AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[azdimy]

The way I read these only 1 hero can carry out an heroic action so the masque ability is still very much relevant. Also the heroic action are declared in the hero phase. In lurid haze, if Sigvald redeploys, he won t be  on the table to pick an heroic action

Edited June 3, 2021 by azdimy

[TimeToWaste85]

1 hour ago, azdimy said:

The way I read these only 1 hero can carry out an heroic action so the masque ability is still very much relevant. Also the heroic action are declared in the hero phase. In lurid haze, if Sigvald redeploys, he won t be  on the table to pick an heroic action

He’s still a seeker missile that the opponent is forced to allocate resources to destroying. Because if not killed after that first attack, he is going to delete anything he touches. 

[Jaskier]

From what I have heard about the new edition, command points are 'reset' each round, meaning you lose any you don't spend in that round. This is big for us in a few ways, the notable one being that Invaders generate them super fast - however, we have to see the exact wording, because it could very well mean the bonus CP that the Syll'Esskan Host starts with have to be burned immediately or be wasted. 

The hero and monster rules individually are pretty cool, and much moreso when combined on something that benefits from both - Keepers, the Twins, Archaon, etc. Archaon is absolutely terrifying with these new rules in Lurid Haze, as he can stick around with a boosted 2+ save, heal D3 wounds in the enemy hero phase and up to 3D3 wounds (Born/Progeny of Damnation, Dorghar's heal and the hero ability heal) in friendly bero phases all without needing support from another unit, and obviously he's utterly brutal with Finest Hour active. Roaring to shut down Inspiring Presence is huge for monster mash lists to win the objective game. 

In general, we just have a lot of stuff that gets insane value out of Finest Hour thanks to our generally good combat profiles combined with Slaanesh' trademark speed. Exalted Chariots and Sigvald are obvious winners here. Keepers get a lot of mileage out of just being able to constantly heal an extra D3 each turn on top of their Sinistrous Hand and spell-based heals. 

Overall though, besides Archaon, Dexcessa seems like our biggest winner with the new rules. Save that Finest Hour for late-game once she's powered up, and use the self-heal and Lurid Haze command to keep her alive, all the while using a free command each turn and dealing mortal wounds/shutting off command abilities, etc, then point her at something big, activate her Finest Hour and obliterate whatever you touch. Let's not forget her obscene terrain destruction potential with a 14" flying move on top of the ability to run and charge. 

Synessa possibly being able to benefit from new cover rules (modifiers are apparently capped in 3.0, so she gets no value from Look Out Sir) is nice, but her unlimited command range is fairly interesting with what we've learned. It almost certainly means there will be commands that are hero-specific, and it's also good because it means you needn't worry about making her a general. She's still looking like the weaker of the two at the moment, but we'll have to wait for everything to drop before we can make any informed judgements. 

Side-note, bonus mortals each charge phase on our monsters is gonna be big for our Depravity generation - there's always cases where the unit receiving a charge dies before it strikes, or you get charged by multiple units and want to focus your attacks in one spot. I really wish my upcoming GT had these new rules in play for my Archaon and 3 Soul Grinders, but oh well. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Jaskier

[azdimy]

2 hours ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

He’s still a seeker missile that the opponent is forced to allocate resources to destroying. Because if not killed after that first attack, he is going to delete anything he touches. 

But he s no different than what he is today. I ve killed Sigvald before with 20 marauders in one go no problem. To me he s still an overcosted 6 wound hero ay 260pts

[LeonBox]

4 hours ago, azdimy said:

But he s no different than what he is today. I ve killed Sigvald before with 20 marauders in one go no problem. To me he s still an overcosted 6 wound hero ay 260pts

You must have rolled super well! 20 marauders with axes, assuming they can all reach, put through 3 unsaved wounds on Sigvald statistically. With flails, it's around 2. I'm counting only marauder horde bonuses and not any other buffs, of course. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

15 hours ago, Poryague said:

I would like to see like a command reaction evasive maneuver -1 to shooting attacks. Even if it's tied to being within some range of terrain as a restriction. Your not just gonna stand there and get shot your going to try to evade.

I believe that was one of the reactions that was mentioned in the ListLab video, so you are almost certain to get your wish.

[Enoby]

12 hours ago, Rawenwing said:

Hey guys, long time lurker but i haven’t actually written anything yet. I don’t know if the new rules were already been pointed out but i want to try and give a breakdown from the top of my inexperience with slaanesh ( i will play my first game with slaanesh next week hopefully). 

