AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[CeleFAZE]

I wonder if they'll use this book to rewrite the Syll'Esskan Host, or make a comparable though more generic host focused on mortals and daemons.

My personal wishlist would be something that could give all non-hedonite Slaanesh units in the host the hedonite keyword.

[shinros]

Sort of have a query, thanks to a poster discovered the trailer music for the hedonites video, the twins? It's far more difficult to pin-point the track, I honestly wish the community team would at least mention the track they used...

[Carnith]

Yo i'm super excited for the twins. I'm hoping for some good rules... but I'm not holding my breath.

What I want to see is like Sigvald's host. It's mentioned in the sigvald/glutos power hour story. Doubt we would see it though. Maybe a battalion would be nice. 

[Nagash42]

Sigvalds host would have a rule about Sigvald getting bored of them and running off on his own lol. 

[shinros]

Just want to point out we likely saw the twins in Sigvald's Broken Realms story, the twins are in BR Kragnos, which is taking place in ghur. Then we have the twin snakes. It seems Synessa is the clear talker of the duo considering the title it bears, but you know what, I think Dexcessa is kinda fun to read about now that we know that the daemon is the angry boi/girl of the duo lol.  

That thrashing immensity took on a sinuous shape: a two-headed serpent, one visage sleek and refined, the other an angular mass of shining horns and fangs. As the latter head moved to tear at the duardin corpses, mangling them into more twisted forms, the former cast its lidless gaze about the chamber before focusing on the two champions.

Geld-Prince. Lord of Gluttony. Enough. Your squabbles avail the Dark Prince not. Make for the howling lands, where the glimmering spear mirrors past and future. There will the banquet be laid out.

[TheArborealWalrus]

17 hours ago, Vurtias said:

Do Hellstriders curently have much of a place in our lists?

In my experience the clawstriders are extremely swingy. They either rip through or bounce off completely. They aren't very defined in their role.  The scourgestriders are a lot more consistent. Better at holding things and ripping up screens.  Overall in an awkward place. The speed has saved more than one battle for me though.

On a seprate note, the twins are pretty. I'm more of a mortals guy, but they're cool. I of course, will hope for more human boosts, but I look forward to seeing what they do with the book.

Edited April 20, 2021 by TheArborealWalrus

[Jaskier]

I recently committed to a "three-headed-titan" list for Slaanesh based around the combo of Archaon, Be'lakor and Glutos. 

Now GW reveals what are now my two favourite models they've ever done, and tells us they're coming in the next Broken Realms book. 

My poor, poor wallet. Oh well. Pleasure has a price, after all. 

[Yoid]

Im really happy with the twins. They present many aspects of the original Daemons i designed for Black Library two years ago, the same happened to the mortals they released and the mortals i created (speaking strictly of aesthetics).

Last time I talked about the KoS model I pointed that the design of the old FW model was more of my taste, and that i was somewhat dissapointed (still admiting is an amazing model). These twins seems more like the FW model and are totally spot on for me at a design level. Their clothes are way more revealing, almost nude, and the multiple chests are back too (akin to fiends, i really like that).

My only criticism, i don't like the way they float on their clothes, would have liked them more standing or with the tip of the feet glued to the base or something. Not sure if that kind of modification can be done without compromising the balance of the current model.

I bet these two would be bigger KoS, i mean akin to Exalted Keeper of Secrets. Not sure about them taking out Gluttos or the regular KoS tho, i think every behemoth is like a different class. Glutos is a tank, better anchor for summoning and durability, his aura is good for protecting your units. Dexcessa seems like the heavy hitter DPS. Current KoS is a support piece that allow you to make the others fight twice, and if this ability remain unique, you still want her to make Dexcessa fight twice. Synessa is probably gonna be a support focused on long range and buffing your troops, but not a tank like Gluttos. Now i want to do an army with 4 Greater Daemons using the twins.

We will probably receive a sub-faction or battalion aimed to deploy both twins together, it may be just for fluff or actually good. I think points will be high again, the twins were probably design alongside the rest of our battletome. It will take more time for GW to actually fix Slaanesh points. Maybe we are lucky and they are pointed more aggresively like Glutos and Slickblades, we will see.

About the gender of the twins. As a non-binary person in real life (actually gender-fluid person, that mean i change genders depending on mood) one of the things i really like about Slaanesh is that i feel represented in a fantasy army. Im sure you can simply say that your Dexcessa is a boy, or that your twins are actually original characters represented by those models and make them whathever you like. A big thing in warhammer is to personalize your army to make your own fluff. My army is themed around me and my girlfriend, so i want to make one of the twins be me and the other be her. Is the same i want to do with Syll'Esske, i plan to paint Esske as me and Syll as her, then use the model as the leader of a warband in a Mordheim-like campaign with my friends.

