AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[pnkdth]

10 minutes ago, Feii said:

Vince doesn't include warscrolls in his battletome design chart.  


It kinda baffles me that you start your comment with saying that you  donm't agree with LRL being more complicated to play then you TLDR it with "I like this army more" your taste is a subjective thing and more power to you if you enjoy playing something and dedicate yourself to mastering an army but at the same time it is not an argument for which army is more complicated to play.  Playing an easier to play army isn't a bad thing ffs, I don't understand why people keep taking it personally and try to be tough guys "My army is super hard to play tooo!!!" ffs 

That was in no way the core of my argument. It was an example of what could be great design and then I gave several examples of how the book create synergies and is tied together. The point is you do not need to have a series of special rules to create a deep army.

That's how sharing opinions work. You said your piece and I didn't agree with it (and you're posting this on a Hedonite forum so you should expect a reaction). To me, LRL does not seem like the hardest army to master or that HoS has a low learning curve. It has very little with being a tough guy and more to do with what's actually going on in the game. We can already tell that it isn't a straightforwards army and that simply going all in on DPs while avoiding removing units is a bad idea (but not always). + more besides (previous posts).

My point on personal preference was more towards if you see something in an army others do not, you run with it and don't look back. I still enjoy discussions about it and I assure you, it is all good. It would be hecking boring if it it all fit neatly into a pre-arranged box.

[Enoby]

Not my list, just one I heard about. It went 2/0/1 in a tournament (not sure on the wins, but the one loss was to Archaon Tzeentch.

The formoid crusher is interesting, but the focus is definitely on low drops and the seeker cavalcade. Certainly would be interesting to try

[pnkdth]

2 hours ago, Enoby said:

Not my list, just one I heard about. It went 2/0/1 in a tournament (not sure on the wins, but the one loss was to Archaon Tzeentch.

The formoid crusher is interesting, but the focus is definitely on low drops and the seeker cavalcade. Certainly would be interesting to try

Insanely fast, maxing out the battalion, Keeper hitting on 2+ (fane + cameo), Crusher as a disruption piece for castling up (all those MWs = DPs). Kind of like a Hedonite version of the IDK eel list. Cheers for sharing.

[Apinecone]

Got my game in against a cavalry based bonereapers army, played the better part of valour but no auxiliary objectives as we are both new and wanted to speed things up.  Ended up in a loss, but we made a mistake with some distances in round 4 that should have ended the game in the draw rather than a loss.  That and my rolls with my slickblades where very below average after turn 2.  My list again -

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host

Leaders
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- General
- Sinistrous Hand
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Artefact: Enrapturing Circlet
- Spell: Progeny of Damnation
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (400)
- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Dark Delusions
Viceleader, Herald of Slaanesh (130)
- Artefact: Cameo of the Dark Prince
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation

Battleline
11 x Blissbarb Archers (160)
11 x Blissbarb Archers (160)
5 x Hellstriders with Claw-spears (140)

Units
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
4 x The Dread Pageant (120)

Battalions
Seeker Cavalcade (140)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113
 

Things I think I will change the viceleader did ok as the extra locus really helped turn 2 but after that she could not get in place to keep helping.  The dread pageant did ok but again just too slow for this list, I feel they would complement mymidesh list (after a points cut for them).  I am undecided on glutos, he is relatively speedy from turn 2 on, running and re-rolling charges but I did miss the locus that a second keeper would bring.  So I am considering running this next time -

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host

Leaders
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- General
- Sinistrous Hand
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Artefact: Enrapturing Circlet
- Spell: Progeny of Damnation
Keeper of Secrets (340)
- Sinistrous Hand
- Artefact: Cameo of the Dark Prince
- Spell: Born of Damnation

Battleline
11 x Blissbarb Archers (160)
11 x Blissbarb Archers (160)
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)

Units
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)

Battalions
Seeker Cavalcade (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122
 

Though this is just a rough idea for now.

 

---

Edited March 28, 2021 by Apinecone

[Silphid]

I am currently working on hedonites models and with the upcoming release of Be’lakor, am considering a mixed force of chaos, considering I feel the hedonites list needs a good point adjustment to feel effective. So in the meantime I want to use these nice new models alongside other chaos modes I have.

I would like to use amy slaanesh mortals alongside a maggotkin batallion. Can this be done? Do I need to run this as S2D with nurgle and slaanesh? Are you allowed to use batallions from other books within another battletome as I suggest?

[TheArborealWalrus]

Alright, so I've played 6 games based around the idea of it being a competition between 15 chaos warriors and 10 mymadesh painbringers.

