book)

They've said they're "VERY excited" about AoS 3 and have also said "But yeah, Stonks on the Masque are HIGH" and it's not just for the 6" pile in...

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7 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I reckon they'll nerf most of the generic endless spells, but I can't see them taking the time to change every endless spell. I think our units were written with AoS 3 in mind, so why not nerf it from the get go if it wasn't meant for AoS 3

Looking at new cogs it got a nerf and a weird buff. Only gives +1 to charge a lot less impactful for movement and lost reroll save. It gained however wizards (meaning all) gain 1 additional cast while within 6 inches. It became a powerful boost to casting.

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I find it interesting that we can now make Daemonettes as a example hit on 3+ Wound on 3+ and have 4+ save. We can also bring back each model slain on a 6+ from New command. Also reroll 1 to hit in pretenders.

The thing that probably annoys people is a lot of armies came built to give those +1 bonuses and other mechanics. Now if stacking bonuses is limited then the armies that have those mechanics they will not be able to double dip. So long as double dipping does not happen then some armies will see more limited gains. We now have to manage cp well in order to benefit from these changes.

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Well with the way shooting is shaping up with Unleash Hell, I find it hard to see how will fragile melee army live. It will be like the battle of Somme, 4+ save or no.

That said, did Lurid Haze just significantly drop in utility with the introduction of AOD?

The only reason to take it now is outflank I guess.

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2 minutes ago, Golub87 said:

Well with the way shooting is shaping up with Unleash Hell, I find it hard to see how will fragile melee army live. It will be like the battle of Somme, 4+ save or no.

That said, did Lurid Haze just significantly drop in utility with the introduction of AOD?

The only reason to take it now is outflank I guess.

Aod does offer some more survability in shooting phase now then it did. Though the uptick in mw shooting is an even bigger problem since we don't have a lot of after saves.

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1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Also, I'm on a Whatsapp group with someone who has seen some of the AoS 3 rules (they're a famous AoS personality and they play exclusively (?) Slaanesh and were very disappointed in our book)

They've said they're "VERY excited" about AoS 3 and have also said "But yeah, Stonks on the Masque are HIGH" and it's not just for the 6" pile in...

Vito from MWG? Facehammer guy? Maybe it’s the combo of 6” flying pile in and a ward save?

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4 hours ago, Golub87 said:

Well with the way shooting is shaping up with Unleash Hell, I find it hard to see how will fragile melee army live. It will be like the battle of Somme, 4+ save or no.

That said, did Lurid Haze just significantly drop in utility with the introduction of AOD?

The only reason to take it now is outflank I guess.

If the rumour about individual command abilities only being usable once per phase rings out, then it would still be great as you'd have two abilities to use on two separate units. The once per phase thing would also let us get around Unleash Hell by charging in chaff first to force/absorb the "overwatch" then charging the valuable unit afterward. 

Also, we need to see if faction battalions are disappearing or not, as Seeker Cavalcade is an obvious hard counter to Unleash Hell, and gives Slaanesh arguably the best means of circumventing it (for a combat army) given our high mobility. 

Edited by Jaskier
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39 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

If the rumour about individual command abilities only being usable once per phase rings out, then it would still be great as you'd have two abilities to use on two separate units. The once per phase thing would also let us get around Unleash Hell by charging in chaff first to force/absorb the "overwatch" then charging the valuable unit afterward. 

Also, we need to see if faction battalions are disappearing or not, as Seeker Cavalcade is an obvious hard counter to Unleash Hell, and gives Slaanesh arguably the best means of circumventing it (for a combat army) given our high mobility. 

Even if it goes away we have the Masque to pull some shenanigans. 

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Also worth a thought is if this retreat if charged is a thing. It could reduce the number of models that get in range depending on how it works. So take kos as an example it gets charge and maybe the charge is enough for the whole charging unit to get all models into combat roughly before they pile in. We'll if you retreat d6 and let's say they still catch you but the kos still moves that d6 and the charging now doesn't get the wrap around and needs the pile in to get more models in the kos can locus them and deny the pile. This would reduce incoming attacks or just take the +1 save.

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One pretty nice thing to note is that daemonettes can still screen in a straight line with the new rules. Their base size means the models at the end will be within 1" of the model next to them, and also within 1" of the model next to that one due to the small base size. 

This potentially makes them a more useful screen than warriors if we need something to stretch across the board.

Also, chaos warriors have become very questionable in units of 10. The halberds will reach but do tiny damage, whereas the other weapons just won't do anything. It's not a buff, but it does mean Painbringers have a niche of almost always doing more damage than chaos warriors, even if there's double the number of warriors.

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3 hours ago, Enoby said:

One pretty nice thing to note is that daemonettes can still screen in a straight line with the new rules. Their base size means the models at the end will be within 1" of the model next to them, and also within 1" of the model next to that one due to the small base size. 

This potentially makes them a more useful screen than warriors if we need something to stretch across the board.