[Enoby]

I'm really looking forward to the narrative implication these two have - if they're on the level of gods (or god-like when together), you have to wonder how Excellis will survive. Maybe another god will have to intervene - though I hope we don't get chumped in our first rodeo! 

 

As an aside, saw this image at just the right time!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Whoever is in charge of names at GW has been having fun with the newborn twins.

Dexcessa has the components of "dexter", which means right or right hand in Latin, but is also where we get the word "dextrous" from in English, and "excess".

Synessa is close to "sinister", which of course has an English meaning we are all familiar with, but it also means left/left hand in Latin. The prefix "syn-" also means "jointly", but I suspect it's just there because it spelling that way looks more fantasy.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[LeonBox]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Whoever is in charge of names at GW has been having fun with the newborn twins.

Dexcessa has the components of "dexter", which means right or right hand in Latin, but is also where we get the word "dextrous" from in English, and "excess".

Synessa is close to "sinister", which of course has an English meaning we are all familiar with, but it also means left/left hand in Latin. The prefix "syn-" also means "jointly", but I suspect it's just there because it spelling that way looks more fantasy.

Great catch! Left-handedness has long been associated with the devil and witchcraft too, right? I'm sure it's no coincidence that Synessa is the one with powerful spellcasting capabilties. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

4 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

Great catch! Left-handedness has long been associated with the devil and witchcraft too, right? I'm sure it's no coincidence that Synessa is the one with powerful spellcasting capabilties. 

Yes! The thematic match between Dexcessa as a skillful, elegant fighter and "dexterity" works out quite nicely as well. I like that the two names are doing double duty by being descriptive of the characters and setting them up as the left and right hand of Slaansh at the same time.

[Yoid]

48 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

Great catch! Left-handedness has long been associated with the devil and witchcraft too, right? I'm sure it's no coincidence that Synessa is the one with powerful spellcasting capabilties. 

Also Dexcessa seems right-handed and Synessa seems left-handed considering the main weapon is the scepter. Dex probably relate to being dextrous in combat, while Syn may relate to being sinister or being sinful, as she knows/encourages your sins, being the corruptor/manipulative of the twins.

I wonder, if each one got a wide buff/aura (or enemy debuff aura), maybe that explain or justify the points of certain units. Like imagine that one gives a buff aura of +1 attack, then you are looking at Painbringers with 3 attacks and Twinsouls with 4 attacks, maybe even Blissbarb Archers with 3 shoots. If something like that was planned since the beginning, then our point cost start making more sense.

I wonder what will be the point cost, they probably price the twins not too high to be able to play with both at the same time, but they got to be high enough to justify their god-like state. 300/600 or maybe 400/800. Knowing that Slaanesh got no cheap battlelines (unless you go outside the tome) they cannot be like 500 or 600 each, or you will have no army. The current KoS is already 340, it would be weird for these direct spawns of Slaanesh to be less points (and be less powerful). Also named characters, so no artefacts or traits (maybe special rules if they are general)

Im not sure if our spell lore is good enough to justify a super-caster, maybe we get some extra additional spells, like a spell-lore only for Exalted Greater Daemons or 3 extra spells for the Greater Daemons Lore. And then thinking of Synessa, she will have bonus to casting and a good base spell I assume, but i wonder if she end being a triple caster, or having that weird rule of knowing all the spells in Slaanesh spell lores (wich would make a lot of sense for her). Dexcessa spell will probably be a self-buff (or enemy debuff that indirectly buff you). One cool rule for any of them would be to increase Euphoric Killers to a 5+ for friendly Hedonites.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Yoid

[Lucentia]

The new models are stunning, though I can't help but be mildly disappointed that the chosen form of the Newborn is kinda similar to the look of the KoS, I was hoping for something a little more, I don't know, protean, maybe?

I love the look of the peacock wings, and the head sculpts are great.  Feels like the combat one could do with some more weapons in all those hands, but they still both look sweet.

[Enoby]

I'm really excited to see these guys' rules. I know, I know, hype is the first step to disappointment. But if any Slaanesh character screams "buff piece", it's these two. 

I would love for them to be mainly support pieces. Even if Dex is mostly a beatstick, how great would it be if they had an automatic bubble of 5+ EK? I think we would go from "decent but overcosted" to "5-0 tournament competitor" if we had a big free buff to offense, especially something crazy like +1 damage. 