Spoiler

1st game vs a purposefully minimally synergized Khorne list with solid units. Hard fought win, but never was in doubt. (battle for the pass) Chaos warriors killed 10 blood warriors in the time it took painbringers to kill 10 blood warriors and 5 skullreapers. Both units lost 6 members. (painbringers rolled well)

2nd game vs a strange Nurgle list based around beasts of nurgle. Kind of stomped him. (starstrike)

3rd 4th and 5th were vs a synergized mortal khorne army led by an insensate rage thirster. The blender was in full effect. 3rd: hard fought loss. Very back and forth.  The blood thirster singlehandedly cleared half the board (the paibringer half). The chaos warriors were wiped by by waves of wrathmongers and skullreapers. Lost by 2 victory points turn 5 (battle for the pass)

4th: Hard fought victory. Victory became obvious come turn 3. Switched to lurid haze list that functioned differently this game. went back and forth many times, but opponent couldn't catch up on points. Summoning and locus saved my bacon from a skullreaper unit and in grabbing an objective.  Painbringers took their objective but lost it to a lucky set of rolls from a skullreaper unit. Chaos warriors were wiped out instantly by insensate thirster. (scorched earth)

5th: Hard fought minor loss. Not enough objectives to split the enemy. Opposing blender held against the cavalry wave and the skullreapers chewed through both contestants.  Chaos warriors survived better because of mortal wound resistance and more wounds. Held my own objective but failed to take theirs. Both armies were severely depleted but I had lost more points. This is where I learned the flaw of trying for depravity points (Total commitment)

6th battle vs a new khorne opponent. Hard fought but decisive loss. They took a tyrants + gore pilgrims list with Skarbrand.  Had the faction that makes all thirsters even better too. [Yes, basically the net list] Wasn't any objectives to split my opponent on which is always a bad start with our cavalry. Chaos warriors held the right flank for a while but couldn't finish the 3+ armor save insensate thirster. Painbringers and lord held the center against blood warriors and a second thirster (killed theirs) but were removed by slaughterpriest mortal wounds. Left had skarbrand on it and was abandoned in the hope to kill the first assault before he got there. We didn't. Between skarbrand and the insensate's explosions [plus not counting as having lost any wounds *sad face*] lost half the army to excessive mortal wound damage. Killed all 3 thirsters and the blood warriors but I had 4 painbringers left. Was tabled by the end of turn 3. (Knife to the heart)

As reference, this was the core of the list with 660pts of swapping around with my limited resources.

Spoiler

Host: Invaders

Lord of pain - General, artifact: rod of misrule, trait: glory hog

10 painbringers

2x5 twinsouls

15 chaos warriors

2x5 hellstriders

5 slickblade seekers

I used all of these at one time or another in the list.      5 scourgestriders, 1 keeper of secrets, 1 shardspeaker, 10 blissbarb archers, 1 darkoath warqueen, 20/40 marauders, aspiring  ... hero? champion? whatever the mini hero is, and a contorted epitome. I changed up the list when I used the marauders. Went lurid haze and replaced the lord of pain with the keeper. It should be noted that my rolls were often not stellar the entire time. 

These are my conclusions from the contest:

Spoiler

 

1: between the two units, in a vacuum, I prefer the painbringers. A 6 always being good, for both hit and wound, make them more fun to play. There is also no magic number for their re-roll, and synergies work on them. 

2: Both units' success relies heavily on dice rolls. Yours for the painbringers, the opponent's on the chaos warriors.

3:  ...    ...    It feels dirty to say, because I like both units, but neither felt very useful overall. The only times they felt useful was when the opponent didn't have high burst damage. When that happened, the painbringers performed better because  of their superior attacks. Admittedly, vs a insensate rage bloodthirster, neither performed well, being annihilated in one attack sequence. It hurts every time I spend 300pts on 1 unit of 2 wound models too. (My opponent assures me that given what they do, plus summoning, they're worth their points though. I don't agree. *shrug*)   

 

As for the rest of the army: 

Spoiler

1: Hellstriders are pretty good. Even at 140pts they felt okay. Not great, but not bad. The whip ones weren't bad either. Harder to find targets for though.  

2: Slickblades were very swingy for me. Admittedly, they weren't fighting their best match ups, but they felt not too useful if I didn't roll enough 6s to wound. The 5+ save and low bravery don't help them out. They feel a little like worse tzangor enlightened. Have more wounds though. Still a good unit, but not a unit wiper.

3: Shardpeaker didn't feel helpful outside of protracted combats. A hard sell when I was struggling to survive one combat phase. (also got popped by the mortal wound bomb of the insensate thirster early on both games I used her)

4: Keeper seems swingy (an excellent target for the lurid haze artifact though). When I used her, I swung well, but I could see the opposite very easily happening.

5: Good lord the locus is so very good if you use it right. In some way responsible for 2 out of 3 wins. Stopped an opposing hammer and let a large chaff unit get picked apart. Also stopped blood warriors' ability from going off.