So, starting off, i think it’s safe to say that we could be the best chaos faction around ( i play mainly tzeentch) with hero-centered builds, sure, losing supreme sybarites sucks but still. Also, now we have the potential to generate command points similar to seraphon if not better, so Invaders is by a long stretch our best subfaction ( RAW three generals means three extra cp’s per turn and if we lose one it’s not that big of a deal cause we can generate extra cp on a 2+ followed by another 2+ from the rod of misrule). When it comes to units, i think Dexcessa is the clear winner by far (said by someone who gave himself the specific task to make synessa work, so sad) the ability to give her +1 to wound and +1 save means that she’s rapidly becoming our best cost-effective unit in the tome, not to mention exploding sixes and the double activation from the keeper. Also, if an FAQ clarifies whether she actually is a greater demon or not, you can smash units into oblivion with effectively impact hits, or you can swing without worry too much about retaliation thanks to the locus and the ability to shut down commands for a turn. The other unit that surprised me was the herald on exalted chariot, in invaders pretty good, but in godseekers she can become an absolute monster with that +1 wound and save and amazing healing potential between spells and heroic actions and that +1 to wound is something that most slaanesh heroes desperately need. All in all, i think that from a very strong mid/high tier we can easily become top 5 or even top 3 among the best armies in the game.

what do you guys think?

I think you're right for the most part (though not certain on top 5-3 simply because we don't break the game). I agree that we're considerably better than Khorne (who I really hope gets a new battletome soon that is not as dull as the current) and Nurgle (who is hurt quite a bit by the new monster rules, considering the GUO isn't really a combat champ and their scenery is pretty important). Tzeentch is stronger, no question there, but I can see them on the wrong end of the nerf bat soon and they're often not fun to play against.

That said, I think we've benefited a lot from the AoS 3 rules, with only the loss of battalions stinging. Unlike some armies, we have fast, killy hero-monsters and the ability to generate loads of CP, both of which interacts really well for us. In addition, because we don't have many innate buffs, I think that these core battalion abilities will almost always work without risking redundancy from stacking.

Dexcessa is looking pretty good when compared to Sigvald (or better yet, take both). All of these extra abilities and also not really costing very much points wise is a very good sign. 

Archaon will also be incredible, but I'm expecting him to shoot up in points (probably to 900). We shall see - but I think he'll have play. 

Overall, I think we're getting a big buff in AoS 3. All we need now is a points reduction (or everyone else's goes up) and we're set.

[Enoby]

Also, @CarkFish, did you get your game in?

[azdimy]

10 hours ago, LeonBox said:

You must have rolled super well! 20 marauders with axes, assuming they can all reach, put through 3 unsaved wounds on Sigvald statistically. With flails, it's around 2. I'm counting only marauder horde bonuses and not any other buffs, of course. 

You are right, statistically it should have been about 4 wounds but he rolled poorly on his 4+ after save

The unit had hand axes and shields

[Enoby]

For those interested in size

[Nagashfan]

42 minutes ago, Enoby said:

For those interested in size

Got both or just dex?

[TimeToWaste85]

oh, that is a difference in body size. But with the cape/wings/peacock butt it’s slightly bigger. Smaller than originally expected, bigger than price/wounds implied. 

[Yoid]

3 hours ago, Enoby said:

For those interested in size

The model is so cool. My store dosn't let me grab her until monday.

[AngryPanda]

Physically, Dex is a lot smaller than the much more muscular Keeper; now I can see why she was pointed at 280 and given 10 wounds. 

[Enoby]

16 hours ago, Nagashfan said:

Got both or just dex?

Sorry, should have made it clear that this isn't my picture. I have just got Dex at the moment, but will get Syn - just don't want too much painting backlog

[Sorrow]

So, I read the Broken Realms Kragnos and I have mixed feelings on the way Slaaneshi side was handled.

SPOILER WARNING:

Spoiler

First, they are literal children of Slaanesh, even calling Slaanesh "their father".  So I would assume that they are mighty indeed, but the way the get killed by a family of vampire hunters is just absolutely tragicomic. Also, where are all the Hedonites? In Broken Realms short stories, we are told that Sigvald, Glutos and that named Lord of Pain are all going towards Excelsis? Nobody of them appears. Their final talk with Belakor implies once again some grand Slaaneshi scheme going on, maybe GW will follow on it, maybe not.

 

[Carnith]

Maybe we will finally get an update to lore in our next book... in 2-3 years. While we have a model designer that absolutely loves us as a faction, but lore writers and designers don't know what to do with us. I know we're not the good guys, but perhaps the literal children of Slaanesh should've maybe had a win against the witch hunters or against the city. 

None of the other named characters is a waste too, made it seem like a build up that led to no where. We could've had a new host or perhaps new subhosts for Glutos and Sigvald.

[Sorrow]

14 minutes ago, Carnith said:

Maybe we will finally get an update to lore in our next book... in 2-3 years. While we have a model designer that absolutely loves us as a faction, but lore writers and designers don't know what to do with us. I know we're not the good guys, but perhaps the literal children of Slaanesh should've maybe had a win against the witch hunters or against the city. 

None of the other named characters is a waste too, made it seem like a build up that led to no where. We could've had a new host or perhaps new subhosts for Glutos and Sigvald.