Syn on the other hand I can see being a command/battleshock buffer. This could range from the boring "18" immunity to battleshock" to "Command Ability: use this command ability at the start of your hero phase, all command abilities on friendly Hedonite heroes are free the first time you use them until your next hero phase" (better worded than that). Personally I hope they have 3 or 4 casts, the greater daemon keyword, a bonus to cast (esp a bonus that can involve doing damage to friendlies like a willing sacrifice), and a cool warscroll spell that opens up combo possibilities. 

I want these guys to feel like the child of an actual Chaos God - absolutely insane, but priced for it. At the same time, it would be cool to take two of them so if they're 500pts+ that's probably not realistically possible. 

That said, a battalion with them both would be awesome, especially if it involved a wide selection of mortal units. 

What I really hope we don't get, but am a little worried about considering some of our other rules, is a 300pt beatstick equivalent to a KoS and a 280pt caster equivalent to Glutos's casting but with no tanking coupled with boring warscrolls.  

[Sorrow]

1 hour ago, Lucentia said:

The new models are stunning, though I can't help but be mildly disappointed that the chosen form of the Newborn is kinda similar to the look of the KoS, I was hoping for something a little more, I don't know, protean, maybe?

I love the look of the peacock wings, and the head sculpts are great.  Feels like the combat one could do with some more weapons in all those hands, but they still both look sweet.

The models are beautiful, but I agree that their forms are at core a variation of KoS. I was hoping for the Newborn to be a unique creation on its own.

 

[Sorrow]

16 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I want these guys to feel like the child of an actual Chaos God - absolutely insane, but priced for it. At the same time, it would be cool to take two of them so if they're 500pts+ that's probably not realistically possible.

This is my fear, since we all thought that the Newborn was going to be a single model, now it is two.

They are actual children of Slaanesh, they should be in terms of power comparable to playable deities of AoS.

But if they are brought up to power and cost (500pts+ each) of playable deities, then that means that the rest of your army is going to be very, very small.

[Twisted Firaun]

4 hours ago, LeonBox said:

Great catch! Left-handedness has long been associated with the devil and witchcraft too, right? I'm sure it's no coincidence that Synessa is the one with powerful spellcasting capabilties. 

No wonder my kindergarten teacher didn't like me.

[Yoid]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

I'm really excited to see these guys' rules. I know, I know, hype is the first step to disappointment. But if any Slaanesh character screams "buff piece", it's these two. 

I would love for them to be mainly support pieces. Even if Dex is mostly a beatstick, how great would it be if they had an automatic bubble of 5+ EK? I think we would go from "decent but overcosted" to "5-0 tournament competitor" if we had a big free buff to offense, especially something crazy like +1 damage. 

Syn on the other hand I can see being a command/battleshock buffer. This could range from the boring "18" immunity to battleshock" to "Command Ability: use this command ability at the start of your hero phase, all command abilities on friendly Hedonite heroes are free the first time you use them until your next hero phase" (better worded than that). Personally I hope they have 3 or 4 casts, the greater daemon keyword, a bonus to cast (esp a bonus that can involve doing damage to friendlies like a willing sacrifice), and a cool warscroll spell that opens up combo possibilities. 

I want these guys to feel like the child of an actual Chaos God - absolutely insane, but priced for it. At the same time, it would be cool to take two of them so if they're 500pts+ that's probably not realistically possible. 

That said, a battalion with them both would be awesome, especially if it involved a wide selection of mortal units. 

What I really hope we don't get, but am a little worried about considering some of our other rules, is a 300pt beatstick equivalent to a KoS and a 280pt caster equivalent to Glutos's casting but with no tanking coupled with boring warscrolls.  

I think they will be around 300/400 pts so when you take both you pay 600/800 and compare to other God level miniatures. I also think Dexcessa is gonna be basically a 300pts beatstick, but really really beatstick (unless regular KoS that don't really hit that hard on average). Not having big weapons may mean a big number of weaker attacks, wich translate into being less swingy. Also perfect objective for the KoS CA. You cannot take two Dexcessa but you can make her fight twice. For Synessa I bet she will be an offensive buff support to contrast with Glutos defensive buff nature. Anyway if Synessa can regularly cast Pavane of Slaanesh and Hysterical Frenzy (or both) or have a damage dealing base spell, she may be a good DPS too. The description point more toward an enemy debuff/manipulation base spell, but that may be a CA or passive ability.

[Yziel]

What if the cost a lot (like 500) but have a slight discount if you take both?

[Yoid]

4 minutes ago, Yziel said:

What if the cost a lot (like 500) but have a slight discount if you take both?