6: Twinsouls are a solid unit. Not too resilient, but not bad. A good attack profile and solid special rules. You have to pick their targets though. They'll bounce off of the wrong one  and butcher the right one. Hurt spending the points on them, but always useful in the game.

7: The -1 rend being neutralized by the battalion in the 3rd - 5th games didn't do the marauders or warqueen any favors. With the rend I feel like they're pretty good. Also thematically fit how I picture a slaanesh army working. Lots of shirtless people. The masses of revelers. I don't have any problem with daemonettes (beyond it being hard to snakify them) but I see more humans and less daemons. Maybe a horde of each?

8: The contorted epitome is fantastic. (the twins on the mirror) Two rerolling casts, reasonably fast and good potential damage and survivability with it's abilities. Will try to bring it more often. 210 isn't bad for her either. a little high but worth it.

9: It usually felt like I was in need of like 100- 150 more points to get all of what I wanted. Everyone has talked about the points problems though. (If they drop the painbringers to 120-130pts, I'd totally center my list around them) 

Conclusion: I need to fight something other than khorne. Between the battalion abilities and insensate rage thirster wrecking everything this wasn't a wholey fair testing. My impressions from these however are that I'd be better off using something else as battleline/shields/chaff. Nothing seems to survive the higher tier armies' damage anyways so I might as well stick with something that serves another purpose. I think I might change up the base list. We'll see.

Thanks for reading my extensive thoughts, and I hope you have a good week.

Edited March 29, 2021 by TheArborealWalrus

[AngryPanda]

30 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Alright, so I've played 6 games based around the idea of it being a competition between 15 chaos warriors and 10 mymadesh painbringers.

  Hide contents

1st game vs a purposefully minimally synergized Khorne list with solid units. Hard fought win, but never was in doubt. (battle for the pass) Chaos warriors killed 10 blood warriors in the time it took painbringers to kill 10 blood warriors and 5 skullreapers. Both units lost 6 members. (painbringers rolled well)

2nd game vs a strange Nurgle list based around beasts of nurgle. Kind of stomped him. (starstrike)

3rd 4th and 5th were vs a synergized mortal khorne army led by an insensate rage thirster. The blender was in full effect. 3rd: hard fought loss. Very back and forth.  The blood thirster singlehandedly cleared half the board (the paibringer half). The chaos warriors were wiped by by waves of wrathmongers and skullreapers. Lost by 2 victory points turn 5 (battle for the pass)

4th: Hard fought victory. Victory became obvious come turn 3. Switched to lurid haze list that functioned differently this game. went back and forth many times, but opponent couldn't catch up on points. Summoning and locus saved my bacon from a skullreaper unit and in grabbing an objective.  Painbringers took their objective but lost it to a lucky set of rolls from a skullreaper unit. Chaos warriors were wiped out instantly by insensate thirster. (scorched earth)

5th: Hard fought minor loss. Not enough objectives to split the enemy. Opposing blender held against the cavalry wave and the skullreapers chewed through both contestants.  Chaos warriors survived better because of mortal wound resistance and more wounds. Held my own objective but failed to take theirs. Both armies were severely depleted but I had lost more points. This is where I learned the flaw of trying for depravity points (Total commitment)

6th battle vs a new khorne opponent. Hard fought but decisive loss. They took a tyrants + gore pilgrims list with Skarbrand.  Had the faction that makes all thirsters even better too. [Yes, basically the net list] Wasn't any objectives to split my opponent on which is always a bad start with our cavalry. Chaos warriors held the right flank for a while but couldn't finish the 3+ armor save insensate thirster. Painbringers and lord held the center against blood warriors and a second thirster (killed theirs) but were removed by slaughterpriest mortal wounds. Left had skarbrand on it and was abandoned in the hope to kill the first assault before he got there. We didn't. Between skarbrand and the insensate's explosions [plus not counting as having lost any wounds *sad face*] lost half the army to excessive mortal wound damage. Killed all 3 thirsters and the blood warriors but I had 4 painbringers left. Was tabled by the end of turn 3. (Knife to the heart)

As reference, this was the core of the list with 660pts of swapping around with my limited resources.

  Reveal hidden contents

Host: Invaders

Lord of pain - General, artifact: rod of misrule, trait: glory hog

10 painbringers

2x5 twinsouls

15 chaos warriors

2x5 hellstriders

5 slickblade seekers

I used all of these at one time or another in the list.      5 scourgestriders, 1 keeper of secrets, 1 shardspeaker, 10 blissbarb archers, 1 darkoath warqueen, 20/40 marauders, aspiring  ... hero? champion? whatever the mini hero is, and a contorted epitome. I changed up the list when I used the marauders. Went lurid haze and replaced the lord of pain with the keeper. It should be noted that my rolls were often not stellar the entire time. 