Our models are beautiful. But our lore is simply a disaster. Even famous online reviewers who covered our new battletome already said it made little sense, now with Broken Realms ending, it makes even less sense. 

The Twins get wasted by a family of witch/vampire hunters in a completely tragicomic way. The only thing that the Twins should have said "We will get you next time!" and magic of Saturday morning cartoon villains would be complete.

Also, despite the fact that we got two BR short stories where it appears Hedonites armies are moving towards Excelsis, literally nobody shows up. Nobody. Where are Sigvald and Glutos?

[Poryague]

Slaanesh feels like a mess right now. We have warscrolls written for next edition we have artifacts and command traits that dabble in cp that may not function very good in next edition.  Our points seem to have been counting next edition as well as be pointed for the type of summoning we initially had.  A shard speaker even taking summoning and next edition into consideration should not cost about the same as a bloodwrack shrine from dok.  Dok book seems it should of been released along side the initial slaanesh release not now with across the board massive points reductions.

Comparing to the other god books and std our synergies are a bit underwhelming because of ranges, lack of options (some options are strong like double activation) and points. New commands will help with this as it will give us more things to do with units.

The way things look is a lot if armies should see point increases across multiple hero and or monster units with these new rules. I think the summer points update is probably going to be a mess. We may not see accurate points changes until summer next year for anyone because of edition change.

[Nagashfan]

3 hours ago, Sorrow said:

So, I read the Broken Realms Kragnos and I have mixed feelings on the way Slaaneshi side was handled.

SPOILER WARNING:

  Hide contents

First, they are literal children of Slaanesh, even calling Slaanesh "their father".  So I would assume that they are mighty indeed, but the way the get killed by a family of vampire hunters is just absolutely tragicomic. Also, where are all the Hedonites? In Broken Realms short stories, we are told that Sigvald, Glutos and that named Lord of Pain are all going towards Excelsis? Nobody of them appears. Their final talk with Belakor implies once again some grand Slaaneshi scheme going on, maybe GW will follow on it, maybe not.

 

Any new allegiance rules for slaanesh?

[shinros]

2 hours ago, Nagashfan said:

Any new allegiance rules for slaanesh?

No, just the rules for the twins and a battalion. Not even an update for the slaangor.

[TimeToWaste85]

how are the rules for the battalion? Wondering if book has any value for me

[Nagashfan]

3 hours ago, shinros said:

No, just the rules for the twins and a battalion. Not even an update for the slaangor.

Ah darn!

[Jaskier]

6 hours ago, shinros said:

Not even an update for the slaangor.

I don't know why anyone would have thought otherwise, these books wouldn't have been written that far apart. 

[Enoby]

Bit of a random note, but thinking on these hero abilities in AoS 3, I think Glutos is going to be really strong. If we're not using finest hour, then we can pretty easily heal him d3 (his bravery may even count as 10 due to his turn 1 ability - not sure on this). Unlike Archaon (who will also be amazing but I reckon will see a points boost), he's 400 points. If endless spells move every turn (rather than round), then we can heal him 4d3 a battleround pretty easily. 

I think Glutos may end up close to unkillable when he gets a 2+ save, -1 to hit, 5++ ward save, and healing 2d3 or 4d3 a round. Obviously we may not always want to heal him, but it's an option. He's also pretty speedy so can tarpit well - stick him into a scary monster and keep it still for a while, while still providing debuffs and buffs to the battle. 

Here's an idea for a kind of dumb alpha strike list with more of a focus of heroes and monsters:

Lurid Haze invaders

Keeper of Secrets 

Sigvald - general

Contorted Epitome - general

Dexcessa

Chaos warriors ×5 

Chaos warriors ×5 

Chaos warriors ×5

Blissbarb archers ×11

Slickblade seekers ×5

Slickblade seekers ×5

Chronomatic cogs 

2000/2000 (will be edited when we know more about battalions)

The tactic is simple - stick the epitome as far back as it will possibly go, out of 30". Set up in regards to what the opponent can do to you first turn, but you want to take first turn. Pray the epitome casts a 7 rerolling. Sigvald teleports, Keeper moves up (or teleports depending on screens), Dexcessa also moves up but preferably closer to faction terrain. Slickblades move up to. Warriors sit on point. Blissbarbs shoot whatever needs shooting (preferably screens). 

Then you just charge everything, giving fane bonus to keeper and finest hour (2s and 2s all the way), use whichever monster ability is appropriate, letting Sigvald pile in twice, let Dexcessa break scenery, let Slickblades wreck face. 

The opponent is hopefully sufficiently rattled. I don't know if you will win, but you will rattle them.

Thinking about it, why not just go full 2019 and swap Sigvald and a unit of chaos warriors for a second keeper and go normal invaders (Glory Hog on the Epitome, and the rod of misrule). Keepers make each other pile in twice and get more monster moves. Also Dexcessa will command one for free, but no clue what the new commands are.