Also, chaos warriors have become very questionable in units of 10. The halberds will reach but do tiny damage, whereas the other weapons just won't do anything. It's not a buff, but it does mean Painbringers have a niche of almost always doing more damage than chaos warriors, even if there's double the number of warriors.

A screen of 5 32mm cover more space for a screen. Thats because to do the trick of coherency in Daemonettes you got to put them completely together without any space between bases. That is good for fighting as Daemonettes dosn't got to bother with double ranking. But for screening, a unit of 5 Painbringers can space themselves 1 inch between models and as they have 32mm will effectively cover more space in a straight line as a frontline barrier. Same can be said about Chaos Warriors, but they loose the reroll to save.

Painbringers are better now with the +1 to save CA, you can easily make them 3+ rerolling (3+ not rerolling in the shooting phase) in any sub-faction. The +1 to hit CA is also good because now combine with the Viceleader/bladebringer reroll 1s. I still think they need a 10 to 20 points reduction, but they gained a lot more synergies. +1 to hit CA in Twinsouls is really good. Probably usable by the champions not even needing a hero nearby.

As an opposing note, Dex/Syn/Shalaxi/KoS roaring is gonna be really important to stop the enemy CAs (+1 to hit and +1 to save)

Edited by Yoid
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Some rules from a supposed leak, my thoughts in bold:

- The players receive an extra command point if their General in on the table in the Hero Phase. Command Points not spent at the end of the Battle Round are lost. Very nice for invaders, especially with the heroic inspiration hero command. 2 extra command points a turn? Yes please

- Redeploy: A reactive Command Ability that is used in the enemy movement phase, and that allows moving a unit D6". Interesting for us; both can be used for and against. It does give units like Hellstriders a niche use as a portable blockade 

- Run and Movement Phase Command Abilities: A Unit that has rolled a Run roll cannot then be Commanded to "At the double" (where the run roll counts as a 6) - the decision has to be made whether to roll the dice of At the Double. A Player can no longer roll the dice, get a poor result and the choose to spend the command point to make the roll count as 6 - it's either/or, not both. I guess it's a nerf, but hardly noticable for us.

- Charge Phase Command Abilites: Forward to Victory is a Command aBility that allows charging units to reroll the charge roll. Unleash Hell is a reactive Command Ability that allows a unit near to the charging enemy unit to shoot the charging unit. We know this already. 

- Pile In: Models no longer need to pile in towards the nearest enemy modely. "The new wording is: When you male a pile-in move with a model, it must finish the move no further from the nearest enemy unit than it was at the start of the move." As such you can move around the edge of a unit when piling in. Good for the Masque and nice tor piling around if needs be

-Attack Sequence: Hit Roll and Wound Roll modifiers are capped at +1/-1. The cap on negatives hurt but was expected. Importantly they do not mention saves - this means Lurid Haze's save bonus and the command ability save bonus can be combined

- Slain models: A minor change that has a large impact on some armies: slain models are now not removed until all wounds caused to its unit have been allocated and all attacks that inflicted damage on the unit have been resolved. I don't think this really matters for us, unless I'm misunderstanding

- Wards: Some abilities allow ward rolls. Wards offer protection against wounds and mortal wounds before being allocated to a model. A successful ward roll negates a wound or mortal wound, and that damage has no effect on the model. Just simpler wording 

- Contesting Objectives: Unless rules take precedence, Monsters count as 5 models, and non-monsters with a wound characteristic of 5 or more (heroes), count as 2 models when Contesting Objectives. Pretty nice for the twins and the KoS. Does make summoning a keeper more valuable 

- Miscasts: Wizards who roll an unmodified cast roll of "2" miscast their spell. They suffer D3 mortal wounds and cannot attempt to cast any more Spells in that Hero Phase. Contorted Epitome nice against this, but more importantly there's a very low but quite funny chance that the enrapturess will cause 2d3 MWs

- Spells: Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield are now both cast on a "5". The effects of both speels have also both changed slightly, although very similar, they have a shorter range but are both more powerful. Need more info

- Pitched battle Profiles and Unit Size: Unit Maximums have now been removed but Reinforced Units have been introduced, as well as a limit of Reinforced Units in Marched Play. "Single" has been introduced as a keyword for Pitched Battle Profiles. "Single" Units cannot be Reinforced. Need more info. But generally MSU is good for us

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29 minutes ago, Enoby said:

- Slain models: A minor change that has a large impact on some armies: slain models are now not removed until all wounds caused to its unit have been allocated and all attacks that inflicted damage on the unit have been resolved. I don't think this really matters for us, unless I'm misunderstanding

Only thing I can think of is OBR with their Harvester recycling a ridiculous amount of models but mostly a way to clean up any overlapping abilities/attacks.

In general, looks pretty good for us (or in general). Lurid Haze, as you mentioned, has a lot of play if these are correct. Though with a smaller board I also think Godseekers are going to add a lot of consistency across the, well, board.