These are my conclusions from the contest:

  Hide contents

 

1: between the two units, in a vacuum, I prefer the painbringers. A 6 always being good, for both hit and wound, make them more fun to play. There is also no magic number for their re-roll, and synergies work on them. 

2: Both units' success relies heavily on dice rolls. Yours for the painbringers, the opponent's on the chaos warriors.

3:  ...    ...    It feels dirty to say, because I like both units, but neither felt very useful overall. The only times they felt useful was when the opponent didn't have high burst damage. When that happened, the painbringers performed better because  of their superior attacks. Admittedly, vs a insensate rage bloodthirster, neither performed well, being annihilated in one attack sequence. It hurts every time I spend 300pts on 1 unit of 2 wound models too. (My opponent assures me that given what they do, plus summoning, they're worth their points though. I don't agree. *shrug*)   

 

As for the rest of the army: 

  Hide contents

1: Hellstriders are pretty good. Even at 140pts they felt okay. Not great, but not bad. The whip ones weren't bad either. Harder to find targets for though.  

2: Slickblades were very swingy for me. Admittedly, they weren't fighting their best match ups, but they felt not too useful if I didn't roll enough 6s to wound. The 5+ save and low bravery don't help them out. They feel a little like worse tzangor enlightened. Have more wounds though. Still a good unit, but not a unit wiper.

3: Shardpeaker didn't feel helpful outside of protracted combats. A hard sell when I was struggling to survive one combat phase. (also got popped by the mortal wound bomb of the insensate thirster early on both games I used her)

4: Keeper seems swingy (an excellent target for the lurid haze artifact though). When I used her, I swung well, but I could see the opposite very easily happening.

5: Good lord the locus is so very good if you use it right. In some way responsible for 2 out of 3 wins. Stopped an opposing hammer and let a large chaff unit get picked apart. Also stopped blood warriors' ability from going off.

6: Twinsouls are a solid unit. Not too resilient, but not bad. A good attack profile and solid special rules. You have to pick their targets though. They'll bounce off of the wrong one  and butcher the right one. Hurt spending the points on them, but always useful in the game.

7: The -1 rend being neutralized by the battalion in the 3rd - 5th games didn't do the marauders or warqueen any favors. With the rend I feel like they're pretty good. Also thematically fit how I picture a slaanesh army working. Lots of shirtless people. The masses of revelers. I don't have any problem with daemonettes (beyond it being hard to snakify them) but I see more humans and less daemons. Maybe a horde of each?

8: The contorted epitome is fantastic. (the twins on the mirror) Two rerolling casts, reasonably fast and good potential damage and survivability with it's abilities. Will try to bring it more often. 210 isn't bad for her either. a little high but worth it.

9: It usually felt like I was in need of like 100- 150 more points to get all of what I wanted. Everyone has talked about the points problems though. (If they drop the painbringers to 120-130pts, I'd totally center my list around them) 

Conclusion: I need to fight something other than khorne. Between the battalion abilities and insensate rage thirster wrecking everything this wasn't a wholey fair testing. My impressions from these however are that I'd be better off using something else as battleline/shields/chaff. Nothing seems to survive the higher tier armies' damage anyways so I might as well stick with something that serves another purpose. I think I might change up the base list. We'll see.

Thanks for reading my extensive thoughts, and I hope you have a good week.

Nice write up, I like the analysis; my experiences have pretty much been the same when it came to using Painbringers. With support, they’re a nice anvil that can swing back and do decent damage. However, a 150 pt price tag is too much; 120 pts would make them far more attractive.

The shardspeaker has the potential to be great, but is just too unreliable and easy to kill (especially against mortal wounds and shooting) for her point cost. That, and the mortal spells are pretty weak. Pretty much all the foot slogging mortals are overpriced, and if they were brought down in points, list building will be a lot more flexible and balanced.  
 

I really like the idea of using a Contorted Epitome, but the point costs are just so high. If they were to bring down the points for mortals, I would try to include one in a list to dispel enemy casters, or to cast from the far better daemon spells. I also feel that if I am to take Painbringers, they’re better paired with a Lord of Pain to get all reroll hits at the cost of a command point, and not from a spell which can be denied; especially in a Lurid Haze list where CP are very abundant. 
 

I haven’t had the chance, but it seems like it will be fun trying a few matchups against other melee centric armies such as OBR, stormcasts, Orruks, or Ogors. I want to see how the Painbringers with support (Lord of Pain and an emerald swarm) do against a wall of mortek guard. 

[LeonBox]

Quick question on Lurid Haze: do you still get the other benefits of being an Invaders Host (3 generals, DPs generated if in enemy territory) or do the Lurid Haze traits and abilities completely replace this? 