That is too dangerous, probably a big design mistake, simply because you make them unfair, you risk making them overcosted when taken alone or undercosted when taken together, and is the same reason other discounts like the Daemonettes one are gone, because pointing in that way cannot be balanced. I can see a sub-faction or battalion making them work together because then you loose other advantages or pay extra points.

GW may still do it anyway, they made other similar mistakes in the past.

[LeonBox]

I think a danger of these guys is that they further marginalise Keepers, who have already been relegated to the role of an extremely situational summon. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by LeonBox
Grammar

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

So I noticed a few things about the twins that I find super interesting. They're a mirror reflection of the elven twins (both tyrion/teclis and their younger counterparts) and the duality of morathi. One is a talented caster and leader, the other a powerful warrior killing machine. One looks elegant and regal (synessa even has butterfly like wings reminiscent of morathi-khaine's wings) the other flashy and monstrous (dexcessa and the shadowqueen embody this in a literal sense but dex's supposed violent tendencies reflects tyrions true nature as well) Not to mention their birth came about when morathi became to halves of a whole. Similarly to the bonereapers ******-eating grins being a mockery of stormcast's stoic masks, are the twins slaanesh's way of mocking the elves reverence of twins? Even in 40k the eldar have a reverence of twins so it's a consistent theme. Or maybe it's less mockery and more so slaanesh reflecting a common belief in the species most connected to them?

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

8 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

I think a further danger of these guys is that they further marginalise Keepers, who have already been relegated to the role of an extremely situational summon. 

I know comparing across books isn't the greatest way to gauge strength but comparing the keeper to basically any other 320-380pt monster and it's clear that the keeper is trash. It was okay when it could double tap itself but it's main strength was it's recyclability. Compare the keeper to the mountain spirit from lumineth, the spirit is slower by a significant margin but is waaaay harder to kill with a better save and -1 to hit (plus alarith ignore rend -1/-2), outdamages the keeper and has a way to fight always fight at full bracket and for fulfilling a similar condition gives a free command ability use. Meanwhile the keeper has a rarely triggered but strong mortal wounds rule in delicate precision, some weapon options of which only two are remotely useful and lets be real, does anyone ever use dark temptations? Like at all? Against another combat hero it will just get you killed and any hero that isn't built to fight was probably gonna die to the keeper anyways. Shalaxi's alternate ability is waaay cooler and more useful but shalaxi has absolutely embarrassing damage output for a self proclaimed "hero killer". Should I even mention that avalenor is 20pts more and almost outdamages a double tapping keeper? For 20pts less order players can get kroak, a hero that pays for himself in an average 5-6 free cp in 3 turns and that's not even including his casting. I get that the keeper has a summoning tax but could they at least remove the rules bloat on it to streamline it's cost?

[Yoid]

16 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

I think a further danger of these guys is that they further marginalise Keepers, who have already been relegated to the role of an extremely situational summon. 

If they got any version of the Keeper CA, then the regular KoS will be gone for good. That may be a marketing/selling move from GW, a really mean one. Forcing you to buy Dexcessa to have "The good KoS" but since is a named character you better buy the regular worst KoS too to be able to summon.

If they go the good way tho, KoS will retain her singular CA and even go down some points in the future.
 

18 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

So I noticed a few things about the twins that I find super interesting. They're a mirror reflection of the elven twins (both tyrion/teclis and their younger counterparts) and the duality of morathi. One is a talented caster and leader, the other a powerful warrior killing machine. One looks elegant and regal (synessa even has butterfly like wings reminiscent of morathi-khaine's wings) the other flashy and monstrous (dexcessa and the shadowqueen embody this in a literal sense but dex's supposed violent tendencies reflects tyrions true nature as well) Not to mention their birth came about when morathi became to halves of a whole. Similarly to the bonereapers ******-eating grins being a mockery of stormcast's stoic masks, are the twins slaanesh's way of mocking the elves reverence of twins? Even in 40k the eldar have a reverence of twins so it's a consistent theme. Or maybe it's less mockery and more so slaanesh reflecting a common belief in the species most connected to them?

I find Dexcessa headpiece/hornthorns very similar to Morathi Khaine too. It may be related. One is like the goddess of murder and the other is like the embodiment of the sin of murder. But this is definitely your usual case of "We try to destroy Slaanesh in such an excessive way and wich such excess of zeal we actually end empowering him with new tools"

Wondering about rules. Looking at how Fiends got some anti-magic and Infernal Enrapturess is a pure anti-magic model. I wonder if GW will dear to make Synessa a meta-shifting anti-spelldom. Something like "Whenever an enemy wizard succesfully cast a spell he takes a mortal wound." She may be an unbind-dom instead of an spell-dom. Cannot see any of the two saving us from shooting-meta tho.