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26 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Some rules from a supposed leak, my thoughts in bold:

- The players receive an extra command point if their General in on the table in the Hero Phase. Command Points not spent at the end of the Battle Round are lost. Very nice for invaders, especially with the heroic inspiration hero command. 2 extra command points a turn? Yes please

- Redeploy: A reactive Command Ability that is used in the enemy movement phase, and that allows moving a unit D6". Interesting for us; both can be used for and against. It does give units like Hellstriders a niche use as a portable blockade 

- Run and Movement Phase Command Abilities: A Unit that has rolled a Run roll cannot then be Commanded to "At the double" (where the run roll counts as a 6) - the decision has to be made whether to roll the dice of At the Double. A Player can no longer roll the dice, get a poor result and the choose to spend the command point to make the roll count as 6 - it's either/or, not both. I guess it's a nerf, but hardly noticable for us.

- Charge Phase Command Abilites: Forward to Victory is a Command aBility that allows charging units to reroll the charge roll. Unleash Hell is a reactive Command Ability that allows a unit near to the charging enemy unit to shoot the charging unit. We know this already. 

- Pile In: Models no longer need to pile in towards the nearest enemy modely. "The new wording is: When you male a pile-in move with a model, it must finish the move no further from the nearest enemy unit than it was at the start of the move." As such you can move around the edge of a unit when piling in. Good for the Masque and nice tor piling around if needs be

-Attack Sequence: Hit Roll and Wound Roll modifiers are capped at +1/-1. The cap on negatives hurt but was expected. Importantly they do not mention saves - this means Lurid Haze's save bonus and the command ability save bonus can be combined

- Slain models: A minor change that has a large impact on some armies: slain models are now not removed until all wounds caused to its unit have been allocated and all attacks that inflicted damage on the unit have been resolved. I don't think this really matters for us, unless I'm misunderstanding

- Wards: Some abilities allow ward rolls. Wards offer protection against wounds and mortal wounds before being allocated to a model. A successful ward roll negates a wound or mortal wound, and that damage has no effect on the model. Just simpler wording 

- Contesting Objectives: Unless rules take precedence, Monsters count as 5 models, and non-monsters with a wound characteristic of 5 or more (heroes), count as 2 models when Contesting Objectives. Pretty nice for the twins and the KoS. Does make summoning a keeper more valuable 

- Miscasts: Wizards who roll an unmodified cast roll of "2" miscast their spell. They suffer D3 mortal wounds and cannot attempt to cast any more Spells in that Hero Phase. Contorted Epitome nice against this, but more importantly there's a very low but quite funny chance that the enrapturess will cause 2d3 MWs

- Spells: Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield are now both cast on a "5". The effects of both speels have also both changed slightly, although very similar, they have a shorter range but are both more powerful. Need more info

- Pitched battle Profiles and Unit Size: Unit Maximums have now been removed but Reinforced Units have been introduced, as well as a limit of Reinforced Units in Marched Play. "Single" has been introduced as a keyword for Pitched Battle Profiles. "Single" Units cannot be Reinforced. Need more info. But generally MSU is good for us

Really interesting.

The run 6inch CA is still good with us despite the nerf, as many of our units can run and charge or run and shoot (Daemonettes, Seekers, Blissbarb Archers, Viceleader, Dexcessa, Syl'Eskke.) With the increase in command points is gonna be easier to make Daemonettes automatically move 12 when needed or Dexcessa to automatically move 18. Is quite powerful.

The cap to hit and wound is good in general. I feel bad for Glutos and Dex/Syn because now reactive shoot dosn't have a penalty agaisnt them, but I prefer that to other armies stacking +2 or +3 to something. It encourages spreading the buffs and engaging with more things at a time instead of hyperbuffing one unit. That will probably encourage more back and forth in the combat phase. And we dosn't have +1 to hit (except in a once per battle artifact) so we get good value out of the generic CA.

Pile in change are really good, with the new coherency rules units cannot spread like before, so is fine to simplify this, wich was a nightmare to most new players to learn.

Contesting objectives changes are really good. Good value on Dex/Syn with the 12inch flying movement. Not as good for the KoS/Shalaxi but still good enough. A hero counting as 2 is not that big, but if he is nearby a unit of say 10 daemonettes making it count as 12 it got some value. This affect regular non-hero chariots and exalted chariots too.

Misscast: Uhm... not sure how to feel about this. I guess is good as a nerf to armies that spam magic... but is another nerf to Synessa as a caster. Pretty small, but I still think she need some help to not be fully dependant of Cogs. She still have around 50% chance to fail her spell and they added a 1/36 chance of suffering D3 MWs.

Spell Changes: Mystic Shield is probably +1 save within 12inch. Arcane bolt with reduced range is peculiar. Maybe it deal D3 damage now, or the value needed to improve the damage is lower.

Unit Size: Sound like units only have two sizes now. Base Size and Reinforced Size. (Something like 5-10 twinsouls or 10-20 Daemonettes. But we may see weird stuff like Daemonettes being strictly 10 or 30) With a limit on the number of Reinforced Size units you can take. Single sound like Unique, like the named heroes and such, but we may see more regular troops going into single, some extremely elite units. Our army dosn't have much of that kind.

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