[Lucentia]

Lurid Haze is in addition to the normal Invaders stuff, just with a forced Command Trait and Artefact.

[Enoby]

11 hours ago, Silphid said:

 

I am currently working on hedonites models and with the upcoming release of Be’lakor, am considering a mixed force of chaos, considering I feel the hedonites list needs a good point adjustment to feel effective. So in the meantime I want to use these nice new models alongside other chaos modes I have.

I would like to use amy slaanesh mortals alongside a maggotkin batallion. Can this be done? Do I need to run this as S2D with nurgle and slaanesh? Are you allowed to use batallions from other books within another battletome as I suggest?

I believe Nurgle can ally in Slaanesh and Slaves to Darkness, and vice versa; battalions count against ally points limits if they're an ally keyword so you can take them, but it's tight. There are a few ways to go about it:

- Use maggotkin as an army, and ally in 400pts of Slaanesh

- Use Slaanesh and ally in 400pts of maggotkin

- Use Slaves to Darkness and ally in Slaansesh and Maggotkin 

- Use Slaves to Darkness, using Slaanesh models as proxies and ally in Nurgle

- Use Grand alliance chaos and take what you want

 

[Feii]

21 hours ago, Enoby said:

Not my list, just one I heard about. It went 2/0/1 in a tournament (not sure on the wins, but the one loss was to Archaon Tzeentch.

The formoid crusher is interesting, but the focus is definitely on low drops and the seeker cavalcade. Certainly would be interesting to try

LMAO 2.9 NPE fiesta. + that crusher/or censer bearers for just hurting your army...... 


So this is the only playable archetype you have. A rule loophole for tying down enemies making them not being able to do anything and then hurting your own troops to rely on mid-late game summoning to win the game. Amazing battletome design. 

[Enoby]

Just finished my Slaangors - the Metamorphised, Children of the Forest

Now to hope on better warscrolls

[EchoHavoc]

@Enoby What is the most competitive/viable/all comers Slaanesh list you have found? I have been toying around loads with lists and cant come up with something competitive while being an all comers list.

 

 

I do think overall the book is actually quite well balanced. I have played some games (around 10-12 on TTS nothing in person unfortunately due to lockdown) with the new book and find it okay. I think we are still paying for the sins of the first book and GW defiantly wanted to keep our summoning in check and have the book be less focused on heroes.  But we are by no means in a terrible, terrible place. At least that's my opinion anyway. I do also think this book rewards good players as there is a more nuanced approach to it rather than just running head first into an opponent and trying to steam role the game with insane summoning. Having said all that, we are going to suffer massively against some armies  and I do think we need a points adjustment to make us properly competitive again.

[AngryPanda]

2 hours ago, Enoby said:

Just finished my Slaangors - the Metamorphised, Children of the Forest

Now to hope on better warscrolls

Those look magnificent!I like the creative Windigo theme you’ve centered your army around; it looks terrifying yet oddly Slaanesh-beautiful to see approaching from the distance. If only the warscrolls were as scary as they look 😬

Speaking of Fiendbloods, what would you guys think if they were reworked to be -2 Rend and 2 Damage at their current point cost, mirroring the warscroll from Dread Pageant? If we do decide to petition, I’m curious to see if we can also include a desire to update the warscroll to these stats, which I feel would justify their points. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by AngryPanda

[Enoby]

30 minutes ago, EchoHavoc said:

@Enoby What is the most competitive/viable/all comers Slaanesh list you have found? I have been toying around loads with lists and cant come up with something competitive while being an all comers list

I will be perfectly honest and say I don't know for certain. I have a lot of ideas on what could be a good list, but I've onIy had the chance to try these twice because of lockdown; on the upside, I live with someone who plays, but on the downside they usually don't want to. 

In both of those games, I've won and one was without summoning to stop the game being a total wipe. Both games ended up with the enemy tabled (or one unit off) turn 3, but those armies were Gloomspite Gitz and Chaos Dwarves. Make of that what you will. The list I used both times wad literally just all of the new Slaanesh stuff (no battalions, and Slaangors were included). 

I was hoping to play against this player's much more competitive Fyreslayers with a better Slaanesh list but as of now, they are still very reluctant to play again. I almost want to lose and to lose badly to see where the cracks in the armour are. 

That said, from experience I tend to have a good track record with theory crafting when it comes to general effectiveness. Note, I have not played against new Kharadron or new Seraphon at all, but I have played against new Tzeentch last year using Slaves to Darkness and Lumineth (believe it or not, S2D did better). 

So with that said, for an all comers but still competitive list, I think it would look something like this:

A couple of things to note about this list:

- This is Lurid Haze, and the forced artifact goes on the shardspeaker. We do not need to teleport in this list, but we can after seeing the opponent's list. If anything should teleport, it should be the exalted seekers for their rr, or some chaos warriors to stealth cap an objective

- The contorted epitome is mostly to heal Glutos and to cast overwhelming acquiescence when possible

- The Chaos Warriors serve a purpose as well as cheap battleline, which is to screen. If you go first, just send them onto the objective and hold back (hence why there's three of them - maximum board coverage). They will die, but they will stop the stuff we like dying. 

- While a Lord of Pain can be used to make twin souls battleline, imo it's not worth it as we want three chaos warriors anyway

- The shardspeaker is one I'm a bit iffy on and I could see swapping her to a herald just for the better spell lore or some more screening, but I wanted two unamed heroes for the rod of misrule and I felt the potential +1 to wound was better, even if it never goes off for me. Take dark delusions on her if you local meta is low bravery. A LoP is also an option here to keep close to the twin souls

- Every hero benefits from look out sir, so keep that in mind for positioning 

- We have three hammers, being the two slickblades and the twin souls, and five ' anvils' in Glutos, also the twin souls, and the chaos warriors. The chaos warriors should crumble in all honesty, but their point is to be a roadblock that will stop any charging unit and also have a MW save. The twin souls will be using their MW save a lot more, backed up by +1 to save. The contorted epitome is a support piece, they are there to heal Glutos and also have a very good MW save. They will also probably cast the gemnids which are there for chip damage and the negative to hit

 - The main tactic behind this list is tanking and countercharging when necessarily, spending DP quickly to overwhelm and cause further disruption. It's a very grindy army so safe positioning and dragging things out as long as possible is key as we benefit from a late game. Getting in the way of charges with retreating chaos warriors (that 3" no go bubble will hold the line even if there's only one left), using Glutos's spell on far off units, and being a general nuisance is the idea. The list is light on bodies, but the Twin Soul's job is to take care of hordes

- Pray they don't take Archaon and Slayer of Kings Glutos away. Also consider eating weak enemies with Glutos's CA to keep him up. I think Glutos with look out sir, cover (provided by our fane), Lurid Haze and his 5++ is the tankiest 400pt character in the book and his support should keep him that way. An emergency keeper can be taken for healing and its CA, but usually 30 daemonettes will be better

- Twin Souls are good for getting rid of low save chaff, esp pink horrors and the like. Slickblades are better at the higher save heroes. If the opponent has something particularly scary you need to keep tied up, such as Skarbrand, consider charging a rubbish unit (e.g. chaos warriors) into them to take the hits, and pile in slickblades later when it's safe

- If you get charged, esp on first round, and your unit is left with one model standing, keep that model around at all costs (usually with inspiring presence). That single surviving model will not just gain a DP, but more importantly will hold an entire unit still if they take the double turn. Usually this unit will be your chaos warriors, and that one surviving warrior will keep up an entire unit for a turn

- Keep the slickblades back until they can make definitive action; they have the speed and the aim isn't usually for a first turn charge. On set up, they can be used to block teleport paths with their ginormous bases

- The antimagic in this list isn't stellar, but the we have five dispells, two of which are at a +1. In addition, our screens have a 5+ MW shrug, our tanky hammer can have a 5++, Glutos can have a 5++ shrug, and the Contorted Epitome has a 2+ MW save so don't be too worried about MWs

- Glutos's -1 to hit aura and +1 bravery aura aren't wholly within, so abuse this

- The Contorted Epitome is by no means a tank, but she does have locus of diversion to annoy the opponent more, and drag things out even further

Hope this helps

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, AngryPanda said:

Those look magnificent!I like the creative Windigo theme you’ve centered your army around; it looks terrifying yet oddly Slaanesh-beautiful to see approaching from the distance. If only the warscrolls were as scary as they look 😬

Speaking of Fiendbloods, what would you guys think if they were reworked to be -2 Rend and 2 Damage at their current point cost, mirroring the warscroll from Dread Pageant? If we do decide to petition, I’m curious to see if we can also include a desire to update the warscroll to these stats, which I feel would justify their points. 

Thanks - it would be nice to use more, they were fantastic to paint I'd happily run a Slaangor list for the models alone if they had a revisit and more ways to build them in

I think that would do well for them - to be honest, them having 3 attacks each at 4/3/-2/2 (or even -1/2 for the non-leaders) with the ability to get +1 attacks on a charge would give them a place. Also giving them a fluffy rule that gives surrounding Hedonites a bravery buff (because they worship them) would be a welcome addition.

Assuming they had 3 attacks base, 4/3/-1/2 and the leader had an additional weapon at 4/3/-2/2, they'd do an average damage of 7.56, compared to their current 3.78 against a 4+ save. This is still worse than twin souls and slickblades, but they're cheaper so that's fine - they'd fill the role of shock troop, and would give the LoP a good target to buff - on a charge with rr hits, their improved profile would do 13.85 damage against a 4+ save. 

[Sorrow]

@Enoby

Beautiful models as always.
 

@AngryPanda

I am continuing to play,  testing various lists.  Run a Lurid Haze list with Nobles of Excess against OBR player. I lost, but it was really close and the guy has won major tournaments across Europe, so I think that will some small changes, we could be top tier. 

Overall, I think that Hedonites are going to be a army that it takes skill and finesse to play properly. Personally,  this delights me.

In my humble opinion, the only change needed is on Slaangors, Myrmidesh and Symbaresh. Myrmidesh and Symbaresh need to come down in cost a bit and they will be perfect.

Slaangors need to be reworked though.

[TimeToWaste85]

4 hours ago, Enoby said:

I will be perfectly honest and say I don't know for certain. I have a lot of ideas on what could be a good list, but I've onIy had the chance to try these twice because of lockdown; on the upside, I live with someone who plays, but on the downside they usually don't want to. 

In both of those games, I've won and one was without summoning to stop the game being a total wipe. Both games ended up with the enemy tabled (or one unit off) turn 3, but those armies were Gloomspite Gitz and Chaos Dwarves. Make of that what you will. The list I used both times wad literally just all of the new Slaanesh stuff (no battalions, and Slaangors were included). 

I was hoping to play against this player's much more competitive Fyreslayers with a better Slaanesh list but as of now, they are still very reluctant to play again. I almost want to lose and to lose badly to see where the cracks in the armour are. 

That said, from experience I tend to have a good track record with theory crafting when it comes to general effectiveness. Note, I have not played against new Kharadron or new Seraphon at all, but I have played against new Tzeentch last year using Slaves to Darkness and Lumineth (believe it or not, S2D did better). 

So with that said, for an all comers but still competitive list, I think it would look something like this:

A couple of things to note about this list:

- This is Lurid Haze, and the forced artifact goes on the shardspeaker. We do not need to teleport in this list, but we can after seeing the opponent's list. If anything should teleport, it should be the exalted seekers for their rr, or some chaos warriors to stealth cap an objective

- The contorted epitome is mostly to heal Glutos and to cast overwhelming acquiescence when possible

- The Chaos Warriors serve a purpose as well as cheap battleline, which is to screen. If you go first, just send them onto the objective and hold back (hence why there's three of them - maximum board coverage). They will die, but they will stop the stuff we like dying. 

- While a Lord of Pain can be used to make twin souls battleline, imo it's not worth it as we want three chaos warriors anyway

- The shardspeaker is one I'm a bit iffy on and I could see swapping her to a herald just for the better spell lore or some more screening, but I wanted two unamed heroes for the rod of misrule and I felt the potential +1 to wound was better, even if it never goes off for me. Take dark delusions on her if you local meta is low bravery. A LoP is also an option here to keep close to the twin souls

- Every hero benefits from look out sir, so keep that in mind for positioning 

- We have three hammers, being the two slickblades and the twin souls, and five ' anvils' in Glutos, also the twin souls, and the chaos warriors. The chaos warriors should crumble in all honesty, but their point is to be a roadblock that will stop any charging unit and also have a MW save. The twin souls will be using their MW save a lot more, backed up by +1 to save. The contorted epitome is a support piece, they are there to heal Glutos and also have a very good MW save. They will also probably cast the gemnids which are there for chip damage and the negative to hit

 - The main tactic behind this list is tanking and countercharging when necessarily, spending DP quickly to overwhelm and cause further disruption. It's a very grindy army so safe positioning and dragging things out as long as possible is key as we benefit from a late game. Getting in the way of charges with retreating chaos warriors (that 3" no go bubble will hold the line even if there's only one left), using Glutos's spell on far off units, and being a general nuisance is the idea. The list is light on bodies, but the Twin Soul's job is to take care of hordes

- Pray they don't take Archaon and Slayer of Kings Glutos away. Also consider eating weak enemies with Glutos's CA to keep him up. I think Glutos with look out sir, cover (provided by our fane), Lurid Haze and his 5++ is the tankiest 400pt character in the book and his support should keep him that way. An emergency keeper can be taken for healing and its CA, but usually 30 daemonettes will be better

- Twin Souls are good for getting rid of low save chaff, esp pink horrors and the like. Slickblades are better at the higher save heroes. If the opponent has something particularly scary you need to keep tied up, such as Skarbrand, consider charging a rubbish unit (e.g. chaos warriors) into them to take the hits, and pile in slickblades later when it's safe

- If you get charged, esp on first round, and your unit is left with one model standing, keep that model around at all costs (usually with inspiring presence). That single surviving model will not just gain a DP, but more importantly will hold an entire unit still if they take the double turn. Usually this unit will be your chaos warriors, and that one surviving warrior will keep up an entire unit for a turn

- Keep the slickblades back until they can make definitive action; they have the speed and the aim isn't usually for a first turn charge. On set up, they can be used to block teleport paths with their ginormous bases

- The antimagic in this list isn't stellar, but the we have five dispells, two of which are at a +1. In addition, our screens have a 5+ MW shrug, our tanky hammer can have a 5++, Glutos can have a 5++ shrug, and the Contorted Epitome has a 2+ MW save so don't be too worried about MWs

- Glutos's -1 to hit aura and +1 bravery aura aren't wholly within, so abuse this

- The Contorted Epitome is by no means a tank, but she does have locus of diversion to annoy the opponent more, and drag things out even further

Hope this helps

If you swap the uncertain Shardspeaker to a Herald, you gain 20pts and can take an extra command point. Well worth it in a CP heavy book. 

[Enoby]

2 hours ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

If you swap the uncertain Shardspeaker to a Herald, you gain 20pts and can take an extra command point. Well worth it in a CP heavy book. 

Yeah, it was really a toss up between the herald and the shardspeaker. The herald is probably strictly better, with the better spell lore, and the cp, but it does prevent a triumph (if you use those rules) 

If taking the herald in this list, I'd probably suggest hysterical frenzy. Not super likely to go off, but a non-dispell heavy opponent will likely prioritise Glutos and the Epitome so you might get a cheeky cast off. 

[Enoby]

I was just sorting out my models and I noticed...

The blissbarbs are actually on 28mm bases - I thought it was 32mm, but they fit into that. They must be one of the first mainline 28mm bases

[dicebod]

19 hours ago, Sorrow said:

@Enoby

Beautiful models as always.
 

@AngryPanda

I am continuing to play,  testing various lists.  Run a Lurid Haze list with Nobles of Excess against OBR player. I lost, but it was really close and the guy has won major tournaments across Europe, so I think that will some small changes, we could be top tier. 

Overall, I think that Hedonites are going to be a army that it takes skill and finesse to play properly. Personally,  this delights me.

In my humble opinion, the only change needed is on Slaangors, Myrmidesh and Symbaresh. Myrmidesh and Symbaresh need to come down in cost a bit and they will be perfect.

Slaangors need to be reworked though.

@Sorrow - any chance we can see that Nobles of Excess list? I love the idea of using the elite foot infantry.  Did you get much out of the RRs to wound on the charge?

[Sorrow]

@dicebod

Not to play smart, I find the lists created by @Enoby to be really, really good. So I stole this list.

I have to say that our elite infantry, Twins and Pains, need to come down in cost.

Quote

Invaders (Lurid Haze - because why not)

150 Lord of Pain - General with Haze artefact and CT

200 Syll'Esske - General 

150 Lord of Pain or Shardspeaker (not general but still can't decide. Battle Rapture would be on Shardspeaker) with Rod of Misrule

200 5 Slickglaive Seekers 

200 5 Slickglaive Seekers 

340 10 Twinsouls 

170 5 Twinsouls

150 5 Painbringers 

150 5 painbringers 

140 Seeker Cavalcade 

140 Nobles of Excess

1990, 110 wounds

2CP 

 

 

[Sorrow]

@dicebod

That is some really beautiful army you have in your cover, could I bother you for a few up close images?

[AngryPanda]

Any verdicts for the new Lumanith stuff? I read the Goonhammer review and the warscrolls, and I’ve seen the points posted both on YT and online; it seems they’ve gotten some pretty good stuff.
 

The wind spirit and named character equivalent look scary, and have the potential to snipe support characters with consistency. The Kangaroos are much cheaper the our Blissbarb Seekers, and although they have a shorter ranged shot, their superior melee attacks and ability to be taken as battleline push them a far bit ahead. The lore seeker is cheap and going to be potent for objective grabbing (possibly an auto-include for competitive play), and the ballista is a bargain for its price. The only two units to come out of it a bit weak are the new sword masters and the banner bearer, but it isn’t too underwhelming. 

 

IMO, this Lumaneth release is definitely better then what we’ve received comparing point costs and rules. 

[dicebod]

19 minutes ago, Sorrow said:

@dicebod

That is some really beautiful army you have in your cover, could I bother you for a few up close images?

Thanks @Sorrow!  I started painting this army about 6 months ago with the StD start collecting box and have been steadily adding to it since then.  Here's a few shots.  Definitely looking forward to adding some of the new seekers and Myrmidesh!

You can see some pics of this army in action against @Athrawes and his incredible (even better in person!) Lumineth here in his batrep: https://www.reddit.com/r/ageofsigmar/comments/lu6l60/lumineth_vs_new_hedonites_battle_report/